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ONKYO RZ50 is this true???

38K views 45 replies 27 participants last post by  petethekiller 
#1 ·
Was watching Youtube and came across a video regarding the RZ50, which I'm planning on getting or was, not so sure at the moment. I came across a comment I quoted below, I was going to do exactly what he tried. Get a 3 channel amp for my front sound stage and run 4 atmos speakers.(7.2.4) According to his comment you can't do this ??? So now I'm thinking maybe I just look for a better AVR since I'll have to double my amp budget like he did. This seems crazy and I hope this comment is incorrect.


"I just got an RZ-50 after doing much research. Had to wait not only for this but for different pieces of my 7.1.4 setup. I have a complaint. I knew I needed an ext amp to get full atmos. After research, I learned that getting a very good ext amp for the front was the way to go because the front stage is the heart. I got an emotiva XPA 3 channel amp thinking that the RZ-50 would handle the remaining 8 channels. Egg in my face when I realized there was no height#2 speaker connector and the zone connectors cannot be assigned. Why would you design something like this? I wasn't going to use the expensive emotiva to run surround speakers. I was forced to purchase a 2nd ext amp in order to accomplish this by pre outing the surr backs and using those as the heights #2. The RZ-50 has processing for 11 channels, and you chose 2 of those channels to be a zone that cannot be assigned to what you need. And nowhere did I here this on any review. I guess most people only use 2 atmos speakers so they don't come across this issue. Had I known this, I would have bought a 4 or 5-channel ext amp instead of having 2 ext amps and 1 avr. I looked and noticed pioneer and onkyo both have this design. Better to charge 4100 more and add the height#2 connector. "
 
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#2 ·
Onkyo is dead. The RZ50 which measures terribly according to ASR review was their last attempt to revive the company. Instead of the failed RZ50, better get the new Denon X3800H with 4 independent subwoofers output (vs 1 in the Z50), and full Dirac live with bass control upgradability (Dirac live in the RZ50 is very limited).

RZ50 review:

X3700H review:


The X3800H is expected to have even better performance due to upgraded DSP and DACs.
 
#4 ·
@InsidiousWOLF this is common among receivers, sadly that owner didn't read the rz50 thread before he purchased and is now blaming Onkyo.

The rz50 will run your theater just fine. If you have 4ohm speakers, a large theater, sit more than 12ft back or you like to play it loud for long periods, then get a 3 channel amp for the front LCR and 2 more to expand to 7.2.4. That = 5 channel amp. Pioneer and Integra are under the same ownership, the lx505 and Integra drx-5.4 are the cousins to the rz50.

Aren't you glad you did your homework?
 
#5 ·
The RZ50 has full pre-outs. So you can definitely run a separate amp to power your Front L & R and Center if you so choose to.

You just can't reassign the internal amps to power the surround backs if doing a 7.x.4 setup, you'll need a external amp for that.
 
#14 ·
I can't wait for more data on Dirac vs. Audyssey XT32. In my testing for stereo music (using Dirac PC trial) I've found XT32 sounds better (after fixing Audyssey issues/correcting target curves/timing calculations), but there's an assumption that Dirac is better, which I'd like to see more data on. I also use MiniDSP/MSO for subwoofer integration, so you don't strictly need DLBC for good sub integration.
 
#19 ·
Lets be honest - there is no assumption. Marantz/Denon would not have abandoned Audyssey after all these years if the superiority of Dirac over Audyssey was "an assumption".

You cant use MSO in the defense of Audyssey because MSO can also be used to approve upon DLBC. Compare DLBC directly with Audyssey's bass management outside of using MSO and one will find one advanced in fuction and the other one woefully inept requring the well know "distance tweak" to correct its native butchering of bass frequencies. Even prior to DLBC, the two weren't remotely close. With that said, I spoke with a friend who is regarded as one of the MSO gurus here and he stated that DLBC was accurate to the point that it wasn't worth the effort to even bother with MSO anymore unless someone was really trying to squeeze the last ounce out of seat to seat bass consistancy. That was literally music to my ears since I am in an accoustically challanged room in a 4 sub environment.

You also stated that Audyssey sounds better only after you tweak (nearly everything). So I must ask you....if its such a great RC then why all the need for change? Dirac is simple and all that is required is seasoing the target curve to ones liking which is fast and painless. Audyssey will die a slow, painful death. Their existance now relies on their current auto contracts renewing. D&M moving to Dirac just shredded their revenue base.

