Speaker His question. When did you first meet David? And what were your first impressions of him? Well, it was in the mid 60s.

Speaker 68. That’s a little more than 40 years ago. You know. Seems just like 40 years ago. I was running the New York office of the actually famous agency. We were full service talent agency. We had offices in Beverly Hills, New York, Rome, Paris, London.

Speaker And we were highly competitive with the way Ma’s agency, which which was the biggest, the largest, the time in all the fields.

Speaker I just I think actually famous eventually became actually famous.

Speaker AMC is now ICM 40 years later. We were doing very well in all the fields excepting one. We were doing very well in television. Super, super, super strong. And television and motion pictures, literary worlds, Broadway theater, Arthur Miller, Tennessee Williams. We were we were really wew in such great shape and all the areas we probably had the best variety department of late 50s. Unfortunately for us, this was late 60s. We were actually nowhere in the contemporary music world, nowhere at all.

Speaker And I got a call one day from Ted Ashly, who was the head of the company. He was out here in the Los Angeles office and he said, listen, I just I found a great young age at the Morris office have hired him. He is has access to a lot of artists in the contemporary music world. He’s got super smarts. He’s really terrific. And I know you’re going to like I know he’s going to fit in beautifully. I said. And he raved about. And I said, good. How much you paying him? And he said, I got up for 900 hours a week. I said no. Was he making over there? He mumbles like a fall out. 400 foreign acquirers. And you are the boss. I said to myself, this guy Gaffin, he must re really something special. If he could if he could take Ted actually to the woods like that, he was really great. Very. So that’s that’s how I met him. So you never heard that? Not not a word. But he showed up the next week and my first impressions were very clear. He you know, the phrase that’s around now, you could talk the talk. It wasn’t around then. But if it was, boy, could he talk the talk border line. Absolutely incessant. But I think it’s still that way. But he he was you had to be absolutely impressed with his personality, his charm, his smarts, his energy, his knowledge of the agent’s game. And I was very impressed with all of that. So. He then immediately started bringing people over clients that are present as the present coterie of manpower we had could never have attracted me in the first four or five, six months.

Speaker He was Joni Mitchell and then Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young and Gordon Lightfoot and Peter Paul and Mary and Janis Joplin and Laura Nyro.

Speaker I mean, so we as a result of what David was doing, then a few other agents were able to attract other other similar artists. Neil Diamond. And then we got the Frankie Valli the Four Seasons.

Speaker So we’re just.

Speaker Yeah, just just hang on. Just just pick it up. I’m so sorry about that. Another time back here that’s going to.

Speaker Yeah. Let’s pull the plug. That one also gets unplugged. That also.

Speaker How are we doing so far. May not know about that, but really sweet. Did great. So I was up to Four Seasons wasn’t I. Yeah. I didn’t know. So David sort of overnight bring home now. Well I. Well either. Either. Gross. Well I should imagine that to that. But where do we start. What do you think.

Speaker Yes. All right.

Speaker And he brought over. Paul, you know, he made this terrific relationship with Albert Grossman, who is the legendary manager of Super Weird Guy. But David was able to do it as a result of that, he brought over Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young Gordon Lightfoot.

Speaker I don’t think that they were with.

Speaker Well, I know that Gordon Lightfoot was I know that Peter, Paul and Mary was. And I know that Janis Joplin was in some others. Crosby, Stills, Nash Young ended up with Albert Grossman at one time or not. It was 40 years ago.

Speaker My memory, based on what I’ve read in a while ago, that you’re here for this interview. I think that the other was going out of business and they knew that he was able then to like magically appear and actually famous without all presence on.

Speaker Right. Just now. No, no, no, no, no. It happened.

Speaker Was he brought out. He did recover. That’s later. Yeah. At this point, he just brought Albert and kind of wooed out.

Speaker He would operate. And I had a good relationship. And that’s that. That’s what I said. And then and then it is true that as a result of those that that group of artists coming over. I did mentioned Joni Mitchell. I did mention Laura Nyro. That that we were able to attract other artists of in that world.

