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Amazon did nail it with the boys and invincible tho
I believe the showrunner is important. Not the Studio. The Boys had these people who wanted to do something different than just superhero drama. They took chances and it worked.
If you are not having respect for the product and are only looking to be inclusive or just "fresh", to get the brownie points, without a plan or reason, it will show. It brings unwarranted attention to you and your business.
My biggest peeve with Amazon is Wheel of Time. Every time someone mentions WoT my face becomes the living representation of "Look how they massacred my boy". I am fine with changes but they need to be based on something. Or explained in some way it makes sense. Nothing like that happens usually. It feels like sometimes they just want us to accept whatever they put out and start dancing in their honor.
Sorry for the rant. Will go hide back to my cave.
Makes me sick how they managed to bungle WoT. So much great source material described in great detail. The way they completely changed the ending of the first book is inexcusable
Netflix doing that with Witcher as well. Like was said, the showrunner matters. Changes that work, work. Changes "to make it my own as an artist", not so much.
These people were hired to adapt something to screen. If we wanted them creating their own thing vaguely resembling it, they'd have been hired to create their own thing vaguely resembling it.
How to do a Disney style Expanded Universe™:
Bring in writers who hates/indifferent to the source material
Let them shoehorn as many contemporary issues as they can because it would never go stale (if it did, just do a remake)
Use CG and colour filters to telegraph what you want to say (not show).
Viewers and fans are stupid anx have no memory. You can just forget about plot and story.
Pay 2x the actual production budget for "marketing" aka internet shills to brow beat any and all criticism as racist incel male propaganda.
Pay internet "reviewers" and "review" sites to pump up the ratings. If that fails, lock down the sites.
Wheel of Time is a long series. They could have invested a bit more money in it and make something that will last them years a good while. It can sell merchandise too.
I couldn't agree more. I absolutely adore the books but I forced my way through the first 3 episodes and couldn't handle any more. But The Boys and Invincible are incredible. Same with Reacher and Jack Ryan. I don't blame "Amazon" as a whole or actors for the failed projects, but the writers, directors, and producers who destroy everything that we love and hold dear
You missed out on some really really bad CGI then when they get to “really big city of lady wizards” then. Sorry I haven’t read the books and don’t know any place names.
Tar Valon. And it's my wallpaper, the shot that shows the city with Dragonmount in the back. It also reminds me of what they did to Loial. 😑
You really should, it's an excellent series.
Book 4 has one of my favorite sequences in all of fantasy, and book 6 has one of the best conclusions in all of fantasy.
Just.... realize most of the show didn't happen in the book. It's really only an "adaption" in name only.
Ah yes. Jack Reacher. Also great. A faithful adaptation. Thanks for reminding me of it.
They actually used a giant man to play Jack Reacher this time, not 5'7" Tom Cruise lol. I haven't read the books but apparently its mentioned quite alot that he's huge
Wife and I knew after the first episode WoT was doomed. So disappointed
I am confused cause the only WoT I know is world of tanks.
Thanks in beforehand that you told me what it is!
Honestly my mind went to the game first
They absolutely 100% smashed Lower Decks. It's incredible. Well written, self-aware, perfect references, great characters, unique premise...
And have proven it with Season 2 being at least as good and so far Season 3 is the best yet.
If any Trekkies read this who were turned off by Discovery and Picard... Lower Decks is fantastic.
I love Lower Decks, it's so good. I wish they didn't release that cringey teaser trailer that turned everyone off the show before it even started.
oh yea, that trailer and how shit discovery and picard are made me assume it was trash
Gotta check it out then!
They saved The Expanse from cancellation.
Expanse also gud
It’s a bit ridiculous when the critics are rating this show better than the Peter Jackson films. That’s when you gotta know something is up.
No bro trust me bro nothing is wrong bro rings of power is just better bro please bro believe me.
Which critics? The consensus seems to be "its pretty good", not "its better than the movies".
I really like the show. It seems confident and slow paced, prepping for a long story arch. I wish WOT was done like this too
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You might know how dangerous dwarves can be over short distances, some might Say They are natural sprinters
i mostly liked RoP so far, but seriously what exactly was her plan when she jumped off the boat? can elves canonically swim forever or some shit?
and what was her plan if her and the squad actually found sauron in the ice palace? isn't he basically an angel? the fuck would she use against him, harsh language?
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Why is World of Tanks bad? (/s) ... What is WoT standing for?
The wheel of time-series
The Wheel of Time show on Amazon. I once described it by saying that the Eragon movie is a better adaption of the source material.
Think that should tell you all you need to know, really.
Right?? Im glad they didn't start the series with Galadriel killing Elrond in a fit of magical ecstasy. "Different turning of an Age, my ass
Perrin killing his wife was the one change I liked.
