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The Audiophile Over Time - Page 3 - Cockos Incorporated Forums
What styles are we talking about? Computer generated crap sample packs with poetry? They tried that in the fifties with bongos but it never really took off until the invention of the sub so the kids could irritate us without having to roll the windows down. I do understand it, I just don't like it.
But really, I don't consider any style as not legitimate. The kids love their hippitty hops as much as we ever grooved on Zep.
What drives the evolution of music is kids searching for identity. Part of that is finding sounds and styles that us older folks can't stand. My folks hated Zepplin, so that was my groove and they couldn't possibly understand the depth of my general teenage angst.
So by hating today's sample craptastic computer generated drivel, I'm actually helping evolution.
More bait has been tossed on the already foamy waters lol.
Well, I'm not going to argue with you about it. I have better things to do with my time, frankly, and I don't think you are open-minded enough for a meaningful discussion.
What drives the evolution of music is kids searching for identity. Part of that is finding sounds and styles that us older folks can't stand. My folks hated Zepplin, so that was my groove and they couldn't possibly understand the depth of my general teenage angst.
So by hating today's sample craptastic computer generated drivel, I'm actually helping evolution.
I get what you mean - or at least, I think so. And, interestingly enough, we're probably at least one generation apart.
Personally, I'm fond of 1990s trance - the hypnotic, fast, layered kind with 8+ minute tracks and spectrally evolving soundscapes, not so much the "simple melodies with supersaws" stuff. In 2010 or thereabouts, the last remnants of the hypnotic kind faded from popularity in the club scene, and radio shows which had played that music were quickly removing the word "trance" from their names (or redefining it as not referring to the genre).
Instead, club tracks that "kids" now seemed to like had slower tempos, simpler and quicker melodies, single-layer rising pitch tones, and/or loud bass-heavy sections with spectral modulation (dubstep and complextro). Which is all fine in the big picture, but for my personal enjoyment, especially the solo pitch risers were intolerable.
I'd much rather hear a harmonic buildup which increases in compositional and/or spectral complexity, than a single-layer pitcbend rising a few octaves for 32 bars. Granted, dubstep and complextro I can tolerate better - at least there's the spectral movement and rhythms to be entertained by - but none of those were my preferred style of club music anymore.
But, of course, for teenagers of that day, having their music differ from that of the previous era - and not seeing people my age at clubs and parties anymore - was part of their generation's empowerment.
Such is the progress of life. Each generation finds out what it feels like for "their era" to become history.
Not open minded lol. no dancing around all provocative for you, straight to the insult and a promise to not engage due to time value. Have I dissed Raffi somehow? I assume from your sideways response that Raffi is your age group... like 5 or 6.
And what might the argument you're in be about? I believe I said crap music was legitimate. I also said everything I record was invented before around 1965 That's not to say I don't use samples and loops of said instruments invented before 1965.
Is the argument whether my disgust is legitimate? Could this be about my tunes are better than yours?
Now please keep to your promise and don't respond.
At any rate, I don't have time either. This stuff can turn into endless hours quoting and arguing about nothing. I'll tell you what tho, you'll make a lot more money chasing 808's and crappy snares than I ever will chasing my pre-'65 sounds.
I get what you mean - or at least, I think so. And, interestingly enough, we're probably at least one generation apart.
Personally, I'm fond of 1990s trance - the hypnotic, fast, layered kind with 8+ minute tracks and spectrally evolving soundscapes, not so much the "simple melodies with supersaws" stuff. In 2010 or thereabouts, the last remnants of the hypnotic kind faded from popularity in the club scene, and radio shows which had played that music were quickly removing the word "trance" from their names (or redefining it as not referring to the genre).
Instead, club tracks that "kids" now seemed to like had slower tempos, simpler and quicker melodies, single-layer rising pitch tones, and/or loud bass-heavy sections with spectral modulation (dubstep and complextro). Which is all fine in the big picture, but for my personal enjoyment, especially the solo pitch risers were intolerable.
I'd much rather hear a harmonic buildup which increases in compositional and/or spectral complexity, than a single-layer pitcbend rising a few octaves for 32 bars. Granted, dubstep and complextro I can tolerate better - at least there's the spectral movement and rhythms to be entertained by - but none of those were my preferred style of club music anymore.