Speaker Okay, so that’s that was that’s the way it happened. Now, should I go. Go on. So the thing about David was it was very difficult to to keep him chained to or adhere to kind of the company structure and work within the structure. Tact was not one of his strong suits, but what he did was able to work with some of some of the fellow agents very well, and it did build some relationships with them. But I can remember after about two or three months when he was there. I said to Ted and my partners, you know, I think Gaffin is going to be worth the problems he’s going to cause us. And I was right. Why did you think he was going to cause he didn’t suffer fools lightly and we and we had a lot of people who were not up to the caliber that perhaps he would have liked them to be with his colleagues. He he was rambunctious. He was persistent. He didn’t have much patience with other colleagues. He he lost you know, he danced to his own minuet. And so that’s why. That’s why. But it was all worth it. What was your relationship like? Where we were. Was very good. We worked together very well. He he confided in me when he was having a difficult time. Now, remember, we’re not talking about a long period of time. We’re talking about from early 68 into 69. And the relationship was good. And I did not get involved in his day to day activity. I asked I was running a whole company. I mean, I was running the office, which had a lot of parts to it, as well as being an agent myself. So. It was very poor thing he did for us, for this company was filled out the mosaic very, very well and was very important to us because we middle’s middle sixty nine. We were selling the agency. We were trying. We had to sell the agency because management backed by Steve Ross made a play for water 7:00. Warner Brothers was a very, very difficult time for us because we had a dance at two weddings. One was we couldn’t buy the studio without selling the agency and we didn’t want to sell the agency without making sure we had the financing and the smarts to buy the studio. So. So it was a precarious time for us. My job was to make sure that the New York office stayed intact because there was only a couple of us, only two or three of us who were gonna come over from New York to the studio. Okay, maybe just two. So it got to be a very, very tense time. With respect to the entire structure of the company.

Speaker And just give us the background of that. Why you couldn’t they?

Speaker Oh, in those days, you couldn’t be in the talent representation business. You couldn’t be in the agency business and also be a producer of movies or television shows. I would suspect that still obtains now. So nothing’s changed. So so but we had we had to find a buyer for the agency and we had to make certain we had the financing for the studio. But we. Couldn’t quite close one without having the other one position. So it was rather rather tough, rather touching go for about the agent. The agency was bought by Marvin Josephson and he was backed by a consortium of banks. Ralph Cohn. I had Ralph Cohn. Ralph Man was his partner and the agency he bought it for. I think it was like 14 million dollars. Now, this agency is 40 years later, it’s ICM and it say, you know, it’s a giant company. And I just learned the other day and this is interesting. Jeff Berg, who is the chairman of. He told me I bumped into at a party. He told me he remembered one summer he interned at Ashley Sider, Ashley Weber’s agency, over 40 years ago.

Speaker And, you know, his father was registering his best friend. Yes.

Speaker Nick Berg was a friend of mine, too. Nick Berg was a wonderful, wonderful man and.

Speaker And my daughter was at the Cannes Film Festival with Jeff, oh, my Lord is working. She was with him at all the events on the red carpet, dinners with the financiers and all of it. Small were small world. Now, what do you do? I’m just kind of curious how that happened, because David was doing very well we today. He didn’t get along with everybody, but they certainly Lew Eisen Company certainly knew they had an asset. So how did they let David slip through their fingers?

Speaker I don’t know. I, I really don’t know how Ted found him. I know.

Speaker And I never really focused on it then. And I was not particularly able to focus on it now because I had no I had no idea who I would ask except David. But I don’t know how he how Ted found him. I wish I did for this interview, but I just don’t know.

Speaker You know, I was. Started it.

Speaker Well, yes, but David. David was not there then. Certainly not. But then. Well, because he would not. Lefkowitz was the estate’s uncle. Right. What was he like?

Speaker They thought they were their agents. Well, yes. Well, yes. What?

Speaker He wasn’t the only one. But you see. Yeah, it happens.

Speaker But Ted’s the company actually famous age. They actually Steiner office. Or Ted actually associate started with a William Morris client. Also Molly Goldberg and Gertrude Berg was her name.

Speaker She had a show called the The First. That was that was that was Ashlee’s TED Ashlee’s first client.

