Community for discussion of the HBO documentary Leaving Neverland and related topics. Please keep debate/commentary respectful and be mindful that this is a community in support of James, Wade and all other victims.
Wade and James - Leaving Neverland
I thought I remembered everything, but I guess not. I do remember just the overall feeling of sadness. I recalled thinking originally that James and Wade are so courageous, and how in classic abuser fashion, MJ really just came on the scene and manipulated and took over their lives. I always knew in the back of my mind that there had to be something going on for there to be so many accusations and settlements throughout the years, but I vividly remember watching it with my mother and how shocked we were when Wade says that MJ assaulted him. I’m neutral about MJ ( I was always a Prince fan) but I really wanted to believe that there was some truth to the “I never had a childhood” excuse. I think the obsessive plastic surgery and drug addiction are indicative of deep rooted pain and/or some past trauma. Could it have been Joseph’s abuse? Was it his brothers’ envy of his tremendous talent that led them to tease him incessantly calling him “Gay” and “Big Nose” and “Crater Face” I’m not making excuses, just trying to understand why he would do such horrible things to children. Anyway you look at it: children are abused, everyone gets teased. His brothers and Janet ( and I guess LaToya too lol) were robbed of their childhoods, and as far as I know they are not pedophiles. It’s just so hard for me still to wrap my head around the truth. When his music comes on in public, I immediately say to whoever I’m around that I haven’t discussed LN with “Did you watch Leaving Neverland?” You realize he was a child abuser and r*apist right?”Most of the time the answer is “No.” I’m surprised that so many people still think he was misunderstood Peter Pan. You have to wonder why, after the Chandler accusations, he didn’t just say “whew close call” and stop what he was doing? He seemed to enjoy the deception and of course, he couldn’t control his impulses. He was rich and famous most of his life. He could go anywhere in the world and be known, meet whoever he desired to. Not just celebrities, but royalty, heads of state, probably Jesus if he wanted! Just had to get this out there. Thanks for reading.
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After seeing LN multiple times and completing both the Telephone Stories and Think Twice podcasts, I think anybody that thinks Michael Jackson wasn’t a pedophile and a predator is naive and delusional. His behaviors more than spoke for themselves, including:
-Laughing during the police interrogation/deposition for the 1993 case.
-Telling Diane Sawyer he wouldn’t stop having children in his bed and staunchly defended it to be a beautiful thing.
-Getting on top of the limo to wave to his swarms of fans at some point before the 2005 trial.
It’s not unreasonable to expect a public figure that is being accused of pretty horrible crimes to take this seriously. MJ was an emotional grifter and a mass manipulator.
I’ve listened to Telephone Stories and Think Twice as well. Naive and delusional is a little harsh, he fooled a lot of people for a long time, but everyone has an opinion. I think the laughing during the interrogation (I thought it was a deposition?) seemed drug related to me.
A lot of people are misinformed because there's a really big misinformation campaign about the whole MJ case.
Well, after alot of looking in to things i guess he was ' made' this way. Bobby Taylor saying Michael slept with him 10 days ( looking more creepy then when Michael says it) perhaps triggered it.
2 his brothers havingsex with him in the room
3 the brutal beatings he did get. Not allowed to call his father daddy but Joe.
4 from Stacy Brown quoting i believe Jermaine/Johnny Jackson that little Michael was going to late meetings with Hollywood/music big shots and afterwards he was al quiet and withdrawn.
And 5 i think might also play a role is the Pepsi burn wich started his pain killers addiction. The burn was before he took Emanuel Lewis to the grammies. Im not justifying, but perhaps being drugged up changed his behavior/ lowered his judgement. People failed Jordy Wade Gavin etc but people also failed young Michael wich makes the story sad all around
Thats not how it works. Getting abused as a child doesn’t turn a person from being a victim into an abuser. Neither do pain killers. All of Michael’s siblings grew up in the same family, with the same issues and none of them were ever accused of this stuff.
I agree. I remember hearing that narrative is super harmful because it makes survivors much more hesitant to come out about their abuse since they would never want people to think they might've done the same thing.
And I've done pain killers and and it absolutely would not make someone more likely to molest anyone. If anything, people that are abusing any sorta pain killers usually have a much lower sex drive.
to be fair, jermaine has a rape accusation
I also rewatched it recently and something occurred to me: Jimmy’s mother supports her son’s story by saying he indicated to her that he was molested, back in the mid/early 2000’s.
Now, MJ’s supporters will simply dismiss her as a liar who wants to support her money-grubbing son, *but* it’s not the most self serving lie, as it makes her look like a *terrible person,* because either:
a) People *will* believe her and she looks terrible for not protecting her child from a predator.
or
b) People *won’t* believe and she looks terrible for being complicit in the smearing of wonderful man’s reputation.
It’s more believable that she’s willing to come forward and accept she‘s a bad mother as it helps with her son’s healing.
Nothing about her made me think she was in any way a malicious person.