Another Disaffiliation Letter

Another Disaffiliation Letter

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PostJan 17, 2006#1

I thought it would be a helpful exercise of "connecting the dots" to read a letter from another branch ministry who disaffiliated. Many of us, including pastors who have sent similar in the past year, remember when this church disaffiliated from us. We remember how off and "into evil" these pastors were labeled. I think it is helpful to the process of leaving GG to realize the problems go way back. And godly men were publicly slandered for the same reasons that godly men are slandered today. This is our history, these were our brothers.. just as Jack Leonard was a godly man who witnessed the Dovydenas diabolical a few years after this letter was written. I hope some that are just leaving now, having their eyes opened now will re-connect with the godly men who left before you. Could it be as someone posted yesterday that it is the tares that remain? And it is the wheat who is bundled up together on the outside? I am beginning to think so....





Dear Sirs:

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.

It is because of a deep love for The Bible Speaks Ministry and a sincere desire to adhere to God's Word that this correspondence is made necessary. We ask that you, as the Elders of the church, consider our letter prayerfully and deal with it accordingly as the Holy Spirit leads you.

With heaviness of heart, we find it needful to follow through with the order of church discipline found in Matthew 18:15-17 and also inform you of the reasons for our formal separation as a ministry from The Bible Speaks. We do so in much sobriety and with no malice towards any particular individual or the ministry as a whole. Our action comes only after we have followed the aforementioned Scripture and found no attitude of repentance forthcoming.

Our desire is, as a ministry which was a part of your church, to bring to light doctrine and practices which we can no longer support and pray that you, as leaders, will find the correct path to take. We find this action to be extremely difficult as we have a deep love for all those in The Bible Speaks Ministry and have no desire to cause any harm to come to the soul winning efforts of the ministry; however, we are forced by our conviction to confront this issue head on and present our views to you as church leaders. The reasons behind our decision can be summed up as follows:

1. DEFINITE LACK OF FOLLOWING GOD'S WORD DEFINING CHURCH DISCIPLINE, ESPECIALLY WHEN INVOLVING A PASTOR.

A. The Bible is very clear that if it takes a confrontation for a Pastor to repent of a serious sin he is engaged in, then he is no spiritual shape to lead the church and is to be brought before the entire church for reproof.

D. We have found The Bible Speaks to have dealt with this issue in complete partiality (conflicting with I Timothy 5:21); and while overlooking known questionable pastoral moral behavior, pastoral manipulation of people and finances, or lying, they prosecute to the fullest extent of Scripture (and sometimes beyond) any individual who has sinned or erred in conforming to Bible Speaks doctrine. This can be best shown by actions taken against people who have repented of their actions without pastoral prompting, yet have been brought before the church, fired, and kicked off campus; while pastors who have had to be confronted to repent of adultery or embezzlement have been simply relocated to teach in Lenox or given their own church.

C. Doctrinally, this can be best seen in the lengthy apologetic which was endorsed by the ministry and sent to Christian Research Institute to explain and defend the doctrinal stance of The Bible Speaks and Pastor Stevens' preaching on the issue. (1)

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While any references were made to "loving", "submitting to", "not questioning or doubting", "honoring", "obeying" and "co-operating with what God lays upon his (the Pastor's) Heart" and "one with his (again the Pastor's) vision", with regard to a pastor, while the only reference made to dealing with pastoral infidelity was a short quote from Tape 2260 preached in Scarborough on 4/1/79, "What they say, what I say, what everybody says, has to be according to the Word of God; you follow the Word of God and PRAY HE'LL (THE PASTOR) GET IT RIGHT." The only mention of how to respond to a pastor's humanity in a 27-page defense of The Bible Speaks position of pastoral authority is that the people in the church are to pray and hope he gets his doctrine right. No mention of any verses on pastoral responsibility to God and the church, no mention of confronting a pastor on sin; just let him go on as he is, love him and pray for him. Extreme unbalance and very dangerous is our best description of this view. Matthew 18:15-17, Luke 17:3, Galatiains 6:1, and I Timothy 5:19-21 contain material we feel to best outline our positions as they bring out main points on this issue. (2)

2. POOR APPLICATION OF HERMENEUTICAL PRINCIPALS LEADING TO DOCTRINAL INACCURACY AND CHURCH STRIFE AND DIVISION.
*Please note that many of the "doctrines" we discuss here are not stated doctrines in The Bible Speaks publications or messages per se, but have been formed in the minds of all those who have been under The Bible Speaks' teaching for some time.

