Pushing Back Against Transanity

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From the latest example of transanity in America to Canada's latest attack on religious freedoms, we've got you covered today. It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and president of Fire School of Ministry. Get into The Line of Fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. While the world is going crazy around us, we will ground our thinking. We will build our thinking on the rock of God's truth so we will not be moved. Instead, we'll renew our minds to what is true, to what is right, to what is pure, to what is holy, to what is good, to what is best. And we will shine our light together in dark places. Welcome, friends, to The Line of Fire. This is Michael Brown, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity, here to infuse you with faith, truth, courage, so you may stand strong in the Lord.

866-34-TRUTH, number to call, 866-348-7884. And friends, we're going to cover a lot of ground, but I want to encourage you that the tide is turning. I want to encourage you that change is rising. I want to encourage you that more and more people from wider and wider different backgrounds are coming together and saying something's wrong, something's wrong, we need to stand together and make things right. In fact, God willing, I'll be doing an interview with a woman who identifies as a man with sex change surgery, perfectly happy with me referring to her as her.

We're going to be doing an interview, this is, if you put us in a room together and talk about the Bible, talk about God, talk about homosexuality, we differ probably at every single point and on some passionately. We're absolutely coming together to warn against what is being done to children. I've been warning about it for years now, this individual sounding an alarm, raising her voice as someone who's lived through certain things and can shout out much more loudly than I can because of personal experience. We are saying, stop, stop for a second, children's lives are being destroyed, stop for a second. Things are out of control. Now on today's broadcast, we're going to talk about the latest example of transanity in America and then we're going to speak to someone in Canada about a bill that's just been passed.

Friends, you're going to be shocked when you hear this, all right? I'm not doing this to be alarmist, I'm doing this as a truth teller, I'm doing this as a watchman on the wall, I'm doing this as your voice. So helping to equip you but also expressing what you're feeling, articulating what's in your heart with the platforms that God's given us. By God's grace, we will continue to do that and I want to give you my pledge with his grace and help, I'm not backing down, I'm not shutting down, I'm not shutting up, I'm not getting more quiet, I'm speaking all the more loudly, all the more clearly and all the more full of grace and with the help of the Holy Spirit.

That's the goal, that's our heart, that is our intent. When I say transanity, I'm talking about the craziness of the society. I'm talking about transgender activism in its full-blown manifestation. For those who struggle with their own gender identity, for those who feel deeply conflicted in their own bodies, you are not my enemy, I'm not calling you crazy. I am saying what's happening to our society is crazy and for each individual, I ask this, would you agree that the very best would be God helping you from the inside out?

Would you agree? Would you agree that that's better than a lifetime on hormone supplements? That it's better than all kinds of surgeries? And even with the surgeries, the hormones, you will never fully be what you want to be. In other words, you can never go literally from male to female or female to male.

You cannot actually do that. You still have your DNA. You still have your thousands of genetic markers that say that you are male or female. You can go from male to female in certain ways, but you can't conceive a child as a female and on and on.

You go from female to male, but you cannot impregnate someone as a male. So wouldn't you agree that the best solution, especially for children, is to help them from the inside out? You say, well, why are you bringing this up again? Okay, let's look at the latest news.

Start with the article that I posted earlier this week. And my article was simply titled, why I'm not excited. No, I'm not excited to hear that a male swimmer is beating female swimmers. So this is the latest news. Will Thomas, who swam for several years for an Ivy League school, then COVID, things were shut down, now has come back for the same school, but as a female swimmer.

So Will now identifies as Leah. You say, well, doesn't that give him an unfair advantage? Uh-huh.

Well, what if he's on hormone supplements the other way and it reduces testosterone? Doesn't he still have an unfair advantage? Yes. Uh-huh. He does.

So what are the results of this biological male competing with biological females? So New York Post documented this. They just mistakenly, and I followed their quotes here, refer to meters, not yards, okay? Because NCAA uses yards, not meters.

Someone pointed that out to me on Facebook. So as documented in the New York Post, at a meet including Princeton and Cornell on November 20th, Thomas had a 1.43-47 time in the 200-meter freestyle and 4.35-06 in the 500-meter freestyle. So in these races, not only did he come in first, but he broke the Ivy League records. All right? Had he been competing against other men on the national level, he would have been way off the best times, with the record for 200 meters being 129.15 and the record for 500 meters being 407.97, that's from men. Women nationally, look at this, 10 seconds slower in 200 meters or 200 yards, 139.10 versus 129.15, and 500-meter record for women or 500 yards, 424.06 versus 407.97 for a man. All right, so you're talking about a big gap here.

