Episode #165: 'Innovative Strategies for Advanced Energy Efficiency Goals' with Paula Glover, President of the Alliance to Save Energy [an Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast]

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Thanks to the sponsor of this episode of the Energy Central Power Perspectives Podcast: West Monroe. 

Key Links:

Episode #126: 'Adopting Marketing Lessons to Implement Energy Equity' with Larry Glover, CEO of Glover Group [an Energy Central Power Perspectives™ Podcast]: https://energycentral.com/o/energy-central/episode-126-traversing-utility-esg-journey-christine-waller-vice-president

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TRANSCRIPT

Jason Price:

Welcome to the fourth season of the Energy Central Power Perspectives podcast. We bring leading minds from the energy industry into the podcast booth to discuss the challenges and trends that are transforming and modernizing our energy system. And now our listeners can submit a recorded question to a future podcast episode. Just look for the SpeakPipe link in the show notes below this episode, and leave us a voicemail with a question for our future guest. And a quick thank you to West Monroe, our sponsor of today's show. Now let's talk energy.

I am Jason Price, Energy Central podcast host and director with West Monroe, coming to you from New York City. And with me as always from Orlando, Florida is Energy Central producer and community manager, Matt Chester. Matt, the topic of today's conversation is energy efficiency, and it's a topic that goes deeper and wider than some may realize, as energy efficiency isn't just convincing customers to turn the lights off or upgrade to more efficient washers, but it represents utility programs, public policy, and true infrastructural changes for the power sector. Matt, looking at the Energy Central Energy Efficiency community, what are some of the recent central themes you've seen?

Matt Chester:

That's a great question, Jason, and I always love any reason to survey where the Energy Central trends are sitting. And so today when I look at the Energy Efficiency group on energycentral.com, the dominant themes thus far in 2024 have been in new energy efficiency technologies for the home and for the grid, efficiency goals from policymakers, building energy use as an overall focus area, and then of course general strategies to minimize energy waste. The community is clearly eager to discuss efficiency and even more so to learn from experts in that space. That's what makes today's episode so exciting, I think.

Jason Price:

Yeah, agreed. Thanks, Matt. That provides some great context and sets us up well to welcome our guests to the show today. Joining us will be the President of the Alliance to Save Energy, Paula Glover. Paula has built a career advocating for equity, affordability and efficiency across the utility industry. And so I know she's going to have some key messages to deliver to our audience. And not only is she one of the foremost leaders in energy efficiency in the industry, but her joining the podcast represents a first for us in making the podcast a family affair. That's because Paula's husband, Larry Glover, was also a guest on the podcast talking about energy equity with us last summer. We'll link that episode in the show notes as well. Please join me in welcoming Paula Glover to the Energy Central Power Perspectives podcast.

Paula Glover:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you about energy efficiency and equity, and I'm particularly excited to be a first on your show and get to follow my husband, who I know was a really good guest. Thank you so much.

Jason Price:

Yeah, and we're thrilled to have you, Paula. For our listeners who maybe aren't yet familiar with the Alliance to Save Energy, can you give us a rundown of the typical members of your organization and what your goals are?

Paula Glover:

Yeah, sure. Would love to do that. The Alliance to Save Energy, for those who are not familiar with us, we are a nonprofit organization headquartered here in Washington DC. We have been around for 47 years, established in 1977 as a bipartisan coalition of businesses, government, environmental organizations, and consumer advocates really working to advance federal energy efficiency policy. And so we have what I like to consider very broad base of memberships. Think your utility companies like PG&E or PSEG, ConEd, Exelon, but also companies like Johnson Control, Honeywell and the like, Diken, equipment manufacturers, Wattsco, financial organizations like Metris. We have a very broad membership, but we're all really focused just on energy efficiency and the power that energy efficiency has in our overall energy landscape. But in today's moment when we've been talking so much about an energy transition and addressing climate change and doing it in an equitable way, we really do believe that energy efficiency is not only the first fuel, but it's a critical element to make that transition work well for all of us.

