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When someone says The Incredible Hulk is a sequel to the 2003 Hulk...
I've heard it called a soft reboot. Basically, it isn't directly a sequel, but at the same time it isn't completely new. You can either watch it as a sequel or reboot and you aren't completely wrong.
This is exactly it. There's a scene where Ross lists Banner's victims and they're everyone who died in 2003's Hulk
Except the origins are completely changed in the beginning of The Incredible Hulk from the origin of the Hulk.
I can see where you're coming from, but that's a hard buy.
From the mouth of Kevin Feige: "Ang Lee explored one percent of the Hulk mythos: Bruce Banner’s childhood and the trauma that allowed this creature that burst forth,” says Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige. “We wanted to explore the other 99 percent.”
In other words - its a soft reboot, as u/holycow958 mentioned.
They didn't want to retell the origin so they reshot a lot of Ang Lee's Hulk's origin with Norton and that was the film's title cards (if I remember correctly). But it is a spiritual sequel in that the things that happened in Ang Lee's Hulk happened in TIH's timeline but stupid stuff like Banner's dad being the Absorbing Man and Hulk Dogs are being completely ignored.
So think of it as a sequel to just the good stuff in Ang Lee's Hulk instead of a real sequel.
While you make an understandable argument, I can see why your reliance on this article (which starts with the statement that TIH is a sequel) is the basis of the opinion.
However, the same article states:
Is this is a sequel to the last “Hulk” movie or what?
No, it’s more of a reboot.
It's not an informed article. The writer uses a soundbite by Feige (in which he's neither saying that TIH is or isn't a sequel to Hulk) and is making an opinion, an opinion made 2 weeks before the release of TIH and I assume had just presumed.
When Feige says: "Ang Lee explored one percent of the Hulk mythos: Bruce Banner’s childhood and the trauma that allowed this creature that burst forth [...] We wanted to explore the other 99 percent.” this reads to me as Feige saying they don't need to give depth on Hulk's origins in the next Hulk film when Ang Lee covered it so deeply in his version.
It's all arguable because it's not a confirmation answer. You can call it a soft reboot, but it's a reboot regardless. It's not a sequel because those origins are different, if shortened.
They didn't want to retell the origin so they reshot a lot of Ang Lee's Hulk's origin with Norton and that was the film's title cards
They didn't reshoot the Ang Lee origins, they simply shot new origins for the film, with a new backstory (Hulk was Banner working on nanomeds, TIH had Banner working on recreating the Super Soldier serum with Betty and the military). The filmed origins in TIH were taken out of the film and remade as the montage intro to improve the film's pacing.
tl;dr The Incredible Hulk is not a sequel, it's a reboot.
I agree with you in a way, but everyone else is also right by calling it a 'soft' reboot. No one is arguing that it isn't a direct sequel. However, at the same time, they are arguing that it is the same Bruce Banner, just with a rebooted setting, hence: 'soft reboot'.
It certainly isn't, but to be fair it shares some elements. It was early enough in the MCU and close enough to Hulk that it seems like they kind of assumed audiences would connect the two in certain ways (Skipping most of the origin, Banner being in South America, etc.). As well, the film began as a sequel to Hulk but Norton rewrote some of it. Also, Gale Ann Hurd even went so far as to say it had elements of a sequel AS WELL as a remake/reboot. It's a strange place that that movie is in, especially since Norton's gone now.
I genuinely didn't like The Incredible Hulk and preferred 2003 Hulk. It had some parts that were straight stupid (the guy blowing up and freezing mid-frame, I also wasn't a fan of his father turning into super villain) but I liked the actors more and the storyline more.
I won't knock you for liking the 2003 version, but that movie took a dump on the Character, I enjoyed watching it, but I feel like Norton's Hulk was the more faithful of the two, therefore better IMO.
I'm sort of with you. I still think Bana was the best Banner. And Jennifer Connolly played a PERFECT Betty. Liv Tyler paled in comparison. I honestly liked the fadeouts, cut-ins, and freeze frames Ang Lee did. It felt like a living comic. Where the movie goes wrong for me is Banner's dad being Absorbing Man, and the damn giant poodle.
Incredible Hulk, while closer to the source, just wasn't very imaginative at all. It felt like a superhero movie neutered.
The funny thing about 2003 Hulk is I enjoyed the psychological origin up to when Hulk happened. Then it flatlined. It was amazing, then ridiculously bad. TIH had a good balance and was simply an overall enjoyable film as it stands (for me). Plus, Hulk had never looked so awesome to that point.
Police car for gloves....that was all that it took for me to enjoy the shit out of The Incredible Hulk. Everyone touts it as the black sheep of the current MCU....but I found it to still be very enjoyable with some great characters.
It was glorious!
