Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump (2024) - News and Discussion!

JBC008 · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
Not gonna continue anything, but it was good meme material, so here you go.

.

Thank you for the entertainment. Please don't reply.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2024, Original Post Date: May 17, 2024 ---

I'm a failed artist, so best I got is rudimentary editing skills. Bucket's just a gag to gas up Psych House (It means a lot to me that you noticed it) but I'll revert it on Sunday.

If you have any meme idea, go ahead and request on thread or PM. I don't charge if it's funny to me.

Are these memes going to go on the internet? I could only imagine the ever growing fandom for Psych House if that starts. But that one you put there involving ItsSamu Unleashes their Hidden Technique, got the biggest laugh out of me today. It definitely made my day.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2024 ---

Nothing against ItsSamu, I thought they brought up a very solid post today and we can learn something from it.

Dongus · May 17, 2024

JBC008 said:
That will be a tall order considering we have seen a game similar to that already being Shogi.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2024, Original Post Date: May 17, 2024 ---

It would be interesting if Jump tried again, doing a board game sport. But if they want to they would have to follow what media has done more recently in this half decade to catch up. Case in point, remember “The Queens Gambit”? Although, they need to stay away from the drug and alcohol problems the main character had in that series, but it was popular.

I'm a huge fan of Nobuyuki Fukumoto's works, which usually involve mahjong or gambling and other sorts of games. He could make a manga about rock paper scissors (with cards!) and turn it into a massive mind game, where the characters abuse every single aspect of the game, the situation, and the people, to claw their way to victory. His style's the quintessential 'mind game' genre in manga for me... But he won't survive in Jump. What makes these things work are the slow burn, the back and forth, the anxiety, overthinking, overthinking the overthinking, diving into the antagonist's psychology and method of thought... Only Death Note managed to tell this sort of story on Jump with success, but that's an exception and not a rule.

And the reason is simple: To write intelligent characters, you have to be just as intelligent as them yourself. A mangaka who's an expert chess player and a great artist is gonna be a hard find. Though, a writer mangaka duo could do it too, but it's still gonna take a lot of brainpower to tell these kinds of stories. On a weekly schedule, and trying to keep the reader engaged every week when these things work best as slow burns? Really pushing the envelope.

pennycryman · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
Not gonna continue anything, but it was good meme material, so here you go.

.

Thank you for the entertainment. Please don't reply.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2024, Original Post Date: May 17, 2024 ---

I'm a failed artist, so best I got is rudimentary editing skills. Bucket's just a gag to gas up Psych House (It means a lot to me that you noticed it) but I'll revert it on Sunday.

If you have any meme idea, go ahead and request on thread or PM. I don't charge if it's funny to me.

ItsSamu unleashing the hidden technique was great, but what broke me was KrenKren going "We've won."

JBC008 · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
I'm a huge fan of Nobuyuki Fukumoto's works, which usually involve mahjong or gambling and other sorts of games. He could make a manga about rock paper scissors (with cards!) and turn it into a massive mind game, where the characters abuse every single aspect of the game, the situation, and the people, to claw their way to victory. His style's the quintessential 'mind game' genre in manga for me... But he won't survive in Jump. What makes these things work are the slow burn, the back and forth, the anxiety, overthinking, overthinking the overthinking, diving into the antagonist's psychology and method of thought... Only Death Note managed to tell this sort of story on Jump with success, but that's an exception and not a rule.

And the reason is simple: To write intelligent characters, you have to be just as intelligent as them yourself. A mangaka who's an expert chess player and a great artist is gonna be a hard find. Though, a writer mangaka duo could do it too, but it's still gonna take a lot of brainpower to tell these kinds of stories. On a weekly schedule, and trying to keep the reader engaged every week when these things work best as slow burns? Really pushing the envelope.