A. The dual doctrines of "love covers all sins" (Proverbs 10:12) and "don't deal with sin (especially not a Pastor's) because God will" (Proverbs 3:12), are presented in such a way as to exclude Pastors from correction or reproof from the congregation. This is in direct conflict with the Bible's stance on this issue as we have seen and causes many individuals much confusion and heartache when they observe wrongdoing and are forced to rationalize it away in their mind. We believe that the Bible is very clear on this point. The only sins that are covered (covered, meaning not mentioned to others) are those repented of; those not repented of are to be brought before the entire church. Pastors must be brought to the realization that they, more so than anyone else, are held responsible by God for their actions (James 3:1) and are accountable to all those they serve.

B. As a complimentary doctrine, we find the teachings of "Don't listen to an evil report", "Don't spread cockatrice eggs", "Don't be deceived by Satan and become a casualty", "If a person is causing division, have nothing to do with them", and "When you leave, don't backbite", all strongly emphasized in conjunction with a person's loyalty to Pastor Stevens and The Bible Speaks. We have found these teachings to give the individual a warped sense of loyalty and cause numerous wrongs to go unrighted. This unhealthy loyalty, as we see it, is extremely dangerous and is reminiscent of any totalitarian type structure which emphasizes a person's blind acceptance of what surrounds him, to be in his best interest, designed by the leadership. (3)

C. The association of any negative report with Satan and demonic attack. Many of us have seen in the past (from Wiscasset until now) what happens to a person when they attempt to deal with problems in The Bible Speaks, especially anything concerning Pastor Stevens' personal actions. They are immediately overwhelmed with Bible Speaks doctrine; and if this fails to calm their fears to the satisfaction of the leadership, they are branded as "causing division", "being influenced by demons", or "fellowshipping with darkness". Whatever it is they have to say is "of the devil" and must not be listened to with any credibility, if listened to at all. This is taken to the extent that one of our Pastors was threatened not to receive his ordination if he did not stop fellowshipping with a labeled "division causer" because it cast doubts upon his "loyalty". (4)

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We find all of this to be extremely disconcerting; it creates an unhealthy air of blind acceptance and closed mindedness, we see as in direct conflict with Paul's attitude in I Thessalonians 5:21, "prove all things". Please do not think that we are ignorant of the multitude of verses which deal with this subject; however, they are the means by which The Bible Speaks has used to cause all attempts at constructive criticism, or in more biblical terms, "reproof" to be either thwarted in its process or never begun because of the fear of being "used by Satan." These verses must be taught in accordance with hermeneutical principles to obtain a biblical balance.

D. The Doctrine that those who leave The Bible Speaks and have any disagreement with Pastor Stevens (whether spoken or silent) or attempt to cause change, are in serious danger of divine punishment. We have experienced many messages and conversations that imply or have directly stated that God has brought severe judgment to those who dared entertain critical thoughts or actions against Pastor Stevens; incidents have been cited starting from cancer of the tongue or throat all the way to physical death or spiritual darkness and reprobation. This can only be described as a completely heretical fear tactic used to manipulate people and bring strict orthodoxy to The Bible Speaks, or more specifically, Pastor Stevens' doctrine. Another aspect of this doctrine is that all problems experienced or illnesses incurred by those loyal to Pastor Stevens and The Bible Speaks are the result of persecution; when these same events befall those who are antagonistic to The Bible Speaks or who have left, they become evidence of God's displeasure and judgment.

We find all of this extremely unacceptable, causing many who have honest questions or criticisms to be in complete bondage and confusion. They hear one thing preached only to see Pastors act in a totally opposite manner (i.e., speak no evil, yet Pastors constantly ridicule, belittle and malign congregation members, other ministries and pastors; but most of all, those who hold opposing views.). This doctrine has created spiritually crippled people who have much difficulty in holding an opposing view or in questioning a doctrine, even when they know they are right and have absolute proof of their convictions. Fearful puppets fill The Bible Speaks churches, even though they won't admit it openly, they cry inwardly for release and guidance.

