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Rick Perlstein is a progressive journalist who writes well-regarded books on the history of American conservatism since 1960:
Perlstein, Rick (2001). Before the Storm: Barry Goldwater and the Unmaking of the American Consensus.
Perlstein, Rick; et al. (2005). The Stock Ticker and the Superjumbo: How the Democrats Can Once Again Become America’s Dominant Political Party
Perlstein, Rick (2008). Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America
Perlstein, Rick (2014). The Invisible Bridge: The Fall of Nixon and the Rise of Reagan. New York: Simon & Schuster. ISBN 978-1-4767-8241-6.
Perlstein, Rick (2020). Reaganland: America’s Right Turn, 1976–1980
So, he’s a well-informed person.
Hence, I got into a Twitter battle with him. As Walter Sobchak would say, he seemed like a Worthy Foe. It started out with him complaining about speed cameras in Chicago dinging fast but competent drivers like himself. Personally, I’m also averse to Chicago secretly reducing the margin above the posted speed limit to issue speeding tickets in order to raise more revenue. But … I’m also aware that if you are a progressive obsessed with racist cops pulling over blacks, then speed cameras are an objective improvement. In an era of soaring traffic fatalities following the depolicing efforts of the “racial reckoning,” perhaps traffic cameras are the best we can do to stop people people from dying.
Hence:
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You can’t break through with facts Steve.
They will always have magical powers over people like Steve Sailer, John Derbyshire and even Jared Taylor. It is to laugh.Replies: @Curle
Exactly right. Meanwhile this blue-check is true to form. Responds with profanity and name calling; smug and self-congratulatory (yet can’t spell nickel correctly), thinks he’s entrapped his interlocutor when all he’s done is spew establishment talking points, and most of all (as a good tribesman) insists that he shouldn’t have to follow rules. Rules are for the little people! But not the schvartzes of course.
Generational trauma has consequences! Radical repair is indicated! He won’t like the radical repair I have in mind.
Funny how he clearly believes cops are the only people who should follow the law. Not him, not his pets, and certainly not his kind.
The bit where Perlstein says, ‘Turns out, though, examining the EVIDENCE, I was wrong, and so are you.’ Is this what Steve was apologising for with ‘Sorry, my mistake…’?
“Those authorized by the state to use deadly force should follow the law [except in the case of criminal blacks, against whom it would be racist to follow the law, so, better the cops stay in the donut shop]”.
Fortunately, the younger generations are past the point of caring what someone named “Rick Perlstein” thinks.
They will always have magical powers over people like Steve Sailer, John Derbyshire and even Jared Taylor. It is to laugh.
Saying that Blacks are bad citizens because they suffer “generational trauma” is saying that Blacks are children with no culpability for their actions. That they are incapable of acting and are only acted upon.
Perlstein’s crafty casuistry would be less offensive if he tried just a little to seem likeable.
We need a maritime term for when Sailer destroys these shitlibs.
Grounded on his shoals
Capsized
Caught in his rigging
Wreck of the Richard Perlstein
Man Perlstein owned Sailer hard in that exchange. Just a sound butt kicking. No wonder he is a well respected historian.
I showed this exchange to some People of Color and they agreed with me.
If we want to protect Black people we must remove institutional power from the hands of white “men”
He’s an ugly beggar, isn’t he? Is his character ugly too? In other words does there tend to be any correlation between the appearance, specifically of males, and their personality? There must have been psychologists who have studied this sort of thing.
Perlstein, Rick (2008). Nixonland: The Rise of a President and the Fracturing of America
Maybe the Perlsteins are responsible for the fracturing and degrading of America.
The guy has wasted his life writing about a conservative movement that had some major achievements in foreign policy but (famously) “never conserved anything.”
“Generational trauma”
Witchcraft that explains why the Ashkenazi Jews never got anywhere.
He who resists, overcomes. Facts help to resist.
Then there is this guy
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=nate+thurm&qpvt=nate+thurm&view=detail&mid=E618CFD32D8930B5F1BFE618CFD32D8930B5F1BF&&FORM=VRDGAR&ru=%2Fvideos%2Fsearch%3Fq%3Dnate%2Bthurm%26qpvt%3Dnate%2Bthurm%26FORM%3DVDRE
Thanks for the Twitter screenshots, Steve. It’s very hard for an average user (me) to follow exchanges like this. So many other people add sawdust to the conversation that the back-and-forth oatmeal becomes nearly inedible over time.
Two things about Perlstein. First, he’s the editor of In These Times, which I remember well from my lefty days. It was the eagerly-awaited premier intellectual socialist weekly newspaper; maybe it still is.
Second, in relative terms, Perlstein shone in this exchange. He chose to forgo winning the argument by calling you out as a Rrracist and blocking you. (He set you up to lose by outing yourself, but you rascally riposted with a better question (his answer, wasn’t).)
One might mention that living up to Racehorse Haynes standards of discourse isn’t all that high of a bar for a top-flight intellectual, but that’s the Left of the Current Year.
Looks like Perlstein has cemented his cred as a totally blind, doctrinaire left wing moron. Nice job, Sailer.
I’m of two minds:
First, don’t argue with idiots on the internet.
but second,
That’s Entertainment!
full disclosure: I have a liberal brother that’s lived in San Francisco for forty years. The cognitive dissonance is shocking. Like Mr Perlstein, he is well-educated and informed, but like Mr Perlstein he is intellectually dishonest and/or hypocritical in that he refuses to connect his macro-ideals to the consequences at ground level. Thus, regarding the electric grid in California vs the new law mandating electric cars he states the law is ‘aspirational’ and so blithely ignores the real world impact on car manufacturers. He lives in virtual white suburbia despite living in the city limits and remains untouched by violent crime – thus voting against the recall of his D.A. – although he agrees the no bail law should be taken off the books he’ll still vote Dem across the board. When Kamala Harris first started to run for prez he derided her (“nobody likes her”) but once nominated he was an enthusiastic supporter (“smart as a whip!”). Supports open borders, UBI, and every other socialist scheme BUT cheats outrageously on his taxes.
PS: we only talk baseball now. Peace in the family. But I do enjoy watching you two go at it!
Well, he WAS right about cops being big babies and essentially calling a wildcat union strike on enforcing the law because their heavy-handed tactics backfired.
That's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, if every encounter with a criminal leaves you with the possibility of losing everything, your family your freedom etc. even if you are following protocol and you will spend the rest of your life in prison most of it in solitary confinement for your protection, you might see it differently.Replies: @MGB
Nixonland is kind of an interesting book but its hobbled by his bias against Nixon.
One of the biggest lies of the 20th century is that racist Republicans got racist Democrats to vote for them through racism in 1968.
In reality the Democrats were so dominated by racists that when they ran a wishy washy moderate many dems supported the white supremacist Wallace. Independents and not racist Dems supported not racist Nixon (he despised Jews and elite WASPS more than blacks). It helped that Nixon was law and order – one dimensional thinkers like Perlstein immediately view this as racism, obviously because they want to speed, do drugs and hire prostitutes with impunity.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/16/1976_Electoral_College_Map.png
All of this stuff is just soft-headed nonsense - the myths that the likes of Perlstein like to tell one another in order to buttress their moral convictions and strangle any doubts in the cradle. The actual facts and circumstances upon which the myths are forged are besides the point.
“Those authorized by the state to use deadly force should follow the law” seems to mean, in practice, “don’t complain when angry blacks deliberately fed misinformation demand that we throw a white man into the volcano.”
Well he didn’t block him (AFAIK) but he did call him a Rfrracist, tried to put words in his mouth saying that blacks are different and inferior.
