Hey Reddit, I was raised in a religious cult located in Waco, TX for the first 16 years of my life. Our family made it out although it was very difficult to leave. They were seperationists who exerted a high level of control over their members. Anyway, I've got some time and I'm more than open to any questions you have, as long as they don't identify me!
More info: http://www.homesteadheritage.com/ https://www.texasobserver.org/heritage-of-abuse/ https://www.texasobserver.org/wfaa-weighs-in-on-homestead-heritages-with-a-two-part-investigation/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elFvLVR0J6w
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Well, because i had never really been allowed to watch TV I watched a completely unhealthy amount of television for a while lol. I remember being so surprised just watching the intro to CNN News and how the camera feels like it is flying through the letters and being spellbound by all of the sound effects and everything. And I will never forget the first movie I saw, Spiderman. It was amazing. I also used to get super emotional in movies, I would cry when the actors did, laugh with them...man, that was awesome.
But it took me a lot longer to get past the belief I was going to hell. They really are good at using fear to make you believe that there is no safety in the world except for them. That was basically the gist of every 8 hour long Sunday "meeting". They were filled with the "elders" screaming and prophesying people dying, diseases spreadiing, etc., people speaking in tongues, falling on the ground in what I guess I would now call seizures-it sounds crazy now but back then it was perfectly normal. I remember sitting on my bed and realizing I was going to have to change what I thought was reality and in my head it felt impossible. And that took a very long time.
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Man, I love Waco tbh. I moved to California to go to college because I wanted to get away from all the drama after we left Homestead but the job market was absolutely awful in LA. So now that I've moved back I see so much potential for this town but man! The Baylor controversy, the mass shooting at Twin Peaks, the branch dividians...the cool thing is I don't think we have much to worry about a bunch of people suddenly deciding that Waco is the new trendy place and moving out here. Ohhh wait...Magnolia haha. I really do enjoy the town though and Homestead has bought a few thousand acres in Idaho, I have a feeling they are planning on doing what they've done so many times before by moving and changing their name.
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Yea, that probably played a huge part in it. I have really loved life now that I'm not constantly freaking out 😆
What was the schedule like for an 8 hour meeting? I'm sure it had to have some structure.
Did people actually enjoy them ( like before you became disenfranchised).
They really weren't very structured. I remember going to church after leaving and I couldn't fathom how they could have a handout with the hymns we were going to sing and especially that they actually had an end time. There were a few times that Blair (the head elder) stormed out of the meeting and everyone started screaming and wailing for him to come back and it would end up being closer to 10 hours.
I don't know if any other people enjoyed going to them. It was more or less something you had to do so you did it. I don't really know if any of those people really know what it means to get engrossed in something and be excited about it and spend hours doing it because you really love it. Like me doing this AMA and watching football 😂
Wow, my husband is a chef and he buys grits from there. We wondered if something was up, it seemed a little off.
How is it a cult?
Hey, that's interesting because so few people in Waco seem to see how creepy they are. But honestly the definition of "cult" seems so open, I'd prefer to just say that they cut off members from outside contact. They strictly enforce dress codes (I remember an elder yelling at me for wearing a T-shirt). They don't practice any sort of sex Ed and enforce strict abstinence and it leads to a lot of the kids (and adults) doing some really weird sexual stuff. And they preach that they are representatives of God. Does that make them a cult? Idk all I know is it really is an awful place and I am so glad to be out of there. But yes, they do have great food!
Well, I hope you are happier now. Thanks for answering.
So much happier now, thanks for asking!
They are a definite cult. If you don't believe me here is the definition of cult
Cult - A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
Those are some serious allegations that might not be what they seem. "enforce strict abstinence and it leads to a lot of the kids (and adults) doing some really weird sexual stuff." They enforce abstinence because that is Biblically taught but how does that lead to "really weird sexual stuff"? and what specific sexual stuff are you referring to?
Some examples here https://www.texasobserver.org/heritage-of-abuse/
Not lying, I read grits as girls at first glance
They probably sell girls too, so don't be so hard on yourself.