Speaker He he got her from. She was represented by the by the Morris office. I think you’re making a movie. The movie is finished. It’s out now. It’s a wonderful document. I haven’t seen anybody on this scene. It’s a wonderful, wonderful show.

Speaker Gertrude Berg tells with Steve Ross, did you close to him? Did you know?

Speaker I know very, very well, Steve. Steve came into the Ashlie offices like our life. We were introduced him by phone, him, Ken Rosen and Ken knew him reasonably well. And Steve at the time was called the company he ran was called the Kinney Company. Kenny rented cars and he and his wife at the time, her father and family was in the funeral home business.

Speaker And Steve came into that family and started to run the funeral homes and the parking lots and the limousine services and so forth.

Speaker And he I read I heard or knew that he was smart enough to start using the limousines at night, the limousines that were being used for funerals. He then figured, well, this is a big let’s go into the rental business and use the limousines for the evenings and on the weekends. Then they there was a parking lot company called Kennie, and he needed places to park the cars in the car rental. And so that’s that’s how he started the Kinney Company. It was Kenny when we when Steve King came into our lives, I think I think there’s still kidney parking lot in New York.

Speaker Why do you want to. What do you know about his dreams?

Speaker Why do you want to be an entertainer? Just take the picture of Steve Ross and his star struck.

Speaker Steve was a fascinating guy. He was super smart. I think he. I think he was able. It’s a phrase I’ve used before. He was able to dance at two weddings. He was able to spot that entertainment and media was something he wanted to be in. But he did not place himself as a creative guy. He was a solid businessman and knew how to. He knew how to waltz with the bankers and to operate, run a balance sheet and knew what kind of businesses they get into. Remember, it wasn’t just entertainment. He was in the building services business. He bought. He was in the magazine. There was a publishing company. There was a licensing company. He had a lot of company. It was a mini conglomerate. When we got into his lives. And still had the parking lots of the funeral homes.

Speaker When David came over, he already said that he brought a lot of clients with him and as a result of that, the agency was able to project.

Speaker Yes, and build a music, build a music business. It say that. OK.

Speaker When the when David joined the Ashlie office by tracking these are all of these artists that he did it. It really filled out the many, many mosaic of having a more a full service to talent agency.

Speaker And we revel tracked other artists and we grew the variety department, as it was called. That was very important to us because it made this because it made the sale of the agency even more attractive.

Speaker Now, what did you know about David’s relationships with with Laura and Joanie?

Speaker Well well, I think Jonah.

Speaker Yeah, well, you know, Laura and Johnny were two of the first people that he’s not that he brought over to the agency. And I know that he after he left the agency, he spent some time managing Laura. And I’m not much of a Johnny but Laura. I know. So he had told me about them when he first came over. And I knew I know a little bit about Joanie, but I didn’t know much about law. So did you get to know? No, I never, never met her. Never met her so much, only once in the office, but I never met her.

Speaker So, you know, and Crosby, Stills and Nash, never, David ever talk about his relationship.

Speaker No. Excuse me. He told me that he that he knew them well. He told me that that I knew about them from him. I did not personally get involved in in seeing him at work with him, but he delivered. So therefore, I know I know he was a real.

Speaker So what else did was I mean, he wasn’t there for very long, he brought in all these clients.

Speaker But I mean, what did he have kind of a vision from the beginning? Could you see it?

Speaker Yes. Yes, I could. I could see that the music world was going to be his world. I wasn’t quite sure where I was going to be, whether he’s gonna run it or create a record company, whether he was going to continue as as an agent or manager, whether he was going to make musical shows on Broadway.

Speaker I I knew from the conversations with him, from things I heard him talk about in some meetings, I, I sense that he was going to be in the music business for a long, long time. I did not get a sense that he would be multifaceted and become a director or become a writer or become any other part of or any other part of the game. I thought it was I. Does that answer your question?

Speaker Yeah.

Speaker I mean, so he was sharing these big ideas and this big vision about where the music industry could go in meetings.