Steve wisely avoided the question, but the graphs he posted did the talking. It’s pretty much indisputable in these graphs that (at least when it comes to driving skills) blacks ARE different and inferior to white people. If they weren’t then the black traffic fatality lines would be the same as the white lines. (BTW is it OK to say that blacks are different and SUPERIOR? For example when it comes to running speed? I thought that “different” was good. I think Pearlstein’s “we are all the same” shtick is a generation or two behind current thinking.)
So unless you bury your head in the sand, we already know that blacks behave in a way that is “different and inferior” by many measures, especially (but not only) those involving compliance with law.
WHY they do this is a separate question. Pearlstein (implicitly conceding that blacks ARE in fact “different and inferior” in real world performance of many measures that don’t involve running speed) says it is because blacks have been “generationally traumatized” (presumably by bad white people). This is a kind of voodoo explanation – because what was done to Emmett Till in 1957, Tyshawn today is driving his car into light poles. BTW, why DOESN’T generational trauma affect running speed while it affects other things (IQ, criminality, etc.)?
Our society has been trying to UNtraumatize blacks for at least 3 generations now but it never seems to work. Like all socialist nostrums, when their remedies fail their instinct is to double down and try even harder. We need MORE reparations, more AA, LESS oppression of blacks by the police. And yet somehow the “generational trauma” is never overcome and the “affirmative action” to overcome racism only make things WORSE. Maybe it’s time to look elsewhere for the explanation.
Pearlstein’s ancestors had 1,000 years of oppression in Europe and yet THEIR generational trauma disappeared the minute they stepped off the boat at Ellis Island. Literally – I know of dozens of Jewish family stories where grandpa lands at Ellis Island or flees from Nazi Germany not speaking a word of English and yet a decade later he owns a big business or is a real estate magnate or has gotten thru an American law school or med school and graduated at the top of his class or has become a scientist or professor.
When I see this, I usually check out to avoid wasting my time. Resorting to caricature of the opponent may just be technique, framing the opponent uncharitably and forcing a response to a non-sequitur.
But it also works. To that extent, it is unethical argument. The context does indicate technique, and he's good at it. Knowing that, I will avoid reading him because I cannot be bothered trying to resist a skilled operator trying to plant bugs in my brain.
On the other hand, it may be the last resort. The rhetorical equivalent of throwing the empty gun at the monster. Unless I have a lot of motivation, I don't have time to try reading the mind and intentions, so I presume the cynical interpretation. It's both unethical and bankrupt.
These nobles are very practiced at answering, on behalf of those to their right.That's Perlstein exercising this Droit de Seigneur, LBJ's Make-The-SOB-Deny-It variant.Replies: @Jack D, @Jack D
But there should be a euphemism like, maybe, "The One Standard Deviation Taboo," that gives some plausible deniability to at least refer to the issue. As in, "I'm not necessarily saying the lack of Black Astrophysists at Stanford is due to The One Standard Deviation Taboo, but it sure is consistent." If someone challenges you by saying "what is this taboo of which you speak?" You can truthfully respond, "I can't say, because that would break the taboo."
Surely, they can't throw you off Twitter for refusing to say bad things (can they?).Replies: @Jack D, @G. Poulin, @Pat Kittle
Alternatively, maybe intergenerational trauma is the reason why blacks can run so fast.
That's the beauty of voodoo sociology: once you eliminate reality as a possibility, there's no end to the creative explanations you can conjure.
I think the (usual) reflexive jump from “more violent” to “inferior” tells you all you need to know about Perlman’s opinion.
The “generational trauma” shibboleth is an Eminence Front. As noted a recurring one so we could probably use a theory and a strategy to prevent a fourth (and subsequent) recurrence going forward. Yes progs are the real racists and yes strategies built around that realization aren’t very effective so maybe look at the violence = inferiority premise.
Seems like that one could have some empirical holes in it.
Though insufficient they are nonetheless still necessary.
Shorter Perlstein: Cops should continue to cooperate when political-media leadership defects.
Well, maybe they should, but human beings don’t work that way.
He did turn out to be right about Goldwater. Thanks to antifa for pointing us in the direction of Hatfield. Never lost a race but opposed Vietnam in 1964 on the basis of personal experience so the Interagency Consensus did its thing.
Extremism in the defense of Liberty alone is the definition of Vice. “Do what thou wilt” never conserved anything.
The key part of the exchange (to paraphrase):
Perelstein: You sound like you know blacks are different (and not in a good way), I dare you to admit you know this publicly.
Steve: You know it, too. I dare you to admit it.
Perelstein: Ah, touche. Let’s both pretend we know nothing.
Steve: OK, deal.
Steve wisely avoided the question, but the graphs he posted did the talking. It's pretty much indisputable in these graphs that (at least when it comes to driving skills) blacks ARE different and inferior to white people. If they weren't then the black traffic fatality lines would be the same as the white lines. (BTW is it OK to say that blacks are different and SUPERIOR? For example when it comes to running speed? I thought that "different" was good. I think Pearlstein's "we are all the same" shtick is a generation or two behind current thinking.)
So unless you bury your head in the sand, we already know that blacks behave in a way that is "different and inferior" by many measures, especially (but not only) those involving compliance with law.
WHY they do this is a separate question. Pearlstein (implicitly conceding that blacks ARE in fact "different and inferior" in real world performance of many measures that don't involve running speed) says it is because blacks have been "generationally traumatized" (presumably by bad white people). This is a kind of voodoo explanation - because what was done to Emmett Till in 1957, Tyshawn today is driving his car into light poles. BTW, why DOESN'T generational trauma affect running speed while it affects other things (IQ, criminality, etc.)?
Our society has been trying to UNtraumatize blacks for at least 3 generations now but it never seems to work. Like all socialist nostrums, when their remedies fail their instinct is to double down and try even harder. We need MORE reparations, more AA, LESS oppression of blacks by the police. And yet somehow the "generational trauma" is never overcome and the "affirmative action" to overcome racism only make things WORSE. Maybe it's time to look elsewhere for the explanation.
Pearlstein's ancestors had 1,000 years of oppression in Europe and yet THEIR generational trauma disappeared the minute they stepped off the boat at Ellis Island. Literally - I know of dozens of Jewish family stories where grandpa lands at Ellis Island or flees from Nazi Germany not speaking a word of English and yet a decade later he owns a big business or is a real estate magnate or has gotten thru an American law school or med school and graduated at the top of his class or has become a scientist or professor.Replies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @ic1000, @Hypnotoad666, @silviosilver, @Chebyshev
This.
He did this multiple times, count times he did the “so you are saying….” routine. This is garbage argument and why I avoid Twitter. It is at best impolite, always non-constructive, and almost always unethical.
When I see this, I usually check out to avoid wasting my time. Resorting to caricature of the opponent may just be technique, framing the opponent uncharitably and forcing a response to a non-sequitur.
But it also works. To that extent, it is unethical argument. The context does indicate technique, and he’s good at it. Knowing that, I will avoid reading him because I cannot be bothered trying to resist a skilled operator trying to plant bugs in my brain.
On the other hand, it may be the last resort. The rhetorical equivalent of throwing the empty gun at the monster. Unless I have a lot of motivation, I don’t have time to try reading the mind and intentions, so I presume the cynical interpretation. It’s both unethical and bankrupt.
Steve wisely avoided the question, but the graphs he posted did the talking. It's pretty much indisputable in these graphs that (at least when it comes to driving skills) blacks ARE different and inferior to white people. If they weren't then the black traffic fatality lines would be the same as the white lines. (BTW is it OK to say that blacks are different and SUPERIOR? For example when it comes to running speed? I thought that "different" was good. I think Pearlstein's "we are all the same" shtick is a generation or two behind current thinking.)