Thank you for doing this! My mother and I would go out there sometimes when driving through from Fort Worth between 2007-2010; it never occurred to us that it was a cult. Unusual to a huge degree, yes. But I didn't realize how cut-off the people, especially the children, were from the outside world & how much control the leaders had over them. So glad you were able to escape!
Trying to think of a question to ask, I guess... is there anything you miss from that time in your life? Like a favorite place to go, favorite activity, etc?
Did you have much privacy growing up, or were you constantly around other people? Or not allowed to have any time alone?
Also, what did people in the community think in general about the visitors that came through? Were they judgmental of them, envious, suspicious? (Everyone always seemed friendly and relatively normal when I visited, so just wondering.)
Thanks again for doing this AMA!
EDIT: What about the people who interacted more with the public? Was there any special criteria involved with working at the cafe or the various buildings during public hours? Were only certain people allowed to do so?
Did you have any personal interaction with the founder at all? What was your impression of him?
OK, apparently I had a lot of questions! I'm done now!
Good questions! Let's see...
Man, I sat here for five solid minutes trying to think of anything I missed from those years and I honestly can't think of anything 😂. I mean, we had a garden back then that I liked but I still do! It's funny because they believed the world was going to end in y2k and people spent a fortune on huge water resivoires and all sorts of stuff like that but my dad didn't buy into it. But I do like the back to basics ideology. I never liked going to the members only places or participating in the fairs to show off how great we were, every bit of it felt fake.
I had plenty of privacy growing up. I mean, when you live on 60 acres you can always find a place to sneak away to. I loved that and I became quite a loner. I still am to an extent but I love interacting with people now.
I think the key word on what members though of visitors would be "judgemental". That lady smiling from ear to ear making pottery? She's really thinking "this worldly woman is wearing pants instead of a dress, she is going to hell."
Basically you were allowed to work in the public faces of the organization unless you showed signs of rebellion. Then you were put on "Friday night status" for a few months or years until they felt like you were buying into everything again.
I was pretty young at the time and the leader keeps separate from the followers except to preach. He is a bizaare guy, has secret escape routes set up for himself if anything goes south, multiple houses all over the US-he has a ton of money. He and the rest of the elders recently tried to get even more money by taking all the members' private businesses and making them part of the church so they would get a tax break but that's when the county stepped in and said no. So I guess the county/city won't let them get away with everything!
Hey, I meant to ask you this earlier...is your username a reference to Monty Python??
Plz say yes, plz say yes...
YES it is! Thanks for noticing!
From this scene in Holy Grail:
ZOOT: What is your name, handsome knight?
GALAHAD: Er ... Sir Galahad... the Chaste.
ZOOT: Mine is Zoot. Just Zoot.
Awesome! You are now officially one of my fave redditors.
Aww thanks! It makes my day when someone gets one of my references, especially Monty Python ones!
What originally drew your parents in to joining? Leaving you said it was difficult to leave, did many people come and go or was it more of a closed society?
I'm not really sure what drew my parents into joining but they come across as a "counterculture" community and my parents were (and still are) very into growing food and animals and living off the land as much as possible. But here is the method they use for new members. If you express interest in joining the elders have to talk to you which I guess is part of the vetting process. If you are invited from there, you can come to particular Friday night meetings. I remember how much I liked these meetings because whenever "visitors" are there, they are super friendly and everyone just seems so damn happy lol. Nothing like how they are later on. If you still express interest and the elders feel like you are into the "vision" (basically you are more likely to agree with them) you can start visiting regularly on Friday nights. After a while they start making the Friday night meetings more similar to how they really are. This is done over a long period of time. After a while you are baptized into the church. The baptisms are super intense. Basically you are agreeing to serve them as representatives of God and that you are going to hell if you break away from them. It is a very long process in which they get extremely serious and make you say a whole bunch of vows and then they dunk you in a huge tank. After this you are off "Friday Night Status" and can come to the Sunday meetings and various other prayer meetings, etc. This whole process takes years.