Jason Price:

Yeah. I'm sure that these past several years have probably been the busiest and most important years of the Alliance's history.

Paula Glover:

It's been really a great couple of years. I've been with the association only three years and I'm absolutely coming at the right time because as you just kind of referenced, for us at the Alliance and what we've seen on the policy side over the last couple of years has really been transformative for us and for our industry.

Jason Price:

Yeah. For sure. And I want to talk about that. When people think of energy efficiency, they immediately think of conservation measures, right? Switching to LED bulbs, improving installation, upgrading to Energy Star rated energy efficient equipment. But in today's landscape, you've been working to expand the idea of efficiency to new areas including demand response, virtual power plants, and other advanced technologies. Can you share with us how can utilities and stakeholders leverage these innovations to optimize energy use and grid performance?

Paula Glover:

Yeah. I think what's so exciting about efficiency very broadly is that it is a traditional passive efficiency measures. I call windows, doors, building envelope insulation, those sort of things that is paired with new technology, smart meters, smart appliances and the like. It is the opportunity to do all of those things, but it presents a challenge in that it requires that utilities and different types of stakeholders have to work together because the reality is that we do need the building envelope to be tight first and then we can add on the additional technology because we're trying to help customers save energy, but we're also trying to make bills affordable. We're trying to add reliability and resiliency to the grid. And because we have these multiple needs, we want to make sure that we're doing things one, in the proper order, but that we're not just skipping to technology and not addressing kind of the basics.

And so utility programs are more creative because it is about how am I thinking about weatherization and other kinds of programs for very low income customers? How am I thinking about debt demand response with maybe my commercial industrial customers? But now you have more customers who want to add solar to their homes or just add a joint community solar, you have more customers who are looking at battery storage. And so there's all kinds of other technologies that are being added. And we know that our economy is growing, which means that demand is continuing to grow. We continue to want more electricity. And so it is really kind of that convergence of all of these stakeholders coming together, some who are leveraging some innovations and different kinds of technology, but typically not the same thing on one grid. And utilities now having to manage that as well as meet their obligations to serve all customers while they see that we have a need for one, a cleaner grid in a time with more storms and all the other things that are going on.

That was a mouthful, but it's this big kind of convergence of all this stuff coming together, but in a really neat way, efficiency has a really unique role to play, and we believe at the Alliance that if we really dial in on efficiency, we can also make a big impact.

Jason Price:

Yeah, absolutely. And just to add another layer to this complexity is that you look at this through the lens of equity, community benefits and the broader social impact. Share with us what strategies does Alliance employ to promote inclusive and equitable access to efficiency programs and technologies, and particularly for the underserved communities?

Paula Glover:

Yeah. One of the things that we really start with is making sure that all voices and perspectives are in the room. Asking ourselves continually who's not there. And just a simple example for us at the Alliance is that we didn't always think about the needs of rural co-ops and that those needs for rural co-ops might be different than our traditional IOU, might be different than our traditional muni. And so over the last year, we've done more to engage the rural electrical co-op world so that we better understand what are they being challenged and impacted by, and how do we ensure that the policies that we are promoting and advocating and educating around to really increase access to efficiency, how do we make sure that our rural communities are also going to be able to take advantage of those kinds of things. And so it's really important that we have all kinds of voices and different voices and that we seek out those who we may, and particularly disagree with or who we think may disagree with us so that we can understand their perspective, what their challenges are, what the goals are, so that we can hopefully work together and find solutions.

We also really take a systems thinking approach to this so that we are not always just siloed in our thinking. And a great example really is this world of demand response and virtual power plants and the adoption of new technology because the ability every community to have access to high speed broadband is what makes all this other stuff work. And so for us as Alliance, we want to make sure the things that we are advocating for can be adopted by all communities. And if there is something that's an infrastructure or something that would make that hard, not that we are the ones who solve that problem, but we absolutely need to give voice and pinpoint it and add voice to how that could be a particular challenge and why that is a particular challenge. And so for us at the Alliance, we take this idea of a coalition very seriously.