So unless you bury your head in the sand, we already know that blacks behave in a way that is "different and inferior" by many measures, especially (but not only) those involving compliance with law.
WHY they do this is a separate question. Pearlstein (implicitly conceding that blacks ARE in fact "different and inferior" in real world performance of many measures that don't involve running speed) says it is because blacks have been "generationally traumatized" (presumably by bad white people). This is a kind of voodoo explanation - because what was done to Emmett Till in 1957, Tyshawn today is driving his car into light poles. BTW, why DOESN'T generational trauma affect running speed while it affects other things (IQ, criminality, etc.)?
Our society has been trying to UNtraumatize blacks for at least 3 generations now but it never seems to work. Like all socialist nostrums, when their remedies fail their instinct is to double down and try even harder. We need MORE reparations, more AA, LESS oppression of blacks by the police. And yet somehow the "generational trauma" is never overcome and the "affirmative action" to overcome racism only make things WORSE. Maybe it's time to look elsewhere for the explanation.
Pearlstein's ancestors had 1,000 years of oppression in Europe and yet THEIR generational trauma disappeared the minute they stepped off the boat at Ellis Island. Literally - I know of dozens of Jewish family stories where grandpa lands at Ellis Island or flees from Nazi Germany not speaking a word of English and yet a decade later he owns a big business or is a real estate magnate or has gotten thru an American law school or med school and graduated at the top of his class or has become a scientist or professor.Replies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @ic1000, @Hypnotoad666, @silviosilver, @Chebyshev
“Of the citizens of your country, which do you hold in contempt?” is the question that those on the left seem unable to ask. Of themselves.
These nobles are very practiced at answering, on behalf of those to their right.
That’s Perlstein exercising this Droit de Seigneur, LBJ’s Make-The-SOB-Deny-It variant.
Perlstein KNOWS that what Steve is saying is true but he wants him to deny it as a form of ritual humiliation in order to remain as a member in good standing of our Society of Built on Lies. Anyone can get you to deny a lie but only the powerful can force you to publicly deny the truth.
It's really just a rhetorical trick. Blacks are not "inferior" before the law. They are not inferior before their Maker. Their blood, bones, organs and teeth are not (much) different from that of white people. But, as a group, they often BEHAVE in a way that is inferior and different to white people.
Pearlstein concedes as much when he skips to explaining WHY they do - according to him, "generational trauma" has "consequences". The "consequences", even in his formulation , are that blacks behave in a way that is DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR. He just doesn't state the DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR part.
"Generational consequences" is a voodoo explanation. The reasonable (but taboo) explanation is that American blacks have BOTH cultural issues (a dysfunctional culture with most black children growing up in single parent (female) households and which holds up criminals as role models) AND genetic differences in intelligence and behavior vs whites.
As for the former, blacks (and white liberals) DON'T WANT blacks to change their culture and as for the latter, this is really scary because there's not a damn thing we can do about it (short of Nazi-like measures).
Some people, when confronted with the fact that they have an incurable disease, refuse to accept it and turn to magic potions, faith healing, etc. because the idea that there is nothing you can do to save yourself is unbearable. What if blacks were not only different and inferior in certain traits (IQ), superior in others (running speed) (on average, as a group - keep in mind that this say nothing about any individual and any individual black might be superior to any given white, especially an inferior white of which there are plenty too) but there was not a damn thing we could ever do about this any more than Clydesdales will ever outrun thoroughbreds? That would be really unbearable. If we can placate the gods with reparation checks and make this nightmare go away forever, isn't that much more pleasant to think?Replies: @Forbes
Arguing with progressive Jewish intellectuals is like Mickey Mouse trying to subdue all those brooms in The Sorcerer’s Apprentice.
I can’t figure out who is more out of touch with reality, Perlstein for believing what he does or Steve for never learning that he’ll never convince the other side.
It’s not a college debate, Steve. It’s a religious war. The other side thinks that you’re evil because you’re a gentile white. Yes, it’s that simple.
Your unwillingness to accept that reality creates a blind side in your thinking that wastes your considerable talent.
Perhaps the Rick Perlsteins have readers who are not so adamantly opposed to reality, who may yet be swayed by a presentation of the facts (insofar as that is possible on Twitter) - or dissuaded by the feeble objections their own side routinely throws up. Either way, as a tourism slogan down my way once put it, "you'll never never know if you never never go."
These nobles are very practiced at answering, on behalf of those to their right.That's Perlstein exercising this Droit de Seigneur, LBJ's Make-The-SOB-Deny-It variant.Replies: @Jack D, @Jack D
I don’t think the Left really tries to hide the fact that they hold “racist” white men like Steve in contempt. In fact they revel in it. The white man at the center of the circular firing squad is what keeps the Coalition of the Fringes aimed at a common target. When that man disappears from an organization (such as within the Woman’s March) they start to take pot shots at each other.
Amazing how quickly he cuts to that. Arguing with the man with the thousand year (Reich) stare…
I follow Perlstein on the bird app and once made a comment on one of his posts in reference to the difference in behavior between blacks and others explaining an unfortunate phenomenon and he responded with a couple of tweets in which he was clearly upset to have this pointed out and essentially said I was a racist.
Like a lot of lefty intellectuals, he has a massive blind spot when it comes to race and retreats to nebulous and unmeasurable stuff like “generational trauma” that apparently is supposed to explain black underperformance, but apparently the generational trauma of lots of relatives and co-ethnics getting executed during WWII had the opposite effect for his own ethnic group. While we are on the subject of generational trauma, what is its effect on whites who were forced to flee their formerly thriving and tight knit urban neighborhoods for a disjointed existence in the suburbs as a result of encroaching black criminality?
Shut up, he explained.
Like a lot of lefty intellectuals, he has a massive blind spot when it comes to race and retreats to nebulous and unmeasurable stuff like "generational trauma" that apparently is supposed to explain black underperformance, but apparently the generational trauma of lots of relatives and co-ethnics getting executed during WWII had the opposite effect for his own ethnic group. While we are on the subject of generational trauma, what is its effect on whites who were forced to flee their formerly thriving and tight knit urban neighborhoods for a disjointed existence in the suburbs as a result of encroaching black criminality?Replies: @Cutter, @Polistra, @Curmudgeon
“While we are on the subject of generational trauma, what is its effect on whites who were forced to flee their formerly thriving and tight knit urban neighborhoods for a disjointed existence in the suburbs as a result of encroaching black criminality?”
Shut up, he explained.
Steve wisely avoided the question, but the graphs he posted did the talking. It's pretty much indisputable in these graphs that (at least when it comes to driving skills) blacks ARE different and inferior to white people. If they weren't then the black traffic fatality lines would be the same as the white lines. (BTW is it OK to say that blacks are different and SUPERIOR? For example when it comes to running speed? I thought that "different" was good. I think Pearlstein's "we are all the same" shtick is a generation or two behind current thinking.)
So unless you bury your head in the sand, we already know that blacks behave in a way that is "different and inferior" by many measures, especially (but not only) those involving compliance with law.
WHY they do this is a separate question. Pearlstein (implicitly conceding that blacks ARE in fact "different and inferior" in real world performance of many measures that don't involve running speed) says it is because blacks have been "generationally traumatized" (presumably by bad white people). This is a kind of voodoo explanation - because what was done to Emmett Till in 1957, Tyshawn today is driving his car into light poles. BTW, why DOESN'T generational trauma affect running speed while it affects other things (IQ, criminality, etc.)?