A few people have left over the years. Homestead has been around since the 80s and have moved and changed names many times. When my dad said he was leaving they started coming over to our house for hours a day for over a week, calling threats of hell and generally scaring the shit out of me. But my dad stayed strong and got out. At first my mom wasn't going to leave and they were going to have to get a divorce and stuff but luckily she got out as well after a bit. So basically not many people leave but a few have over the years. Most people in there buy into the fact that Homestead is the only route to heaven and while they are miserable they would never leave.
Confessions for Baptism and Communion, the long thing to be signed and initialed 100+ times, says that they baptize into Yahshua, which actually is non-Hebrew, not Bible, gibberish. (Jesus is the name, Hebrew would be Yeshua or Yehoshua).
Do you remember how they were baptizing? I've heard reports of the name of Yahshua, and also confusing mixes of Yahshua and Jesus. The first 20 years or so, they properly used the name of Jesus, or the Lord Jesus Christ.
Any thoughts appreciated! Thanks.
Steven (Avery) Spencer
Dutchess County, NY, USA
Wow this is so sad to read.I think there’s a lot of incest bc they all look alike over there in the restaurant.I have family that are Pentecostal and I hated going to those churches
I lived in chalk bluff when I was younger. They used to get pissed at me when I would climb the fence to fish this pond. I really didn't care bc it was good fishing. As I got older I heard stories and read articles about what happens there. I'm glad you made it out hope The best for you and your family. Edit: for grammar
Thanks! So honestly I was never for my parents speaking out and all that but if they hadn't, I doubt this info would be out there.
Recently I had some major health issues and ended up at the hospital where I died and had to be revived. But ever since all that I've changed in the sense that Im not angry at all at them but I do think it is important that people do what they can to spread the truth and make the world a better place. And if part of that is letting people know what I personally saw and experienced then I'm more than happy to do that.
P.S. hope ya found a good fishing spot!
I couldn't agree more. You gotta live and be happy buddy. And yes I have found better spots lol. But when I was younger I was pissed bc it was the best one.
Hi! So happy you did this, so thanks for taking the time to share and answer questions! Sorry if others have asked the same questions (don't worry about answering any that have been already answered) I started typing them up when you said you were planning to do this AMA :)
Without being too specific in your answers for my questions:
How did your family get involved in this cult?
How did you end up leaving/was it hard? I read once about a guy who's family was involved in Scientology and his mom finally packed up him and his brother and left their brainwashed dad and took off because they knew they wouldn't be able to leave any other way. Was your family's safety threatened when you left or was that not a concern?
What was the basis behind the cult and did they use any pre-existing religious doctrines like the Bible and one of their own? Or was it strictly on their own?
Did you ever have moments where you knew that it was a cult? If you ever discussed it with other members or your family, how did they handle your questions?
What made your family leave the cult? (I realize this could be too specific)
Did others leave the cult at the same time?
Are there any things you were taught in the cult that are hard for you to remember are false? Or any aspects or values that you think are correct?
Thanks! I love answering good questions that make me think about why I am who I am.
A) answered
B) answered. But I'll add that before we left most people who left fell on their faces and posed no risk to them. In fact, one of their members from the Arizona branch ended up torching her house and burning herself and her kids in it. So it was pretty hard to leave seeing how crazy a lot of people got after leaving. But my parents have set up a pretty awesome support network for people who leave and a few families left after us and are great friends now. However, all of my childhood friends are gone, all my current long term friends are from when I was 16 onward. Our safety was never threatened but when when we left I moved out of state to go to college and get away from them. But my dad stayed in town and started speaking out on web forums and to news reporters about what was happening. A Dallas news channel and some other statewide and local publications did a few pieces. Anyway after that we did have several weird instances of people following us and coming up to our house in the middle of the night but I can't really prove it was them and honestly I don't care. So no, no physical threats.