To say it's unfair is not to be bigoted. Now here's another headline. This is now the Washington Times. Transgender swimmer, Leah Thomas, smashes women's records, Stokes, outrage. So there are more events over the weekend, I wrote my article, then there were more events over the weekend that Thomas participated in, all right?

So check this out. This is now a headline on Daily Mail from the last events on Sunday. The headline says, Fury, as transgender UPenn, University of Pennsylvania swimmer, 22, who used to compete as a man, smashes two US women's records in weekend competition and finishes one race 38 seconds ahead of her nearest rival. When do you hear of a contest with someone winning by 38 seconds? This is not a matter of fairness, this is a matter of insanity.

This is a, I mean, I give you endless series of analogies as to how unfair it is, but look at some of the details. Leah Thomas, actually Will, but it goes by the name of Leah now, smashed two US swimming records in an Akron, Ohio contest. Thomas won the 1650 freestyle in a record time of 1559-71, beating her, should say his closest rival, Anna Sofia Condazzi, by 38 seconds. Anna would have won the race, instead Anna comes in a distant, distant second.

Did you realize what 38 second difference is? So over the course of 16 minutes to get that far ahead, and this person was lower down, was not on the level one swimming team as a male, right? So when he was on the male swimming team, he was not on the top team, he was on a second string team. Now he's the world's fastest in college in America.

She should say he left rivals floundering in a 500 freestyle. Okay, this is only 500 yards, it's not that long, beating them by 14 seconds. And the university says, look at this, we're winning. What nonsense. It'd be like if Lebron James or Kevin Durant or some other NBA star now identified as a woman and started playing in the WNBA, they would smash every record for all time in a matter of weeks.

The first game they would smash every record of what's ever been done. Wow, isn't that amazing for the women, that's not for the women, it's against the women. This is direct assault on women. This is direct assault on women's integrity and women's rights and all the work that's been done for so many years with Title IX to develop women's sports in schools.

All the work that's been done over the years to have equality for women, build this up, now you destroy it all. And you're telling me, you think you swim, so the other woman swims over 16 minutes, 30 seconds. That's an exhausting, long swim, right, Kit? I'm not a swimmer, but I can't imagine the shape you have to be in. And obviously you need a competitive drive to push you to work harder, day in, day out, year in, year out, to get to your very competitive best, to be crushed by a male?

So let's just see a couple other notes from the bullet points of the Daily Mail article. Thomas previously competed for the school's men's team for three years before joining the women's team, her, should say his. Last men's competition was November 2019, so you're talking about two years ago, was racing and swimming as a male. Some have voiced their anger at her, should say his, swimming success, claiming to be quote unfair, and many refuse to refer to her as a woman for good reason. He is not a woman. He will never be a woman. He may identify as a woman, he may believe he's a woman, but he is not a woman. He will never be a woman.

NCAA rules dictate any trans female athlete can take part in women's events if they have completed a year of testosterone suppression treatment. Okay, as you know, I'm not a medical doctor. I'm not a scientist.

I don't pretend to be, but I can tell you this, there's no mystery here. It doesn't matter that there's testosterone suppression. This person, the way he is built, the way he is made, has a biological advantage over females, period.

And that's why he was a male swimmer, but not the best, not, not, not on the first team as a male swimmer. And now he's doing things that have never been done in the Ivy League. Smashing records, destroying records. And this is supposed to be a cause for celebration? Wow. What an accomplishment and let's cheer on the trans community. No, let's think about the women for a minute here. Let's help will Leah Thomas find wholeness from the inside out and fulfill his destiny as a man, as God created him.

Let's help him there and pray for him there. But let's talk about the women here. This is unfair. This is blatant discrimination against women. This is trans sanity, period. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm about to break down some records, male records versus female records. This is really eye-opening and it gives a lot of insight into the conflict over co-transgender athletes participating in other sports, so a male to female. And by the way, you're not going to see a lot of female to male sports, are you?

