An unofficial community for and by users of REAPER, the digital audio workstation software by Cockos Inc.
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REAPER has the most impressive routing capabilities of any DAW I have tried. Software drums can require many tracks and more complex routing.
I’m working on a end-all template that I would like to support every major software. So far, I am happy with my MT Power, SSD4/5 and Kontakt integrations. But I know there are many others.
What drum software do you use with REAPER? Anything special, or any limitations, in your use of it that you want to share? Thanks!
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Honestly I just use Sitala. (Drum machine guy, electronic drums) It's free and it just kinda works
NI Battery is also good.
(no im not steven)
Do you find yourself rerouting often, probably when you reassign or choose different samples and drum types? Or is everything pretty set in stone?
I have a track template set up for it so it's pretty set and forget
track template you say
i’m gonna look into that thanks 🙏
Yeah track templates are great in general, but they are a must when you are talking about drum/beat setups. I use Atlas for my beats. I have maybe 6-7 track templates for Atlas. All but 2 of them are multi-out, custom routed templates. With aux effects channels at the ready, multiple busses, etc.. One click now. Even less if you have one in your default song.
I'm sure they're all pretty good but I got Addictive Drums and love it. I suffer from having no rhythm whatsoever so I bought some of the groove packs as well and it has been life changing to think "I wish it could sound like this..." and pull up AD, sort by the genre, then by tempo, then mix and match beats/fills and drop it into my project for my final tweaks to the pattern. It has actually helped me finish songs vs abandoning or turning them into acoustic only tracks.
I use this also and am still learning new ways to search/filter through all the loops and fills that are available. The grid search is an interesting way to do it.
Building beats from scratch is tedious and time although I am going to have to start learning that soon. I'm just working with a laptop and mouse but I think the next step is to start "Recording/peforming" my drum beats right on my qwerty keyboard.
I use Addictive Drums as well, and yes building beats from scratch is very tedious. But there is a much easier way to build your drum tracks. When browsing through the beats you can drag and drop the beat that you like or that closely fits your song. Then edit them that way. Much faster. You can even take bits and pieces and blend them together. Once you get a system in place you can throw drums at a song in 20-30 minutes, if that.
Nice I have toyed around a bit with drag/drop the loop then double click it to edit it. This def seems like the way to go. Some of the fills are so good that I know I wouldn't be able to program them myself haha
The next step is learning what all that crap on the "edit" screen does
Superior Drummer 3. Natural progression from SD2.
At the time I was in a band and used to have a lot of conversations with the drummer, so I appreciated the depth of control that SD gives you.
SD3 is perhaps a bit too deep. Easy to get lost in it. It's also not cheap.
I feel somewhat sheepish giving you any tips as I am the one learning from you in general.
There’s always more to learn! Hopefully I only rant on the topics I feel confident in. Thank you for the nice words.
Superior is the next program to do after the freebies for sure, I won’t avoid the inevitable.
REAPER allows for max 64 channels of audio per track. My SSD breakdown uses all 64, a 12 chunk dedicated to 6 stereo rooms from SSD.
What parts of Superior do you find yourself wanting to be separate, or the opposite, prefer them combined? For example, I like my cymbal types all separate, not just a stereo “Overheads” track. But, my kick and snare samples are always summed, with their room sample and/or inside/outside mic combos.
I'm not who you asked, but IME Superior is best used like a real miced drum set. Since it's samples are pretty raw, I would never want my kick and snares summed for example, as I would process a bottom snare very differently than a top snare. My default Superior template has all the mics sent the separate tracks, and grouped into like a "Snare Bus" and "Kick Bus" and so on, and then all goes into a drum bus.
My bad, I should have described that I meant my sample samples, the cannon gunshot sounds you’d layer under a more realistic snare. Those have mic splits as well in SSD, but it’s just unnecessary work to process the supersnare and the superroom separately.
I probably do the same thing you do with the more realistic kit parts. It takes all 64 channels for me, due mainly to the extra room sounds available and doing cymbal splits. Do you individually split up your different rooms, cymbals/overheads or toms?
Ohh OK I see. I don't really use those kinda samples much so I wasn't thinking of that.