C) they use the bible and their own "literature". One of the things I learned after being in there is how you really can interpret the bible to say almost anything you want it to say with enough of a deceitful bias. Their literature was mostly books about how we should behave and how we should explain ourselves to outsiders. They have a book they give members called "Questions Visitors Most Often Ask" in which they tell you how to answer questions. It's crazy because the answers are either how to word it right so you "technically" aren't lying or they are straight up lies. Ugh. They call themselves a "nondenominational religious organization" although they are somewhat similar to united Pentecostals in how they dress, etc.
D) I never once would have dreamed of calling it a cult, that was unheard of for members. In fact it took me a while of being out of there before I realized how cult like they are.
E) The were having a meeting and screaming at some kids and the kids were crying and I guess that was the last straw for my dad. He got up and walked ou . I was planning on leaving the instant I turned 18.
F) A few.
G) Most people who leave end up rejecting everything they ever thought they knew about life and it gets people into all sorts of trouble. I had some substance abuse issues for a while because it was the first time I realized I could actually control the way I felt and I'd been depressed just about my entire life lol. But I've gotten to the point where I've realized that life isn't about running away from something, it's about running towards something better. And yea, I love their ideas of being a more self-sustaining community and getting close to nature and all that so they definitely have some great values.
Wow, very interesting. Cults are both scary and fascinating. Thanks so much for answering!
You have no idea how much I agree with you. It is so fascinating to try to understand how things like this work but at some point you realize we are all just humans and everyone is capable of deceiving themselves into believing that what they are doing is right. That's when it gets scary. But yea, psych was one of my favorite classes in college.
100% agree!! And haha same psych was awesome, very cool to learn about :)
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You didn't date. You went to group functions and then as a guy I would have had to go to one of the lower elders and tell them God had told me I should marry a certain girl and then that process would have begun. Women are really treated poorly there, but they seem to have accepted it. That's why I wish they knew that there are other options that are so much better.
This part is really fascinating to me. So after you talked to the elder about God telling you to marry a girl, what happened after that? Was it pretty much a done deal or did you have to convince her parents? Did the girl have any say in the matter? How young were you able to start this process?
Well I was never old enough (luckily) so I don't know firsthand. But some of the girls who were married there and left after us told me they really didn't have any say in the matter. One of them said she was forced by her dad to marry someone she absolutely hated. And after that, there is no way you are getting a divorce unless you leave.
I do know that the guy had to get an okay from the girl's dad before "asking" her to marry him and it started around 18. Those kids are so starved for sex they're gonna charge in asap lol
I've been there a few times; the food is really good but now I feel conflicted about supporting the group. Do you recommend boycott or engagement?
How do they reconcile being so economically dependent on trade/tourist activity with the outside world?
When I went there we were always told that we did all of the outreach as a chance to be a "witness" to the outside world so I would guess that is how they justify that. However, I remember accidentally walking in to the area where they were counting the money they made from during their thanksgiving fair and there were huge stacks of cash everywhere in an almost insane amount, like something you see in a drug dealing movie. I remember this incident so well because they yelled at me and told my dad to never allow me in that area again but at the time I just had no idea what I had done to get in so much trouble.
I am not doing this AMA to recommend boycotting them or anything like that. I'm just trying to get some truth out there so people can make their own decisions. I would probably occasionally eat at the cafe myself if I was allowed on their property lol. But in all honesty, personally I would rather find somewhere else to get good food so I wouldn't be supporting such a crooked organization. Thanks for the question!
Thanks for the AMA! I live nearby and worked with a guy that brought and sold the best breakfast burritos at work.
I remember back in the late 1980's, early 1990's when BBS's were popular that there was a BBS named Brazos de Dios (River of Love?). I understood at the time that this was hosted at Homestead Heritage. It had a lot of religious stuff that I really wasn't interested in but I remember the name of the guy that ran the site as Wayne Martin. Then a few years later when the Branch Davidian thing occurred Wayne Martin was a leader in that group.
Any comments on this guy Wayne Martin?