This was not intended as a personal bash so please don't take it that way. I was once an Audyssey fan until I heard my room under Dirac control. The adoption of Dirac by D&M is an answer to prayers. I have had nothing but headaches with boutique brands over the past four years but that was the only way to get Dirac Live initially. Seeing the juggernauts come onboard is such good news especially after being a diehard D&M fan for decades. Seriously, this is a marriage made in heaven as far as I am concerned.

Now I can get the reliability, bug-free code, mature menu interface, and warmth of that classic D&M sound now coupled with Dirac. I probably shouldn't have mentioned "warmth" as that will trigger a tyriad of other arguments/comments :) But anyways, I hope you get a chance to try Dirac Live again. I think if you spend some time with it you will become a fan. You obviously are a true hobbyist based on your post. Me thinks your gonna like it :)
 
#21 ·
I can't wait to see if and when Onkyo releases they're RZ50 successors, whether is the RZ 70, 80 or 90. I could see it having the latest version of Dirac and 11 ch built in power,
[/QUOTE]

Anyone know when that will be ??? I was hoping it would have been mentioned along with all the other big drops, but so far I haven’t heard anything.
 
#23 ·
Was watching Youtube and came across a video regarding the RZ50, which I'm planning on getting or was, not so sure at the moment. I came across a comment I quoted below, I was going to do exactly what he tried. Get a 3 channel amp for my front sound stage and run 4 atmos speakers.(7.2.4) According to his comment you can't do this ??? So now I'm thinking maybe I just look for a better AVR since I'll have to double my amp budget like he did. This seems crazy and I hope this comment is incorrect.
Ensure you read the Onkyo RZ-50 manual thoroughly as it outlines all relevant speaker setups and requirements for external amplification. If you're doing something different (like the LCR on external amplification) you would need to factor for that. You would want to compare that with the new Denons and reviewing their user manuals as well, there are some very minor nuances that only really are described in the user manuals that for some people could make or break a purchase.

It remains to be seen how readily available the new Denons are and how much the Dirac upgrade is (and when it will be released). Given the Onkyo (and Integra/Pioneers) were incredibly difficult to get and shipments were delayed for months I wouldn't be so eager to discount them depending on your requirements. At least, in Australia they are estimating they would arrive 02/2023 (so 1/2 year from now).

With regards to Dirac Live the choice seems to be get Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer now and pair it with a UMIK-1/2 and a laptop to really dial it in; the lack of independent subwoofers is not a big deal at this range's AVR price point IMHO and you can pair with something like SVS's Pro subwoofers + apps and REW (or MiniDSP) to fine tune it. To be honest if you needed independent subwoofers you would ensure you got the right AVR from the start. Sometimes people get bogged down in the minutia over features they may never actually use, for myself day to day reliability is more important and the Onkyo provides enough initial flexibility to get the job done. I question how long Auro 3D is going to be supported given the parent company recently filed for bankruptcy, particularly if they aren't making much progress vs Dolby Atmos.
 
#25 ·
Was watching Youtube and came across a video regarding the RZ50, which I'm planning on getting or was, not so sure at the moment. I came across a comment I quoted below, I was going to do exactly what he tried. Get a 3 channel amp for my front sound stage and run 4 atmos speakers.(7.2.4) According to his comment you can't do this ??? So now I'm thinking maybe I just look for a better AVR since I'll have to double my amp budget like he did. This seems crazy and I hope this comment is incorrect.


"I just got an RZ-50 after doing much research. Had to wait not only for this but for different pieces of my 7.1.4 setup. I have a complaint. I knew I needed an ext amp to get full atmos. After research, I learned that getting a very good ext amp for the front was the way to go because the front stage is the heart. I got an emotiva XPA 3 channel amp thinking that the RZ-50 would handle the remaining 8 channels. Egg in my face when I realized there was no height#2 speaker connector and the zone connectors cannot be assigned. Why would you design something like this? I wasn't going to use the expensive emotiva to run surround speakers. I was forced to purchase a 2nd ext amp in order to accomplish this by pre outing the surr backs and using those as the heights #2. The RZ-50 has processing for 11 channels, and you chose 2 of those channels to be a zone that cannot be assigned to what you need. And nowhere did I here this on any review. I guess most people only use 2 atmos speakers so they don't come across this issue. Had I known this, I would have bought a 4 or 5-channel ext amp instead of having 2 ext amps and 1 avr. I looked and noticed pioneer and onkyo both have this design. Better to charge 4100 more and add the height#2 connector. "
You are right, the last 2 channels are not internal amp powered - hence those people looking for an optimum setup have often chosen a 5 channel external amp, using it for front L/C/R and rear heights.

