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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - POF Rogue: sub-6lbs 308
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Posted: 1/20/2020 12:24:18 PM EDT
Just saw this. Not sure how it will feel to shoot at less than 6 lbs. And the DI Revolution was already super lightweight. How did they drop a whole pound? It looks like some of the ambi controls are gone, so maybe going to forged receivers is where the weight savings came in?
MSRP of $1799, but it looks like the street price will be around $1500-1600 (there are several online merchants with it already listed as out of stock). Patriot Ordnance Factory releases the lightest .308 AR in the world POF-USA is proud to announce the Rogue, an ultra-light carbine weighing in at under 6 pounds. Using the highly acclaimed Revolution design, the Rogue is the same size as the AR-15, yet chambered in the .308 battle rifle cartridge. The Rogue comes either as a full size carbine utilizing a 16.5" barrel, or in pistol form with a 12.5" barrel. The carbine weighs just 5.9 pounds, while the pistol weighs a mere 5.7 pounds. These weights are almost a full pound lighter than the class-leading Revolution DI. "These extreme weight savings were accomplished without needless lightening cuts commonly seen as weight saving measures" says Frank DeSomma, head patriot at POF-USA, "and by using forged receivers, we've also cut the price significantly compared to our Revolution models." The Rogue boasts some extremely useful features and innovations commonly seen from POF-USA. These include many parts interchangeable with the AR-15 platform such as buffer, bolt carrier charging handle, and barrel nut, even though it shoots the .308 cartridge. The Rogue features an ambidextrous QD endplate, ambidextrous selector, Renegade hand guard & heat sink barrel nut, and match grade stainless steel barrel with the single port Micro-B muzzle brake.  POF-USA Rogue ETA: They've added it to their website. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:02:58 PM EDT
[#1]
I frequently shoot a 4lb 12oz Kimber Adirondack in 308 and it’s a pussycat with a brake or suppressor. Semi should be even less.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:03:37 PM EDT
[#2]
That's pretty light. I love seeing the platforms continue to evolve.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:05:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Damn. You have my interest POF particularly at $1500 street price.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:06:07 PM EDT
[#4]
I built a AR10 pistol in 308 last year. I don't know the weight but its fun to shoot.
ETA: I just weighed it. 8 lbs 14 oz and that is with an EoTech, an Eotech Magnifier w/throw mount, BUIS, brake, and ambi CH |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:07:14 PM EDT
[#5]
POF always understates the actual weight. Add another 8oz to whatever they publish.
With that said, I’m excited to see it. Their guns are a bit ugly but mine have all run fantastically well and been very accurate. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:20:52 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm interested.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:26:57 PM EDT
[#7]
If this is actually under 6#, I might get one to replace my 16in Grendel for hunting Bou and Blk bear.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:28:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
POF always understates the actual weight. Add another 8oz to whatever they publish. With that said, I’m excited to see it. Their guns are a bit ugly but mine have all run fantastically well and been very accurate. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:32:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Can the SCAR guys come find a way to take a giant crap in this thread like they do in ours??
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:35:10 PM EDT
[#10]
That weight number is awesome. They need to offer it in a 6.5 Creedmoor.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:35:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve heard this before, that they can be a little optimistic with their weights. I have no firsthand experience either way, but it’s been said more than a few times.
...but I do have firsthand experience and put their rifles on a scale to confirm. It’s my belief that they weigh the rifles without the stock, muzzle device, or detachable rail sections. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:36:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can the SCAR guys come find a way to take a giant crap in this thread like they do in ours?? 
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:37:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can the SCAR guys come find a way to take a giant crap in this thread like they do in ours??
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:38:31 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, it might just be me saying it over and over again every time a POF thread pops up.
...but I do have firsthand experience and put their rifles on a scale to confirm. It’s my belief that they weigh the rifles without the stock, muzzle device, or detachable rail sections. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’ve heard this before, that they can be a little optimistic with their weights. I have no firsthand experience either way, but it’s been said more than a few times.
