I Am A, where the mundane becomes fascinating and the outrageous suddenly seems normal.
Edit 7:05pm EDT: Unfortunately the amendment failed. The good news is that, thanks to your work, it was an unbelievably close 217-205. A month ago those defending these programs wouldn't have conceived they'd be getting this level of opposition on Capitol Hill. We need to capitalize on this and keep the fight going. Sign up for our newsletter at restorethefourth.net to get updates on future events, and join us on 1984 Day and continue our fight for the Bill of Rights.
Edit 2: The list of how each rep voted isn't available yet but should be tomorrow. We'll make sure it's publicized.
Edit 3: List is up: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml
This vote is taking place in a few hours. We need you to call your reps ASAP. They've taken notice of the pressure you've put on already, and we need to keep adding it on. There's an easy-to-use tool that will help you find your rep's phone number and a script for when they answer at defundthensa.com.
Here are some other resources...
Amash NSA Amendment Fact Sheet
demandprogress.org form to call Congress
Freedom of the Press Foundation guide on encryption
restorethefourth.net blog post
Who we are
u/drewaccess - Drew from Access Now
u/alexabdo - Alexander Abdo from the ACLU
u/Ryanradia - Ryan Radia from the Competitive Enterprise Institute
u/DavidAdamSegal - David Segal from Demand Progress
u/TrevorEff - Trevor Timm from the EFF
u/Sinakh - Sina Khanifar from FixtheDMCA.org and Taskforce
u/levjoy - Josh Levy from Free Press
u/douglasmacarthur and u/NeutralityMentality from Restore the Fourth
u/willrinehart - Will Rinehart from TechFreedom
u/Dskhanna - Derek Khanna, writer, has contributed to The Atlantic, Forbes, Human Events, and National Review
Proof
https://twitter.com/Restore_the4th/status/360089433363591171
https://twitter.com/RestoreThe4thNY/status/360090550105415682
https://twitter.com/RyanRadia/status/360092233116037120
https://twitter.com/demandprogress/status/360091924989886464
https://twitter.com/levjoy/status/360091780512878592
https://twitter.com/AlexanderAbdo/status/360090042833707009
https://twitter.com/sinak/status/360090450356486145
What would you say is the biggest misconception about NSA surveillance? Is there anything most media outlets continue to get wrong in their coverage?
Biggest misconception is that the NSA only targets foreigners outside the U.S. We now have clear evidence that it actively collects data on people in the U.S.
And even for its supposedly foreign surveillance, like the PRISM program, the NSA sweeps in U.S. communications, too. In fact, when Bush administration officials testified in support of an earlier version of the PRISM program, they made clear that communications with one end in the U.S. were the most important to the NSA.
But it's not a misconception http://www.reddit.com/r/1881a/
Yes, lots of US data gets caught, but non-Americans have zero legal rights under FISA 702
Where does ACLU stand on recognizing universal human rights to privacy?
If Amash passes, what do you think NSA will do instead to establish "probable cause" that a 702 target is not a US person ?
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US data is directly and intentionally targeted in a number of ways, including under Section 215 of the Patriot Act (distinct from Section 702 of FISA). Look here: http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/myths_and_facts_re_sec.215_domestic_call_tracking-vote_yes_on_amash-conyers_amdt_101-_7.23.13.pdf
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As for 702, the entire point of the program was to allow the NSA to collect Americans' international communications. This is pretty clear from the testimony in support of passage of an early version of it in 2007, but also from the procedures the NSA uses to decide which U.S. communications to keep. You can see our analysis here: http://www.aclu.org/files/assets/explainer_v4.pdf
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Privacy is a human right, not just a civil right.
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On Section 702 targeting, two quick points. First, "probable cause" is not the standard for determining whether someone is a U.S. citizen or not under Section 702. Take a look at our analysis of the procedures (link above). The standard is even lower - if they don't have contrary evidence, they presume you're a foreigner. Second, that's a good question, but I don't think it justifies allowing the government to aggregate enormous databases of our private info. The real solution should be this: if the NSA is reviewing an intercept of a foreigner under Section 702 and it discovers that a U.S. person was on the call, it should either delete the info immediately or get a traditional wiretap order from the FISA court to review it. President Obama proposed exactly this in 2008, when he was a Senator.
Non-Americans might not have constitutional rights, but they do have human rights
As a party the ICCPR the US IS obligated to respect privacy rights of everyone.
The Amash Amendment won't necessarily impact 702, but it will provide momentum towards further reform -- hopefully towards reform of 702 as well.
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Somewhat related: Zeynep Tufekci's post on how the NSA's ability to track "hops" on a network can easily lead them to tracking the entire country: https://medium.com/technology-and-society/e78cbf912907
Not part of the AMA responders, but perhaps the most confusing thing in the media is equating NSA surveillance with only "phone metadata". The largest data mining effort is on Internet traffic, and it's the entire traffic, not just metadata.