I agree completely with the psychological part, that was definitely my favorite. Hulk is a broken character and deserves to be depicted but like Tony Starks alcoholism, Marvel is choosing to depict them in a less obvious way in newer movies for good reason, most parents probably wouldn't want to take their kids to a movie where the supercool hero is also an alcoholic.
I think Hulk is digestible, and at the very least interesting. Some of it is not good (absorbing man(?), the bizarre and unexplainable final battle). I don't prefer it, but I get where you're coming from.
I have nothing to contribute to this debate except that is the best animated gif ever....
It's more like they accepted the first film happened, and people saw it and know the story...so lets just recap the gamma radiation and transformation scene in the opening credits.
Got it? Good. FLASH FORWARD TO BRAZIL!
It was very well done.
I kind of wished the Spider-Man reboot had done that so we didn't have to repeat the origin and Harry Osborn again.
We get it. He accidentally gets bitten, uncle dies, with great power, blah blah blah. I watch the reboot for kicks, but man...they severely dropped the ball not just getting us into the thick of things with Peter Parker. But nah, let's blow 1/3 of the movie establishing shit we already knew.
I could've potentially loved the new films if they just made a safe reboot and made it a sort of sequel with different actors but a new story.
Lou Ferrigno is so fucking cool
I still want to know what happened to Mr Blue after the serum trickle into his blood stream & his head got all funky.
My thoughts exactly. I also feel this way when people expect Spider-man, The X-men and the Fantastic Four to show up in The Avengers movies...
One of the top google results for 'Hellboy' was 'Will Hellboy appear in Avengers 2?'
No. No he will not.
But he was the guy they showed at the end of Avengers 1, right?
I'm being sarcastic, but I've been asked that question in ernest before.
They were going to add Oscorp Tower to the New York skyline in Avengers, but they ran out of time. Also, Wolverine was going to make a cameo in Spider-Man 2. They had Hugh Jackman on set and everything, but there was some sort of mixup with his costume.
Source on the Hugh Jackman cameo?
Google seems to come up with sources. But I don't believe either of these rumors at all - they're just that, rumors, to build hype. There's no precedent for crossover like that. Remember it was a big deal that Marvel was crossing over its in-house properties at all.
Well keep in mind that Kevin Feige, current head of Marvel Studios, is the main reason we have a shared universe, and was an executive producer on a lot of the pre-Studios films. He was the one that was making that cameo happen. Shared movie universe was an idea he'd had since college.
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I can just imagine how much this is going to confuse casual movie watchers.
One, a pretty cool dude in a costume going super fast.
The other, a teenager in a home-made costume from the 80's.
What I personally liked about 2003 HULK
-
What they did to the character's origin was something I found really interesting. It gave the character an interesting depth to his personality. Its a different take on the mythology but still stays honest to parts of it yet it still makes sense.
-
Hulks movement in this one felt more like the brute Hulk we saw in Avengers. Taking giant leaps in the sky in a single bound. The shot of him in the vast desert was pretty awesome. I thought that him increasing size proportionate to anger was pretty cool.
-
And I also loved Jennifer Connelly as Betty Ross in this one. Eric Bana as Banner not so much. It looked like he could beat you up in this one.
The Incredible Hulk had definitely more characters which felt very MCU. Tim Roth as Abomination is gold. Even his character motivation felt kinda right. Samuel Sterns is in this one. Loved Thunderbolt Ross in this one. Though up to now, I still have a hard time accepting Ty Burrell as Doc Samson.
Can only see Burrell as Phil Dunphy now.
Same, but I think Ty is good enough of an actor to come across as distinguishable, should he return.
i've heard in a special feature or interview, i can't remember which, that they intentionally made the movie to appear like a sequel to the 2003 hulk, hence the beginning of incredible hulk is similar to how hulk 2003 ended (hiding in a latin american country)
The Incredible Hulk used that ambiguous setting as the ideal way to have Banner on the run (like a modern take on the TV show) before getting him to go back to America, sure. But I've never heard it to be used as some sort of open sequel setting.
I always figured that, since there was nothing in it which conflicted with the 2003 Hulk, why not consider it as such?
Glenn Talbot died in the 2003 Hulk, yet is alive in the MCU and will be appearing in an upcoming episode of Agents of SHIELD.
They did freeze frame his "death". Did we ever see a body? ;)
Luckily, it's Marvel. We can always just say "LMD".
Has LMD ever been used in the MCU before????
They were referenced in The Avengers (Tony Stark pretended to be one to avoid talking to Coulson.)
Other than the tongue-in-cheek reference in Avengers, no.
Or, should I say "not that we know of... yet."
They were mentioned by Stark in IM2 I believe.
A) It wasn't made by Marvel studios. Think of Ang Lee's Hulk(2003) in the same light as Fantastic Four, X-men, and Spider-man.