To answer your questions: I rarely use all the room sounds offered at once, but if I use multiple I always split them out to process separately, e.g. leave one relatively normal sounding for a regular room sound and then absolutely obliterate the other one with compression/distortion. I never really split my cymbals, I leave them as a stereo overhead and mix them like I would real overheads. I do split up my toms.
Take my comments here with a grain of salt though, in recent times I've used Superior mostly for drum replacement and to flesh out demos, so it's been a while since I actually mixed a fully programmed drum track to completion.
The thing is, about the room sounds, you should look at them again. A close mic snare with a convolution reverb is not the same as a mic across the room from the snare. Getting that true far away sound will never be possible by close mic'ing something and putting a reverb on it. This is the problem with bedroom recordings and where a nice sounding studio shines. Anyway, those room mics on superior are worth looking at.
Man the thing that annoys me is that they say it is unprocessed drums. Toontrack are lying. If you've ever micd a kit in a real drum booth you'll immediately be able to tell that the superior drums are processed like fuck. Out the gate, you can mix superior drums into a track with zero processing. Load a standard kit, do nothing else and it will sit in a track just fine. Regular drums dont work like that. They made those drums very tidy. Full fat snare cracks, tight bottom end on kicks and floor toms with zero low end mess. Sharp focused cymbals. Bro, a real unprocessed kit doesnt sound like that. You can so obviously hear the compression and the eq work is noticable. All that said, it's a good product, but when they promote it as unprocessed drums it is fake news.
Yea I know they're not truly unprocessed, but compared to other drum software I've used like SSD they still come across much drier to me. I personally don't mind, the processing they've done feels relatively unobtrusive to me. A dry Superior snare sounds tighter and cleaner than any real snare I've recorded but not super colored, it just gets rid of some of the more boring mix work. The last time I used SSD the snare already felt like a cannon out of the box.
It's not about coloration as much as being able to do more stuff. I have some things I like to do with compression on a snare, I cant do those things because they've already been compressed and compression can't be undone.
I guess it's not meant for engineers and more geared towards bedroom musicians who don't know how to handle truly unprocessed drums. I wish they gave us the option to install the truly raw files, if we wanted. I understand that kids with logic is probably their target demographic because that's where the money is. Anyway, different tiers would be nice... I'd pay $1,000 for a true unprocessed kit that's already mapped, has tons of velocity levels, and is ready to go.
Edit: and compression really does add coloration and can change the tone of stuff as drastically as eq.
I have a few templates largely depending on the depth of work that I need to go into.
They vary primarily in the detail that the audio tracks are split into.
For example, for one, I have every mic with its own channel. Total craziness for when I need to, or feel like, being detailed. On the opposite side of the spectrum I have it all coming out of just 1/2. I use his when I am making loops that typically get chopped up and processed for other genres.
I also have a few that are inbetween. So instead of 3 channels for the 3 kick mics, they all output to one channel. Same for the snare. I have variations for floor toms and rack toms, and also for all toms combined. The internal mixer within SD3 is a real help here, as you get a lot of power and control with that alone.
Combined with Reaper's efficiency and track/project templates means you can generate a whole slew of setups you can use depending on the project.
Interestingly enough, I find I don't often go to my completely split up template that often at all. It's a ton of work, and clients and normal people simply cannot tell the difference with the end results.
That could well be my shoddy mixing skills though lol, I have much to learn on that front.
I tend to build the kit I want per project. So for a one-off commission, going balls to the wall is really inefficient. Plugs like SD3 and SSD5 were made by people who really know their stuff, so the presets are very good indeed. I might pick a preset kit, but disable the internal mixing plugins so I can mix it in Reaper instead.
For a personal album that I might do, then I will meticulously pick out the pieces that I like and the perfect routing I want to use for the whole album.
One thing, though, is that I don't pay near as much attention to splitting overheads and having room mics as you do. As I lack experience here, I rely on the experience of the people that put SD3 together. Maybe I need to pay more attention to this.
Well.. I am gonna stop now, I think I tried to answer your question but ended up somewhere else haha.
Fear not, I loved the deep dive! Thank you.