Speaker I mean, you know, I knew this because. There was a sharp focus in conversations with him about the music world. With me, whether it was something that he shared with other people, I’m not sure. Again, I don’t want to over estimate the amount of time I spent with David because I had about 100 people working there and five other departments. So but I do know in the end, from time to time when we had these conversations, I was fairly convinced that he was going to have a career in some aspect of the contemporary music world.

Speaker Did you think of a specific conversation or was it just a just a general feeling?

Speaker I. I also knew that I also had the feeling that that he could would end up being able to do whatever he wanted to do. In the music world. So if he wanted to stay as a talent agent, if he wanted to stay as a manager or become a manager, or he did want to go into record business, you know, I had that feeling from these conversations we would have.

Speaker Yeah, what did you know about his own background? Did you ever talk to you about where he came from?

Speaker No, I know what I know about his background. I just read in books, including one book in which he was was quoted as saying, you know, when I was president of Warner Brothers Television that because we’re doing so bad, Jerry Light ought to be fired. Now, that’s that’s in one of his books. And I question that because it turned out that he was quoted as saying this by this writer.

Speaker About a year before he joined Warner Brothers. He may have thought I should have fired from afar, but he wasn’t working at the company at the time, the writer said he.

Speaker He said that you asked him now. Now, did he ever talk to you about his relationship with Steve?

Speaker Well, no, because you see. I left Warner Brothers. David joined Waters.

Speaker When I had already left the presence of Warner Brothers Television and moved to Rome to want to run, Warner Brothers features international, the international operation. So David and I never worked together at Warner Brothers.

Speaker So I don’t know how you know, how what happened with Steve and. And. Stephen. David, I do know that Ted was still there at Warner Brothers and that Ted and he had some had a falling out. I know. I know what that was about. But I don’t know.

Speaker I don’t know really much about the relationship that that happened after 1976, because I went my separate way to produce other movies and I ran a couple other companies and I just never paid much attention to it.

Speaker Well, tell us about Ted, actually. What was that? What happened there? What happened in that relationship?

Speaker Well.

Speaker Ted was, who was still chairman of the company, and I think David was co-chair or some some higher position and there was a problem with.

Speaker Cared.

Speaker Former wife. Not not not the one who we stayed with, who was married to when he died. He passed away. She she she took some role in the company while Ted was out of town and started calling some meetings and things. And that’s what I heard. By the way, I. I wasn’t there. I’ve heard this. And you’ve you’ve got to get this confirmed by least two other people as you’re like. I assume you have already.

Speaker We actually got a little bit of a delay until it was confirmed.

Speaker And so there was a. And Ted didn’t like what David was doing with respect to her name was Joyce and Ted.

Speaker Ted was was offended by David being strong in his negative attitude for some of the things that Ted’s wife was doing around the company with company, not person. And so there was a big fight about that big argument. But please, I suggest you find out from other people that want to confirm it.

Speaker Now.

Speaker Did how did David leave, actually? I mean, did did he break his contract?

Speaker Well, that’s an interesting story. It goes something like this. I told you that my job was to keep the agency together, so and every David knew that negotiations were going on.

Speaker It wasn’t a big secret. We tried to keep it. But David came to me and wanted to have a meeting in my apartment. And I said, sure. Coming over. He said, Look, Jerry. I have a contract, but I really don’t want to be an agent anymore, so I don’t want to stay at the agency. When you sell it, I just don’t want to do it. You kind of let me out of my contract. It. David, David, you don’t understand. So we’re trying to keep this age together. You’re one of the assets of the agency, and I can’t let you out of your country.

Speaker Well, I said he’s like, you know, talks a talk. Borderline incest. Well, you know, that would on for an hour or two. And then it went on the next day and and he was just driving me bananas. And I had a lot of other things to do. So I finally called Ted and Steve de los Angeles. I found him there and I said, David once out of his contract, and he swears he will never be an agent again, swears he wants to be a manager. He’s gonna have a couple of clients. He’ll never, ever, ever be my agent again. Ted said, Are you sure, I said, actually, sure, he swears. Steve says, Are you sure? Absolutely sure. He swears. He’s telling me you’ll never OK, let them out. I said, OK. But I’m sure I’ll never be an Asian again. I call him. I said, OK. David. You’re out of your contract. I told them you promised you wish. And I was sure that you will never be an agent again. I’ll never be an agent again. I promise you that. He left the agency week later, he went into the management business with Laura Nirav thing and Sandy Gallan. And three months later.