Gave him an actual good reason to be a mopey cunt for the next 6+ books.
Ah this killed me! He has no where to go character developmentwise. Mopey? Nah, I've always thought he was a timid hulk who was scared to hurt people due to his size.
He also said he thought they did mostly a good job. He didn't like Perrin's wife and had no input on the last 2 (was it 3?) episodes largely due to the scramble of the rewriting it. I watched most of his podcasts where he talked about it though I may have missed one or misheard but I never got the impression he didn't like it or was disappointed in it as a whole.
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Honestly, I cant understand how anyone can hate this show unless they’re just trying to find reasons. It’s already better than the hobbit trilogy.
God the hobbit was bad. But that’s what you get for stretching a fairly short book into three 2+ hour long movies
“Better than the Hobbit trilogy” is an extremely low bar
I don't hate the show, but I have a few grievances. For one, I found the hobbits in this series so annoying. I don't think Finrod or Galadriel were on ultimate quests to destroy Sauron. They had plenty of room to interpret lore or fill in gaps, why contradict things? Also, Celebrimbor in my mind always sounded impressive, but the show depicts him as a pretentious old dickbag. Although we see him for all of four minutes, and that was just counter to how I perceived his character.
I have no problems with Galadriel, other elves, or dwarves though. Curious to see who the man that crashed to the earth turns out to be (Sauron??).
Racism. Sure some people that don’t like it may not be racists(and most racists don’t consider themselves racists anyways) but all the hate got its start there. Its likely coordinated from one of the usual racists corners of the internet and they try to couch their criticism in lore and logic and then discredit anyone that calls it racism. Its an astroturf campaign by racists cloaking themselves with what they claim is legitimate criticisms of the show… before it had even come out.
Again just because you don’t like it doesn’t automatically make you a racist but there is absolutely a coordinated effort by racists to undermine the show. That sucks for everyone but its what those kind of people do.
These cunts try to ruin everything. The Haradrim empire were found by numenorians. Why wouldn't there be lighter and darker people on both sides after the corruption? Tolkien described the early hobbit and human tribes diverse in appearance. And nobody fuckin knows what the dwarfs do. If this race thing is of such importance, maybe don't watch the "fantasy" genre with million races but fuck your sister to purify the gene pool.
To be fair LOTR does have a bit of a racial purity thing going on. The numenorean line is weakened by interbreeding with regular humans.
Plus Aragon marries his 1st cousin 20 times removed or something.
“Hate” implies intense feelings. I don’t hate it. I just don’t like it. I think it’s boring and painfully generic. That is a fine opinion to have and doesn’t make anyone a racist or a troll lmao.
Honestly I find it a bit weird that there’s so many people who are so virulently defending this show to the point of calling anyone who doesn’t like it a racist and a hater.
Nah, we just….. don’t think it’s that interesting
YOU don’t think it’s that interesting. It’s getting defended because racists gonna racist, and people like you are caught up in that. If it’s so bad, just don’t watch it.
I watched the 2 episodes yesterday. All actors seemed to do a solid work and and the script was ok.
It's a slow start, I give you that but there is a decent effort to introduce the world to regular viewers too who might not no much about Tolkien's works.
When there were people in other subs and discord actively doing organized review bombing, it’s not right. Some don’t want a new Tolkien adaptation and haven’t even watched it, and that’s a bunch of the reviewers. I’m not a bezos guy but that’s just not giving it a fair shake. If one thing tolkien teaches us, is to give anyone a fair chance regardless if they’re a hobbit or an elf.
I fully agree with you. It's a loved classic and people have strong feelings about it. Still if someone wants to adapt their own version it's shouldn't be a summary negative.
Sometimes folk forget that fantasy is a piece of fiction/art and not real life.
Also, its my understanding that Amazon is not allowed to do a faithful adaptation because they have zero rights to the Silmarillion so some of the plot lines are going to be more like allusions to the book. I could be wrong though, that's just what I've learned from other comments.
This would be correct. As a good portion of the little written of the second age are written in The Silmarillion. I can see why some would say they shouldn't have a show about the second age then, if I'm being honest. However, with what we've gotten so far I'm loving it. I've watched them twice now and personally like it better than HoD, which I'm also loving. It's just more my type of fantasy though too. I'm also one who is fine with changes in adaptions and I also think they mostly did a good job on WoT which many would disagree with. I'm here to have fun not wring my hands over the minutia of sparsely written matters (I'm sure I'll be crucified for this comment so I'll at least add that of course much was also very detailed and likely complete and final) that the writer themselves very well could have changed later on or left some things out while adding others.
Is it true that they skipped the kinslaying in the summary of the departure from Valinor?
It is, but there's a valid reason why they did it. Amazon doesn't have the rights to silmarillion, just to the lotr, the appendices in lotr talk briefly about the events in previous ages, but since the kingslaying is silmarillion exclusive content, they legally can't talk about it.