E. The doctrine of submission and authority which was taught in Wiscasset, Scarborough, South Berwick, and Lenox, and is still in practice today in branch ministries and home base, having never been dealt with honestly or taught correctly to all those who have been under these teachings.

We feel this doctrine can best be summed up by quoting a passage from a book highly acclaimed by Stevens (at one point required yearly reading by Staff in Lenox and taught in Bible School), written by Watchman Nee, "Spiritual Authority," page 71. The first two paragraphs state very clearly that no one who follows the directions from a spiritual leader will be held responsible for their obedience; it is not their concern if the leader is right or wrong, just to obey. (5) We find this in direct conflict with the entirety of Scripture, especially those verses which deal with our personal responsibility and relationship to our Lord. This doctrine has been engrained in all who were present when these teachings were taught openly and are being trained into others by those Pastors and church members who pass this attitude on through words and actions.

This leads to an unscriptural and unhealthy dependence on Pastor Stevens and The Bible Speaks for a person's relationship with Christ. It has been evidenced by many that those who have turned their spiritual walk (even in the least) over to

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Pastor Stevens or their respective Bible Speaks Pastor, have limited or no fellowship with the Lord outside their Bible Speaks realm, even to the point of physical locale. This dependence was voiced by one graduate of The Bible Speaks Bible School (who has his own ministry with The Bible Speaks) in defense of the teachings of The bible Speaks when he posed this question to one of our church members, "How can you survive without Lenox tapes?" This type of dependence can only be described as unbiblical and unsound to anyone's spiritual walk. Stevens, as well as many others, will claim this not to be true. On careful examination and honest consideration, on your part, of people's lives in branch ministries or in Lenox, we feel you will see the truth in this point. (6,7)

F. The doctrine of the superiority of The Bible Speaks understanding of "grace" and the "body concept." This is an unspoken and many times spoken attitude taken by all those who become "one" with The Bible Speaks. This attitude leads to spiritual snobbery and becoming closed as far as considering other churches' understanding of Scripture, correction or reproof from outside persons or groups which desire to help; but, worst of all, it leaves a completely helpless and worthless feeling in all those who leave the ministry for one reason or another. The ministry seems to have won many people by pride and kept them by fear.

G. The doctrine of the "cross life" and how it is used to manipulate people's actions by playing on their moral conscience. It has been clearly manifested in past years how The Bible Speaks has used the preaching of the "cross" to cause behavior modification on the part of its congregation to fit the needs of the ministry by causing people to feel guilty, or less spiritual, if they refused the "cross," the ministry could manipulate people into various actions which benefited the church, either financially or otherwise. Preaching soon became a time where the "cross" would be determined by the pulpit as the church had needs. If the property needed people as residents, then the "cross" would be to sell your house, donate the money to the church and move on campus. Message after message asserted that a person was not loyal to the "Body" if they didn't live on campus and never register a complaint because of ridiculous living conditions. The "corporate vision" forced people into situations where their moral conscience caused their actions instead of the Holy Spirit's leading. Anytime a person complained about conditions on campus or in the church, they were said to "not desire the cross in their life." People soon took this doctrine to the point of leaving their families, financial responsibility, or saying that anything that a person did that did not agree with Pastor Stevens' view had to be due to "their flesh rejecting the cross." Please do not misunderstand us to the point of saying we do not believe in the "preaching of the cross," we do; but we are extremely disturbed when a person or a church chooses to manipulate people by doctrinal means and leave them in a place where their moral conscience is pitted against their being led by the Spirit. We must conclude that this preaching is a result of one of the following

1. Ignorance;
2. Willful manipulation for personal gain; or
3. Lack of trust in God and His Spirit to meet needs.

We have experienced people who have come from Lenox that have backslidden and claimed they need to be in Lenox to hear "the cross" preached. What they should have said was that they never established a personal relationship with the Lord and desire their lives to be manipulated into desired Christian behavior. We feel this is an accurate view from the standpoint that our pulpit has taken a very strong stance concerning the type of sins they had fallen into and that the "cross" as we see it has been preached repeatedly. We cannot come to the point where we believe it is correct to manipulate

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people's flesh for the sake of the Kingdom. The result is always that they fail as soon as our manipulation ceases. They must be brought to the Lord to establish a relationship with His Holy Spirit for conviction, not our "cross." Because of people's ability to confuse preaching or take it to a point where it was never meant; people have abandoned parents, husbands, wives, children, jobs, homes or financial responsibility to appease this strong burden placed on their moral conscience when it has nothing to do at all with being led by the Spirit. This doctrine, as much as any other doctrine, has frequently caused family conflict, personal strife and church confusion to the point where it must be dealt with swiftly and thoroughly to stop further damage.