Boy there must have been a lot of overthinking with those series :3c

. Okay but in all seriousness it was an interesting thought there. But you do have a good point there when it comes to trying to find people who are intelligent and making it enjoyable. I think the problem is that you want that but never try to put down your audience. And the at is something that I felt Nisoisn did when those puzzles came into place. But you have a good point that it should be an artist writer duo where the art is focused on while the writer has to think and “overthink”, things to keep that engagement.

pennycryman · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
Though, a writer mangaka duo could do it too, but it's still gonna take a lot of brainpower to tell these kinds of stories. On a weekly schedule, and trying to keep the reader engaged every week when these things work best as slow burns? Really pushing the envelope.

Kind of reminds me of the Shokugeki team, where they had an actual chef give recipes and whatnot. Of course, the format was vastly different, and we saw what happened when that team took a more slow burn approach. Cipher was very close in doing that, problem is unlike Fukumoto works, the ciphers were almost impossible to understand, so there wasn't much wide appeal, despite the series being great imo. It's possible, but very hard, it might work if it was a drama thing like Queen's Gambit where chess is just the premise to the main plot. We've seen series in Jump try to do that, like P6 and Soul Catcher(S) having their very subjects being impossible to convey in the medium, so both turned to more drama elements to get readers to latch on and get ok runs.

JBC008 · May 17, 2024

pennycryman said:
Kind of reminds me of the Shokugeki team, where they had an actual chef give recipes and whatnot. Of course, the format was vastly different, and we saw what happened when that team took a more slow burn approach. Cipher was very close in doing that, problem is unlike Fukumoto works, the ciphers were almost impossible to understand, so there wasn't much wide appeal, despite the series being great imo. It's possible, but very hard, it might work if it was a drama thing like Queen's Gambit where chess is just the premise to the main plot. We've seen series in Jump try to do that, like P6 and Soul Catcher(S) having their very subjects being impossible to convey in the medium, so both turned to more drama elements to get readers to latch on and get ok runs.

I do think it is important to get these specialists when doing these series to make them engaging. You brought up a good point with Food Wars! But I think we should also remember other series that had experts like Hikaru no Go, Dr. STONE, and for Y. Matsui who has a historical expert for The Elusive Samurai. So I think having those experts have really started to pay dividends by getting that help.

Dongus · May 17, 2024

pennycryman said:
Kind of reminds me of the Shokugeki team, where they had an actual chef give recipes and whatnot. Of course, the format was vastly different, and we saw what happened when that team took a more slow burn approach. Cipher was very close in doing that, problem is unlike Fukumoto works, the ciphers were almost impossible to understand, so there wasn't much wide appeal, despite the series being great imo. It's possible, but very hard, it might work if it was a drama thing like Queen's Gambit where chess is just the premise to the main plot. We've seen series in Jump try to do that, like P6 and Soul Catcher(S) having their very subjects being impossible to convey in the medium, so both turned to more drama elements to get readers to latch on and get ok runs.

Shokugeki huh? That series went full speedrun into the bottom after the chef took a maternity leave and the writer had to work it out on his own. He ended up writing some weird things like guillotines and chainsaws to cut meat, and Cross Knives. Like wow, God Tongue, God Nose, makes sense in a cooking setting, good palate and sense, but what the hell was a Nen ability doing in this manga?

I guess another point is "know what you write". Else, people who know better than you will get on your case. Dear Anemone, sometimes I read comments and people go, "Arctic wolves aren't native to Galpagos Island!" and maybe that is a dealbreaker for them. Makes sense to me.

Cipher Academy, honestly, I skimmed through the puzzles because I took one look and decided, "I'm not solving this shit. Nope." Nisioisin was taking a big gamble, and sure he had a really whacky setting and cast to carry the puzzles, but if most readers were like me and sped through the puzzles because it wouldn't make sense to me anyway, then that'll be a huge blow to engagement.

JBC008 · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
Shokugeki huh? That series went full speedrun into the bottom after the chef took a maternity leave and the writer had to work it out on his own. He ended up writing some weird things like guillotines and chainsaws to cut meat, and Cross Knives. Like wow, God Tongue, God Nose, makes sense in a cooking setting, good palate and sense, but what the hell was a Nen ability doing in this manga?

I guess another point is "know what you write". Else, people who know better than you will get on your case. Dear Anemone, sometimes I read comments and people go, "Arctic wolves aren't native to Galpagos Island!" and maybe that is a dealbreaker for them. Makes sense to me.

