Discussion + counterprogramming against coercive psychiatry and the mental health industrial complex. We think many psych diagnoses do not meet basic medical standards. We think many popular interventions can be more harmful than helpful. Survivor-led, but all are welcome here.
And that’s all I have to say about that..
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Telling anyone that their personality is disordered is shockingly awful what ever reason lies behind it
But at the same time, some people seem to accept this diagnosis, maybe finding comfort in it as some sort of explanation for how they navigate life. That’s the impression I get…
But then all the other people who absolutely hate it and feel stigmatised beyond belief…
Another example of psychiatry one size fits all hitting the mark for a few whilst causing harm to the many, wading in and wrecking lives
It kinda blows a hole in psychiatry’s cover though, because on the one hand they want us to think of disorders as genetically determined biological diseases. On the other hand they are diversifying into diagnosing disorders based on so-called traits and behaviours. It’s kind of not clear what they’re about really, or what they actually stand for
Ya it's so often used to further marginalize trauma victims. Imagine being abused and then being told your personality is disordered? That would be horrible. There is a group of people who don't mind, but it might be because embracing it is less painful for them than fighting it. Ultimately if psychiatry is going to keep it as a thing, it should be renamed depending on the cause for the individual as either a trauma response, or as an environment issue, or as result of emotional neglect, or for some people as a neurodivergence. Not some mystical weakness of character labelled to allow for more mistreatment from healthcare providers. This diagnosis and the way it is approached in healthcare is an example of superstition in psychiatry.
Agree and I think for all the people who accept it you’re spot on. Accepting the label is always less painful than facing whatever is really going on in their lives (abusive families, childhood adversity, problems in living). People who find meaning in the labels are not my enemy. It just hurts me see people fall for the same bs I did for so many years of my life.
BPD is definitely just modern day hysteria diagnosis. Most people diagnosed with BPD are survivors of complex trauma and/or sexual assault. When I was in high school I had a really bad experience with a girl who took comfort in her label of BPD. She got really close to me emotionally really quickly, and then once emotional intimacy was established, was just absolutely horrible to me, like very emotionally abusive, and that is not a term I use lightly. It's really tough, cause on the one hand, I understand she was a survivor of complex trauma, but on the other hand, I wasn't in a position yet in my life, where I knew how to put up healthy boundaries and got incredibly hurt by her. Unfortunately when we're dealing with trauma, it's not uncommon to hurt others while trying to reestablish healthy patterns, but it doesn't change the fact we hurt people in the process. I've spent years unraveling my own internalized prejudices against the diagnosis because of her. And thankfully, I'm much further along in that then I was years ago, but it took years to do. I think that's one of the things I was most envious of about public school/normal private school kids vs spec ed/TTI, they could be mean or shifty or whatever, and not be even half as pathologized most the time.
It’s also mind boggling that refusing to accept a BPD diagnosis is considered further evidence of having BPD, whereas admitting to the diagnosis is considered part of the recovery process. By definition, BPD does not allow people to advocate for themselves or challenge the system.
Now I’ve got on the bandwagon of accusing psychiatrists of gaslighting, I think what you describe is another fine example of it
It's like alcoholism in that way. Fuck man, spelling it out like that gives me flashbacks to my state mandated "treatment" for alcoholism. Yeah they did get me to stop drinking for a few months, but overall I feel like all that nonsense made my drinking problem worse.
AA? That shit is even less scientific than psychology.
Agreed
And their lack of understanding of how these labels affect individuals. They’re not trained in psychology, they have medical training to deal with ‘troubled’ minds. I don’t think they’re capable of understanding how once someone’s labelled, they’re more likely to act towards the label. Or interpret their thoughts of growth as abnormal causing much more of a issue than the thoughts itself. They’re incapable because obviously it’s gotta be mandatory to leave any sense of common decency behind to practice psychiatry and because they’re not trained in understanding thoughts in the first place but only to manipulate them.
I was actually labeled by someone who was trained in psychology. I started acting toward the label and wasn't able to get out of the crisis. Once I stopped associating with it, I started regaining my identity and mending the two relationships that had suffered. I've gone through the criteria and realized I’d never fit all of them, and now I can ckeck only two that can be attributed really to anything, and the fear of abandonmend, which started from a trauma-bond of three years ago. This is nothing but trauma — not a fucking prrsonality didorder.
Psychologists shouldn’t even be service workers. Their work should be research based, the ones that are doing research work point out to the fallacy and harms of medicilisation of mental issues. Most work alongside psychiatry because nothing’s easier than building a career around treating invisible disorders. The labels are just their way of expressing the hate they have towards the ones they can’t understand which creates even a bigger hate in them because they think they know everything about human existence.