Where someone who's a biological female now quote transitions to male and wants to participate in male sports, that's going to be less likely just because of biology. 866-34-TRUTH if you want to weigh in, 866-34-87-884. Before I get into this, if we've helped you, been a blessing to you, strengthened you, played an important role in your own life, in your own walk with God, in your own life for ministry, then stand with us at the end of the year and help us help others. Help us reach more and help us focus on the things we need to focus on, not being concerned about bills for radio and bills for ministry outreach we do around the world and bills for the Jewish work we do around the world, but rather give ourselves to the work itself as you help us pay those bills and help us help others.

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As we come to the end of the year, we'll remind you, but thank you for standing with us. Okay. I wrote an article 2019, March 2019, titled The Pushback Against Transanity Is Coming From The Left. The Pushback Against Transanity Is Coming From The Left. And I want to go through that article with you and some of the data that's in it. I note that we all know that the best male athletes are faster and stronger than the best female athletes.

This is Biology 101, not Advanced Rocket Science. Still, it was striking for me to see the disparity between the fastest mile run by a man, 343.3 by Hicham El-Garouji, and this is decades back, I mean, he was a phenom, and the fastest mile run by a woman, 412.56 by Svetlana Masterkova. I had no idea. You're just talking about a mile, and yet the fastest woman is 30 seconds behind the fastest man, almost 34 seconds.

It's remarkable. So check this out, already 1965, 1965, Jim Ryan set a world record for high school students by running a mile in 355.3, a record that is still 17 seconds faster than the top female athlete in the world has ever run. Digest that, 1965, in high school, Jim Ryan ran 355.3. The world's fastest woman, the top female miler in the world, is still 17 seconds behind what a high school male did in 1965, and in fact, every year, God knows how many hundreds, thousands of men, young men in high school are smashing the fastest record by the world's fastest female miler. So I asked the question, what would happen if a top male runner identified as female?

He'd instantly shatter all female records, and that would be totally unfair to these women who've trained so hard and sacrificed so much for so many years. That's why it's not surprising that female athletes, including Martina Navratilola, a prominent lesbian, and Sharon Davies, a British Olympic swimmer, have raised their voices to cry foul. In response, Navratilola came under fierce attacks from others in the LGBTQ community, forcing her to backtrack from initial comments and apologize for calling trans athletes cheats. This prompted Piers Morgan, hardly a defender of the right, and over the years a steady ally to gay activism, to come to her defense. And speaking of Serena Williams, arguably the greatest women's tennis player of all time, he wrote that it's not sexist to say the top thousand men would beat Serena, meaning in tennis.

It's a cold-heart statistical fact. So Morgan said, imagine a scenario where a 25-year-old male player ranks say number 200 in the world and earning around 100,000 a year, suddenly decides he wants to identify as a female, either for gender and transgender reasons or for duplicitous, fraudulent, cynically commercial reasons, and now wants his to compete against women. That player, if he underwent hormonal treatment to reduce his testosterone levels to the required levels and could spend the next three to four years playing as a woman on the women's tour, he now she would instantly be the best female tennis player that's ever lived.

She would destroy Serena Williams and every other women player. And this is Piers Morgan. Remember when I was on Piers Morgan years ago, he was confronting me about homosexual issues and I was able to push back with what the word said. So March 10th, since 2019, headline on the UK publication Telegraph announced two thirds of British public think it's cheating for women born male to compete in women's sports.

Well, yeah, duh, exactly. And if the people are sincere and they really believe they're female, okay, they're not intentionally cheating, but they have an unfair advantage. Finally, so radical feminists have raised their voices to protest the idea that a biological male who identifies as a woman is now legitimately female devoting an entire book to the subject. The book is titled female erasure with a forward by feminist icon, Germaine Greer, who would militantly oppose some of the things I hold to and believe Greer wrote men who adopt femininity may believe that they are achieving femaleness, but femaleness is a tougher destiny than they can know or guess. Femaleness is demanding and painful, whether at men arc, I'm mispronouncing that probably menstruation, childbed or menopause and born women have no choice but to deal with it. Femininity is a D sex masquerade. Men can be as good at it and better than women, but that does not make them women.