H. The doctrine of branch ministries with Lenox as "Home Base." We find this doctrine to be completely and thoroughly perpetrated to the fullest extent when it is beneficial for Lenox or the branch church to do so and just as vehemently denied if it is inconvenient or unbeneficial for either. We were given a copy of a letter to Pastor Stevens which confronted him with dealing with the California Ministry in complete dishonesty. (8) He had told the individuals that Leon Devoid was under him in the ministry hierarchy and he would deal with the situation as an overseeing Pastor. When Pastor Stevens came out to deal with the situation, he assured them he would correct the problem. Instead, he preached about not "dishonoring the Pastor" and compared Devoid's situation to one similar he had experienced when he was let down out of a church window in Bath, Maine. He claimed to individuals who had spoken to those that had written the letter that the California Ministry was a completely separate organization and that he had no authorization to do anything. He asserted that he had never made any of the statements they were claiming he had, making them out to be liars, even to their children.

Situations like these are caused because The Bible Speaks has engendered a doctrine which goes against biblical principles concerning a local church, placing Pastor Stevens as the apostle, master builder, Head Pastor or whatever title you desire to use. The Bible is clearly for the establishment of local churches dependent upon no one but the Lord and themselves for their government, sustenance, and decisions. The Bible Speaks' stance is in no way biblically based.

and finally;

3. THE ELEVATION OF PASTORS AS A WHOLE, BUT ESPECIALLY PASTOR STEVENS, TO A PLACE OF UNDUE WORSHIP AND REVERENCE.

A. The Bible Speaks is not the first to establish such an attitude, nor will it be the last. However, we wish to address ourselves to the particular difficulties caused in The Bible Speaks ministry as a result of this doctrine.

B. In The Bible Speaks publication, "The Bible Speaks Goes On Record" (printed to clear up any questions concerning The Bible Speaks doctrinal views), we find a section entitled, "The Authority of Church Leadership." (9) It is here we find again no mention of specifics in dealing with pastoral sin or error, but numerous references to Old Testament examples and reference to "rebuke not an Elder." It seems as if nowhere in any Bible Speaks message, devotional, or official publication can we find reference to Paul's specific instructions found in I Timothy 5:19-21:

"Against an Elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three 'witnesses'. Them that sin rebuke before all that others also may fear. I charge thee before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and we elect angels, that thou observe these things without

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preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality." How is it possible that this verse has gone unnoticed throughout The Bible Speaks Ministry? Possibly because it makes pastors mare responsible to their church, not less, and brings down pastors off their pedestals to a place of accountability to humans as well as Gad.

C. This has caused frequent and continual problems to occur in Lenox and the brunch ministries, both in the execution of church affairs and in the individual lives of believers.

In one ministry, this doctrine eventually caused the church to close its doors and the pastor to make a complete re-evaluation of his calling. Strife resulted when the inability to live up to The Bible Speaks pastoral image was obvious to all, causing the church to became confused when every male who came from Lenox was called "Pastor" and few, if any, were ever called to such a position. Needless to say, the entire congregation suffered as a result of poor teaching and foolish pastoral decision

In another ministry, this caused people to be verbally slandered and attacked from the pulpit, finances to be manipulated and wasted, complete church division, and pastoral behavior to be unquestioned to the point that the pastor would feel comfortable in asking one individual before a group of people, "Who the (expletive deleted) are you to question me?" Pastoral attacks of other Christian ministries over radio airwaves carried with it the message of pastoral authority. The end result has been nothing short of giving Christ and His Gospel a poor name in the town and many outlying areas.

In various branch ministries this doctrine has caused the ordination and elevation of many novices (including a Head Pastor who was ordained, after only being saved a short time, because he was an undesirable steward of the finances in Lenox) who have lorded it over the people in their church, crushing numerous young, sincere Christians by their "Pastoral Dictatorship."