But, of course, for teenagers of that day, having their music differ from that of the previous era - and not seeing people my age at clubs and parties anymore - was part of their generation's empowerment.
Such is the progress of life. Each generation finds out what it feels like for "their era" to become history.
I agree... and some of that trance stuff has serious groove.
Lolz. We should party IRL, I'll DJ... a little Run The Jewels (rap) to get everyone riled up, Sasha and Digweed (trance) to mellow everyone out, and classic rock once everyone's a little drunk and just wants something they can sing along to. It could work.
Aaanyway, lots of cynicism about audiophile gear, any other opinions? I've heard magic -is- available with say mid 6 figures of the right gear, like put on an old Beatles record and get perfect holographic you are there fidelity and imaging, complete with studio chatter. That would be really cool. Not 6 figures of cool, unless I literally had everything else I ever wanted, but still.
I wonder what the used market is like on that level of gear. No one who can afford something like that wants to buy used I'd think. Maybe some real bargains out there. Of course 90% markdown on a $250K set of Wilsons is still more than I'll ever spend on pretty much anything that can be moved lol.
Personally, I'm fond of 1990s trance - the hypnotic, fast, layered kind with 8+ minute tracks and spectrally evolving soundscapes, not so much the "simple melodies with supersaws" stuff. In 2010 or thereabouts, the last remnants of the hypnotic kind faded from popularity in the club scene, and radio shows which had played that music were quickly removing the word "trance" from their names (or redefining it as not referring to the genre).
Ah... that brings me back. Back when Rallisport Challenge II came out, the XBox version allowed you to use your own tunes. I had some 10 min tracks from the bonus side of Conjure One's first album that were long enough.
I spent 1999 to 2002 immersed in the good, the bad, and the ugly of that particular scene. I lost count of the number of prominent DJs I saw at events. I heard the music stone cold sober... and... not.
Out of the huge number of discs I collected in that time, very, very few have survived in my playlists.
Shpongle... great stuff. BT (Movement in Still Life) still gets a spin now and then. But ultimately almost all of it just dropped off the cliff pretty quickly. Although for some reason "Return to Ibiza" from my copy of Slinky pops into my head periodically.
What did survive from that period was stuff I landed on because they were tangentially related. "Back to Mine", "Cafe del Mar", "Verve Remixed"... I found some excellent stuff by following those breadcrumbs.
However... if I ever hear another bit of a Lisa Lashes track again, I will be sad indeed.
Oh man, so much great stuff from that era and milieu. Still will listen to stuff like Coldcut, Underworld, God Within, Chemical Brothers, Massive Attack, Hooverphonic...
No longer can listen to: Fatboy Slim.
@Glennbo: Damn, forgot about Louis! And he deserves better than that. That is why drummers make music better... he runs that joint, I love how pushy he gets without rushing, except when they do actually accelerate lol.
@Glennbo: Damn, forgot about Louis! And he deserves better than that. That is why drummers make music better... he runs that joint, I love how pushy he gets without rushing, except when they do actually accelerate lol.
He makes you forget he's playing such a minimal set of drums, and has the fastest right foot I've ever heard with any drummer.
Edit: Louis has this very cool drum pattern video I hadn't seen.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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One of my base judgments on drummers is how they play a two piece kit. I could watch a guy really work a minimal setup all day long.
Louis could play trashcan lid and bucket and it would sound great.
When I was last playing live I shrunk my kit more and more so I could get in and out of the clubs as fast as possible. In the end I was playing a single tom Ringo kit with a tiny 16" kick, which became my recording kit.
Back in my "audiophile" days with huge bi-amped monitors, I mistakenly thought that bigger was better so I played a giant smoked plexiglass Ludwig double 24" bass kit with seven toms for my live drums.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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Can't believe how awesome that pic is. Are you playing on the -sidewalk-?? Are you -miced-???
It was a fun kit to play and at my old 1" tape studio those drums were in an isolation booth with a couple windows looking in from the control room. The drums had about 5 mics on that stage, but in the studio I used 13 mics on them with an SM57 inside each tom.
The pic was taken when my band in the 80s was playing downtown on what they call the "Water Stage", which is a stage surrounded by water coming from multiple fountains. We used to play down there for the lunch crowd at noon.
Here's what the Water Stage looks like with some other band playing.