How about this? lesbian feminist Julia Beck testified before Congress against the gender identity provisions in the Violence Against Women Act meant to protect transgender people. These provisions actually act as a misogynistic Trojan horse undermining key protections for women and girls, and Beck herself recalled facing threats of violence due to her opposition to transgender activism. She said people on the left have tried to silence me by using threats and other tactics of intimidation, a kind of hatred that most lesbians would expect to receive from people on the right.

I've been told to die in a fire to get raped and to choke on Lady blank by members of the GBT community. So not only does the left turn on its own the moment one of its sacred cows is threatened, but those on the left with eyes to see have no choice but to speak out. Transanity is undoing their entire movement. That's why it's not surprising that the influential gay journalist Andrew Sullivan has also raised his voice. So Sullivan, if you abandon biology and the matter of sex and gender altogether, you undermine the very meaning of homosexuality. He said, if you follow the current ideology of gender is entirely fluid, you actually subvert and undermine core arguments in defense of gay rights seems in the transgender activism is undermining feminism, undermining the gay rights movement and undermining common sense. The unraveling is at hand.

Mother nature can be quite stubborn and dogmatic. On the other side of the break, we come back in a few minutes. We're not at the break yet, but when we come back to the next segment, I'm going to be speaking with gentlemen from Canada who's going to tell us about something very, very alarming. In fact, as I look at the press release parliament passes most extreme counseling ban anywhere in the world.

What? So we're going to come back to that in a moment, but in 2004, 2004, when God began to lay on my heart, the, the, the effects of gay activism, where it was going, I saw immediately that gay activism trans was part of it, it wasn't as prominent then the gay activism was the principal threat to freedom of religion, speech, and conscience in America already in 2004, I saw that a colleague of mine in 2003 formed a ministerial coalition for this very reason. He saw the same thing. It's only recently we found out that we both dove in about the same time by the calling and burden of the Lord. And immediately as, as I really prayed and thought about these things, I said, okay, I see the issues, but what about the people? I need God's heart for the people. I made appointments to meet with, with local gay leaders just to talk and hear their heart.

I read everything I could read. Those who said we, we, we tried to change and couldn't, those who said they were gay Christians. I have a large library of books, you know, gay commentaries in the bottom, all these kinds of things to do my best to develop a heart of love and compassion for those with whom I differed and those whose agenda I so deeply resisted and rejected. And what God laid in my heart in early 2005 was this word, reach out and resist, reach out to the people with compassion, resist the agenda with courage. And that has fueled the fires of what we've done these many years in the early days.

And for some years friends were like, Mike, what are you doing? Why are you wasting your time with this? Why are you getting off track? Who cares about this?

This is not an issue. And my response developed into this. I feel like an umbrella salesman in the desert and people are saying to me, why are you manufacturing so many umbrellas? Why are you building more warehouses to store more umbrellas?

And I'd smile and say, cause a big storm's coming and you're going to need these. Now you can't make them umbrellas fast enough because the storm has overtaken the nation and twisted our very thinking right up through the White House. And remember it was President Obama that lit the White House up in rainbow colors in celebration of the Supreme Court's outrageous redefinition of marriage six years ago. So friends, the wake up call has been issued for many, many years and many were issuing it well before I was. Now is the time to rise up as the pushback continues, reaching out to people with the love of God, with the grace of God, with the goodness of God, with the kindness of God, with great patience, while resisting this very dangerous and destructive agenda. Now you know what we do what we do.

We'll be right back. Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire, 866-344-TRUTH, the number to call. Years back when James Dobson was leading focus on the family, he would do a broadcast in America and he would talk plainly about the Bible, homosexual practice, maybe talk about issues that we were facing in society or legislation or things like that. And it would air all over America. But when it came to the Canadian broadcast, they could not air it in Canada because it would have been shut down and focus on the family would have had trouble because of that. In other words, Canada for many, many years now, for decades, has been more aggressive in pushing back against Christian freedoms, against various moral viewpoints having to do with homosexuality and the redefining of marriage. And Canada continues to be pushing in a very, very dangerous way. And now a bill has been pushed through. I know Canadian leaders, pastors have been fighting against this for some time. But now something's happened, a very important development. I'm going to do my best to shout it out to the world and to draw attention to it. But joining me now is Jojo Ruba or Jose Ruba. He is the executive director of Faith Beyond Belief and he is also a member of the Equal Rights Institute's board of directors. Jose, Jojo, which do you prefer? Jojo is fine, Dr. Brown. Thank you so much for letting me speak with you today.