And in the work of equity, we are talking about everybody. We're talking about certainly those communities that have been left behind and are most underserved because those are the communities who quite frankly need the most, probably need the most investment. It's not just in our energy infrastructure that they are probably underserved. There are lots of other things that are going on in terms of just basic housing and access to workforce development programs and educational attainment, et cetera, et cetera. And so we take seriously the opportunities that we can create as an industry in those communities, but when we think about equity more broadly, we really are talking about everybody. And so we want to make sure those who live in our poorest urban centers, but those who live in our most rural communities also are getting the same kinds of benefits.

Jason Price:

Right, right. And I guess since you're based in the DC area, the third leg of the stool here is the influence and work you do with policymakers and regulators. What is the relationship that you have with them and can you share with us some of your key areas and challenges, maybe some successes, maybe some areas that could use some additional work to help move the conversation forward with those audiences?

Paula Glover:

Sure. One of the things that makes the Alliance, I think, really unique as an organization is we have an honorary board of advisors that is made up of members of Congress, bicameral and bipartisan. It is led by Senator Gene Shaheen, who's from the state of New Hampshire. We do use that bipartisan group, that honorary board to keep us honest and help us think about how and who we need to be providing information to, what kinds of questions legislators and policymakers may have about various policies, and certainly being able to support pieces and helping to find coalitions and people to support ideas and policies as they come up. That's one of the things that we're always doing, always trying to build relationships and continue relationships, and especially talking across the aisle. What we really want to see as an alliance are policies that are sustainable no matter who is in charge.

And today when we have, I would say a hyper politicized environment, it's even more important that we are that rigorous with our work and that we are really being very, very thoughtful about the policies that we think are going to be helpful and useful for all the folks and the mission and the vision that we have for ourselves, but that we also want to ensure that it's not something that you take advantage in such a way that with one administration you have a win only to see that go away with the new administration. Consistency with these kinds of policies is also really, really important. And then there's some real challenges, and we talked at the beginning that as an alliance, there've been some tremendous rings between the Inflation Reduction Act, the Greenhouse Gas Reduction Fund, and quite frankly, the Infrastructure and Jobs Act. There've been tax credits and home rebates and lots of programs that really do benefit the efficiency community.

Our biggest challenge as an alliance is really a lack of awareness and making sure that consumers and businesses understand what's available, how they can take advantage of it, if it's a tax credit, if it's a rebate, if it's a particular kind of loan, so that they one, take advantage of it, that they understand what that benefit is and that we understand if someone does not see that benefit as enough of an incentive to take advantage, that we as an alliance will understand what that gap is. We already know that efficiency is the workhorse of US climate policy, that we have already been avoiding emissions that would be 78% higher if we had not been making investments in energy efficiency since 1980. I mean, that's based on 2021 data. Last year, November of '23 thereabouts, the Morris Berkeley National Lab and the Brattle Group issued a report that really talked about how the transition and the expansion of electrification has really been focused on supply side solutions and how we're going to generate more electricity.

But that unless we start to think about efficiency and accelerating our investments in energy efficiency, this transition is going to be prohibitive. It's going to be incredibly expensive. And so we do need to, as an alliance, help people to start to reframe the thinking that not using a fuel does not mean A, a lower quality of life, that increased efficiency does not shutter down our economy, but that our economy can continue to grow while we accelerate the investment in energy efficiency. Those things are incredibly important and we want to make sure that right programs are funded effectively, that we think about building codes in a smart way. Today we have a mishmash of building codes because building codes are adopted at the state level.