...but I do have firsthand experience and put their rifles on a scale to confirm. It’s my belief that they weigh the rifles without the stock, muzzle device, or detachable rail sections. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 1:40:11 PM EDT
[#15]
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Attached File|
Posted: 1/20/2020 1:51:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted:
1/8 twist stainless barrel??? WTF 
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421435/258D4677-3C15-4217-BFAA-87B7FEEC9812_png-1242209.JPG |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:14:20 PM EDT
[#17]
I'll take a pistol in 8.6 BLK plz.
ETA: They must have sold very few Revolutions and lowered MSRP on the Rogue? Local shop showing $2600 for the Revolution pistol. 
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:14:36 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's wrong with that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1/8 twist stainless barrel??? WTF
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421435/258D4677-3C15-4217-BFAA-87B7FEEC9812_png-1242209.JPG 
I will say a large frame that’s really light is a beast to shoot well. Fundamentals have to be completely dialed in and extremely consistent. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:17:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You stole my words.
I will say a large frame that’s really light is a beast to shoot well. Fundamentals have to be completely dialed in and extremely consistent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1/8 twist stainless barrel??? WTF
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421435/258D4677-3C15-4217-BFAA-87B7FEEC9812_png-1242209.JPG
I will say a large frame that’s really light is a beast to shoot well. Fundamentals have to be completely dialed in and extremely consistent. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:17:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, it might just be me saying it over and over again every time a POF thread pops up.
...but I do have firsthand experience and put their rifles on a scale to confirm. It's my belief that they weigh the rifles without the stock, muzzle device, or detachable rail sections. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've heard this before, that they can be a little optimistic with their weights. I have no firsthand experience either way, but it's been said more than a few times.
...but I do have firsthand experience and put their rifles on a scale to confirm. It's my belief that they weigh the rifles without the stock, muzzle device, or detachable rail sections. 
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:19:33 PM EDT
[#21]
If you are worried about the recoil come shoot my 6lb Tikka T3 lite in 300 win.
Then shoot the POF. The Rogue looks like a sweet setup. At that price point Im interested.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:26:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If this is actually under 6#, I might get one to replace my 16in Grendel for hunting Bou and Blk bear. To me, the nicest thing about starting lightweight is that I can add accessories like a perst3, thermal, flashlight, silencer, etc without ending up with a 15lbs rifle to hunt hogs with. I would likely never actually use it in its lightest configuration anyway. Completely outfitted, this will likely weigh about the same as my naked aero 308 AR. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:26:45 PM EDT
[#23]
Nice, I want one
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:30:56 PM EDT
[#24]
A tungsten buffer makes a big difference in felt recoil IMO. Use the weight savings as an opportunity to add one.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:47:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You stole my words.
I will say a large frame that’s really light is a beast to shoot well. Fundamentals have to be completely dialed in and extremely consistent. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1/8 twist stainless barrel??? WTF
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/421435/258D4677-3C15-4217-BFAA-87B7FEEC9812_png-1242209.JPG
I will say a large frame that’s really light is a beast to shoot well. Fundamentals have to be completely dialed in and extremely consistent. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:54:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You stole my words.
I will say a large frame that’s really light is a beast to shoot well. Fundamentals have to be completely dialed in and extremely consistent. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 2:57:25 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn. You have my interest POF particularly at $1500 street price. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:00:13 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have a 12" grendel that the 12.5" pistol version of this would augment (not replace). Honestly it is probably lighter than the grendel. To me, the nicest thing about starting lightweight is that I can add accessories like a perst3, thermal, flashlight, silencer, etc without ending up with a 15lbs rifle to hunt hogs with. I would likely never actually use it in its lightest configuration anyway. Completely outfitted, this will likely weigh about the same as my naked aero 308 AR. My loaded 12.5 AR with Dbal D2, light, and can weighs about 12 lb. it’s a pig. If I were to add a thermal? WOOOOF. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:23:16 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That weight number is awesome. They need to offer it in a 6.5 Creedmoor. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:34:47 PM EDT
[#30]
It would be amazing in 6.5 Creedmoor.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:40:42 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would be amazing in 6.5 Creedmoor. Ultralight large frame 6.5mm with a short gas system. 