Yes. Well, thank you for coming out on short notice. First, just tell us a little about yourself and Faith Beyond Belief so we get a bigger picture of who you are. Well, Faith Beyond Belief is a Christian apologetics ministry that we started here in Canada precisely because of what you said. We are much, much more, I don't want to use the word progressive, much more aggressive in our revisionism of cultural, Judeo-cultural Christian values.

And so we realize as Christians, the part of the problem was we don't have training in the church on how to engage on these tough issues that is winsome, that is an ambassador like a Second Corinthians 5-20 said. But the ministry that I'm representing here is actually Free to Care, which is a group we started because earlier this year and late last year, my own municipal government in Calgary went from past to conversion therapy ban that was unlike any other ban anywhere else outside of Canada. So conversion therapy is one of the big political goals for the LGBT activists. And one of the things they've done is they've made it a prominent fight where they empathize with people who've survived so-called conversion therapy. And this is meant to be, and there's movies like this, a counseling where you torture someone or force someone to change from gay to straight.

That's the mindset that most people have. But the definition that my city used is so broad, it's actually a bylaw now, that it actually bans simply behavioral counseling, even if you're not trying to change your orientation. So if you were to go to get a counselor to say, I have a gay porn addiction and I want to reduce that gay porn addiction because it's a non-heterosexual behavior, that would be captured under the bylaw of our city. And when we pointed this out, we were maligned, we were attacked, we were saying this is not how it's going to be applied. The problem is we just have to go back to the wording of the bylaw. So we managed to organize the largest response to any municipal bylaw, anytime across our province here in Alberta.

We had several hundred people come. And in fact, I think they extended the amount of time people could submit things because we were so well organized. Now, the bylaw passed, and here's what's happened now. So when someone can go to a counselor, if they're seeking to reduce their sexual behavior, one of the first things the counselor has to do is ask if it's heterosexual or non-heterosexual behavior that they have to reduce, because if it's heterosexual behavior, they can get all the support they want, but if it's non-heterosexual behavior, they can't get that support anymore at risk of paying a $10,000 fine for that counselor or for the organization hosting that.

So let's just clarify a few things. Every one of us would sign a bill in a heartbeat that prevents anyone from being forced into trying to change from gay to straight, in particular, if it involved abusive practices. And I know Christian counselors and secular counselors around America and other countries that have been helping people with unwanted same-sex attractions for decades, and every one of them would say, of course, we renounce this. But we're not talking about anybody being forced. We're not talking about a parent kidnapping a child from somewhere and sending them to some camp to be deprogrammed or reprogrammed.

We would all stand against that. We're talking about someone, let's just say you have a man, all right? He's 25 years old. He was sexually abused when he was a boy. He found himself confused over his sexualities. He grew up, he ended up finding himself attracted to men, lived that way for some years, gets radically born again, reads the Bible, and says, you know, I don't feel this is the way God created me.

I don't believe this is right for me. You're saying that as an adult, he would not be able to go even to a secular counselor who would help him sort these things out? Well, that's one of the reasons why I got active in this, because I was never sexually abused, but that is my story as well. When I was in university, I realized I was attracted to someone in my Bible study group, and it was a men's Bible study group. And I was thinking, you know, I'm a pastor's kid, why would you let this happen to me, God?

And I thankfully was part of the Christian club on campus, asked for a phone number for a local Christian counselor, and the staff worker at the club gave me the phone number for a local Christian counselor. And, you know, in terms of that, he didn't remove all my same-sex attractions right away, but he really gave me an understanding that I feel is so critical for this debate, which is that sexual attractions are something that you have, they are not something that you are. But I did not have to identify with those attractions.

I could manage them, I didn't have to behave a certain kind of way, and I've been single and celibate, I haven't acted on those feelings, and I've never actually identified as gay, even though I have these attractions. So that's my story, and I actually never shared that publicly until this thing happened in my city earlier this year, and even my parents didn't know about it. But I realized this was such a critical debate because other young people, exactly like you said, Dr. Brown, are losing that same opportunity for support, because absolutely, it doesn't matter if it's a consenting or non-consenting adult, it doesn't matter if it's a consenting child. In Canada, you can get married at 16 years old, as long as you get your parents' permission, but under this law, you can't get counseling to reduce non-heterosexual behavior that you may want to reduce at 16 years old. So imagine if you go to, even if you're wanting to get same-sex married, you can get married at 16 to someone of the same sex. But if your pastor or your rabbi counsels you in that marriage counseling and says you can't have sex outside of your marriage, wouldn't that be reducing non-heterosexual behavior through that counseling, which would technically be conversion therapy under the definition used in the city of Calgary?