And so we do need to think about how that's going to work with older buildings that need to be retrofit and then what we do with new construction and how do we think about incentives for building owners who have tenants so that if the tenant is reaping the benefit, but the owner is the one who's making the investment, how do we think about that in terms of what are the incentives that we need? And so for us at the Alliance, those are some of the challenges and things that we're thinking about on the policy realm. But in terms of just educating and building relationships with our policy makers, so much of that is about us listening as an organization to our members and to all of our stakeholders, understanding where we are, where are the successes, where are people seeing challenges or gaps, and then working with other stakeholders in our broader coalition to find solutions to those challenges and gaps so that our main mission and goal is met.

Jason Price:

Paula, much of what I'm hearing is very much aligned with what the utilities also try to address. How are you treated to the eyes of the utilities? How do you interact with them and what's the experience like?

Paula Glover:

I mean, we have tremendous relationships and experience with the utilities, and I come from a utility background. I spent the first 15 years of my career in a utility. I think that may benefit me in some way if there is a challenge, but many utility companies sit on my board of directors, are members of our association. They actively engage with us on our initiatives, and that's including public power and our ECA all across the board. We're trying to really be very, I think, thoughtful and critical in listening to what their challenges are in terms of adoption because while my focus is on the federal level, all of these utilities operate in different jurisdictions and have different kinds of regulatory structures. And so there may be some other challenges that they're seeing and dealing with that is not something that we at the Alliance, that may not be top of mind.

And so we're really very appreciative to our utilities for also that kind of transparency so that we can understand a much broader landscape than we currently function in, but that we can begin to formulate the right kind of policy advice to get us where we believe we need to be.

Jason Price:

Okay. Well, if I may, maybe you could help provide some things that may have been put into action by the utilities. Thinking about how the utilities are a stakeholder in this, and let's say they're listening in on the podcast today around this discussion of energy efficiency. What are some actual steps that you feel that they could take away, that they could prioritize to keep the effort moving? Or are they doing enough as it is?

Paula Glover:

I think there's so much more of that can be done, and I might suggest that there are some utilities that are listening that are doing enough, and there are some who may not be doing anything at all because the utility world is just so big and broad, and I'm talking about electric and gas utility. I want to really be clear, we are fuel neutral, so it really doesn't matter to me what fuel it is. I still think there needs to be efficiency that we start with. But I think for those who are not familiar with the Alliance or not engaged with the Alliance, I would love to have them reach out, reach out to me personally via email or through our website, via LinkedIn. But we would love to be able to engage with as many utilities as we can because we do understand that every jurisdiction can look very different.

Every region is very different, the priorities can be different, the infrastructure is different. And a broad coalition not only benefits me and the Alliance as an organization, but I do think that that really does help benefit all of our partners to one, have better understanding of what's going on and how to move things when they're trying to move things or why something may not be moving in a direction that they believe it should move in, but also so that we can collectively get the right policies in place to again, see this rapid acceleration of energy efficiency. Because I think there's this collective commitment to addressing climate change and doing it in such a way that our consumers benefit not just from cleaner air and a better environment, but quite frankly also from the jobs and the economic strength that efficiency brings to communities. And so we don't want to leave that piece out of the story as well.

Jason Price:

You have a national perspective and a lot of the decisions are made at the state level, but love to hear from you. Are you hearing about, and should we be expecting some interesting energy policies that might be in the upcoming election? Any big decisions that you think are going to be on a federal or state level handed to the voters to decide that we should keep our eyes on?

Paula Glover:

Yeah. My crystal ball is pretty foggy, but I'd be surprised if there was any real big energy policy that we should be thinking about, unless quite frankly, it's permitting reform. I think here in Washington across the board, irrespective of the sector that you work in, renewables, oil and gas, whatever that is, we are all really thinking deeply about permitting reform and understanding that there is a great deal of infrastructure that needs to be built, and there's a lot of money out there and the need for really strong public private partnerships and a lot of folks who want to do some things. And we're just going to have to figure out how we get these kinds of projects permitted in the right way so that we have proper environmental assessments so that communities have an opportunity to understand what the project is and have their voices heard. And it's a hard job, but I think that is the one thing that we as an entire industry agree needs to be a priority. And if something were to move, it might be that, but I don't know that that's something that would move this year.