But I don't believe the Denon is any different is it?
 
#29 ·
Final comment - currently the RZ50 (and its brethren) is the best value way of getting a high quality Dirac Live setup.

I am waiting for value options with regards to DLBC or (even better) SRC....

That may end up being X3800 + SRC or the yet to be released Onkyo RZ70/90 - where the pricing / value ends up between them, it is too early to tell - and it may well be impacted by exchange rates, logistics, etc...

Based on the rumours, we are unlikely to see DLBC for the Denon's before mid 2023...

Which gives Onkyo some time to finally get its act together and release the Flagship models - here's hoping! - competition is good, and leaving the field to Denon alone, will be bad for value for everyone.
 
#32 ·
I would guess in future years, Denon will just include Dirac in all their higher end models. Makes sense from a financial point of view. I would guess getting full Dirac might add a couple hundred to the cost. Look at it from Dirac's viewpoint. What's better? getting $649 or $800 from maybe 10% of Denon owners? Or getting $200 from every Denon owner?
 
#33 ·
Just saw that RSL Speakers actually has the RZ50's in stock
 
#34 ·
While quite a bit more expensive than the xpa3. This would be an ideal solution.


You get all of the benefits of the rz50 with none of the draw backs.

I run a 7 channel setup and use a 5 channel amp. Driving one surround channel with the rz50.

However, a 5 channel amp would be perfectly suitable for this setup.

Go to build your own power amp on emotiva.
you could do a 3-1s. Which would be fairly cost effective.
 
#35 ·
No guarantee it will be the same, but when I bought Dirac full with Bass control for my AVR5, they had an intro pricing break that made it about half the current list price. Maybe the Denon's will do the same to entice people to upgrade.

FWIW, ASR widely pans the Arcams but I've honestly never heard my system sound better and I've owned Denon, pioneer, and minidsp ddrc88a using dirac before this.
 
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#37 ·
On either the Onkyo or Denon, I would use external amps foe all 7 speakers but could I use 2 receiver amps to add 2 ceiling atmos speakers?
 
#38 ·
Also my room dimensions are almost perfect and I have 2 subs symmetrically placed so I dont think the Onkyo having only mono base correction would be an issue for Dirac (if I'm reading you right).

Also, I purchased Dirac for my now dead Emotiva 7-8 years ago...is the license transferable to the Denon? That would make the decision easy.

My room is so close to ideal dimensions with MAJOR accoustic treatments. I dont know if that would make Audessy good enough vs Denon.

My goal is to replace the Emotiva affordably and add 2 ceiling speakers for atmos (this is less critical if its too hard to use 2 of the receivers amp channels for atmos). I not as tech savvy as you and dont know the potential issues.

Cant afford Denon with pricey Dirac and mike.
 
#43 ·
I thought I would try a post to this older thread. I am wishing I could swing an RZ50 but it is a bit out of my price range. I am considering an Integra DRX-3.2 and was hoping I could get some comparisons from the folks here that know more than I do. I am really looking to do a 9.2 setup on a budget. My speakers are all Klipsch which I also picked up on sale or used. I am trading up from my Onkyo TC-NR656.
 
#44 ·
I run an Integra DRX 3.4, which is basically an RZ50 minus two channels... if you don't need the pre-outs, then there is the NR7100 or Pioneer LX305... all of these have Dirac.

If you are OK going without Dirac (and using AccuEQ, MCACC instead) - then the NR6100, LX205, DRX 2.4....

The previous generation AVR's (like the 3.2) will be similar to the current generation versions but without Dirac - only AccuEQ... and there should be some bargains out there.
 
#46 ·
Currently owning a RZ50, Denon 960H, A Marantz 8802a preamp, Emotiva RMC_1L and just recently an Arcam AV41...... The Onkyo sounds great and if properly set up will run you out of the room with my Aperion Grand Versus 7.2.4 system I am using 2 Adcom amplifiers so I have 5 speakers with external amplification. I feel this unit sounds light years better than the Marantz it replaced. Much more detailed and defined. Vocal clarity is light years better than my Marantz it replaced. The Denon does one thing well, set up is easy and it just works.... The other units take more work to set up but the sound quality is night and day different. Of my pile of equipment, though the most frustrating to set up but the best sounding is clearly the Arcam. The Emotiva and Arcam sound very similar but I feel the Arcam processes the surround modes with more precision. In 2 channel mode, they are very close, the RZ50 is not far behind.... The D and M products just dont sound good to me.
 
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