Speaker He signed with GHC as an agent for fifteen hundred dollars a week, and we were paying him nine hundred.

Speaker Sorry. Did you ever ask him about that?

Speaker I didn’t talk. I was cross with David, which. And so we didn’t talk about that for four. That’s why we didn’t talk for a long time.

Speaker But as I said earlier, that was 40 years ago.

Speaker It seems like 60, but he was only 40 years ago.

Speaker And perhaps it’s a story that you’ve heard before.

Speaker That story. Oh, yeah, the story. Really? Oh, what story? Tell me about the contract. Yeah. Oh yeah. What’s in books. OK. It’s in books. It’s been there. It’s been verified.

Speaker But we haven’t asked David about it yet. Well, well.

Speaker Well, in the you were quoted in a book about David called The Rise and Rise of David Geffen. You talked about Steve Ross as understanding that his biggest asset with people who worked for him in the elevator.

Speaker Well, that yeah, it’s great. Well, it’s it’s.

Speaker It is true in the service business. In the agency business. The biggest single asset you have. Goes down the elevator every night. And that’s why the care and feeding of personnel is terribly important. If you’re going to run a successful talent agency, advertising agency, travel agency, any business that had this agency as it is as part of the logo can be very careful about protecting your big asset, which is the people who’s working for you.

Speaker And Steve knew that very well. And that’s what we tried to do.

Speaker Now, after you left the agency and went out to Warner Brothers Television. Yes. And did you. What kind of relink connection at that point did you have with David?

Speaker Well, I was there any and I had none that I saw a few times bumped into Las Vegas. We bumped into each other a few times. But I had no work, no relationship with him.

Speaker So then David did dance around it this do that. Yeah. He set up asylum. Asylum, yes.

Speaker And I know Steve got very much involved in acquiring that end, but that was it. That was after I left left Warner Brothers. I was in the mid 70s.

Speaker Did you maintain a relationship with Steve? Yes. Yes. So did he ever talk to you that day? No, not that I recall. Because, you know, I think he kind of kind of hurt his feelings after. I mean, I think that did not end well. That relationship, despite the fact that he’d done a tremendous amount for him, did not end well on David’s part or Steve’s part. I don’t think Steve felt so great. Oh, that day. I don’t know. I mean, I had something, you know. No. I hope I’m not letting you down. No, not one bit. It’s, you know, I just don’t know. I mean, I don’t know who knows what.

Speaker If you were friendly with Steve, he might have talked to you, Dad.

Speaker I like my sense about Steve Ross is that he did not want to publicly say things bad about David or anybody.

Speaker All right. No, no, no, no, no. Steve was. He was a master tact. And no, he he so he would not say anything bad about anybody.

Speaker Not like me. I’d say something bad about I. We’re still not forgiven, David. Right. Well, I don’t know.

Speaker I don’t know the particulars there. I suppose one of the reasons is that I went my separate ways and I had my own life to lead. And it was after Ashley and after Warners and it’s hard to tell, hard to go back home again. You know, I love the guys. We worked together well.

Speaker My life took different paths. Their lives took the different paths. And I had other friends and other other relationships.

Speaker Do you have any specific stories during that time when you were working together with David that you couldn’t remember something funny or something inventive or just a very specific story that you can remember an anecdote of some kind?

Speaker My memory is very sharp about those days. What I remember mostly about David. Was. If you think of Ari Gold, Jeremy Piven. Right. Well, David was kind of like that, but with more charm. And there was and I and I always got the sense after conversation, which was Fatalis, that he never really took himself that that seriously. I got that sense, too, that he he he did kind of joke a bit about himself. So he wasn’t so. So. That was then. I know it’s. I don’t know whether in the last 10, 15, 20 years with his other relationships, when he went into business with Spielberg or Katzenberg. I don’t know what that was like, but he. He was fun to be around, and that’s sort of specific it. That’s but that’s a matter of manner and character.