Cipher Academy, honestly, I skimmed through the puzzles because I took one look and decided, "I'm not solving this shit. Nope." Nisioisin was taking a big gamble, and sure he had a really whacky setting and cast to carry the puzzles, but if most readers were like me and sped through the puzzles because it wouldn't make sense to me anyway, then that'll be a huge blow to engagement.

The chef was on maternity leave? Wow, didn’t know that.

I can understand the commentary regarding Dear Anemone. But what made that one so difficult aside from the lack of intriguing characters was that the disembodied narrator made the commentary as if I was reading a nature documentary for some reason.

And yeah with Cipher Academy, I thought the puzzles were supposed to be fun, but then I hit the wall. And it just made me want to watch a Professor Layton game more cause that was highly more fun and engaging than that.

pennycryman · May 17, 2024

I have some previous experience with ciphers, so while I never bothered with trying to solve them, I got some decent enjoyment out of the explanations anyways. Tbf, after Medaka Box and other Nisio works, I think I'm just immune to his Japanese language puzzle bs.

monstera11 · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
Not gonna continue anything, but it was good meme material, so here you go.

.

Thank you for the entertainment. Please don't reply.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2024, Original Post Date: May 17, 2024 ---

I'm a failed artist, so best I got is rudimentary editing skills. Bucket's just a gag to gas up Psych House (It means a lot to me that you noticed it) but I'll revert it on Sunday.

If you have any meme idea, go ahead and request on thread or PM. I don't charge if it's funny to me.

So Shark is Choso. RIP.

This is the most entertaining this thread has ever been. Thanks for the laugh

Kiaida · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
I'm a huge fan of Nobuyuki Fukumoto's works, which usually involve mahjong or gambling and other sorts of games. He could make a manga about rock paper scissors (with cards!) and turn it into a massive mind game, where the characters abuse every single aspect of the game, the situation, and the people, to claw their way to victory. His style's the quintessential 'mind game' genre in manga for me... But he won't survive in Jump. What makes these things work are the slow burn, the back and forth, the anxiety, overthinking, overthinking the overthinking, diving into the antagonist's psychology and method of thought... Only Death Note managed to tell this sort of story on Jump with success, but that's an exception and not a rule.

And the reason is simple: To write intelligent characters, you have to be just as intelligent as them yourself. A mangaka who's an expert chess player and a great artist is gonna be a hard find. Though, a writer mangaka duo could do it too, but it's still gonna take a lot of brainpower to tell these kinds of stories. On a weekly schedule, and trying to keep the reader engaged every week when these things work best as slow burns? Really pushing the envelope.

Kaiji first two parts would survive. Anything after that would get endless whining on Twitter and sites like that, so let's be glad Fukumoto will never touch this magazine and can just do his thing in peace.

JBC008 · May 17, 2024

Hey Shinuki, what are your thoughts on a chess based manga for Jump?

iker_03 · May 17, 2024

Shoseki Ranking Top 500 (May 16)
56. Kagurabachi #2
96. Akane-banashi #11
170. Nue's Exorcist #4
191. Undead Unluck #21
371. Cipher Academy #7

Friki · May 17, 2024

There were several weeks in a row where Nue's was at the bottom, nothing ever got so bad and at one point we didn't even talk about it anymore. This week being Kagurabachi there were some problems. Personally there are no Kagurabachi vs Nue's debates but more a fierceness on the part of some towards Kagurabachi.

The debate of 'Nue's cover or not' took place for several periods without it going too far just everyone gave their opinion. Once again it went too far.

You just have to realize that yes, many Forum users really like Kagurabachi, this is reflected in the weekly votes. Some people purposely throw picks so that they go far and that's a fact.

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2024, Original Post Date: May 17, 2024 ---

please let's just move on because this is just getting annoying.

Renvent · May 17, 2024

Dongus said:
Holy... crap. What the hell happened while I was asleep? A-Anyway, I'm throwing hands too.

