A subreddit focused on constructive discussion to better understand the events that took place surrounding the mass shooting at Columbine High School on April 20th, 1999.
Discussion
Okay so I am like absolutely new to Reddit. I’ve head of it before but never actually got to looking around or anything. So forgive me if this has already been posted. I’ve been searching through for like two days and haven’t seen anything though.
I’ve been very interested in the subjects of school/mass shootings for a good long while, and I’ve watched many, many Columbine documentaries. I’ve only just now started reading books on the subject. Of course I didn’t know any better and started with Dave Cullen, but now that I know it’s not factual as far as characterizations on the boys, I still want to finish it because I’ve read that as far as the actual events, he’s pretty spot on. I’ve compiled a list of all the recommended books to begin once I finish that provide more factual insight.
So in documentaries that I’ve watched, I feel like I’ve only heard John Savage one time on Zero Hour. I may be incorrect, but he is not regularly mentioned which I find odd. I feel like that is a pretty significant moment. Besides Brooks Brown, who was told to leave school by Harris, John Savage was the only person, as far as we know, that was spared.
So I guess my main question is, why do you think this moment is excluded so often? It doesn’t fit the narrative of “no one was safe”?
And if I’m wrong and he is mentioned in other documentaries I would love the sources to check it out.
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Now that I think about it, I remember Sean graves saying that as he was laying wounded in the cafeteria door way playing dead Dylan walked right over him and he flinched when he felt the weight on him and Dylan said “sorry dude” as he walked right over him, never see anyone really talk about that interaction either.
Did Sean graves get shot? Then you have lance being told “sure I’ll help you” and being shot
Yeah Sean got shot, he crawled to the doorway and played dead he had yelled to some other survivors that he couldn’t feel his legs and a few minutes later Dylan stepped directly on him while entering the cafeteria. I’ve heard waaay more people talk about Lance Kirklin than the Sean graves encounter , I’ve heard more people talk about Lance than John savage as well now that I think about it
Could you link a source? I haven’t heard of Dylan saying that to Sean graves and can’t find it anywhere
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=216&v=o4zwrbuncL8
Interview with Sean Graves. Go to time 3:20
Thank you
Man that was tough to watch. I couldn’t imagine being in there shoes when it all happened.
That's more of a taunt than anything else, honestly.
Well yeah.
Thought OPs post was about sparing John Savage, and your comment made it seem like he spared Sean Graves as well. Guess it's more about the non-threatening interactions with students, but the Dylan / Graves interaction still doesn't seem like it could fit anything other than the "no one is safe" narrative.
Yeah I was more or less just pointing out that there are a few other interactions that receive very little attention.
The 11k has some interesting perceptions about John and how he acted in the library prior to the interaction from other witnesses, if you are further interested. He seemed to be very calm - some said that he “was in his own world.” This calm demeanor may be what got him out of there alive.
Just discovered the 11k and just began reading it. Blown away by the amount of details I’ve already learned just in the first hundred pages. The witness statements are a fascinating insight into what was going on that day and the utter confusion.
Absolutely! I’ve yet to make my way through it outside of certain parts.
i think its more related to dramatic license, than anything. there's also a matter of privacy involved, in the sense that he personally might not want to draw attention to his involvement in the matter by talking about his experience and bringing it into the open.
These are just a few of the things that dispel the “Dylan wasn’t really into it” argument and then there’s the 911 audio
https://youtu.be/eGlFCCAKEHo
because it humanized eric and dylan a little bit, it made them seem like less rage induced killers, and people didn't want to believe even school shooters have morals or a conscious
John savage living up his name
A lot of places seem to ignore Dylan and Johns interaction in favor of drawing extra attention to Eric and Brooks’ interaction. I don’t know why.
Brooks is willing to do interviews
If you go through John Savage's witness testimonies he emphatically describes Brooks as an embellisher and a known liar, which fits most of what I've said here. My initial impression of Dylan and Savage's interaction was that it was somewhat lowkey, for whatever reason.
Eric has said stuff about Brooks too. Brooks has even said he was bad about that when he was younger. John cracks me up on Zero Hour. I know he is being very serious, but something about him just gets me.
Zero Hour is definitely where I got my interest in John Savages story. I’m not sure what it is either, but something about him and the way he tells his story as if it were just another day in the library.
He was just so earnest when he was telling the interviewer that he was thinking of getting up because Maybe they were just going to blow up some books... what did he care? but then nobody else was getting up so he didn’t
I agree that I'd like to see more from John Savage, although obviously he's entitled to his privacy. If that's why we haven't seen much, so be it.
However, I believe someone else was also spared in the cafeteria. There wasn't really an exchange so much as Dylan gestured to the guy to leave? I can't remember the details at the moment.
I think I know what you are talking about. The guy was injured on the ground and Dylan stepped on him or something and the guy said ow and Dylan apologized to him. Is this the incident you’re referring to?
Sean Graves? No, I thought I read about someone in the cafeteria (on this subreddit, actually). I'll have to scroll through the 11k again. I don't consider Sean "let go" explicitly because he still got shot
Fair point.
Cullen didn’t interview anyone from columbine, so things like what the principal said and students lives, how he said kids were lying on the news is all false. Total waste of your time.