Respectfully disagree — there ARE good therapists. My current therapist asked me “Do you really identify yourself with bpd (I’d stopped by that time)? Because that's what women with c-PTSD usually get.” And I'm finally getting the help that I need. I guess such professionals are just really hard to find, and honestly, I'm lucky to have an insurance that gives me options. I got rejected by seven others only because I put bpd in my requests — dodged seven bullets, really. They just showed me how catastrophic the situation in the field is.
Is BPD the label they give you if you vent or argue with the therapist? Because I feel like I could do that..
Personality disorders are lifelong. Except BPD. Nearly half of people with BPD won't have it in a decade. That's a big red flag bpd is not BPD!
Sounds legit
This was the label that got me to question it all ten years ago. It would take another ten years of total and complete hell before letting go completely.
Can’t even put into words what three letters and a label took from me in terms of my health, sanity, safety and self-esteem. It’s as though a spell is cast on the victim with some of these labels: you cannot trust yourself and you’ll never be taken seriously ever again. It was soul-crushing.
Having a hard day today but I’m grateful to be free of psychiatry for another 24 hours.
Brilliant comment, and enlightening into your situation. Thank you
Mmhmm. Sounds about right. I had a shrink try to label me with that stigmatizing and highly pejorative diagnosis, within just 5 minutes of meeting me—she wrote in her notes that my criticism of psychiatry was evidence of “splitting.”
I was in acute withdrawal from antipsychotics at the time, and hadn’t been given my hrt (hormones) in days, because they didn’t have them in stock, they said. I was pretty irritable and told them why. Instead they interpreted that as evidence for a problem with anger, further proof of Bpd, they wrote. Like wtf.
I hate psychiatry with so much more than a passion these days and such terrible experiences with them that I’m not able anymore to just go along with them or make efforts to disguise my incredulousness, anger and disgust. So any psychiatrist I meet now will be on the back foot with me. They can’t cope with this, being narcissistic and delusional themselves, and massively un-self aware and in denial. So a bad one is likely to turn against you in ways you describe as their way of deflecting any attention on their own unethical practice
The new female "hysteria". Being difficult? Get the label of Borderline.
Most psych diagnoses are bullshit. But yes, you're right.
I would go further than that but I’m exhausted now! Running out of antipsychiatry steam
All of them are bullshit! I got you.
Modern day version of hysteria
When BPD starts to sound ridiculous or when there's too much public outcry they'll come up with a new disorder.
Further down I posted a link to document from Platform, a Welsh voluntary sector organisation, who are arguing to replace the diagnosis with C-PTSD. Since there’s so much overlap and in doing so, reduce the stigma and all associated “challenges” let’s call them of having this pejorative and bullshit label
This is their main site
https://platfform.org
They all end with "disorder", if we are all gonna be strict with name and linguistics, once you feel it's a disorder it's already a losing battle because then you will see it as your enemy instead of healing catalyst...
It’s literally like “Oh, you’ve been abused and gaslit? I’m going to literally give everyone in your life/circle of care ammunition to blame you for every disagreement you’re involved in and to make you question your own sanity, morality and version of events because you’ve been diagnosed with insane evil bitch disorder.”
When you put it like that, it truly sounds horrendous. I’m sorry anyone suffers this treatment dished out by other “humans”
It’s the new “hysteria” diagnosis. It’s almost always diagnosed in women or gay men (rarely straight men) who have a history of abuse / trauma especially sexual abuse and assault. It labels us as the problem instead of our society and doesn’t fit the nuance of the fact that survivors of abuse have complex trauma. Yes dbt is helpful, but you still won’t get better unless you do some intensive trauma work which is almost always never covered by insurance, insanely expensive and inaccessible to most.
Trauma work is full of woo too. It's pathetic how psychology neglected this area and let charlatans hock repackaged mysticism as treatment.
I don’t think EMDR is woo woo? And I’m a crainosacral therapist and have gotten tons of crainosacral and emotional release massage and it’s been super helpful to me. I’ve also done a lot of somatic therapy which has been extremely helpful.
It certainly is. Look into how it was created.
Also when female therapists are triggered by a patient that reminds them of their own mother issues
Lucy Van Pelt was once counselling Charlie Brown about how he felt. She said "If we can understand your problem we can put a label on it."
Yes
agreed. source: am a woman, have previously been diagnosed with ptsd and "complex trauma", which was redacted and replaced with "emotionally unstable personality disorder" (bpd) at some point, unbeknownst to me. i don't meet the diagnostic criteria and i haven't been to a psychiatrist since they let my own 'diagnosis' slip to me and i had a horrendous panic attack due to how invalidated and retraumatized i felt. i haven't not met the diagnostic criteria for c/ptsd for almost a decade straight.