They didn't have the rights to that I believe, but there is a scene at the very start that many people believe is a reference to the kinslaying, played out when Galadriel is a young child.
It's the same old cycle. "The fans are just racist!" "It's just Russian troll bots!" "Actually the Jackson movies suck too!" deletes negative reviews "The show is a smashing success!"
To be fair, I think every review given before the thing was released should be deleted, but I don't see anybody complaining about 10/10 best show ever reviews, it's only a problem when people dislike things.
Finally a person with some damn sense.
I wish this was a thing for ROP only but saddly its everywhere.
I will say that there does seem to be some heavy review bombing happening on Rotten Tomatoes. 39% positive audience reviews. Versus The Battle or Five Armies’ 74% positive audience.
Can’t criticize people’s sense of taste, but if folks really think Battle of Five Armies is “peak Tolkien” and RoP is “woke propaganda” then I don’t know what to say. My only response would be: Dol Goldur.
I honestly blame the culture war. People were always finicky about Tolkien, but with Elon Musk now weighing in on Elrond’s masculinity, we’re reaching parody levels.
If there's one thing I learned from TLJ is that they use these same old tactics to undermine any criticisms and dismiss any differing opinions.
For a moment there I scratched my head not understanding what The Longest Journey had to do with this.
I enjoy RoP but i hate Disney Star Wars. Still, the harassment some actors have been victims at the time were brutal and racist comments were not really hard to find. I’ve read several comments from the « anti woke » brigad here and there during the last days. I don’t want to make any generalization but one has to be aware that this kind of backlash zeitgeist is generally used as a Trojan horse for these kind of individuals. Plus It can become tiresome to not know if you’re talking with someone who’s just salty or a reactionary edgelord who’s here to feast on interpersonal drama and expose his toxic views. But I agree that those morons are always used as a smoke screen to explain bad reviews in the show business.
Regardless of whether we like a show or not, I think we can all agree that actors shouldn't be harassed for being in a piece of media we don't like.
The evidence clearly shows that people cannot agree to that
I agree almost entirely. But you also have actors saying they don’t care about details of the source material and that it’s their story to tell so they’re going to tell it as they like. That’s not a way to win over a fan base dedicated to lore & canon, and it is a way to fan the flames of the racist trolls.
Man this was so well said, kudos.
I feel like there are vastly different reasons to dislike the sequel trilogy compared to RoP.
I have a cynical take on the harassment. The actors were always going to face this harassment no matter the quality of film/tv show simply as a result of being who they are in a high profile production like this at this point in time.
It's a script at this point
Most criticism was about "wokness" "SJW" and harrassing people like Kelly Maria Tran.
Corporation sucks, but it is the internet anti-woke crowd only gives Bezos and Disney arguments.
"Could I be wrong? No, no it's the fans who are wrong."
There has indisputably been a bunch of moronic racist review bombing the show though. That's definitely happened.
Obviously not everyone who dislikes it is being racist or whatever, but there's definitely been some of that. Like with basically any big TV show or film or game these days, theres always a bunch of morons who decide they don't like it because women are in it, or black people are in it, or gay people are in it, and then they go and review bomb it and rant about it being wOkE.
This is why we can't have nice things.
And there's been a bunch of moronic people review bombing the show with 10/10, so what? Dishonestly reviewing stuff goes both ways.
I'd say to that it's much harder to prove someone doesn't actually like it 10/10, but someone complaining about black women in their fantasy is obviously not an actual criticism of the show.
And how do you know how many of the people rating the show 1/10 do so out of spite for black women?
I'd 100% rather people be moronic and give something a 10/10 uncritically than be moronic Nd racist and hate something because it doesnt look the way they want
Giving a show a 10/10 when it is not particularly good isn't remotely comparable to being racist lmao. Dishonesty is bad, but racism is far worse.
And how do you know how many people give the show a 1/10 because they are racist? There certainly are some, I won't disagree with that, but I am pretty sure they are a very small minority of reviewers.
It's statistically for more accurate that someone genuinely views it as a 10/10 than a 1/10. I'd hazard a guess that most of the 1/10 reviews are from people who've never seen the show and decided they hated it before it came out.
God, whataboutism is the most stupid fucking argument on this topic.
The review bombing is racist, misogynistic, and when it goes too far DANGEROUS.
Who GIVES A SHIT if someone rates it highly? Meanwhile these racist fucks spewing derogatory hate and DMing cast members death threats can go get fucked.
Who gives a shit if someone rates it lowly?
I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.
There any proof for this? I haven't seen any racism from reddit, YouTube or anywhere else I've been reading good and bad reviews.
I sure have seen a lot of people crying racism though to defend the show. TLJ defense is the same in 2022 as it was when it came out it seems.