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:44:34 PM EDT
[#32]
It is amazing what they are doing, and the prices they are doing it at.
Good to see. I might buy one. It will give me an excuse to buy D-50s to feed it. I'm thinking I will get the pistol version and snag a rifle upper so I can switch between configurations. I know everyone talks shit about people wish casting, but I'd like to see a .338 federal upper. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 3:47:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If this is actually under 6#, I might get one to replace my 16in Grendel for hunting Bou and Blk bear. Just build an UL one? |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 5:06:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There's a guy on one of the mountain hunting forums who built a 3lb 2oz Grendel with a 16" barrel. Just build an UL one? |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 5:39:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's wrong with that? 1/8 is nonsense. FN > POF |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:15:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You don’t even need a 1/9 for a 300WM throwing 200-215 grain pills. A 1/10 is fine. 1/8 is nonsense. FN > POF Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What's wrong with that? 1/8 is nonsense. FN > POF |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:22:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What about transonic projectiles at long range? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's wrong with that? 1/8 is nonsense. FN > POF |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:26:16 PM EDT
[#38]
 Attached Filei have last years rev-di.it is a interestingly accurate gun.it has a adj gb that is supposed to lighten recoil,however my gun must not be broken it yet because,i have 350 rds thru it and still have to run the gb wide open.that means a pretty brutal recoil.i called pof and they said by 500 rds i should be able to turn the gas down,so..well see.other than that,i have had zero malfs with this gun.the f&f are fantastic and the weight it pretty crazy.i will say it total honesty that my colt 901 is much smoother shooting though.if they make the rogue in 6.5 ill buy one,although colt makes a 6.5 upper for the 901,im not sure colt will be around in 10yrs to rebuild it. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:27:30 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You don't even need a 1/9 for a 300WM throwing 200-215 grain pills. A 1/10 is fine. 1/8 is nonsense. FN > POF It may be that the 1:8 is the twist rate for a 6.5cm version, and the release just switched the numbers accidentally. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:33:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice, I want one |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:34:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
This may also be a typo. Their 6.5 Creedmoor Revolution DI has a 1:8 twist and their 308 is 1:10. It may be that the 1:8 is the twist rate for a 6.5cm version, and the release just switched the numbers accidentally. |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:36:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/319906/pof308_jpg-1242576.JPG i have last years rev-di.it is a interestingly accurate gun.it has a adj gb that is supposed to lighten recoil,however my gun must not be broken it yet because,i have 350 rds thru it and still have to run the gb wide open.that means a pretty brutal recoil.i called pof and they said by 500 rds i should be able to turn the gas down,so..well see.other than that,i have had zero malfs with this gun.the f&f are fantastic and the weight it pretty crazy.i will say it total honesty that my colt 901 is much smoother shooting though.if they make the rogue in 6.5 ill buy one,although colt makes a 6.5 upper for the 901,im not sure colt will be around in 10yrs to rebuild it.  Attached File  ETA: they've posted the Rogue product page on their website. The high res photo seems to show a non-Dictator adjustable gas block, and the page makes no mention of it. I wonder what that does to the ability to run it suppressed/unsuppressed. Why wouldn't they include that? It seems like an integral part of the system that makes it what it is. Of course, maybe as the guy above me indicates... it doesn't do much anyway? |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:43:15 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The release video and photos don't seem to show the adjustable gas block, and there is no mention of it in the features. I wonder if moving to a standard low profile gas block was part of the weight savings? It could just be that the release info/photos are misleading, though. We'll see. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/435611/pof_rogue_JPG-1242593.JPG https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/e9be31a7ec8c8b8fe9c976745bd39c8f/400.jpeg https://pof-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Rogue.png Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/319906/pof308_jpg-1242576.JPG i have last years rev-di.it is a interestingly accurate gun.it has a adj gb that is supposed to lighten recoil,however my gun must not be broken it yet because,i have 350 rds thru it and still have to run the gb wide open.that means a pretty brutal recoil.i called pof and they said by 500 rds i should be able to turn the gas down,so..well see.other than that,i have had zero malfs with this gun.the f&f are fantastic and the weight it pretty crazy.i will say it total honesty that my colt 901 is much smoother shooting though.if they make the rogue in 6.5 ill buy one,although colt makes a 6.5 upper for the 901,im not sure colt will be around in 10yrs to rebuild it. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/435611/pof_rogue_JPG-1242593.JPG https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/e9be31a7ec8c8b8fe9c976745bd39c8f/400.jpeg https://pof-usa.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Rogue.png |
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:45:33 PM EDT
[#44]
i also noticed that the rail is shorter.mine came with a 15 incher.