A staffer for Rep Ted Poe (TX-2) just told me he would not only be voting for the Amash Amendment, but would be speaking on the floor, in support.
Awesome. Thank you so much for calling.
That's awesome!
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So they will keep collecting data in the rest of the world.
I just called both my representatives. In each case the phone was answered by a real person on the first ring. I just said that I'm a constituent of Representative ____ and encourage them to support Representative Amash's amendment to HR-2397. They thanked me and said it would be passed along. One asked for my name. It took less than thirty seconds total.
If you're hesitating, please pick up the phone! It was faster and easier than ordering takeout.
Edit to add: This is the first time I've called my representatives on any topic. I had no idea it was that simple a process.
2nd edit: The list is out. Both my representatives voted against it. I'll be voting against them next chance I get.
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he was opposed to the 4th amendment
...They actually said that?
Can we get him to say it again on record?
yeah, wtf. how can someone say that an be an elected official? isn't that against an oath they took?
Amendments can be repealed, for example I believe Al Smith was a presidential candidate who was against the Eighteenth Amendment. So in reality the official must uphold the constitution, but that doesn't mean he has to support it.
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McCaul is also the wealthiest member of the United States Congress. Fuck that guy.
Statements like this concern me greatly.
That statement in a vacuum shouldn't be so bad. There has to always be one that is the wealthiest.
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I understood that, but that's seriously how the person you talked to phrased it?
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Aren't they supposed to be representatives though. It doesn't matter what they think, they are supposed to represent their state?
One would think so right? How often that actually happens in practice is probably pretty small. Just look at the "pro-life" crap being pushed though at the state level. It doesn't seem to matter to people like the Governor of Texas that the majority of women in his state are opposed to it he still has been pushing HIS agenda.
It's good that you called anyways though. If more people in his district call he'll at least know that he has to be careful about what he says and supports.
... what? I thought they were sworn to uphold the constitution or some shit when they took office.
Upholding it doesn't mean agreeing with it.
Wait what? Is that what they actually said?
I had the exact same experience, though I was kind of nervous and now wish I had asked what position my Rep. was taking on the issue. They took my name and address and promised to follow up with a letter.
I called too, first time for me (CA- Waxman).
Everyone upvote this!!
Just want to start by saying that if you oppose NSA surveillance, you should pick up the phone and call your representatives in Congress right now. A vote on the Amash amendment is happening in the next few hours, and we need as many calls in support as possible to sway the vote.
You can find your legislator's phone number at any of these links:
I want to re-iterate this. BY FAR the most important thing you can do is call your representative. It is MUCH more effective than emailing, and just a couple dozen calls can swing a rep one way or another.
Look at what Rep. Justin Amash, the sponsor of this important NSA amendment, said about calling just yesterday: "Phone calls to your Representative's office are much more effective than most people think."
Go to http://defundthensa.com to look up your representative and see a script you can read when you call.
Hijacking top comment to point out that if the schedule proceeds as planned, the vote on the Amash amendment will be at 3:30pm EST. WE HAVE AN HOUR, CALL CALL CALL!!!
Emails take up KBs
Phone calls take time.
Make them pay attention and call!
Latest info is that Amash bill vote won't happen until between 6pm and 730pm EST. Which is good: that gives us 3 more hours - call in now!
Where are to guys finding this information and what is the bill number?
I'm looking on house.gov and I don't see anything on their agenda about this.
Thanks in advance.
Great, so it'll be between hours 2 and 3 of the congressional dinner break?
In all honesty, what chances do you guys give this vote of actually passing/failing?
Regardless of whether it passes, it will put our congressmen on record for supporting/opposing widespread surveillance of innocent Americans.
Edit: To see how your rep voted, see this page: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2013/roll412.xml
This is important to note.
It's just not clear. The NSA and WH have gone to bat against the amendment, but 100,000+ calls to Congress should have an impact. Regardless of if it passes, anything over 100+ Yes votes will send a huge message compared to anything that Congress has done so far on NSA surveillance.
Someone working on Capitol Hill that I'm in contact with estimated a 15% chance last night. Which is a much higher chance of something like this happening this week than we thought there was a few days ago.
Even if it doesn't pass, however, the important thing is that it isn't a route. They're afraid of the movement against unconstitutional surveillance right now and if there's a couple hundred votes for this today they'll know they should be.
They should be afraid of it not passing.
incentives, dude
Congressional Switchboard Number: (202) 224-3121 http://iroots.org/
I called my rep! They're going to get back to me. I did let them know where I'm wanting my rep to stand on the issue.
They won't get back to you.
I'll have you know that it just so happens that...
No, they didn't get back to me :(
Oddly, I started calling my reps. Now they've started calling me spontaneously. Usually because they want me to come to public forums and things. It does make me feel special.