We cite the North Carolina, Milpitas, Lake Elsinore, Rhode Island, and Wilmington Ministries, to name a few, far our preceding statements.(10)

Last, but most importantly, this specific doctrine (added to the rest) has caused Pastor Stevens to commit many pastoral inconsistencies which have added to the entire problem concerning The Bible Speaks. Unlike Barnabas and Paul in Acts 14:14 (they rent their clothes to prove they were human), Pastor Stevens has done everything in his power, it seems, to give his church the opposite view. Many different situations shall be discussed in this section and we desire you to keep in mind that all of the following can be proven via tapes, letters, eye-witness testimony (2 or 3), or personal conversation. We do not wish to crucify Stevens or "destroy The Bible Speaks," but to bring to your attention serious problems in need of correction. Whether the doctrines are a result of the man or the man is a result of the doctrines, we cannot discern. However, our experience with Carl Stevens (through his preaching and private conversation) has led us to believe that he has come to consider himself someone who is not accountable to just any sincere believer, but to God only. (11) He believes that whatever means he chooses to propagate The Bible Speaks Gospel are perfectly legitimate, with a definite sense of the "ends justifying the means" in many areas in both church actions as well as personal behavior.

The area of his position in the church government has been experienced by many of us both in personal situations and messages: "Jesus told me, you're (referring to Stevens) the prophet," quotes Stevens in one message from a conversation he had with a girl in a bowling alley. Not only does be not clarify what she meant, he does not offer his opinion - he just continues his message, leaving us with the view that Jesus is going around telling people Carl Stevens is The Prophet. (12) We could list numerous

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quotes from messages, classes, and written material in which Stevens compares himself to Paul, Moses, or some other Biblical leader. He repeatedly has used himself as a "good example" in messages, but in all the messages we have experienced, there are very few times, if any, where Stevens refers to specific faults in his life or uses himself to illustrate failure to bring a balance in people's minds.

He has caused people to consider him as infallible in the pulpit, not because of personal infallibility, but because they believe he would never be dishonest or preach something that wasn't biblically sound. Many people have commented on how great it will be to "receive an apostle's reward" because they "received an apostle" (referring to Stevens). Try as we might to convince ourselves that no one really believes that Stevens is anyone special, we cannot rationalize the hundreds of people that have testified to their total and complete trust in him.

He is special to everyone in The Bible Speaks. Take his title for example; no one loyal to The Bible Speaks would ever consider calling Stevens anything but "Dr. Stevens" or "Pastor." We think nothing of saying, "Billy Graham, Rex Humbard, Richard Wurmbrand or Robert Schuller;" but for someone who has been "baptised into the body of The Bible Speaks," it is a sign of the utmost disrespect to call Stevens "Carl," and when people leave, it is as if they have to train themselves to call him by his first name. Try as we might, we cannot escape the fact that we have put Carl Stevens in a place where no man should be. One Pastor referred to Stevens in a message in Lenox, saying, "Because he is, I am." Another Pastor in a class tape makes the statement that there is "nothing that comes from this pulpit that isn't right on." One of our Pastors taught in a class in Lenox that Carl Stevens was an apostle and was never corrected or told to clarify his statement.

Stevens has been dishonest in respect to his "honorary" degree to many of us personally. We have contacted Roy Stewart of The Clarksville School of Theology as well as Mr. David Mitchell, Dean of The Baptist Bible College in Clarksville, Tennessee. We have found a Doctor of Divinity Degree to cost $631.00, Clarksville School of Theology to be a "diploma mill", and that Stevens knew that his "Honorary Degrees" were nothing but purchased credibility, and while many have claimed he has stopped using them, we have been given a letter dated December 28, 1982 which has Stevens' doctorate degrees on the letterhead. This may seem to be nothing but proof of some ego on the part of Stevens, while in truth we find it falls right in line with many inconsistencies Stevens has exhibited that we have passed off too many times.

Stevens has also exhibited seeming callousness concerning his personal conversations; we have experienced numerous times Stevens has railed at congregation members, other pastors, other ministries or just revealed personal confidences with the excuse he was "testing people's loyalty", and people seem to feel he has the right to do so because of his position in the ministry. If the church were to apply Stevens' teachings concerning "speaking evil" or "don't eat with a railer" to Stevens, he would be a lonely man.