Hey Walter! So I'm not sure what BBS stands for but yes, Homestead was known as Brazos De Dios before they changed it to Homestead, and it was Koinonia before that. I never knew of any overlap between them and the Branch Dividians either. And I don't believe I ever heard of anyone named Wayne Martin there. But I was still under 18 at the time and there were plenty of secrets kept even from members so I'm not saying that I know everything!
Did you go a public school or was your home there at the heritage as well and kind a self contained thing?
Nobody goes to public school. You are homeschooled with a variety of fundamentalist Christian and their own self-published books. I mean, honestly it is pretty impressive how well they have created their own reality to live in for kids from birth. I think most of the people just want an alternative for other cultural options but the leadership from the main guy (Blair Adams) all the way down the chain is super power hungry and it has ruined any possible positive outcomes
The second link mentions there are allegations of child abuse. Did you encounter anything like that or have someone tell you about that sort of thing? Basically, did you see or hear anything that corroborates that?
So I didn't personally experience that but it did happen and it is surprising to me how many other people I have talked to that have left have told me it happened to them. I am a male and all the people who said it happened to them are female, so maybe that has something to do with it. Sex is treated as an extremely taboo subject and it leads to a lot of weird behavior. One of the elders sons had a problem with having sex with animals and another was having sex with his sister. Also a lot of people who leave get real addictions to hardcore porn.
As for one of the things they are mentioning in the article, recently a member turned himself in for having sex with his 13 year old daughter. He admitted that he confessed this to the elders and they just told him to go home (where his daughter was!) and pray about it. Luckily he still turned himself in but it makes you wonder how many times this doesn't get reported. Also, it is illegal in the state of Texas not to turn someone in instantly if they admit to abusing someone and I don't understand why nobody arrested the people at homestead. My guess is that they somehow talked their way out of it, they can sound pretty convincing. One of the other stories is told by a woman who was molested her entire life there. So there are a lot of allegations of abuse but I never personally experienced anything like that.
what freaked you out most about the world when you first got out?
Trying to fit i . Everyone at that age is pretty obsessed with it but it is pretty difficult when you don't know how the rest of the world behaves, pop culture references, etc. Then whenever I started fitting in I realized that wasn't really making me happy but at that point I had the freedom to make my own decisions and follow my own path.
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Actually, I had a rough time relating to people for a little while after leaving but that has changed a lot. Now when I say I'm somewhat of a loner I just mean I have some tendencies towards introversion but I absolutely love randomly bumping into people who think about things a little bit deeper like I do, and especially people who are willing to stand up to the wrong things that happen in our society-basically people who are similar to you, from what it sounds like!
I am not suggesting any sort of boycott or anything else of that nature. I just want people to know the truth about what Homestead is. And it sounds like you are one of the few people who have been willing to look into what they really stand for and have decided to avoid supporting that. I am so happy there are people like you in Waco, NEVER STOP BEING A CRITICAL THINKER!
haha, I really am so happy there are people like you in the world, cheers.
I live in Waco. Went to that place when I was younger a few times. Like field trips. I had no idea that was an actual way of life. I just thought those people were closer to renaissance fair actors than actual fundamental crazies. Looking back on it and reading what you write, it makes wayyy more sense. Waco is a strange place sometimes.
lol, I can totally see people thinking that!
I really enjoyed this; thanks for doing it.
No prob, glad you enjoyed!
I live in Big Timber Montana where a large group of heritage has moved in here. They've been doing lots of really terrible things, and it's getting worse. What can we do? They are trying to buy out the town, they've terrorized ppl who've left the group, and now they're trying to build a large housing area in town. They say it's for "nurses, doctors and teachers" but they don't use any teachers. They lie and steak and have decieved many. We need help. We just found out they are moving in 250 MORE families. Yikes.
Hey, just was looking up this group because i just heard from someone over there talking about it. Any news? I know your response is a year old on a 7 year old thread, but they sound like a real piece of work.
I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:
[r/waco] I'm doing an AMA right now about Homestead Heritage if you guys are interested.
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With the exception of Chip and Joanne, Waco seems to be the epicenter of cult life, why?