B) The origin of Hulk is completely different in both films. In Hulk, Bruce Banner Hulks out because the Gamma Radiation interacted with what his dad injected him with as a child. In The Incredible Hulk, Banner is unwittingly experimenting on a new super soldier serum, which Hulks him out when he blasts himself with Gamma Rays. Banners dad has nothing to do with it.
C) Banner gets bigger the angrier he gets in Ang Lee's Hulk. That doesn't happen in The Incredible Hulk or The Avengers
D) That movie sucked and Marvel knows it. They got as far away from it as possible without destroying the character.
D)
To be fair, it was made by the people that would become Marvel Studios.
To be fair, Marvel could only suggest how the other studios handled their characters - they didn't have control. Marvel were not leading the line on Hulk like they did for The Incredible Hulk.
Kevin Feige, head of Marvel Studios, was executive producer on a lot of them. That's not a small job.
So you consider 2003 hulk in MCU continuity?
Not necessarily, but if it doesn't conflict, why not?
I use the same logic for Howard the Duck.
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 2 Excerpt:
SKYE This is getting really weird.
COULSON You think this is weird? Remind me to tell you about the talking extradimensional duck some time.
SKYE What??
COULSON The 80s were a strange time...
It actually does conflict, Glenn Talbot died in Hulk and is scheduled to appear in Agents of SHIELD
Just pointing out that it conflicts with what is considered canon is all.
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Its not a sequel, its a reboot. Tiny story details that people dont notice from the 2003 film dont count. One is Ang Lees, the other is part of the MCU. Plus the 2003 version made me dislike Hulk, similar to my reaction to Supes in Man of Steel.
I like the idea that 2003 Hulk is canon if for no other reason, is that Jennifer Connelly is part of MCU. Don't get me started on how much better she was as Betty than Liv Tyler.
Regardless, the 2003 hulk movie doesn't even exist in my mind. It is quite possibly the worst marvel movie ever. Maybe even further than that...it was a complete and utter disaster. I enjoyed Norton's banner/hulk, but something was still amiss. When Ruffalo gets his own feature, it will no doubt completely erase the other two from the minds of anyone who saw them. Can't wait.
I would consider it canon. as almost all sequels contradict something in the previous movies especially the xmen films. And I read somewhere some Disney CEO claimed that all the movies not owned by marvel were still part of the greater cinematic universe Spidey ff xmen, etc. The strings just aren't attached yet. And I heard ff and xmen are going back to marvel after the next batch of movies which would be so ever sweet. And I think that the 2 quick silvers and scarlet witches are the same people as xmen takes place in the 60s-70s I think and are clearly older in avengers 2.
I heard ff and xmen are going back to marvel after the next batch of movies which would be so ever sweet
Didn't you hear? Chris Jericho has already told us when we can hope to see Spider-Man/FF/X-Men with Marvel Studios.
I love you.
I would consider it canon. as almost all sequels contradict something in the previous movies especially the xmen films.
I doubt any blatant sequel film directly contradicts the origins like The Incredible Hulk does to the Hulk film. In Hulk, Banner was the result of paternal experimentation and psychological trauma. In TIH, Banner is recreating the super soldier serum of the 40s and (as Ross explains in the film) Banner thought he cracked it and tested it on himself through pure belief.
And I read somewhere some Disney CEO claimed that all the movies not owned by marvel were still part of the greater cinematic universe Spidey ff xmen, etc. The strings just aren't attached yet. And I heard ff and xmen are going back to marvel after the next batch of movies which would be so ever sweet.
I find this hard to believe, please find sources because I need to see this. So much of this makes no sense. I can see someone saying that these characters are like family because of their place in Marvel lore, but with the depth of the MCU, it's close to crazy to slot any event-notable superhero story as going even unmentioned in the MCU, or vice versa. How can people be so stunned in NY after a 'lizard attack' [The Amazing Spider-Man] when aliens attacked them [The Avengers] weeks before (no question of "is it alien related??") Let alone the mutant attack on the world leaders in the last decade [X-Men] and so much other stuff. Heck, what about the alien attack in Rise of the Silver Surfer? They're rebooting that - what contradictions will open up next? I like the idea, but it's just too much of a deal. The X-Men is a mess as it stands (although I read Singer is working to correct this).
And I think that the 2 quick silvers and scarlet witches are the same people as xmen takes place in the 60s-70s I think and are clearly older in avengers 2.
It looks to me like they are young and recent survivors of experimentation from the scene at the end of Cap 2, rather than veteran meta-beings from the 60s and 70s and I'm confident that Age of Ultron will conflict with whatever we see in Days of Future Past.
Feige did work on some of those movies before there was a Marvel Studios, but I doubt he said that. And those properties aren't going back to Marvel any time soon. That's the reason they made the reboots of the franchises: keep them out of Marvel's hands without spending too much money. And the actors between X-Men and Avengers aren't 40 years apart. In fact, the actor in X-Men is four years older than the actor in Avengers.
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