We could tell so many stories of wounded Christians, disillusioned young people, pastoral infidelity, and church strife that it would fill many more pages. We pass all of this off because of all the souls the ministry wins. We can no longer justify allowing pastoral sin and doctrinal manipulation to go unchallenged simply because we win souls. We cannot justify evil behavior because good comes from it, no matter how "good" the good is. We cannot continue to take widows' money and leave them penniless, manipulate people, to expand the Kingdom of The Bible Speaks and ignore Gods warnings from sincere loving people.

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A Pastor in Lenox has been told that one of our Pastors has "left God" and is very deep in sin. This is in no way true. Others have been kept completely in the dark concerning the views of David McAdam and Ron Kelly, and the reasons why their ministries have left. People who feel as we do are totally belittled when they leave the ministry so as to completely discredit their testimony and keep the truth from being brought out into the open.

People have been confronted with discrepancies in various stories told by Stevens and others, their attitude more often than not is that if Stevens has said it, then they have no need to verify it. This was voiced by one Pastor when he replied to the honest questioning of another Pastor in regards to many of the aforementioned problems by saying, "We've grown past that baby stuff, we now have a much higher revelation."

We firmly believe that Carl Stevens' complete repentance before the church in Lenox, followed by his resignation is the only way for healing to start. These doctrines must be retaught and Christ must be put back on the thrones of the lives of individuals where He belongs.

It is because of these reasons and more that can be found in Walter Martin's report (14) that we have separated ourselves from The Bible Speaks church and present this letter to you. Many things we have said have sounded harsh and void of love, but please understand that we love Carl Stevens and owe much to The Bible Speaks. Many of us were saved through the ministry; however, we cannot compromise the Word of God and continue to accept uncorrected error as uncorrectable. We ask you to prayerfully consider this letter and Christian Research Institute's report.

May God's guidance and discernment be with you as you carry out your duties as Elders.

With a deep felt love and desire for the Ministry's best,
The Elders of The Grace Bible Church
15900 Grand Avenue
Lake Elsinore, California 92330

NOTES
1. An Apologetic on The Bible Speaks' Position on Pastoral Authority, The Bible Speaks, October 1981, Pages 2, 3, 5-16.

2. In Tape No. 1479, Stevens dogmatically states that he will not tolerate so much us a mental attitude against the ministry. If a mental attitude is not allowed, then it is not too hard to come to the conclusion that only delegated authority has any authority to deal with infidelity and sin. (Personal letters from leaders in The Bible Speaks voiced this view in recent months to our congregation members.)

3. 1984, George Orwell, Harcourt Inc. 1949, Pages 32,33,69. This type of mental gymnastics is termed "double think" by Orwell; it allows the person to see wrong or hear wrong yet still conclude there is no wrong. Orwell describes this process for us: "To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing both of them, to use logic against logic (Stevens is fallible, he often misquotes scripture, yet he is never wrong in the pulpit and is above questioning.)... to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself - that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then and once again to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed."
True Believer, Eric Hoffer, Pages 75, 76. Hoffer sheds some light on the psychological adjustments that are made in this process and their ramifications.

4. The True Believer, Eric Hoffer, Harper & Row 1959, Pages 114-115. "Strict Orthodoxy is as much the result of mutual suspicion as of ardent faith... suspicion is given a sharp edge by associating all opposition within the ranks with the enemy threatening the movement from without. This enemy - the indispensible devil of every mass movement - is omnipresent. He plots both outside and inside the ranks of the faithful. It is his voice that speaks through the mouth of the dissenter and the deviationists are his stooges. If anything goes wrong within the movement, it is his doing." This association causes all attempts to bring about change to be rendered useless. We can see how this was illustrated by Orwell in his work, Animal Farm Pages 72-74. "Presumption vs. Speaking to the Rock," (Tape) Carl Stevens, The Bible Speaks World Outreach. "If you have a close friend that evaluates anybody in delegated authority, I'll guarantee you that if it is done with any consistency, you'll be weak and sick and die in the future months...don't say a sentence, not a sentence, not a line, don't presume or you'll die in the future months."
See also - A Close Look at The Bible Speaks World Outreach, Elliot Miller, CRI 1983, Pages 12, 16.

5. Spiritual Authority, Watchman Nee, Christian Fellowship Publishers, 1972, Page 71. "People will perhaps argue, 'What if the authority is wrong?' ...Whether the one in authority is right or wrong does not concern us ... the Lord will not hold us responsible for any mistaken obedience."