But what's worse, so this has passed, and I can tell you again, because this is my own personal experience, I was able to call local counselors here, secular counselors, asking them what to do with this law, and most of them had no idea about the breadth of this law. But when we were able to explain it to them, and we called at least a dozen counselors here and psychiatrists, they would say something like, well, you can come in to help reduce your porn addiction, but you can't mention it's a gay porn addiction because we can't help you with that. And I said, well, do you have the same kind of restrictions for people who come in with straight porn addictions?

And obviously the answer was no. And think of this, and again, I only mentioned someone being abused because you think all the more that person is a victim, there's trauma back in their lives, that's why I even brought that up. So even in that case where a psychologist or a psychiatrist would say, well, let's go back and look at trauma in your life, well, you can't.

Let's flip this around. Let's say there's somebody who always thought they were straight, but now they're starting to wonder, boy, I've always had these feelings, but you know, I've got these religious hangups and because of it, I think it's wrong for me to act out. So I want to see a counselor who will help me embrace my gay identity. That would be legal, right? You could go theoretically from straight to gay, theoretically, right?

Completely legal, that's right. What about someone, what about a kid or an adult who is struggling with gender confusion? Does that fall under this as well? Yes, gender confusion is particularly mentioned, especially for young people. So what's happened now, Dr. Brown, is that we're no longer looking at municipal law, which the biggest fine would be a $10,000 fine. The Parliament of Canada has now passed, the House of Commons has now passed a criminal law where you could go to jail for five years for counseling a child, even if that child wants to get counseling. So imagine your seven year old granddaughter comes to you and she says, I think I'm a boy. Can you help me get counseling? And you bring that child to counseling.

You could go to jail for five years for doing that, even if the child requested that help. So the only kind of support a gender confused child could get is to affirm that gender confusion. All right.

So, so let's, let's lay this out. Your parents, you've got a daughter who's nine years old. She says, I really think I'm a boy. I believe I'm a boy. You have all these discussions with her.

Okay. So you can go to a counselor. The counselor can say, yes, we affirm she has gender dysphoria. She's really he. You should now send her to school as him dressed as a boy. And in another couple of years, we're going to put him on hormone blockers to stop the onset of puberty.

And then we were around 18. Let's talk about mastectomy and all of these things. That's perfectly fine and legal. But if this kid's saying I'm conflicting and we say, well, let's try to get you counseling so you're at home in your own body.

That's illegal. Yeah. The wording for the federal bill specifically says any practice treatment or service designed to repress or reduce non-cisgender gender identity or gender expression. So any kind of practice, consider how vague that is. In some denominations, you have a treatment or a practice that you usually engage in. A service could be a prayer service, right? And in terms of all kinds of practices that we would have in the church, that would definitely include pastoral counseling.

So the kind of practice that they're trying to get goes to the heart of their real goal, which is to say we cannot say that any kind of practice or any kind of sexual behavior outside of the heterosexual marriage is wrong. In fact, let me just, if I could, let me read you the preamble to the bill in Bill C-6. Yeah, tell you what, I'm just going to jump in because we've got a break coming up. All right?

Of course. We come back, we're going to do this. And then I want to talk about how this affects religious freedoms in Canada. I mean, it's already affecting someone's ability for self-determination and a doctor-client privilege of saying, hey, here are areas I'd like help in and like to change. I mean, this bill is criminal, but we come back, we're going to dig in a little deeper and then find out what can be done. What can be done?

We knew this was coming. There's been resistance to it. Now, suddenly like a flood, this thing has gone through. I'll continue to shout and continue to draw attention, write, do everything I can, but what else can be done?

We'll be right back. It's the Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Friends, there's a reason we have been sounding the alarm for years. There's a reason since 2004, we have been saying those who come out of the closet want to put us in the closet. Yes, in their mind, fighting for equality, tolerance, freedom, but ultimately so-called being inclusive means utter exclusivity for those with other views.