In my efforts to build a template that can do both of those things, multi split and an all - 1/2 track, I have seen strengths for both.
Esp with electronic kits that I would use for build-ups, transitions and the like, working on a split version is ironic for how small a part in the song it will be. So I train myself to use the stereo mix at those times.
With great power comes great confusion.
I bought Addictive drums 2 because it was on offer and so far, it's pretty solid. Can't really complain about anything just yet because I've not had it too long but I find it quite creative and some of the grooves have been good to noodle ideas with.
It works well on REAPER and fits nicely with my workflow
Feel free to ask me questions though, I'll try to fill you in
What drew you to Addictive over other “larger”, more marketed options? Addictive isn’t as popular, but I don’t think that has anything to do with sound probably. Curious. Thank you!
It was a bit cheaper than EZdrummer2 and it came with 3 drum packs that I could choose. I felt that EZ drummer was sold on its groove library whereas Addictive was more forward on the sound designing front which I think suites me more as I like making my own grooves (although I have used some midi packs in small projects as starting points)
Reading your reply and a few other AD users on here, I see it’s value more clearly now. Thank you!
I also use AD, bought it for the same reasons listed already. There may be software that has more versatility in tuning and micing options, but I've been able to get very realistic sounds, which is my main focus. I got a Sonar kit, and never downloaded the other two kits included as I'm able to cover what I need from that one, but there's a lot of great kits available, and of course three are included, your choice. Great bang for the buck. I use an old drum machine to create beats so haven't used any midi packs, and the sound options are versatile, although I know others have more variables available. (E.G. you can't use separate channels for top and bottom snare mics, just a blend between them, but the sounds are good, so it hasn't been a real limitation)
XLN Audio runs half off sales about three times a year, so it was pretty cheap on Black Friday a few years ago. I'm not an advanced user, but it sounds good to me.
I also bought Addictive Keys Studio Grand at the same time, and I adore that one. Using both is just one installer to deal with.
I also didn't have Kontakt, yet, which it looked like most of the other options required.
MT Power Drums and SSD Free.
I will also use a Roland and old, old ( 1997 vintage ) Alesis synths for specific things.
MT’s kick, though basically a one-shot, cuts through any mix I put it on. For better or worse.
Yep. I'm primarily using these for idea sketches; the theory is that I'd replace them with real drums should the need arise. Or not.
Kontakt - Studio Drummer pack. Not perfect, but a damn good bit of kit for demoing or even mid-level releases.
Kontakt has been the most PITA, but that’s likely my lack of experience rather than its actual usability.
I struggled with it a lot at first, because there's so many layers to it and so much to learn! Once I got my head around it a bit more I found it incredibly powerful. My biggest recommendation is make use of track templates and presets when you're building your drum sound - the amount of time you'll spend routing and rebuilding every time you open a new project isn't worth it 🤦🏻♂️ might seem like a no-brainer but it was a huge downfall for me hahah
Say you were to want 5-10 kits at the ready, usual kick/snare/toms/cymbals setups.
Would you advise using them all in the Kontakt instance, or as separate instances, even though the routing would be to the same tracks?
I'd probably have all instruments loaded in one instance and routed to the same tracks, BUT from a mixing perspective it probably makes a lot more sense to do it in separate instances. My template loads up a 12 track pre-routed Kontakt and if I was to use multiple kits I'd probably just load another go of those 12 tracks.
When are you going to 5-10 kits in one project though??
Thanks for the advice!
I definitely don’t want to use 10 in a song. :) haha. It’s rather about having whatever another person is comfortable with at the ready, with routing hassles already solved to keep the vibe.
A lot of it is up to how the instrument/scripter set up the patch. SonicCouture's Acoustic-Electric was the easiest one for me to set up, they set up the UI to allow you to choose outputs for each instrument. You still need to build the outputs though, but that is easy enough if you remove all existing outputs and create however many you need.
If they didn't do much/any scripting then it can be a real pain. I have a couple drum kits like that, where each instrument is its own patch, so you create a multi and need to route the MIDI in, and set the output for each patch. For those I save a template so I never have to do it again. I have a couple 3 Sigma kits, and if I use the same type of instrument for each output in a template then I can swap the patches and mix and match then save that as a new template.