Ooh. I have another one for ya! So. One psychologist office I had A first appointment with. The psychologist was located an hour away from me. And I moved my entire schedule to accommodate him because it was very hard to get This and neuropsychological evaluation for ADHD approved. And guess what?
The front desk calls me 20 minutes before the appointment, so I’m already on my way driving and informed me that oh miracle happened. The psychologist is not in the office today. He’s out due to emergency. Well, I don’t receive the voicemail and time and I arrive there like shocked like the front desk, and then I see the psychologist walk in and take another patient with them and the patient and the mother are like oh thank you so much. Dr. for squeezing us and blah blah blah blah .
So I turn around and I go what the fuck like you guys told me that he wasn’t here and you guys told me this 20 minutes before my arrival. I have an hour away and they started scrambling, and then they said oh, you can wait till 1 PM. This was a 9 AM appointment and maybe you can see him then there’s an opening then so because I don’t wanna commute so far away till 1 PM , one 1 PM is there. I am in for an absolute shock, so apparently the front desk told the doctor I was lying. They had inform me of time that I had created a scene that I was yelling, and I did none of that I was very calm and collected when I was communicating with them, of course, I was upset, but I don’t yell and I don’t, I am not unreasonable, so this Dr. was adamant and very angry at me and telling me that I have borderline personality disorder and I offered him the voicemail to make him hear that he I got the notice really late and I live really far away, I don’t wanna come back again. I move my entire schedule to see you and I don’t want to do this again, and he was just adamant that I was lying to him and I was dishonest and so long story short, it was the front desk? I was being dishonest and was lying, and they were the ones with borderline personality disorder, but they’re going around, making others appear like they have it, and he was adamant and pushy telling me that I had borderline personality because I had made a scene and I was like I did not make any scene. I basically told him like what the hell why didn’t you inform me out of time?
Edit: Lots of typos because I’m using talk type, but I think you guys will understand what I’m saying
Yes, I understand. That’s shit that happened to you. Excellent example though of how a pejorative label can be abused by a healthcare worker is much further along the spectrum of manipulative behaviours than you are!
I didn’t understand your last sentence
Sorry! I think I have verbal diarrhoea
Because they talk about these traits and so on being on a spectrum - so like everyone has them to some degree or other but not necessarily enough to get a diagnosis. I was trying to make a joke that they are acting out and belittling us and leaning more towards the diagnosis than we are, with their behaviour…
I had in mind my own examples as well, but I’ll spare you any more long windedness
Aha no worries thanks!
I really think you should report him to the state licensing board and insist they look at the call records. This is a life changing diagnosis based on the lies of a secretary.
Unfortunately this happened 2-3 years ago idk if they do anything without evidence because I did not finish the report luckily the insurance did not approve and he was adamant about this diagnoses. I hate peoples like this, many simply listen to heresay and already are walking in with preconceived notion regarding “mental health patients”. It’s sick.
One of the main issues is that BPD has what psychology calls a bad object. Their self has become small and labelled “bad” unlike the person with NPD’s self which was removed and replaced with a grandiose self. This is done in self defence to protect oneself. It’s the result from trauma.
By labelling the person with BPD the “bad” object is further bullied and put in a negative light. The diagnosis BPD can actually make the person add negative traits to the already suffering self, adding further trauma just by a diagnosis.
I believe spirituality and understanding are the most important factors for healing. This should be combined with care from a knowledgeable and caring person not by a psychiatrist who wants to prescribe poison which only will add layers upon layers of suffering to unravel.
Do you know the original diagnosis for what we know know as “borderline personality disorder” was hysteria. Let that sink in for a moment
“The diagnostic category of borderline personality disorder (BPD) has come under increasing criticism in recent years. In this paper, we contribute to that literature by analyzing the role and impact of epistemic injustice, specifically testimonial injustice, in relation to the diagnosis of BPD. We first offer a critical sociological and historical account, detailing and expanding a range of arguments that BPD is problematic nosologically. We then turn to explore the epistemic injustices that can result from a BPD diagnosis, showing how experiences of testimonial injustice within BPD can prevent patient engagement in meaning-making activities, thereby undermining standard therapeutic goals. We conclude by showing how our arguments bolster ongoing efforts to replace the diagnostic category of BPD with alternatives such as complex post-traumatic stress disorder.”
Introduction excerpt from https://www.researchgate.net/publication/371783554_The_New_Hysteria_Borderline_Personality_Disorder_and_Epistemic
True , its just an agenda to make us lose self esteem and feel limited and like we broken and also pharma loves money and they love bpd individuals
OR - and we are seeing this over and over - given to people the therapist has harmed and its applied so others won't believe their disclosures.