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Posted: 1/20/2020 6:54:52 PM EDT
[#45]
So if there's no Dictator gas block, what I imagine happened was:
Marketing guys: hmm... well, do we just release it as an updated version of the Revolution DI? These changes don't really drop enough weight or price to justify a new model. Marketing guys: wait, what if we sold it without the Dictator gas block, no ambi controls, no upgraded trigger, and only offered it in black? That would be a full pound difference from the existing model and we could sell it as the "budget" option - a new model entirely, instead of pissing existing owners off by updating the gun they just bought a year after releasing it. Management: Let's do that. Nevermind. I've changed my mind about the order of events. It was clearly: Management: We have upcoming competition undercutting our price point [Saint Victor 308 pistol]. How do we make a cheaper version? Engineers: We could remove the Dictator Gas block, upgraded trigger, and cerakote option, as well as the ambi controls built into the receiver, which would actually allow us to move to forged instead of billet. Marketing guys: Yeah! that would bring down the cost significantly. Oh, and without those options, it weights a full pound less! Let's market it as a lighter model that also happens to be cheaper due to forged receivers. ... POF USA: Meet the Rogue. [D]Evolution of the Revolution!
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Posted: 1/20/2020 9:10:44 PM EDT
[#46]
POF's gen 4 ambi bolt release and bolt hold open are what made me want a revolution.
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Posted: 1/22/2020 6:48:00 PM EDT
[#47]
The 1/8 twist rate is not a typo. I asked POF if the Rogue twist rate would be 1-8 for .308
“That is correct, the ideal grain weight range for that will be 155gr to 180gr.” 
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Posted: 1/22/2020 6:57:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if there's no Dictator gas block, what I imagine happened was: Marketing guys: hmm... well, do we just release it as an updated version of the Revolution DI? These changes don't really drop enough weight or price to justify a new model. Marketing guys: wait, what if we sold it without the Dictator gas block, no ambi controls, no upgraded trigger, and only offered it in black? That would be a full pound difference from the existing model and we could sell it as the "budget" option - a new model entirely, instead of pissing existing owners off by updating the gun they just bought a year after releasing it. Management: Let's do that. Nevermind. I've changed my mind about the order of events. It was clearly: Management: We have upcoming competition undercutting our price point [Saint Victor 308 pistol]. How do we make a cheaper version? Engineers: We could remove the Dictator Gas block, upgraded trigger, and cerakote option, as well as the ambi controls built into the receiver, which would actually allow us to move to forged instead of billet. Marketing guys: Yeah! that would bring down the cost significantly. Oh, and without those options, it weights a full pound less! Let's market it as a lighter model that also happens to be cheaper due to forged receivers. ... POF USA: Meet the Rogue. [D]Evolution of the Revolution!
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Posted: 1/22/2020 6:58:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 1/8 twist rate is not a typo. I asked POF if the Rogue twist rate would be 1-8 for .308
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Posted: 1/22/2020 10:03:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't get me wrong, I like the direction they have taken the 308 platform and I may even end up with one of these Rogues, but man, a lot of their "features" come across as snake oil and Frank the owner is cringy AF with a condescending used car salesman vibe in all his videos. After all, he's the only rifle manufacturer to have figured out the magic of the "super special patented game-changing heat sink barrel nut". Frank seems goofy because he’s an engineer. I’ve been around a lot of engineers and nearly all of them are “special.” |
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - POF Rogue: sub-6lbs 308
(Page 1 of 2)
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