It's not exactly Kontakt's fault, it's just a really flexible and powerful sampler and they let the instrument creator do whatever they want.
Ezdrummer 2 for me.
I did have Superior Drummer 2 but got really bogged down in settings and mixing, ended up spending more time adjusting bleed and getting to granular. I just needed a "simpler" option.
Pros of EZD: It just works, it's there. It's eezee (pun intended) Sounds great. Midi libraries are huge (also see cons) Fairly flexible You don't have to go super granular with the built in effects on the mixer (also see cons) You can do multi track output if you want though.
Cons: The modular aspect can become expensive if you need a very wide range of sounds. The midi libraries do contain a lot of filler Non programmable effect routing
I just bought SD2 and so far it works for me!
It's a tremendous bit of software, it was just unnecessary "yoooj" for what I wanted.
I bought a couple of stuff from Ugritone. They're really niche but they fit my needs. I love their Riot Drums from anything from garage indie to all out hardcore. It's dirty and bad but in a good way. For cleaner hard stuff I got their Northern Artillery set. It does heavy stuff in a heavy way. And they are really cheap. Great value for money.
Another Ugritone user here.
They usually have a deal running if you sign up for their newsletter you get one of the sets for $5. Did that and got Riot Drums, and picked up a couple others on various sales.
They market as metal/punk/rock kits, but they've got a vid floating around of them taking the Kvlt 2 kit through multiple non metal styles and fits with those as well.
I had the Chris Lord Alge expansion for SSD4 Platinum, so the upgrade to SSD5.5 was a clear decision, since it automatically upgraded my expansion. That plus Geist and BFD Lite covers me pretty well for everything I need (mostly rock and metal).
One thing I would like is a more robust Drum Editor like Cubase; having to do everything on the piano roll works fine, but the limitations are there. Rearranging the notes would be cool, as would conversation to Drum Notation, and the routing notes to multiple instruments. But alas, that's nit picky, and working around those drawbacks is fine in 90% of what I do.
That's literally the only nice thing from Cubase compared to Reaper though lol. The rest is a dumpster fire as far as I'm concerned.
I will have to check how deep it goes, but I believe you can have item-specific MIDI editor windows. If so, maybe you could toggle the diamonds-on-grid option, display velocity or note color (whatever you prefer), and all the other options you want for just that MIDI drum item.
Yeah, that's what I do now. It still falls a tiny bit short imo, but not enough so that I'd dare switch back lol
Sweet man! It’s always nice to hear when someone happily moved over to Reaper. And you seem like you are really making the most of it.
Geist 2 sends the cell names to REAPER's MIDI piano roll automatically. It is a REAPER-specific ability, not part of the VST/AU standard. Sitala is the only other drum plugin I know that does that. I wish more plugins supported it.
Oh man, I need to check that out! Would make the menu diving much smoother.
RS5K tbh or Xpand2 when i need some percussion.
otherwise it's just bits of audio
I went from Addictive, to SSD, to EZ Drummer. All fantastic, and honestly can't go wrong with any of them. Budget depending, you've got a great selection to chose from. SSD has a free version as well. Been wanting to upgrade to Superior Drummer, but I can't justify the price jump for my mostly casual use.
AD2 guy checking in. I've got a couple of other drum VSTs, but seldom use them due to AD2 fitting the bill in most cases.
EZ Drummer for me..some easy to use and if you are good at mastering, can make them sound great
Is it preset based, or is the effects/processing more like other VST’s, with their controls open to tweak?
I usually just pick the patterns I want, the drum kit I want, drag them into Reaper, and do any processing (which I rarely do) with Reaper. But the program itself has efx (delay and reverb) options too. I just prefer to write and record with a dry drum signal.
I literally use the Modern Vintage drum kit on every song I write, whether it's a pop song, metal, country, whatever. Most natural sounding drum kit to my ears, even though I have access to a good 2 dozen others.