Stivie may be unhinged whenever he enters the playing field but I have never ever, not even once, seen him starting an argument or instigating anything. Everytime he gives us a bad time, it was started by someone else. Part of the problem is one thing, but everyone jumped to SharkBait's defense and just says, "That's just how he is! Don't take the bait, idiot!" I honestly think that's wrong, and reeks of some high school clique energy. "B-But he started it!" is some childish argument but I mean... Why keep forgiving instigators and coming down on retaliators? Why blame the retaliator for fighting back and defend the instigator for being the way they are? It's like cutting grass, it's gone, but it grows back. It'll keep growing back. The only way to remove grass is to pull it out by the root. And I'm totally okay if no one wants to (I don't really care either way) but if things like this keep on happening, don't keep being annoyed at the grass that's growing, and remember that you're keeping the roots intact.

This is my two cents as well, but I'm very sure SharkBait's responsible for the neverending Nue vs Kagurabachi war. And this is going to be our flavor for another two or so years so... Enjoy it. Just remember that there weren't any Kagurabachi defenders during the early times before Volume 1, and both Shinuki and SharkBait took every opportunity to dunk on its fans. "They're so desperate to call out to fujos, fujos won't save the series!" "Shipping doesn't count into Oricon!" "Nue has organic growth from good word of mouth and KGB is just a meme and fad that has explosive hype but whittles away and dies within a month or two!" I didn't fight back through all of that and just waited... And even when things looked up for me, I never gloated. Gloating usually leads to bad karma, and I don't need that negative energy as a gambler.

Still, it's amusing for me, so please carry on. Guess I didn't need Enjoyer for an amusing day. Heh.

You have very low standards for Stivie not starting fights then or not remembering him starting fights for both Undead Unluck and Mission Yozakura Family. Stivie will start fights for even the most innocuous of comments. He also tends to be far more inflammatory than Sharkbait's.

Another part of my annoyance with the Nue vs KGB debate is that while Sharkbait is the clear instigator of the mudfight, the KGB tends to throw worse shit. For as much as Sharkbait throws his mud, he doesn't have posts like this:

Bulju said:
I love all these people implying KGB is a fraud because it got a bad ranking after consecutive color pages.
When Nue inevitably goes back to the bottom after the cover issue I'll be the first to dance on its grave.

which is far more antagonizing. I also find that the KGB side to be too sensitive to perceived attacks. I made two posts recently where I pointed out how both Nue and KGB were in danger. Guess, which manga's fans rushed in to defend it. I still haven't received any pushback from Nue fans on either of those posts.

It isn't just my posts either. Others have also pointed out how several other series get criticism on par or worse than KGB but those don't get the flame war going on. I remember someone posting how Nue was on the bottom for several weeks and didn't get any talks about survival. Except I then pointed out that it got people debating it's survival the very first page after its first bottom 5 ranking. Same was true for Kill Blue after its first bad ranking as well. But people speculating the same for KGB was apparently attacking it.

People post about Sharkbait being a continual troll because of his posts. But quite frankly, there have been worse posts than his directed towards tons of other series: Do Retry, Ice Head Gill, Shadow Eliminators, Nue and Kill Blue when they were just starting. All of which get passed by. I made more critical posts about GGG and its survival way before it became clear that it was going to fail. The difference is that there's less fans of those series so there is not much debate when someone makes those comments. Meanwhile KGB is relatively popular on this site so it has lots of fans which jump in to defend it.

JBC008 · May 17, 2024

So to change something positive. Knowing the LA One Piece series is going to be starting production soon, who does everyone want to see casted. I already gave my thoughts on 2 particular characters but wasn’t sure on the others. Also just fun for me personally, beyond season 2, I want John Cena as Franky and Doug Jones as Brooke. There is a YouTuber who has great insight on this named Randy Troy who gave good predictions, but we know that he can’t talk about them anymore due to being a writer for the show now and of course NDA’s. And I can respect that.

Demonspeed · May 17, 2024

Tavnaria said:
Well that's a messed up system then lmao. That's funny how it works, so you can't ever criticize any mods?

And everyone here knows whether you have any bias for anyone is true or not, it's clear as day....