Our society has been trying to UNtraumatize blacks for at least 3 generations now but it never seems to work. Like all socialist nostrums, when their remedies fail their instinct is to double down and try even harder. We need MORE reparations, more AA, LESS oppression of blacks by the police. And yet somehow the "generational trauma" is never overcome and the "affirmative action" to overcome racism only make things WORSE. Maybe it's time to look elsewhere for the explanation.
Pearlstein's ancestors had 1,000 years of oppression in Europe and yet THEIR generational trauma disappeared the minute they stepped off the boat at Ellis Island. Literally - I know of dozens of Jewish family stories where grandpa lands at Ellis Island or flees from Nazi Germany not speaking a word of English and yet a decade later he owns a big business or is a real estate magnate or has gotten thru an American law school or med school and graduated at the top of his class or has become a scientist or professor.Replies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @ic1000, @Hypnotoad666, @silviosilver, @Chebyshev
I dont know the status of Twitter, currently. But I assume Steve would be banned if he ever said: “well, you know, 100 years of rock-solid data is pretty compelling that blacks are one standard deviation below whites in IQ, and that kind of explains everything.” Or, maybe he would only get banned if he added: “And since this difference applies in all times and places, and can’t be changed by any environmental intervention ever tried, you kinda sorta have to reluctantly conclude that it is due to genetics.”
But there should be a euphemism like, maybe, “The One Standard Deviation Taboo,” that gives some plausible deniability to at least refer to the issue. As in, “I’m not necessarily saying the lack of Black Astrophysists at Stanford is due to The One Standard Deviation Taboo, but it sure is consistent.” If someone challenges you by saying “what is this taboo of which you speak?” You can truthfully respond, “I can’t say, because that would break the taboo.”
Surely, they can’t throw you off Twitter for refusing to say bad things (can they?).
The Left absolutely insists that black dysfunction is 100% due to whitey ("generational trauma") and that's clearly wrong but I think that it's equally wrong to insist that it is 100% due to genetic factors. It's true that ADOS blacks have genetic handicaps when it comes to IQ but so do, for example, Caribbean blacks, Cape Verdean blacks, Nigerian blacks, etc. But the ADOS blacks do even worse than these groups because they have a double whammy of bad genes AND bad culture.Replies: @Chrisnonymous
Likewise with Jews (i.e., "tiny hats," "(((echoes)))," etc.Typically, the challenger (like Perlstein here) knows the taboo, in which case you can truthfully respond, "The only reason you ask is to get be banned from Twitter for telling you what you already know."Replies: @Pat Kittle
Why such low expectations for blacks that he doesn’t have for other groups that have suffered “generational trauma”? And how does that generational trauma work? My great great grandfather was a slave, and therefore I can’t pass that math test?
This guy is supposedly an “intellectual”?
Vulgar language, ad hominem smears, passive-aggressive insinuations, etc. Reminds me of arguing with an hysterical shrew rather than a man of supposed intellectual rigor.
“apparently the generational trauma of lots of relatives and co-ethnics getting executed during WWII had the opposite effect for his own ethnic group.”
I was listening to a bunch of old Derbyshire Radios and it’s actually remarkable how rare he and Steve go for the intellectual killshot. It really is the clincher, if you imagine you seek truth in good faith (like Pearlstein probably does.)
Asians–making more money in white supremacist America, White Privilege whites, hanging in there, of course, low IQ blacks, downtrodden after 50 years of uplift…yet all still muddled and confused, allowing squid ink and chafe to cover various cowardly escapes, if you imagine yourself the inheritor of Enlightenment values, like Pearlstein.
Yet, what if we had a nice little control group to test the hypotheses? What if they were strikingly endowed (say a standard deviation higher than average), small in number, coming from no great wealth, for the most part, perhaps largely immigrants to a new meritocratic society? Would they have outsized impacts exactly as the book “The Bell Curve” predicted, with that IQ/math model even high school freshmen can fully grasp, in a few minutes (lol)?
I’ve seen comments almost persuasively bullying Charles Murray for his blithe attempts to appeal to some kind of genteel, reasonable reader, in his imagination. I view it more spitefully! Somebody like Pearlstein, in possessing a belief in his own reasonable outlook (and having such,) is vulnerable to receiving such facts as to deeply fuck him up, within a ten minute span, were he to engage “in good faith.”
Yet Steve and Derb state those facts pretty rarely? I’ll even meet the anti-semites temperamentally, halfway: Jews producing such influential, bad ideas disproportionately perhaps speaks to a deeply misanthropic, reactionary truth. I’m there with you, and I never thought I would be, 10 years ago! But maybe THAT’S interesting (midwit intellectuals and uplifters like Pearlstein, like largely arising from the proportionally tiny Jewish population, are a blight–but HL Mencken already said that 100 years ago, too.)
These nobles are very practiced at answering, on behalf of those to their right.That's Perlstein exercising this Droit de Seigneur, LBJ's Make-The-SOB-Deny-It variant.Replies: @Jack D, @Jack D
This is far more Orwellian. When LBJ forced his opponent to deny that he was having sex with pigs, LBJ knew that it was not true.
Perlstein KNOWS that what Steve is saying is true but he wants him to deny it as a form of ritual humiliation in order to remain as a member in good standing of our Society of Built on Lies. Anyone can get you to deny a lie but only the powerful can force you to publicly deny the truth.
It’s really just a rhetorical trick. Blacks are not “inferior” before the law. They are not inferior before their Maker. Their blood, bones, organs and teeth are not (much) different from that of white people. But, as a group, they often BEHAVE in a way that is inferior and different to white people.
Pearlstein concedes as much when he skips to explaining WHY they do – according to him, “generational trauma” has “consequences”. The “consequences”, even in his formulation , are that blacks behave in a way that is DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR. He just doesn’t state the DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR part.
“Generational consequences” is a voodoo explanation. The reasonable (but taboo) explanation is that American blacks have BOTH cultural issues (a dysfunctional culture with most black children growing up in single parent (female) households and which holds up criminals as role models) AND genetic differences in intelligence and behavior vs whites.
As for the former, blacks (and white liberals) DON’T WANT blacks to change their culture and as for the latter, this is really scary because there’s not a damn thing we can do about it (short of Nazi-like measures).
Some people, when confronted with the fact that they have an incurable disease, refuse to accept it and turn to magic potions, faith healing, etc. because the idea that there is nothing you can do to save yourself is unbearable. What if blacks were not only different and inferior in certain traits (IQ), superior in others (running speed) (on average, as a group – keep in mind that this say nothing about any individual and any individual black might be superior to any given white, especially an inferior white of which there are plenty too) but there was not a damn thing we could ever do about this any more than Clydesdales will ever outrun thoroughbreds? That would be really unbearable. If we can placate the gods with reparation checks and make this nightmare go away forever, isn’t that much more pleasant to think?
Generational trauma huh … Would this guy happen to be a third generation holocaust survivor?
Game summary
Penalty on Steve for excited misuse of time series, though he managed to recover.
However, more serious penalties on Perlstein for use of ‘so you seem to be saying’ and ‘so what you’re saying’. These dragged down his performance in the later part of the game.
Overall winner: Sailer.
Post-game commentary
This demands one or more Halloween pics of Steve as Walter Sobchak. While we know it may be difficult to arrange, Perlstein should ideally also appear as a turtleneck nihilist.
I spent an inordinate amount of time on the road over the last year, and the most dangerous trend I have noticed post-BLM is not speeding but instead running red lights. People have started accelerating when they see a yellow light. This is very dangerous, as t-bone collisions are often deadly.