Being tolerant means absolute intolerance. We're seeing a direct assault on freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, freedom of the right to self-determine one's life, a direct assault in Canada right now. So back to Jose, go ahead and read the preamble, and then I want to ask you some very specific questions about how this will affect clergy in Canada.

Absolutely. Well, again, the preamble will help inform those. The preamble technically isn't the legal part of it, but it informs the rest of the law. This is their understanding.

You can see right away why this is so harmful. It says, whereas conversion therapy causes harm to society because, among other things, it is based on and propagates myths and stereotypes about sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression, including the myth that heterosexuality, cisgender, gender identity and gender expression that conforms to the sex assigned to a person at birth are to be preferred over sexual orientations, gender identities and gender expressions or other gender identity. So if you believe that, for example, God made male and female for marriage and that is the only place for sexuality, you would be violating this preamble, Dr. Brown.

That's what they're trying to say here. We cannot say that homosexuality is now wrong. And you know, there are cases documented years, decades back, with Catholic priests who were banned for life from communicating publicly because they made these very statements. This isn't going on, and we've asked the question, will Canada ban the Bible?

When California almost passed a similar bill, we asked the same thing. Well, ban the Bible, because if you say, well, just read the Bible, the Bible lays these things out. So we're not, this is not two people with no knowledge of what's happening, screaming the sky is falling. This is people with knowledge of what's happening say this is worse than you realize. OK, so by implication, let's say you are a denominational leader, you're a bishop over your denomination, and you do a series of teaching, of teachings on sexuality and marriage, and you get a number of people in your church come, they're tithing members, and as members of the church, they can get professional counseling within the church, and you have pastoral counseling and people who specialize in things, and they come and say, OK, God's convicted me, I need change here or there, I realize this gay relationship is not right in God's sight, etc.

But what can happen to them under this bill? Does this fall under the heading of professional or not? Yes, well, it absolutely does, because it actually makes no distinction, Dr. Brown, between professional or just pastoral counseling or even just friends talking, because the bill also has what's called the promotion and advertising clause. And so remember when I shared my story, I got a phone number from a local Christian counselor from my friend, giving me that phone number is considered promotion.

So if a pastor is preaching and saying, we have a prayer service tonight where we can have people who want to reduce their sexual behavior, homosexual tendencies, or we have a Bible study that covers this, or you can come to get counseling at 6 p.m. tonight, if you want to sign up to get counseling to help you reduce your gay porn addiction or your gender confusion, that is promoting or advertising, and you can go to jail for two years. Friends, let me say it again. There's a reason we have been shouting this from the rooftops. OK, so the situation in Canada is different than America in a few ways. Americans tend to be more feisty and fighting and the independence thing. And so there's a difference in personality. But conservative Christians in America make up a larger part of the population than in Canada.

It's a smaller number and not always the fighting spirit in America, which can be a good spirit or a bad spirit. What happens here? What can be done? If there's a call for all pastors to stand and just preach on this on Sundays or all counselors to refuse, I mean, that'd be a wonderful thing to see happen. But is there anything that can be done legislatively in the courts? Well, right now it hasn't passed through the Senate. We were actually expecting it to pass today. And I didn't mention earlier what happened with the conservatives, where they actually bypassed all, they agreed with the rest of the parties in Parliament to bypass public hearings and all the normal steps you would follow to pass a bill. They skipped all of that and have sent it completely to our Senate, which is an unelected body unlike in the U.S. And we were expecting that they were going to do the same thing. But it looks like, and we're praying for it as we speak, that they're going to let witnesses come in, at least some of the experts share. So there's still time if you're in Canada to write to your senator and ask him or her to allow for public hearings and to reconsider the wording of this bill.

As I said, I looked at the United Nations definition, the medical association, the psychological associations in North America. No other group has this kind of definition of conversion therapy. And the key here is that it's going to be weaponized against the church because it's complaint-based, Dr. Brown. So anyone can complain against the church, even if it's false complaints, and because it's criminal law in Canada, it must be investigated by the RCMP. So what I'm urging pastors, church leaders to realize is if you don't take a stand now, someone will go after you if you can maintain a biblical worldview. And sadly, Dr. Brown, what's actually happening is pastors themselves are self-censoring.