Speaker And if you sense him out. OK. All right. So just a couple more questions. You mentioned Spielberg and Katzenberg. What was the feeling in Hollywood when that studio was originally works?

Speaker I was I. My recollection is was very, very positive. Very press. It was. It was a comedy. It was a it was an interesting triumvirate. It was perfect three legged stool. And I thought it made a lot of sense. And I obviously was very successful. I had had various degrees of success. But I know I know Jeff Katzenberg. I knew him years ago and I haven’t seen him for a while. But he’s done so well with his animated shows that he’s. It was just marvelous. And I don’t know why David left that company. I have no idea.

Speaker But it certainly is not going to harm Zachary to do harm to DreamWorks or to Jeff Katzenberg or Spielberg or or Geffen. So.

Speaker But we did a great interview with Stephen. He talked about, you know, David was such a linchpin, you wouldn’t have done it. You wouldn’t have done it if David had.

Speaker But I read about him. About that. Or you did. Yes. Yeah. Well, yes. But not only I heard it. I heard it from somebody else. Yeah. I think he’s. He’s been yes. I’ve said that before, but I don’t think I’ve ever said it on camera.

Speaker So. But how is I mean, Dave. So how happens day. How was David thought about in Hollywood? Are people afraid? Afraid.

Speaker Why? Because it can be very you can be a difficult guy. He doesn’t like you.

Speaker But but in what? But how could that hurt you? No, we don’t. Let’s stay with that for a second. How why would people be afraid of David Geffen? You’ve got it. I mean. What how could he harm somebody whose career is you? You think people are?

Speaker I mean, you know, I’ve gotten the sense that some people are. Yes. I mean, when mom and baby introduced him in 1992 at a. AIDS, a lot of you know, some of it for AIDS in L.A., where he was getting a big award. He introduced them in a number of ways. And one of the things you said was mobilized, David Geffen, is somebody working for you not against you know, he’s a very, you know, Kobad guy. Why not get what he wants or a friend of his is not getting what he wants them to have, whatever he can be.

Speaker Yeah, but that was 1992.

Speaker This is 2000, almost 10 years back then, where he’s oh oh oh oh DreamWorks. Oh, I was thought of as a Hollywood industry figure.

Speaker Oh, very strong.

Speaker But I, I got the impression, my recollection is that to the creative side of the game, people were more concerned about pleasing or impressing or being involved in trying to influence Katzenberg or Spellberg and not necessarily thinking that the guy to be concerned with was Geffen. That’s that was my perception. Now, it may be unique to me, but that was my perception. But I thought you when you said, are people afraid of him? I thought, You mean now?

Speaker No, I still think there probably people who, you know, are reluctant to say certain things because they might get mad at anything, you know.

Speaker But I don’t think David cares about that at all.

Speaker And I don’t know anybody who really cares about that either. Why? Why would someone care that David Geffen doesn’t like him? I mean, that’s not. I think the more important thing is if you have a good project, you know, you know, you you believe in your project, go out and try to find somebody who who is going to like it and want to finance it. Right. And if if at the moment, if you need David Geffen to help you get a picture financed or project finance. Right, then maybe you’ve got to take a look at the project right now because no one’s going to buy or finance or get involved in your project because. Because certain people like it are certain people don’t like it. That’s that’s that’s way I operate.

Speaker Am I’m being clear. Tell me. What did you hear about David when he was in a very brief stint as a movie executive? It didn’t last very long. It wasn’t very successful. How about the one about the United States? That was that was his total extent as a movie executive before he started DreamWorks, in which he always sort of had a hands off her thing. I think it was way then. Well, what was what did you hear about him?

Speaker Well, you must remember, I was in Rome. I was I was in Europe at that time. I, I heard.

Speaker I heard some stories back then about kind of shoot from the hip kind of reactions and David being a little bit of, you know, being upset about certain people kind of screwing him over, or he would he would give he would personalize a lot of stuff that was that was happening as opposed to just dealing with the issue on the basis of, OK. Was it a good thing for us to do or not a good thing for us to do? That’s what I heard.