All our gear had Anvil flight cases on wheels so I'd stack piles of drums on them and wheel them up the ramp into the back of the box van. Less work than setting up or tearing down the kit.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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All our gear had Anvil flight cases on wheels so I'd stack piles of drums on them and wheel them up the ramp into the back of the box van. Less work than setting up or tearing down the kit.
That is big time! Equipment will expand to fill the space needed to move it.
That is big time! Equipment will expand to fill the space needed to move it.
We filled the box van wall to wall full, where stuff couldn't move around in it while we were driving down the road. We carried a lot of big stuff like a Leslie 147 for the guitarist, another one for the keyboard player along with his Helpinstill acoustic/electric upright piano. Plus a pair of 18" JBL subwoofers and four JBL Cabaret 15" w/horn speakers that stacked on the subs.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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fastest right foot I've ever heard with any drummer
Yah, watched some more of his vids... I've always just enjoyed his groove, hadn't occurred to me how extremely technical he is. Far as I can tell he's up there in Mangini land independence-wise, and I'd always assumed he had a double pedal but noooo.
Quote:
Water Stage
Nice. Funny, without that context looks like you're rockin' a block party or such.
Yah, watched some more of his vids... I've always just enjoyed his groove, hadn't occurred to me how extremely technical he is. Far as I can tell he's up there in Mangini land independence-wise, and I'd always assumed he had a double pedal but noooo.
I can do double pops on kick, but he can play fast 16ths and keep it going for days.
Quote:
Nice. Funny, without that context looks like you're rockin' a block party or such.
It was a pretty intimate setting. You can see the guy in the suit behind me who was just walking down the sidewalk behind us, and stopped to check out the band.
And to bring it all back on topic, the "audiophile" PA we used in that band was a tri-amped JBL system based on front loaded 18" bass bins like these. One per side laying on their sides.
With two of these front loaded 15" and horn cabinets on each side. The two 15" cabs sitting side by side, were the exact same width as the bass bins, and they all had interlocking feet. That system sounded like a BIG kickass stereo.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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Back in the day when you couldn't go below 80 htz without a reel to reel wood was the key. 1/2 inch plywood bass bins would almost knock you over with a blast of warmth.
Wood speakers gave wood.
Then synth came along with its flat undetailed sound which begat mp3, which begat the lifeless sounds of wrap and techno hippity hop with the idiotic hand clap snare and the ever ridiculous 808 to match the plasticly speakered mp3.
I can't remember the last time I used a sound invented after 1956... not counting the fuzz pedal invented in '65. Seems to me after Harold Rhodes invented the electric piano we had pretty much every sound we needed to rock hard. It's been sonically downhill ever since.
Damn kids.
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Originally Posted by bennyboop
Back in the day when you couldn't go below 80 htz without a reel to reel wood was the key. 1/2 inch plywood bass bins would almost knock you over with a blast of warmth.
Wood speakers gave wood.
Then synth came along with its flat undetailed sound which begat mp3, which begat the lifeless sounds of wrap and techno hippity hop with the idiotic hand clap snare and the ever ridiculous 808 to match the plasticly speakered mp3.
I can't remember the last time I used a sound invented after 1956... not counting the fuzz pedal invented in '65. Seems to me after Harold Rhodes invented the electric piano we had pretty much every sound we needed to rock hard. It's been sonically downhill ever since.
Most of us likely began as audiophiles. We fretted over the difference between high end speakers, and some of us carefully analyzed response curves. We researched the differences between A, B, and A/B amplifiers. We positioned our home theatre speakers carefully and adjusted individual speaker levels from a reference point in the middle of the couch. When all we could get was a 192k mp3, we scoured sources for uncompressed FLACs. When we couldn't get Pink Floyd songs to seamlessly transition because of the minimum slice size of an MP3, it drove us crazy.
Or maybe it was just me... but...
There is a great moment in store for those people. It usually happens some time after our hearing has deteriorated to the point where we could no longer spot the difference in a blind A/B test. It's the day where we realize we've physically fallen out of the zone.
And that day is a great one! It's the day you realize that a $300 amplifier is... pretty darn good. Speakers don't need to be astronomically priced and impractical. And maybe - just maybe - a movie is great with a soundbar and a subwoofer turned down low enough to not bother the neighbours. And maybe you can dispense with all that wiring running around your baseboards.