Jason Price:

Yes. Permitting is such a big issue, no doubt about that.

Paula Glover:

Yeah, just...

Jason Price:

It never ends.

Paula Glover:

Yeah.

Jason Price:

And it's not an easy issue to overcome, whether it's on the transmission level or on the local level.

Paula Glover:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think that's right. The biggest unsolved problems are unsolved because they are just so difficult. But I would say that the bigger unsolved problem really is what are we going to do to address what we're seeing in terms of climate and storms and a grid that is not resilient enough and an economy that requires more and more energy. We saw over the last, what, several weeks in our article in the Washington Post about the drain on power that not only data centers, but our use of AI is going to have on our existing power resources. And so this is just the time that we're going to have to dig in and solve our problems. We're running out of runway for avoidance factor here.

Jason Price:

Well, you are an important voice to help lead that. Let's make sure we keep the conversation going. And Paula, we want to give you the last word, but we have something called the lightning round, which gives us an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you the person rather than you the professional.

Paula Glover:

Okay.

Jason Price:

We've got about five or six questions to ask you. We ask you to keep your response to one word or phrase, and yeah, are you ready?

Paula Glover:

Sure.

Jason Price:

Okay. What's your favorite way to unwind after a long day?

Paula Glover:

Watching reality television.

Jason Price:

What is your go-to road trip snack?

Paula Glover:

Gummy bears.

Jason Price:

If you could travel to any fictional world, what would it be?

Paula Glover:

Wakanda.

Jason Price:

We're collecting lightning round questions from podcast guests to ask future guests. And so this one comes from Levi Larson at Idaho National Lab. Paula, is a hot dog a sandwich?

Paula Glover:

No. That's such a great question though.

Jason Price:

Now it's your turn. What lightning round question related to energy, or off the wall, do you want to challenge a future guest to answer?

Paula Glover:

Kobe or LeBron, who's the GOAT?

Jason Price:

All right. And lastly, what are you most motivated by?

Paula Glover:

Joy. It's something that's just going to bring me joy.

Jason Price:

Fantastic. Perfectly navigated through the lightning round so you have earned the final word. If our audience only takes one thing away from today's conversation, what would you hope it would be?

Paula Glover:

Time for us to lean in and solve the hard problems.

Jason Price:

Well said. Cogent, Terse, and to the point. This has been a great conversation, Paula. We really appreciate your time and sharing your insight here on the Energy Central, and I know that our community will have a lot to talk about. We hope you come back and share with us what's going on at the Alliance maybe a year from now, as well as please stay in touch and be sure to keep an eye out for questions and comments that will be coming through the platform. Thank you again for sharing your insight with us on today's episode of the podcast.

Paula Glover:

Thank you so much for having me. This was so awesome, and I look forward to joining you and having more discussion.

Jason Price:

Fantastic. And you can always reach Paula through the Energy Central Platform where she welcomes your questions and comments. And we also want to give a shout out of thanks to the podcast sponsors that made today's episode possible. Thanks to West Monroe. West Monroe is a leading partner for the nation's largest electric, gas and water utilities working together to drive grid modernization, clean energy, and workforce transformation. West Monroe's comprehensive services are designed to support utilities in advancing their digital transformation, building resilient operations, securing federal funding, and providing regulatory advisory support. With a multidisciplinary team of experts, West Monroe offers a holistic approach that addresses the challenges of the grid today and provides innovative solutions for a sustainable future. Once again, I'm your host, Jason Price. Plug in and stay fully charged in the discussion by hopping into the community at energycentral.com, and we'll see you next time at the Energy Central Power Perspectives podcast.

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