Speaker But again, this is all. And a lot of it came from executives were over over there at the company who probably who are probably experiencing David not being very collegial or not being know, working within the context of a company organization and got their noses out of joint.

Speaker More than David being wrong about the decisions that were that he was that he was implementing and so forth. So I think I think there’s a lot of sour grapes, more sour grapes probably than more than anything else from guys who I think, David.

Speaker My sense is that he you know, he’d been involved in the music business where people are the same ages.

Speaker All the people eventually signed and managed and made record company. He’s a contemporary with their contemporaries. And they they were happy to hear what he had to say. And he hadn’t quite learned in the movie business that you weren’t supposed to necessarily speak your mind. It’s probably not until these movies to you. Right. Right. Right. I mean, he did you know the famous story I heard about that. Yes.

Speaker I heard about very telling that story. What about that? Yeah.

Speaker Listen, I told I told Alan Pakula I love Sophie’s Choice, but it was 20 minutes too long. That’s when I was running ITC.

Speaker I didn’t talk to me for another two to three years. And what a wonderful guy he was.

Speaker I know his wife quite well. We see each other for dinner probably every two weeks. Oh, yeah. She’s just finished a portrait. But now the story of Clint is that he saw I forgot the movie.

Speaker Unforgiven.

Speaker No, no, not long one with a monkey in it. Was there a monkey in it?

Speaker No, not that one. Maybe the outlaw Josey Wells. Yeah. Yeah. Ah. And he told him that he said, you know, Clint is the best work you’ve ever done as a director. It’s fabulous. But, you know, I really think that moves to explain this to us. And Clint Pitt apparently said, well, that’s very interesting. Take it under advisement.

Speaker And if you want to reach me to discuss this further, you can reach me at Paramount Chabon’s of why pyramid’s because that’s where I would be making my next picture.

Speaker And that was it. Verilli day. Just run it off in the back of a sidewalk. That’s story he told was a lie. Hi, Erica. I never heard it.

Speaker I mean, I think I said it’s probably true. From the studio. Well, who else was the guys who were around there that day?

Speaker Yes. David thought we should introduce daily Terry Semel. We thought we should. Oh, sure. Yeah. Bob.

Speaker Now, what do you want to say about David, I haven’t asked you. Does I finish with my question?

Speaker Well.

Speaker It’s it’s certainly he certainly was a unique personality. I in retrospect, I don’t think I have worked with.

Speaker Many people who had at the time had.

Speaker How we’re able to project that they were going to they were keepers, that he was he or she was going to be in the game. For a long time and be extremely successful. What I never, ever felt or sense at the time. That David would turn out to be such a so philanthropic, so giving of his assets and this is his life to causes that were outside of the entertainment industry. I mean, I never in a million years would not have I didn’t think that would be the case. So that probably confirms my original impression of how unique he was. I never realized, though, at the time that this unique was uniqueness was going to be such. So Harz hotto so go beyond just being someone I thought could be X would be full time in any aspect of the music world. So perhaps that’s the one lasting impression that I can say to you with a great degree of certainty. So I hope I’ve answered. I hope I’ve answered your last question.

Speaker Well, you know, you were telling me when we first came in and this next picture, one in a million, about how a woman with a lottery ticket for a hundred million dollars or how.

Speaker It changes her life and she begins to realize who’s real and who’s not real, and that will impact the paranoia that gets better.

Speaker Why do you think in any way? I mean, certainly nobody. I don’t think David could have imagined we were six and a half billion dollars. But how do you think being that Rich has affected him or do you have any idea? I.

Speaker I had lunch with him at his home a couple of months ago when he asked me to participate in this. I hadn’t seen or talked to David perhaps twenty five years.

Speaker And after about. Ten minutes it was if I hadn’t talked to him for two weeks. So.

Speaker I don’t I don’t know how he regards the the this great wealth that he’s accumulated and what he’s done with it. I, I do know that we were able to talk about friends somewhere who no longer with us.

Speaker Some are and some rather it is in his usual, I say usual meaning old disarming fashion. So I don’t I can’t I can’t guess what he thinks about that. I can’t imagine it.