We have tons of baptists and fundamentalist Christians here. Just a numbers game. We are bound to have some really out there people with crazy/dated beliefs. I fucking hate that Chip and Joanne show. People always ask me if I love that show since I live here. Nope. Hate it. The magnolia place is fairly close to where I work. People are really fascinated by it and can't comprehend I don't like those people.
Lol chip and jo are vvvvvv much the new cult leaders here
I missed your AMA in real time but was just read through all the comments and answers. Very interesting. Can you stand one more question ? What do HH community members think of us, their secular neighbors? Have of often wondered if they're curious about our lifestyle or hold us in disdain. Do the elder's talk much the outside world?
I read the remaining questions and realize you previously answered this. Thank you for the AMA.
Tyler Texas here, Whats up with waco and their cults? Branch dividians, homesteaders?
Are they heavy into "speaking in tongues"?
I just left homestead a year ago, my parents joined when I was 5. It doesn’t seem that bad of a place when you grow up in it. But when your out in the real world of reality you want that place to burn to the ground. Yes there are good people in there that don’t know any better, but the majority of it can burn
My cousins are in this cult and it’s been so interesting and sad to read about what their lives are like. Thank you for sharing, it’s been a mystery my whole life
I wish you'd consider coming to speak to the people in this town so they'd know how really bad these ppl are .
P2
Woah, my mom and her siblings were raised in this cult before it was known as Homestead Heritage. I emailed one of the elders and seeing the way he interacted so welcoming was crazy since I knew of all the bad things that happened to my mothers family. Thanks for sharing your experience, it's really cool to see someone have the same story as my mom!
Hey there! I just discovered Homestead yesterday. I'm speaking to them about purchasing a puppy to be my next Service dog. I would love to speak with you if able to and learn more about your experience. If comfortable enough my email is ekprotect@proton.me
Thank you!
Thanks for bringing this awareness for all of us here!
Are you still a Christian now that you left HH? What are your thoughts about the Bible and God?
Hi! I grew up visiting here after thanksgiving to shop and make candles. I’m on a journey of learning about dismantling cults in my adulthood and just want to know, do you think there’s anything that could have been said to you while you were in the cult that would have gotten through to you? Would seeing the pattern of abuse in other cults have helped you realize what you were in, or would you just see the person as a secular demon? This is in no way meant to offend, and I think you’re a total badass for getting out. Just trying to educate myself and this one hits close to home! Thanks for any info.
Is this the one that has the deli
I am currently going through a custody battle with a pathological narcissist who proudly defined herself of social media as " a toxic toxic whore-able person. This toxic mentally ill person stalked me for 5 years before she got an opportunity to drug me and take advantage of me resulting in the birth of my son. She has since moved to heritage idaho who has claimed her as one of their own and I am fighting them all for custody. I would like to speak to anyone who has experience with this so called cult. Anything would be helpful
What do you know about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4OZLi0bhOU
I have taken woodworking classes there on two separate occasions. I loved the classes and thought it was a really cool place, but I also figured there was something sinister behind the scenes. I’m glad you made it out and have been able to create a new life for yourself.
If I'm here right now what will happen when I try to leave the fair?
My children and I just visited this site today and immediately when we stopped at the market we KNEW something was off about this little community. The women all dressed the same, had their hair the same, Men were watchful like we were their committing a crime while they carried on conversations about who knows what (I truly don't want to know), children were not seen and the teen girls we encountered in the craft barn who were learning weaving looked at us giggling, pointing, and chattering like we were a sight they had never seen before.
It was very unsettling while we were there, almost like we were breaking rules being there, and we were glad to leave. It was on our list to check out, we did, and we will never return!
If they accept people of all faiths then why does everyone seem to act, dress, and think the same..HELLO CULT! If I were to move on the property I woiuld be sent away. My kids are loud and I will not wear my hair in a bun, long sleeve button up blouses and skirts. I am modestly dressed always, but I like my pants and jeans. And my shirts don't go to my neck, I feel like that chokes me.