I heard the other day that I'm sure your audience is familiar with Nancy Piercy, who wrote a brilliant book, Love Thy Body. Apparently when she speaks at Christian churches here, pastors have already been going through her speech and censoring parts of it so they don't violate the conversion therapy laws in their town. The reason I've said for years that we're being censored by the world is because we have been self-censoring. And even if not as aggressively in that way, we just avoid certain topics because they're too controversial.

And so all we do is further sink our ship, further hurt our children and grandchildren. And let me say this, you're on the front lines, you know this, but when I'm asked to speak at a church, a few months ago, a church of about 6,000 had me come in and just spend a weekend talking about human sexuality and God's design, especially focusing on transgender issues, obviously with compassion for the people, but then dealing with the larger activist agenda. I did it Friday night for young adults and then two services Sunday morning, then Sunday night Q&A.

After every meeting, there was a line of people wanting to talk to me, many of them in tears, everyone with a personal story that touched their lives. The church is called to serve these people. When I'm talking about political activism, we're talking about the church called to serve and help people who are hurting and here we can't, no you can't, you can't give them the best solution.

You can't help them from the inside out. All you can do is either be silent or affirm something you know is wrong or destructive. And I could just add, I think part of the key issue that we want, even sharing my testimony publicly for the first time, is we need to remember that we are the good guys. We have good news to share and we've internalized the culture's hatred of us and hatred of the gospel to say that maybe we're the bad guys. But if we could just rephrase what Augustine and Gandhi said, right, when they said we have to hate the sin but love the sinner, what if we phrased it this way? We have to hate the sin because we love the sinner. And what this really indicates to me is the church really doesn't love their LGBTQ neighbors because they're not fighting for them.

They're not fighting to give good news to them. And that's why I'm doing this. That's why I shared my testimony, even though this has been so really hard to publicly talk about, Dr. Brown, because I realized, well, that's the whole story of the incarnation. Jesus took on our identity as human beings so that he can give us a new identity as a forgiven child of God. And that's the gospel message, is it not? In a culture that says we are defined by who we love, the gospel says we're defined by who loves us.

Yes. And that's the message we have to keep sharing with people. And every one of us, even on our holiest day, every one of us is still a work in progress.

We have been saved, we are being saved, we will be finally saved. And, you know, Jose, I know people that dramatically, even supernaturally, were literally changed from gay to straight. They had a supernatural experience. I know others over many, many years, counseling, digging deep, went from homosexual relations to heterosexual relations. And I know others that said, hey, I say no to these desires.

They've been lessened. They don't define who I am. And as you said, living a celibate life for the Lord. In other words, you're not claiming to be anything other than what you are, which is a work in progress saying, I agree with God, therefore, every day, every one of us is called every day to deny ourselves, right?

And then to pursue holiness in every area of life, which we continue to grow into. So God bless you for your honesty and candor here. And listen, you've got allies here in the States, more than you realize, we'll do our best to shout this out. I plan to write on this and get it out to all of our outlets in the next 24 to 48 hours. And of course, we've done this broadcast.

We'll do our best to shout it out. But here's the deal. The church always has to go against the grain. The church always has to do what's right. It may well be that to do what's right now, there's going to be a penalty in prison. And that may be the thing that wakes up the church.

It'd be a whole lot better if we could just wake up without that having to happen. So may God continue to give you courage, wisdom, strength. May he turn the hearts of many in Canada. Hey, appreciate your time and effort. May God be with you. All right. Well thank you so much, Jose.

Much appreciated. Hey, can we just pray for a minute? Lord, strengthen our brother on the front line. Strengthen him with greater courage and resolve. Continue to work in his life and Lord, strengthen those standing with him. May a voice of courage come.

I know those who've been standing, but they're the minority. May a voice of courage come and spread through Canada. May there be awakening in the church that literally changes the laws for good. In Jesus' name. Amen. All right, friends.

We didn't take any calls or even attempt to get calls today. But in 15 minutes, I'm going to be over on YouTube. That's Ask Dr. Brown YouTube channel, A-S-K-D-R Brown on YouTube, taking all your questions. So join me there in 15 minutes. We'll have an awesome time together. Another program powered by the Truth Network.