Speaker So twenty five years later, you didn’t say, David, how come you told me you were going to be an agent again? Six months later, you signed with it. Yeah, you did. You didn’t raise it.

Speaker No, he but he brought it up a little, like I said. He said, you know, there was a while you were really mad at me. I said. Yes, I was.

Speaker Oh, yeah. But, uh.

Speaker There wasn’t any reason to talk about that. I was just so, so fascinated with the fact that it seemed like I hadn’t talked him for two weeks and it was charming. Charming. That’s right. Yes. So that’s a.

Speaker I just have questions.

Speaker Come on now.

Speaker So I think I have a feeling I’ve let you down a little.

Speaker You have not let us down one yet. You’ve told us what you’ve told us.

Speaker Listen, you covered a period in David’s life that nobody else could cover, inspired working towards.

Speaker And I suspect you probably don’t know the question if you have any sense from your early dealings with him.

Speaker What was driving him?

Speaker Well, I said I suppose I remember the what makes Sammy run Sammy Glick. He was running. He was desperate to succeed. Knows. So. So and that’s what I said earlier about the energy and the persistence and the smarts and the combination of using them. And, you know, he was it was a great schmoozer with talent and and clients and buyers. And no, I didn’t get a sense back then that David had any other life, but being in the talent game as an agent. And it was all. I got a sense of it being all consuming. So therefore, maybe it still is. Maybe, maybe after all these years, he’s still chasing something. I don’t know. But or maybe he maybe no longer is. I mean, Bob Daly told me that he was going off to David’s yacht for a road trip and. That the only one problem with that yacht. It’s the second biggest yacht in the world and the biggest one.

Speaker Some Saudi prince is four feet bigger. Now, whether that drives David crazy or not, I don’t know. But what an interesting piece of minutia that is.

Speaker Thank you. That’s a guy. I’m glad you said that. Very funny. I was teasing him one day because I heard he had this. He was sick, the second largest privately owned boat in the world. Was was does it say. Bill Gates said the first one. Right. Is it Susan? Mine is 460 feet. And he’s a sporting twelve.

Speaker Well, it’s sorry.

Speaker That day I had lunch with him. And when we had shared the first day, I realized that I actually knew that I was pretty sure that that that the largest boat had to be on by Sheek or something. Said you. Right. But I was very competitive on this. And apparently.

Speaker It’s not Bill Gates, it’s Paul Allen. It sounds a second, not Bill Gates, Paul Allen, apparently.

Speaker Well, this is David partnered with some Larry Ellison. Yes, Larry Ellison upon the same. Yes. Have you seen the book?

Speaker You haven’t seen both and say. I haven’t seen it both in the same room together. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker Anyways, Paul Allen and apparently this came to me from somebody who works for Paul Allen. It drove him so crazy.

Speaker He considered putting like an aircraft carrier helicopter what comes out in the back of the boat that would make it look good today. And these boys and their toy say that, well, we might be going on the yacht.

Speaker Oh, they’ll be great. Have a wonderful for you and David to film it. Nice as it is. Houseguest. Go, go, go.

Speaker I just love one more thing. Sure. I know you mentioned Marty and worked at the agency. Yes. Only because we’re interviewing him. If you could just set up who he was. And that was an agent.

Speaker Oh, yes. Mark. Mark, Marty was a young agent. Marty was a young agent. You had to start.

Speaker Do you need his full name?

Speaker No, because we’re gonna get him in jail just fine.

Speaker Marty was a very bright young agent at the counter. He was in the movie department. He signed a couple of actors. He had Ali MacGraw and somebody else was named who will tell you about here a couple of actors that he found and work with. And he was very he was also very energetic. He knew the movie came very, very well. The movie business and a happy coincidence for him is secretary. Who he met there? Is he married and they’re still married? That’s 40 years later. So her name is Sandy. Sandy Davidson. And they’re wonderful people. And I you’re going to interview them. You’re happy. You know, I’m sure he’ll have some stories about about David that I probably wouldn’t know because they were they were collegial. They were colleagues. They got along reasonably well. Remember I said earlier that he did get along with a few people very well. And Marty Davidson was was one of them, I recall.