When I see an opposite yellow (for example when making a left or when my own light has just turned green) I always wait to see if the opposite or cross traffic has stopped before proceeding. Nowadays often not only the car in the intersection but 2 or 3 cars behind him will go thru a complete red (this is easily fixed with red light cameras btw – not the hokey money making ones that are linked to too-short yellows or catch people turning left but ones that catch people in the intersection going straight thru a fully red light). Only when it is clear that the opposing traffic has come to a complete stop do I proceed. You really need to drive defensively.
Yes, driving defensively is necessary for safety.
This Perlstein may be a decent author of political books (I doubt it), but he sounds like a typical lefty poser with a beard and problem glasses. Mr. Highbrow Above it All until confronted with reality and then the profanity (“asshole”), sputtering, and accusing people of being “racisss” starts. Cops are “babies” because they don’t want to end up in jail for 140 years or whatever like Derek Chauvin thanks to Bolshevik commissars with the “Justice” Department like this creep? Please.
I’m surprised he didn’t call you out for your graph’s color scheme.
Self-identified “fellow white people” are easy to dunk on.
GigaSailer remains undefeated.
Maybe Rick Perlstein can talk to Illinois State Senator Emil Jones III and ask why he amended legislation to have red light cameras, which also nickel and dime Illinois drivers, installed in the city and suburbs. I’ll bet he gets 5,000 reasons why.
https://news.wttw.com/2022/09/20/state-sen-emil-jones-iii-took-bribes-red-light-camera-company-lied-feds-charges
“Federal prosecutors charged state Sen. Emil Jones III, D-Chicago, with three felonies on Tuesday, alleging that he took a $5,000 bribe from a firm that installed red-light cameras throughout the state and lied to Federal Bureau of Investigation agents.”
Ah, Sweet (former) Home Chicago.
Yes. I thought so also. There could still be other explanations for the differences : for example blacks, hispanics, etc are more likely to hold the kind of low paying, low status jobs that can’t be done remotely so they were traveling on roadways more than other people. Hence, they had more opportunities to be in accidents. Pearlman didn’t explore any of those alternative explanations and made that switch to hbd really fast. He must be familiar with Steve’s body of work.
The other day I saw a Baltimore transit bus blow thru a redlight –and it wasn’t a judgement call on a yellow. If someone driven into that intersection it would have been a helluva mess.
“Generational trauma”
What is that supposed to mean?
Perlstein throws that out in his argument but assumes we all know what it is. Hardly.
This is a rhetorical-propaganda gimmick in which some invented phrase or word is thrown in as bait to see if you will bite on it. If you do, you lose.
Who is supposed to have this “trauma”? Is it a racial thing? A family thing? An entho-religious thing? (as in Jews, Mormons, Jehovahs Witness, Quaker…?). Is it based on nationality? (Germans are permanently evil, Japanese not so much…)
How can one identify or recognize ones own “generational trauma”?
This can of course simply mean ones own family history and dynamics. Alcoholism or drug addictions. Destructive infidelity. Criminal behavior. Mental instability. Whatever negative family history you may have, if it affected your own life or the lives of your siblings.
But somehow, I think Perlstein is suggesting far narrower and more targeted groups and meanings.
Some groups get a pass, one suspects. Due to this mysterious “get out of self responsibility” notion. Where your own actions are not your choices, but due to inherited factors beyond your control.
A nice Get Out of Jail card to play, if you can find a sucker to take it.
I just find it hilarious that Perlstein is upset by all the traffic tickets he must be getting for speeding. You get what you vote for, you dumbass.
You can’t reason someone out of an opinion they didn’t reason their way into.
Perlstein KNOWS that what Steve is saying is true but he wants him to deny it as a form of ritual humiliation in order to remain as a member in good standing of our Society of Built on Lies. Anyone can get you to deny a lie but only the powerful can force you to publicly deny the truth.
It's really just a rhetorical trick. Blacks are not "inferior" before the law. They are not inferior before their Maker. Their blood, bones, organs and teeth are not (much) different from that of white people. But, as a group, they often BEHAVE in a way that is inferior and different to white people.
Pearlstein concedes as much when he skips to explaining WHY they do - according to him, "generational trauma" has "consequences". The "consequences", even in his formulation , are that blacks behave in a way that is DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR. He just doesn't state the DIFFERENT AND INFERIOR part.
"Generational consequences" is a voodoo explanation. The reasonable (but taboo) explanation is that American blacks have BOTH cultural issues (a dysfunctional culture with most black children growing up in single parent (female) households and which holds up criminals as role models) AND genetic differences in intelligence and behavior vs whites.
As for the former, blacks (and white liberals) DON'T WANT blacks to change their culture and as for the latter, this is really scary because there's not a damn thing we can do about it (short of Nazi-like measures).
Some people, when confronted with the fact that they have an incurable disease, refuse to accept it and turn to magic potions, faith healing, etc. because the idea that there is nothing you can do to save yourself is unbearable. What if blacks were not only different and inferior in certain traits (IQ), superior in others (running speed) (on average, as a group - keep in mind that this say nothing about any individual and any individual black might be superior to any given white, especially an inferior white of which there are plenty too) but there was not a damn thing we could ever do about this any more than Clydesdales will ever outrun thoroughbreds? That would be really unbearable. If we can placate the gods with reparation checks and make this nightmare go away forever, isn't that much more pleasant to think?Replies: @Forbes
That’s a keeper! Especially “voodoo explanation,” I’m stealing that.
I don’t know what Steve Sailer and his acolytes here are smoking, but Perlstein utterly owned that exchange. He came across like an informed and knowledgeable gentleman, whereas Steve came across, as he always does, like a testicularly-aplasiac moron high on paint fumes and hallucinating causal connections that don’t exist, while hiding behind a keyboard and needling his social betters in a pathetic attempt to gain attention. Worthy foe, indeed.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn’t have the appetite for.
You can’t just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites—almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don’t think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the “HBD” signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?
And by the way, your “apples to apples” comparison is astonishingly easy to do. In a just a few minutes I looked up the murder rates for Baltimore, Maryland and Marion County, West Virginia. Marion County is the poorest county in West Virginia and has the lowest per capita income. The murder rate is 1/4 that of Baltimore.
But at least your admission that IQ is real and measurable is a sort of progress.Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Jack D, @Sir Launcelot Canning
But if that's the case, both Perlstein and Sailer are wrong, because both Perlstein and Sailer claimed the graphs were conclusive ("all your stats explain that well", says Perlstein). The only difference was in the conclusions drawn by each of them. As per your reasoning, Perlstein should follow your procedure in order to established causal relations with "generational trauma" or whatever.
There is a big difference between exogenous and endogenous factors.
If you're talking about something reasonably exogenous--say urbanity, or living in the South, or "has a 10 mile commute on freeways and arterials" to get to work**--and you think that screen makes a difference then be all means go get comparables. (**Note simply having a job you commute miles to isn't really exogenous to race.)
But most of your "social relevant ways" are precisely the result of mental traits like IQ, time-preference, conscientiousness, agreeableness, aggression, which are precisely what HBD--and the best evidence--suggests differ among various racial and ethnic groups. If you look at only say 100 IQ people who are HS graduates, hold a steady job and have never been in trouble with the law, whites and blacks will indeed be much more alike. But that's because that selection is screening off a good chunk of HBD variance. (Such individuals are quite a bit more atypical for blacks than for whites.)
~~
But because the HBD differences are so big, even with the sort of population matching you are talking about, the gaps are still there.
For instance, a few years back I saw a breakdown of homicide by race/income. And blacks in the top quintile of US income had a homicide rate of 4 (std. per 100k per annum). Compared to whites in the top quintile <1. (And this is relatively a much, much more elite slice of the black population than the white). And whites even in the lowest quintile of US income had a rate of 5.