6. True Believer, Hoffer, Pages 35-36. "We join a mass movement to escape individual responsibility; or, in the words of the ardent young NAZI, 'to be free from freedom.' It was not sheer hypocrasy when the rank-and-file NAZIS declared themselves not guilty of all the enormities they had committed. They considered themselves cheated and maligned when made to shoulder responsibility for obeying orders. Had they not joined the NAZI movement in order to be free from responsibility."
Many people testify of a freedom they feel when coming into The Bible Speaks. We feel this freedom is a result of allowing personal responsibility to be replaced by strict obedience; thus, this feeling is not from a positive growth pattern but from feeling the weight of responsibility for one's own life and decisions lifted off them, to be placed on "God's man" or "delegated authority for the covering of the body." (TI3S from the Throne, February 1976, Page 23)
Animal Farm, Orwell, Page 81. We see how Orwell associates blind devotion with an individual's taking the leader's word as absolute truth which needs no verification (even if it opposes known fact). "Ah, that is different!" said Boxer, "If Comrade Napolean says it, it must be right."

7. 1984., Orwell, Page 47. "Orthodoxy means not thinking - not needing to think. Orthodoxy is unconsciousness."
"He shall be for you in God's stead," TAPE, Carl Stevens, TBS World Outreach. "if I said tonight that the ministry here in South Berwick needs $30,000.00, I want six of you to raise it, that you have got it, to bring it in to lay it at our feet, I want you to do it. You shouldn't even have to pray about that. I am here in Christ's stead."

8. Letter from Dick & Marge Wallis to Carl Stevens: "We brought these matters to you and you told us we were right in coming to you because you were the overseeing Pastor. You told us you would take action to right these things. You made it clear to us that you were over Pastor Devoid in authority when you came (to California) you reinforced Pastor Devoid from the pulpit...with the matter of Pastor Devoid (referring to his authority) you told her (their daughter) he was only affiliated with The Bible Speaks. That was a lie."

9. The Bible Speaks Goes on Record, TBS 1980, Pages 12, 13.

10. Frederick M. Bower, Jim Heinz, Frank & Pat Manchester, Dick & Marge Wallia, Patricia Saunders, Fred & Joann Bower, Rick Petlicki, Bill Fisher, Wayne & Polly Davis, Ed & Patty Mosher, Bob Olivadoti, Gordon & Nancy Berry, Leon Libby, Jack & Sue Daley, Ron Kelly, Elliot Miller, Marty O'Brien, Steve Quuinlan, Alien & Gwen Joy, Fran & Sue Franco, and many others added to our view.

11. "Wisdom is Justified of Her Children." TAPE #1655, TBS, Carl Stevens/ CLOSE LOOK AT THE BIBLE SPEAKS WORLD OUTREACH, Eliot Miller, l6, 45

12. "'The Psychology of Thinking," TAPE # 926, TBS, Carl Stevens, Unedited Version.

13. Animal Farm, Orwell, Pages 69, 89, 90.

14. A CLOSE LOOK AT THE BIBLE SPEARS WORLD OUTREACH, Elliot Miller, CRI 1983. Homiletics Class Tape, Ed Mosber, Stevens School of the Bible, Fall 1977. Homiletics Class Tape, Mark Bower, Stevens School of the Bible, Spring 1978.

15. Phone Conversations on May 12, 1982, 1:00 p.m., PST

16. Animal Farm,, Orwell, Pages 65, 69, 81, 116.

Grace Bible Church in Lake Elsinore
15900 Grand Avenue
Lake Elsinore, California 2330


Guest
Guest

PostJan 17, 2006#2

Amazing and sickening at the same time.

One would assume that this letter was from the mid-eighties. It is from a group on the other side of the country from TBS, yet these men were able to clearly see what a charlatan Carl Stevens was and remains. They saw the pastor worship, the lies, the twisting of Bible verses.

It only took thirty damn years for the recent disafilliates to see the obvious and leave. Wow, that is some kind of awesome discernment on their part! It's a good thing they're still pastors. It should only take around a hundred years for them to get their shit totally together and repent.

It is certainly a time of revival.

24
Member
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PostJan 17, 2006#3

So what is thirty years to God?

Absolutely nothing!