It's the most bullshit diagnosis and it's given out to everyone these days, I got told I have BPD at 15, I do not, I'm just a teenager that has gone through a lot of abuse. BPD is just PTSD. It's really the new hysteria.
I know 🫂
I read that something like 80% of borderline diagnosis fall into your description. But the couple women I know with BPD really do seem to have it and accept that diagnosis.
Scapegoat to shutemup Scientism. Psychiatry sells itself as a cure for the stereotype du joir. That's the only way it continues to exist despite 0 evidence. They are there to pretend that stereotypes are actual people and that they alone can heal society of whatever stereotype it fears at whatever moment.
Essentially every single diagnosis other than cptsd is just symptoms, that everyone has, whether they are aware or not, I enjoy reading them and reflect in myself, it's quite validating if you don't take it personally or get offended by it which I don't anymore. Psychic illness is so interesting, it both exists in every one yet it doesn't exist at all. Everyone has a program, a pattern, a script, it's pretty obvious if you get a sensitive episode to detect it. Most people walk around on earth not even knowing this is something they don't know ...
I was told I had this. There was no investigation into my trauma and active abuse. She didn't notice my severe neurodivergent conditions. She did not uncove that my carefully bland persona was a conscious choice to not develop my personality because of homophobia and transphobia and an abusive homelife. Everything in BPD can be explained by these three things. Pretty insane they can get it so wrong.
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The diagnoses is the symptoms. The diagnoses is the list of symptoms + the idea that there is something wrong with you for having those symptoms.
"My personality is disordered" -> Change personality.
"I'm having normal, human, understandable, predictable, reasonable, proportional, logical, good, healthy, sane, humane, rightful, protective reactions to circumnstances that are so f*cked up that they are beyond the capabilities of any human to withstand while acting and feeling "good" (because why tf do you "have to" feel good and "act good"? Wtf is "acting good" in the first place? According to whom?)" -> Change environment and give support.
Only abusers DARVO the sh*t out of you into making you believe that your reactions to their inhumane, abusive, harmful, horrible, messed up, fucking up, cruel, atrocious, devastating, life-wrenching, painfully maddening behaviors are wrong while doing things that are 1.000× more vile to you.
I think the comment is generalising to start a discussion, but I think the generalisation is supported by the evidence as well
https://platfform.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Briefing-on-Borderline-Personality-Disorder-March-2022.pdf
That document says
The diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) is a label that is used disproportionality on women, with 75% of those receiving the diagnosis women1. Yet 81% of those diagnosed with BPD have disclosed past trauma2. In 2019, women are 7 times more likely to be diagnosed with BPD than men with a similar presentation
so I think the comment is fair enough, but equally your point is valid
And of course you’re not going to feel liked by anybody who tells you that your personality is disordered. The document argues it’s “an enduring pejorative judgment rather than a clinical diagnosis”
The document also says “A diagnosis of ‘BPD’ means people get told ‘there’s nothing more we can do’
So the OP seems pretty spot on
Yes, but if the diagnosis is BS, then the emotional or behavioral issues that are called symptoms aren't actually symptoms. They're something else, like problems in living.
It is a general goal of the industry's coms efforts that everyone shall refer to all unpleasant human behaviors, emotions, moods, and nonconforming thoughts and beliefs as 'symptoms,' as it directly implies disease without actually saying disease.
Yeah, exactly.
That is ignoring the gender disparity as many more women are diagnosed with BPD compared to men.
It's just bipolar genes with traumatic or difficult childhood experiences, not a personality disorder
Somewhat yeah. It also depends on what age people are being diagnosed with personality disorders. Any personality disorder diagnosis under 25 or so is kind of a red flag. That’s not to say that those under 25 are incapable or that the “brain is fully matured at 25” is scientifically accurate, but I think it is important to recognize that behaviors change with age.
behaviors are contextual. People may act borderline around abusive/toxic people or in certain environments/scenarios but may not show any symptoms when their basic and emotional needs are fulfilled.
Gay men are more often diagnosed with borderline than heterosexuals (maybe because of the “femininity” or less masculine presentations.) it’s a bunch of bullshit
Interesting, that about gay men. I didn't disclose all my symptoms and was assumed to be BPD. The symptoms I left out are associated more with men than women. Now that I've transitioned to male, I should tell a new doctor the same thing and see if their sexism lands me with a different diagnosis. I could go in closeted. Then I could go to a third practitioner and be open about being trans and bisexual and see what that leads to.
Oh being trans will get you instantly diagnosed lol.
I’m skeptical of and generally against psychiatric labels, but hallmarks of BPD are definitely a thing that exists. I think it occurs in a roughly equal number of men and women, but men get diagnosed with ptsd more often instead. Also, I think its presentation is more apparent and/or pronounced in women; similar to how autism presents more readily in men.