I.e. the forget the straight up matching you suggest, the most economically successful blacks (presumably smartest, hardest working and bolted down) match up in homicide to the dumbest, laziest and half-assed whites.
So the "socially relevant" matching you imply--which even if it yielded identical results between races would not negate HBD--has pretty much been done and the gaps are still huge.Replies: @Twinkie, @Brutusale, @Jack D
Indeed. Especially when arguing with someone whose inherent, behavioral religious module is highly activated. As others have noted, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the descendants of Jews and Puritans are overrepresented among the woke.
Recently I had a conversation with a ‘homeless advocate’ in my progressive Whiteopia. When I cited several studies to support my claim that the vast majority of our homeless residents were from out of state, the homeless advocate dismissed my sources and countered with an assertion devoid of facts. Their only argument was to repeat their assertion (which of course is not an argument). It was then that I realized this is precisely what religious people do: make assertions unsupported by facts while outrightly dismissing facts that don’t support their assertion.
The loss of traditional religion is an important part of the rise of Wokianity. The same woman that, 140 years ago, would be an obsessively devout church lady pestering you about your faith and church attendance is now parading their BLM sign and telling you that you’re racist. Some people (me) are naturally predisposed to be less religious and it’s easier for us to look at things like HBD objectively (without getting butthurt). But for those inclined to religion and raised in a progressive bubble it can lead to disaster.
The left is in Jihad mode. I’m not sure we can win this war with facts and arguments.
How does the “generational trauma” argument hold water when Jews who survived the holocaust moved to other countries and thrived to the extent that they often became the most successful socioeconomic group in their adopted countries? The holocaust is both more recent than slavery and was considerably more brutal than slavery.
I’d be more inclined to believe this theory if Jews comprised the underclass of every country they lived in.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
“Social science” is an oxymoron. Actual science is what you should want.
It’s already solved, genius—just take a look at the differences in racial appearance. Whites are far superior, in the aggregate, on that metric alone. 100% nature, baby. If you want to wordcel your way out of Black behavioral problems, bring the numbers…
QED
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
Verdict: From now on, will be known as just ‘Dasein’.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
If you compare only Dutchmen who are 5’6” tall to only Guatemalans who are 5’6” tall you will also find that the genetic signals for height disappear. HBD is about the statistical distribution of characteristics in populations. Pretending not to understand that is disingenuous.
And by the way, your “apples to apples” comparison is astonishingly easy to do. In a just a few minutes I looked up the murder rates for Baltimore, Maryland and Marion County, West Virginia. Marion County is the poorest county in West Virginia and has the lowest per capita income. The murder rate is 1/4 that of Baltimore.
But at least your admission that IQ is real and measurable is a sort of progress.
"I have a theory that short Dutchmen are less successful in the Dutch marriage market than tall Dutchmen, because women tend to prefer taller men. In order to test this theory, I'm going to compare a select group of 5'6" Dutchmen against another group of 6'2" Dutchmen who agree with the first group on every other socioeconomic metric that is often claimed to be relevant to marriage success. This will allow me to isolate shortness as a factor."Not exactly. HBD is actually the assertion that the differential statistical distribution of (some) characteristics in populations is due to their racial makeup. HBD is not a value-neutral observation; it implies a causative factor. The existence (or nonexistence) of this factor is a hypothesis that can be tested for by regressing for racial differences while holding other factors constant.I'm not pretending not to understand anything. I certainly understand what you think and believe about this subject. I just don't agree with it.How in the hell is that a regression for race alone? You are comparing a rural county with 20,000 people in it to an urban area of half a million. These people have very different lives, not just different races. It seems like question-begging is a particular talent of yours.This one is not even wrong. Nothing I said here involves an admission that IQ is real and measurable, but neither have I denied that in the past. Again, you are not even engaging with anything I've actually said.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PtP-9Hzfe9s/T5eRcTfFFMI/AAAAAAAAAaI/02XRuV-KVZE/s1600/bell%2Bcurve%2Bn.jpgReplies: @Intelligent Dasein
Have police run the risk of using deadly force in traffic stops? What about selling loose cigarettes.? What a way to end a discussion with a flippant unserious response. He and those of his ilk have no intention of granting the police the leeway needed to do their jobs
Black Labs Matter was all about hampering those enforcing the law and installing those who selectively prosecute the law.
As for generational trauma, it has the scientific pedigree of gender studies. If it has a scientific basis then laws could be passed on that basis, like forbidding all Blacks from owning guns for the next five generations. Otherwise appealing to generational trauma is a Deus ex machine argument to shut down the argument.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
Unintelligent Design
damned if you do damned if you don’t and doubly damned if they pull over Rick Perlstein.
Hi I Steve,
I’m left behind in a famous integrated university community on Chicago’s South Side – Obamas made it their base of operations.
The surrounding neighborhoods have been 98% Black African American since the mid 1960s.
Violent (Black and Latino gang) crime has been a constant my whole life, but you are correct the post George Floyd BLM racial recognizing has resulted in a very noticeable change in traffic dangers. Driving on Lake Shore Drive and the Dan Ryan is often like something out of a Mad Max movie.
Teen drivers of color can basically get away with anything and they do – LSD speed limit is supposedly to be 45 MPH, I rove ~ 52 cars fly by me going in and out of lanes like I’m stopped.
Most morning walks I see the wreckage from the night before guard rails smashed down, car body parts.
Also there are many vehicles on roads, pathways and sidewalks I had never seen before – all kins of Electro bikes that can go as fast as smaller motorcycles. Then there are these one week vehicles out of a Robocop movie.
I’ve pretty much given up all bicycling as I can’t go fast enough to hold the lane on the street, walking is best as one can step aside and if you do go down, you’re not traveling so it’s a straight take down.
Mexicans now compete with B A Americans to take over certain streets in the Loop and do something called donuting. But it’s the drive by shootings out of cars on the streets that causes more murder and mayhem and this is definitely B African American.
Hey Steve – I take it you are familiar with these Chicago Go To blogs for tell it like it is true crime stats and stories with honest presentation of racial realities.
http://WWW.HeyJackAss.com
Crime in WrigleyVille and Boystown.
Best Chicago Tribune Greek American Writer John Kass got purged from the Chicago Tribune by “Woke” libs who objected to him mentioning George Soros funding Kim Foxx and other “Let the Criminals GO Free” BLM District Attorneys. He nows has a paid personal blog JohnKass News – maybe you can contact him and get him to writer for Vdare, Taking and or Unz.
Keep the faith Chicago brother – once you were here in Chicago you can never really leave.
J Ryan
TPC Radio Show.
One of the biggest lies of the 20th century is that racist Republicans got racist Democrats to vote for them through racism in 1968.
In reality the Democrats were so dominated by racists that when they ran a wishy washy moderate many dems supported the white supremacist Wallace. Independents and not racist Dems supported not racist Nixon (he despised Jews and elite WASPS more than blacks). It helped that Nixon was law and order - one dimensional thinkers like Perlstein immediately view this as racism, obviously because they want to speed, do drugs and hire prostitutes with impunity.Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Moses
My favorite picture of the fruits of Nixon’s “Southern Strategy:”
All of this stuff is just soft-headed nonsense – the myths that the likes of Perlstein like to tell one another in order to buttress their moral convictions and strangle any doubts in the cradle. The actual facts and circumstances upon which the myths are forged are besides the point.
Well, he WAS right about cops being big babies and essentially calling a wildcat union strike on enforcing the law because their heavy-handed tactics backfired.