It's not that you no longer care about audio quality... it's that you can recognize there's such a thing as "good enough", and music can be enjoyed through a single earpiece on a mono AM radio in 1979, all the way to centre seats at the Boston Symphony Hall.
Nick Lowe, "Cruel to be Kind" doesn't sound right to this day, because I listened to it first on a 45 rpm "Winnie the Pooh" record player.
...and somehow, it was even stupider the second time.
Going for a third. I gather you don't like it when a fellow engineer/musician shoots at you beloved 808 bonkfart and digitasered hihat. All good. Put up some music you created so I can point out the error of your ways.
But really, kids drive the evolution of music. When they find a sound or style that irritates their parents they quickly claim it as their voice for teen angst. The 808 etc. are awful enough sounds to piss the old farts off so it's official. Fuck yoo mom and dad.
Now granted I'm old, just turned 60 the other day, which is another official line. I've been tracking and playing the crap that was playing when I hit puberty. I look around and see everybody doing the exact same thing. Playing the same old shit and even wearing the same old clothes styles. Even the immigrants and other tribes do exactly the same shit.
The take away from all this should be we're all fucked and living is a waste of time. We're programmed barely conscious automatons bent of killing the planet with great delusions of grandeur because our music is so cool.
Hopefully this has been stupider the third time as well.
I hate doing this. I never post my music anywhere but in the forum that's meant for posting music. But he told me that he would "Show me the error of my ways". So, I'm always willing to learn. That's the only reason I posted it.
I apologize to the rest of you.
I found the original to be an enjoyable listen.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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It's a great name. One of my cat's is Thurston Howell III.
I didn't know who the heck you were talking about, so I googled him, only to discover he spoke in something called a "Locust valley lockjaw accent", now that's an interesting mouthful in of itself!
You missed the point, Poindexter. You got caught using another account and posting the exact thing you said twice. And yes, it was stupid all 3 times. I stopped reading your drivel after the first paragraph this time. I can't lower my IQ enough to read any more of your rambling.
As far as putting up MY music, no problem. I know that, no matter what you actually think, you're obviously going to say it's shit. I got no problem with that.
I've heard your so-called "mixes". I even commented on one of your "mixes" today, not realizing it was you and thinking it was a joke, but I'm beginning to believe you were actually serious when you posted it. So, I seriously couldn't care less what you think of my music.
Here you go. Looking forward to you "pointing out the error of my ways." LOL!
Tear them apart, Poindexter. I can take criticism, unlike "some" people.
Lol. Something is screwy here. I didn't post under any name but Cosmic Pig, So I'm not sure what's up with the other guy... also I didn't post any music. Can you put a link to the jokey mix?
At any rate, where's the 808? I thought that was what we were arguing about. Your tunes are fine. re: blueberry Sky. Just a guess here, but I suspect you're a guitar player because all the parts are just a hair busy, especially bass. I get the Beatles so you probably diggin the Paul attempt. I was never really a fan of Mcartney's guitar busy bass lines but I will concede the guy is a genius and brought some serious shit to the bass table.
I assume programmed drums? I could probably pick it out if I could stand listening through another round. Ha! Kidding. Take it easy. Don't poop in yer panties. It's good stuff and I gave you an honest critique.
I didn't write the lyrics or melody for Luke, but I wrote all the parts and did guitars and programmed drums and produced, tracked, mixed, and mastered it.
Haha! Thurston Howell was the millionaire on "Gilligan's Island". Played by Jim Backus, who also did Mr. Magoo.
Never seen it. I imagine it was shown in UK at some point, clearly big in the States given all the casual mentions it gets in films and TV.
Before my time, even the repeats it seems - I don't get to say that too often these days!
I'm listening to "Drifting" right now. Really digging it. Are you playing everything? I'll listen to more of your stuff later tonight. So far, I like very much.
Thanks! I'm playing drums, bass, guitars, Wurlitzer, clavinette, Latin percussion and steel drum.
My multi-talented friend Polymod (Larry Benigno) is playing a real MiniMoog from the 70s, a real Korg 01/W, real Fender Rhodes, plus the guitar solos on a Les Paul and Fender Telecaster.
If you click the little icon images for the songs on the player, it will show detailed info, lyrics, and who plays what on the song.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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Back when Rallisport Challenge II came out, the XBox version allowed you to use your own tunes. I had some 10 min tracks from the bonus side of Conjure One's first album that were long enough. 
Linear Mode