TIL. What a website!

Global Moderator Notice:
Allow me to reply to this. Criticize people all you want, as long as you stay civil. Telling a Mod that he isn't doing his job correctly isn't being civil, it's blatant disrespect. As I said when I deleted your post, you can report him or any posts that you find inappropriate. You can even PM him.

If you want this power, then apply as a Mod yourself. But your behavior already tells me that you are probably not good enough. Plenty of people have been Mods there and lost their position for many reasons.

I'll lock the thread for a while.
~ Demonspeed"

--- Double Post Merged, May 17, 2024, Original Post Date: May 17, 2024 ---

Thread unlocked.

@Tavnaria I am reminding you again that you can discuss with people via PMs.

monstera11 · May 17, 2024

Any prediction if we are going to get veteran next batch?

Dongus · May 17, 2024

Hohhh, the Heian era technique really did a number on the thread till it got to this point. Ok...

Renvent said:
You have very low standards for Stivie not starting fights then or not remembering him starting fights for both Undead Unluck and Mission Yozakura Family. Stivie will start fights for even the most innocuous of comments. He also tends to be far more inflammatory than Sharkbait's.

Another part of my annoyance with the Nue vs KGB debate is that while Sharkbait is the clear instigator of the mudfight, the KGB tends to throw worse shit. For as much as Sharkbait throws his mud, he doesn't have posts like this:

which is far more antagonizing. I also find that the KGB side to be too sensitive to perceived attacks. I made two posts recently where I pointed out how both Nue and KGB were in danger. Guess, which manga's fans rushed in to defend it. I still haven't received any pushback from Nue fans on either of those posts.

It isn't just my posts either. Others have also pointed out how several other series get criticism on par or worse than KGB but those don't get the flame war going on. I remember someone posting how Nue was on the bottom for several weeks and didn't get any talks about survival. Except I then pointed out that it got people debating it's survival the very first page after its first bottom 5 ranking. Same was true for Kill Blue after its first bad ranking as well. But people speculating the same for KGB was apparently attacking it.

People post about Sharkbait being a continual troll because of his posts. But quite frankly, there have been worse posts than his directed towards tons of other series: Do Retry, Ice Head Gill, Shadow Eliminators, Nue and Kill Blue when they were just starting. All of which get passed by. I made more critical posts about GGG and its survival way before it became clear that it was going to fail. The difference is that there's less fans of those series so there is not much debate when someone makes those comments. Meanwhile KGB is relatively popular on this site so it has lots of fans which jump in to defend it.

At the risk of eating a ban, I'll have to say I can only speak for what I see. Sorry, but I'm not gonna remember anything I wasn't there to see. Maybe you had a rough history with the guy, seems to be the case, but you can't expect me to also be privy to it. I don't like Stivie, Stivie's not my friend. I'm just pointing out how it is at it is currently. Maybe Stivie got a hobby and only pokes his head around when he's annoyed. Still annoying, but still means he's not an issue until he has a reason to be. And I think after everything that's just been said, I'm hoping you can somewhat agree that his reason is valid. Not that he's right.

I... highly disagree about what you have to say about this Nue vs Kagurabachi mudfight. I have a lot I want to say, but...

Shinuki requested we don't push this any more than we have to. While I sometimes find him disagreeable on many subjects and aspects, I'm willing to respect his authority as a moderator and at least oblige on this. And, I hope you're willing to do the same as well.

The only place I want to put a footnote is here: "Another part of my annoyance with the Nue vs KGB debate is that while Sharkbait is the clear instigator of the mudfight, the KGB tends to throw worse shit."

This mentality of "but they do even worse shit" is the sort of mentality that causes these things to go on and on without an end. It's a mentality that only leads to two parties escalating their bad actions, and it will only keep going and going. It won't end.

I won't engage with this mentality. I can't tell you to. But I hope you won't as well.

SharkBait · May 17, 2024

monstera11 said:
Any prediction if we are going to get veteran next batch?

Now that Debby the Corsifa Hates Losing has completed a successful 9 volume run, hopefully the author comes back to jump with another sports series, Best Blue was incredible.

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