That’s one way of looking at it. On the other hand, if every encounter with a criminal leaves you with the possibility of losing everything, your family your freedom etc. even if you are following protocol and you will spend the rest of your life in prison most of it in solitary confinement for your protection, you might see it differently.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
You begin by saying that Perlstein is right and Sailer is wrong. Then you proceed to detail a better way of studying the issue than the allegedly simplistic graphs which Sailer showed.
But if that’s the case, both Perlstein and Sailer are wrong, because both Perlstein and Sailer claimed the graphs were conclusive (“all your stats explain that well”, says Perlstein). The only difference was in the conclusions drawn by each of them. As per your reasoning, Perlstein should follow your procedure in order to established causal relations with “generational trauma” or whatever.
If you were trying to isolate the factors that make a young man more likely to murder or be murdered, as a Chicago study has done, you would look at things like prior convictions, gang affiliation, family members incarcerated, prior times shooting at someone or being shot at, neighborhood.
You could look at a young white man with a father and a brother in prison, two uncles murdered, an alcoholic grandfather who was in and out and the other unknown, frequent police visits to childhood home, member of a gang dealing drugs, carries a gun, self-treated bullet wound in leg, ten arrests, served two six month sentences, baby mama withdrew domestic violence charges, baby taken into foster care, flashes cash in videos, unemployed – and correctly and reasonably conclude that he has a high chance of killing or being killed in the next few years.
That doesn’t mean that the pool of young white men with such dire life history is anywhere near proportionate to the pool of young black men.
If prior drug use, or criminal history, or education levels, or IQ, are relevant to the rate of fatal motor vehicle accidents, you can’t control for those characteristics simply because they correlate with race, to conclude, once the B-factor is removed, rates are very similar.
I’ve read three of the Perlstein books Steve listed. I’ve recommended them to friends. Nixonland and The Invisible Bridge are works I will return to. That said, Steve tagged and bagged Perstein. And he did it in a gentlemanly fashion. Blacks are the left’s Achillies Heel: they are sacred beyond reason to progressive activists and intellectuals. It’s a weird miasma of paternalism, fear, sexual obsession, and virtue signaling that jellifies their brains.
You dorks are like Frank Sinatra, “All or Nothing at All.”
What, you think families, generations, attitudes and traditions and habits and things handed down, family troubles, “generational trauma” mean nothing at all?
Let me set you straight.
If your father is a pimp and your mother is a whore, you’re probably going to grow up to be a pimp or a whore.
If your father is an engineer and your mother is a physics teacher, you’re probably going to end up a STEM something or other.
If your father leaves you a little cash, your old age might end up being a little easier than if he doesn’t.
Maybe generational trauma isn’t the end all be all. But it shore ain’t nothin. Sorry.
I think, though, it's possible that the seeming taboo on black leaders calling out poor behaviour by other black people "may" have roots in slavery.
I know they called it out pre-50s, but then bad black behaviour attracted sanctions from white people, which didn't always discriminate and were sometimes implemented "with extreme prejudice", so it was in their interests to do so.
However, when it comes to East Asians, all bets are off. If you ask an Asian American engineer what his father did, chances are he worked in a restaurant or a laundry.
Jews have worked their way up the ladder, but in the first off the boat generations (I'm one) it was very typical for the parents of successful scientists or professionals to be uneducated. Dick Feynman's dad Melville (Moshe?) came from Minsk as a small child and was a (not very successful) small businessman, not a scientist. My father was a chicken farmer and not only was he not learned in the law, he was completely illiterate in the Roman alphabet. He was more illiterate than the least educated black person in America who can at least read a Colt-45 label (my father once mistook furniture polish for cooking oil). There were no English books in my house (unless I took them out of the library). Actually no Yiddish books either - neither of my parents were book readers, although they would read the Yiddish newspaper. And talk about generational trauma - 90% of the people he grew up with were murdered and he came within a hair himself. But somehow this did not affect my SAT scores. Magic I guess.Replies: @Curle
I showed this exchange to some People of Color and they agreed with me.
If we want to protect Black people we must remove institutional power from the hands of white “men”Replies: @fish
Oh STiny’s…..!
But there should be a euphemism like, maybe, "The One Standard Deviation Taboo," that gives some plausible deniability to at least refer to the issue. As in, "I'm not necessarily saying the lack of Black Astrophysists at Stanford is due to The One Standard Deviation Taboo, but it sure is consistent." If someone challenges you by saying "what is this taboo of which you speak?" You can truthfully respond, "I can't say, because that would break the taboo."
Surely, they can't throw you off Twitter for refusing to say bad things (can they?).Replies: @Jack D, @G. Poulin, @Pat Kittle
I think that there are in fact radical interventions that would erase perhaps (for lack of a better number) HALF of the gap, but these go far beyond what has ever been tried or could be tried. For example, you could #1, confine pregnant black females during pregnancy so that their fetuses were not damaged by drugs or alcohol and #2, at the moment of birth, arrange for the adoption of their children by intact middle class black families (including Caribbean and Igbo families).
The Left absolutely insists that black dysfunction is 100% due to whitey (“generational trauma”) and that’s clearly wrong but I think that it’s equally wrong to insist that it is 100% due to genetic factors. It’s true that ADOS blacks have genetic handicaps when it comes to IQ but so do, for example, Caribbean blacks, Cape Verdean blacks, Nigerian blacks, etc. But the ADOS blacks do even worse than these groups because they have a double whammy of bad genes AND bad culture.
If you start thinking about the nature-nurture question that way, it might dispose you away from Steve's 50/50, or least change what "nurture" means in that ratio.
Well, he despises cops, who perform a necessary function that producers of popular history do not. And he manifests magical thinking in social relations, wherein a phenomenon exists because you’ve invented a term for an inchoate notion in your head (“Generational trauma”).
Most speed limits have nothing to do with safety, but are set irrationally low in order to increase revenue collection by the state. This also applies to most traffic laws.
Carrying out the edicts of a group of people so degenerate and with such low morals that they became legislators. Cops are among the lowest scum on this earth, little better than child molesters.
Goyishe cops!
What is that supposed to mean?
Perlstein throws that out in his argument but assumes we all know what it is. Hardly.
This is a rhetorical-propaganda gimmick in which some invented phrase or word is thrown in as bait to see if you will bite on it. If you do, you lose.
Who is supposed to have this "trauma"? Is it a racial thing? A family thing? An entho-religious thing? (as in Jews, Mormons, Jehovahs Witness, Quaker...?). Is it based on nationality? (Germans are permanently evil, Japanese not so much...)
How can one identify or recognize ones own "generational trauma"?
This can of course simply mean ones own family history and dynamics. Alcoholism or drug addictions. Destructive infidelity. Criminal behavior. Mental instability. Whatever negative family history you may have, if it affected your own life or the lives of your siblings.
But somehow, I think Perlstein is suggesting far narrower and more targeted groups and meanings.
Some groups get a pass, one suspects. Due to this mysterious "get out of self responsibility" notion. Where your own actions are not your choices, but due to inherited factors beyond your control.
A nice Get Out of Jail card to play, if you can find a sucker to take it.Replies: @Emblematic, @duncsbaby
It’s the new Lamarckism. A misunderstanding of epigenetics.
I like how Perlstein resorts to the Cathy Newman, “so, what you are saying is…” tactic.
Steve wisely avoided the question, but the graphs he posted did the talking. It's pretty much indisputable in these graphs that (at least when it comes to driving skills) blacks ARE different and inferior to white people. If they weren't then the black traffic fatality lines would be the same as the white lines. (BTW is it OK to say that blacks are different and SUPERIOR? For example when it comes to running speed? I thought that "different" was good. I think Pearlstein's "we are all the same" shtick is a generation or two behind current thinking.)