It's a super easy program to use with Reaper, sounds great. I cant speak to anything else, but not once have I felt the need or desire to try anything. KISS..that's my mantra
Yeah EZ Drummer is awesome. I’ve been using the demo version for a couple days and I love it. It’s the easiest to use out of everything I have tried. I’ll be making a purchase once the trial is over
I use Arturia SparkLE and Addictive Drums 2 and they have both functioned flawlessly. I usually do the drums in standalone mode with those VST's, then import the finished tracks into Reaper.
Jamstix is really cool. I only have v3 but v4 is out and there’s a free version to try.
Did you say free... haha
My assumption is that any free kit will have more traction and use cases than even a good but unknown kit, for which I have discovered many from this thread. So I want to set up as many free ones as I can. They come at the annoyance for user but benefit for me that they often have less channels to configure, their paid full version counterpart filling in the gaps.
I just returned to SD2 after an hiatus and found most useful the ability to tune the envelope of a drum in their GUI, then to mod their bleed mixes to my busses and gates in Reaper. I get the impression that I’m getting what I want, having a decent selection of kits to work from.
Didn’t know that SD and SSD both had envelope shapers. Love it!
I’m using NI Maschine MK2. It’s good but not the greatest. It’s factory sound library is probably its strongest point. The multi-sampled acoustic kits sound great.
I'm using Getgood Drums. Sound spectacular, cheap, and easy to learn. Lots of groove packs available and some sick presets. Probably a good idea to get Smash and Grab for compression as well. Amazing though
Getgood took over the metal world I often find myself in this year. I have gotten one project without GGD being used in their pre-pro or for sample selection.
I use BFD3 and it's amazing. It's also on sale right now. I frequently get comments that people can't believe it's not a real drummer when they hear my music. It's also very flexible and I can get a lot of different sounds out of, because of how deep the customization features are.
I have positioned BFD at the mountain crest in my to-do log for drums. Learning to wield it, not just use it, is a goal I haven’t found the time for in too long.
Yes, I think BFD3 is the most powerful software, if you wanna go in depth. It's probably not the best software for quickly throwing up a groove, because of it's complexity, but I am really happy with the results I get. There is a pretty good tutorial on it on groove3. A membership costs a bit, but if you have other music topics you want to learn it totally worth it!
I've used eco in the past, recently looking to dig into BFD3. like you said, incredibly powerful but daunting at the same time. I actually used to lay out basic grooves with powerdrum kit and then copy the midi over to BFD channel after humanizing with Reaper.
Mdrummer, it doesn't seem to get much attention (maybe because it lacks pictures of shining drum kits?) but works well, comes with a ton of samples and free updates. I made a basic template for it but honestly I often just use the stereo out when composing, and then think about routing etc at a later stage, which I often don't get to ;-)
Melda Production plugins are easily some of my favorite. To keep myself from getting banned or stereotyped, I try not to speak about them much.
Their aggressive and bloated marketing (install this one free plugin...along with 200 trials of others!) worked for me, I love their ecosystem. But I was in a mindset and position to capitalize on that offer, and I’d blame no one for feeling differently.
Drum machine: Sitala - I've a track template set up with audio routing to a track folder so on my screen it's not taking up a huges amount of room, and the tracks are named, but I can still dive in to each channel when required. Initially drums triggered by Megababy, but then I record the midi out so I can manipulate it.
For "real" drums SSD 5 Free is amazing.
I use Reason as a VST inside of Reaper. The DAW part of Reason is, to me, not good at all, but their instruments are great and so are some of their "players" (MIDI effects & sequencers). Beatmap + Kong or UMPF Club Drums is a great combination.
AD2. Sounds/feels great to play as a drummer, either via good pads or via an electric kit, and it has fantastic support for e-kits.
You guys need to try SM drums, free, and made especially for Reaper. Hundreds of drum samples /velocity layers etc, check it out:
https://smmdrums.wordpress.com/for-reaper/
Thank you! Just bookmarked it for further reading!
Superior Drummer 2 for me. It is really great - here's a recent mix I did - but it will almost definitely be my last Toontrack purchase.
They removed the option to upgrade to Superior Drummer 3 for no real reason other than greed. That's not how you win loyalty.
I am considering moving to Nolly and Matt Halpern's GetGoodDrums Kontakt libraries if I need to upgrade in the future.