Here we are ... all the same story/all the same history.. all loving the Lord with the same passion..

and what drew us to TBS/GG? but passion?

nothing has changed, has it? so I ask each of us.. I ask me.. let's just go from here, with all our weird baggage and just serve Him?

airhead response
airhead response

PostJan 17, 2006#4

you wrote:

"Here we are ... all the same story/all the same history.. all loving the Lord with the same passion.."

I don't think everyone loved the Lord with the same passion; I think many of the leaders loved themselves (many still do) which led to this subtle manipulation for power, greed, honor. After 30 years, when they were told over and over, lets' hope what they have now is true repentance.

Just don't lump erroneous teachers that may just be "wolves in sheep's clothing"
in with, let's say that vulnerable young person who got sucked into this web of deceit.

That is crass over-simplification.





24
Member
24

PostJan 17, 2006#5

You are right... I over-simplified. I was on a "happy high" last night because I got the job I was praying really hard for.

And you are also right about true repentance being the key.

Guest
Guest

PostJan 17, 2006#6

Passion for serving the Lord. Yep, that's what we were doing, or at least thought we were doing. That's what we told the whole time. "We're serving the Lord." And our passion and our pride for having something that no other Christian supposedly had is what got us into this mess.

I'm going to have to hear a whole lot more than "we're a Bible believing church that serves the Lord" before I attend another church.

They used my passion and ignorance to take me for a bad ride. It won't happen again.

to: jeannie
to: jeannie

PostJan 18, 2006#7


Your heart of reconciliation is great. Sorry for the name calling. Just cause you didnt qualify in that last post ..well, your humility and heart of love & restoration is evident in your writings.......as is your courage to turn the other cheek; one of the few times THAT's been witnessed on these forums.....that's power; that's......................astounding

your right about moving on; God will change us if we can get over the offense, unforgiveness, and bitterness, and the guy that takes 30 years to see it; can we say we are necessarily better, isn't it all by grace when any one sees it

maybe that parable of the guy working a short time vs the guy working the long time both recieving the same pay speaks to us here.


24
Member
24

PostJan 18, 2006#8

Thank you for the kind words..

I have been thinking lately about the irony of being part of a ministry which toted "grace" as their foundation. It is ironic because receiving true grace should free us to be ourselves and yet the system forced us to wear masks. How strange to speak "grace, grace" and yet be the "men in the iron masks." It is only after leaving are we released to practice true graciousness to ourselves and others. It's like we make friends with ourselves again. The man behind the mask, face to face with our own stupidity, pride and selfishness. We realize how impoverished in spirit we are, how broken and wounded. Once out of that system we no longer have a group-pride, group-superiority to hide behind.

So you can write those kind words about my heart of love, humility and courage and yet I KNOW I can certainly be an airhead and stupid. I know sometimes I have no desire to go on and cry too many tears, experience too many nightmares and panic attacks, so paralyzed with fear and lack faith and trust in my dear Lord. I think as painful as this process is; this process of leaving that it is a gift. Brennan Manning said "What is denied cannot be healed." We have been given the opportunity to heal. Erik Sundquist, the founder of Safe Harbor, recommended the book "The Wounded Healer" by Henri Nouwen. Erik was my counselor when I first left GG. Nouwen wrote "true grace and healing are communicated through the vulnerability of men and women who have been fractured and heartbroken by life." I think this is the key difference for those of us who have left GG and those who remain. The masks we were forced to wear while participating in that system hid our wounds and vulnerability.

It is a hard system to let go of and probably much more so for the pastors who are exiting. Which is why I posted the Lake Elsinore letter as it addresses the superiority-complex we lived in. The pastors had to live in superiority and not vulnerability. The whole darn thing is completely contrary to true Christianity. We don't know the heart of each individual leader, only God does, but I am sure many are faced with the same challenges as we are. The challenge of getting that old system out of our heads and hearts, of laying down our masks and being vulnerable, with our wounds exposed. I truly believe the healing is in the wound. In accepting and acknowledging the wound and keeping it visible is grace, for ourselves and for others. Only then can God do the supernatural and move among us. Anything outside of that kind of operation is "men in iron masks" working to tally up their great feats in God's name. All the while, pulling others into their bondage, serving a system and making us all pretenders. Thank God we are free.

"In Love's service, only wounded soldiers can serve"
~Thornton Wilder"