So unless you bury your head in the sand, we already know that blacks behave in a way that is "different and inferior" by many measures, especially (but not only) those involving compliance with law.
WHY they do this is a separate question. Pearlstein (implicitly conceding that blacks ARE in fact "different and inferior" in real world performance of many measures that don't involve running speed) says it is because blacks have been "generationally traumatized" (presumably by bad white people). This is a kind of voodoo explanation - because what was done to Emmett Till in 1957, Tyshawn today is driving his car into light poles. BTW, why DOESN'T generational trauma affect running speed while it affects other things (IQ, criminality, etc.)?
Our society has been trying to UNtraumatize blacks for at least 3 generations now but it never seems to work. Like all socialist nostrums, when their remedies fail their instinct is to double down and try even harder. We need MORE reparations, more AA, LESS oppression of blacks by the police. And yet somehow the "generational trauma" is never overcome and the "affirmative action" to overcome racism only make things WORSE. Maybe it's time to look elsewhere for the explanation.
Pearlstein's ancestors had 1,000 years of oppression in Europe and yet THEIR generational trauma disappeared the minute they stepped off the boat at Ellis Island. Literally - I know of dozens of Jewish family stories where grandpa lands at Ellis Island or flees from Nazi Germany not speaking a word of English and yet a decade later he owns a big business or is a real estate magnate or has gotten thru an American law school or med school and graduated at the top of his class or has become a scientist or professor.Replies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @ic1000, @Hypnotoad666, @silviosilver, @Chebyshev
Who says it doesn’t affect black running speed? We can only guess how much faster blacks might have run had it not been for intergenerational trauma.
Alternatively, maybe intergenerational trauma is the reason why blacks can run so fast.
That’s the beauty of voodoo sociology: once you eliminate reality as a possibility, there’s no end to the creative explanations you can conjure.
It's not a college debate, Steve. It's a religious war. The other side thinks that you're evil because you're a gentile white. Yes, it's that simple.
Your unwillingness to accept that reality creates a blind side in your thinking that wastes your considerable talent.Replies: @silviosilver, @Anonymous
So what do you want him to do, preach to the converted?
Perhaps the Rick Perlsteins have readers who are not so adamantly opposed to reality, who may yet be swayed by a presentation of the facts (insofar as that is possible on Twitter) – or dissuaded by the feeble objections their own side routinely throws up. Either way, as a tourism slogan down my way once put it, “you’ll never never know if you never never go.”
I want the left to be correct. I want there to be some special program that will eliminate black dysfunction forever.
However, after a half century of trying there has been no progress. After literally trillions of dollars in programs, funding and sacrificed urban real estate, there has been no progress. After the criminal victimization and general upheaval of hundreds of thousands of white lives, there has been almost no progress.
I am willing to let the left keep trying in their own spaces, but not at the expense of the few remaining shreds of western civilization. When they figure out a way to overcome “generational trauma” and turn Detroit into Boise without changing the demographics, we can talk. Until then, bring back free association.
That’s legitimately funny, AD!
Steve wisely avoided the question, but the graphs he posted did the talking. It's pretty much indisputable in these graphs that (at least when it comes to driving skills) blacks ARE different and inferior to white people. If they weren't then the black traffic fatality lines would be the same as the white lines. (BTW is it OK to say that blacks are different and SUPERIOR? For example when it comes to running speed? I thought that "different" was good. I think Pearlstein's "we are all the same" shtick is a generation or two behind current thinking.)
So unless you bury your head in the sand, we already know that blacks behave in a way that is "different and inferior" by many measures, especially (but not only) those involving compliance with law.
WHY they do this is a separate question. Pearlstein (implicitly conceding that blacks ARE in fact "different and inferior" in real world performance of many measures that don't involve running speed) says it is because blacks have been "generationally traumatized" (presumably by bad white people). This is a kind of voodoo explanation - because what was done to Emmett Till in 1957, Tyshawn today is driving his car into light poles. BTW, why DOESN'T generational trauma affect running speed while it affects other things (IQ, criminality, etc.)?
Our society has been trying to UNtraumatize blacks for at least 3 generations now but it never seems to work. Like all socialist nostrums, when their remedies fail their instinct is to double down and try even harder. We need MORE reparations, more AA, LESS oppression of blacks by the police. And yet somehow the "generational trauma" is never overcome and the "affirmative action" to overcome racism only make things WORSE. Maybe it's time to look elsewhere for the explanation.
Pearlstein's ancestors had 1,000 years of oppression in Europe and yet THEIR generational trauma disappeared the minute they stepped off the boat at Ellis Island. Literally - I know of dozens of Jewish family stories where grandpa lands at Ellis Island or flees from Nazi Germany not speaking a word of English and yet a decade later he owns a big business or is a real estate magnate or has gotten thru an American law school or med school and graduated at the top of his class or has become a scientist or professor.Replies: @Dr. DoomNGloom, @ic1000, @Hypnotoad666, @silviosilver, @Chebyshev
Exactly right.
That’s not really true; see Ron’s very good article on the subject:
https://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-anti-semitism-a-century-ago/
Jews were incubated within European societies for 1,000 years during which they had specific occupations, and, as a result, their IQs increased a lot.
(Frankly: for European Americans to thrive we will need to be more like the Jewish people, at least in our attitudes and willingness to engage in self defense and redevelop a special mission for ourselves).
I think for blacks what has to be galling is how relatively easy many very poor immigrants from the humblest countries, without any English and not much in the way of support from the broader culture have made successes of themselves within a generation or two: Mexicans (at least here in Texas), Vietnamese, Cubans, Brazilians. Etc.
These people literally arrive with nothing and within a generation or two develop a strong middle class, educate their children, etc.
Blacks have been free since 1865, with trillions showered on them and nothing to show for it.Replies: @Chebyshev
Actual science is exactly what I was proposing. You evidently don’t understand what the term ‘social science’ means, but nonetheless you might want to register your displeasure in it with Steve Sailer, who referred to the data he used in the OP as “a shocking social science stat.”
Are you serious with this dreck? If so, would you like to explain how superior white appearance results in fewer traffic fatalities? That is the topic here, after all.
The numbers are precisely what I was calling for. Do you even comprehend anything that I wrote? It doesn’t seem so. Your purely reactive remarks are not even engaging it.
When the political establishment, including law enforcement leadership and government prosecutors signals that you will be disciplined according to public outrage over accusations regardless of facts, they have made the “de facto” law to be “don’t police black people”. Remember that police do not operate by following the legislature, reading the text of bills and laws passed, and then instituting those as read. The police are a top-down executive who are told what the law is by superiors. If their leaders say one thing explicitly and signal another thing, you can’t blame them for noticing the signal.
Rich Phlegmlstone IV awoke to find himself transported in time, back to 1850 Africa to be precise. After a long, perilous journey, he had stumbled into a city on a river which served as the local gathering and distribution point for slave trading. Heading up the operation was the big King.
The King was amicably disposed towards Europeans with whom he carried on a lively slave trade. Assuming Rich had come to buy slaves, the King extended every hospitality to him. Would he like to rest in a hut? Recover from his long journey? Yes, of course. And then, tonight, a feast.
And so, after a restful sleep, Rich was awoken in anticipation of the fine feast that was to be laid out. Tonight’s entree? Monkey meat!
Now Rich, being in reality a 21st century American and not a seasoned African explorer, had never tasted monkey meat, but, he reasoned with himself, hadn’t he better try it if for no other reason than to strike one item off of his bucket list? On the other hand, his conscience troubled him, isn’t a monkey rather close to us on the phylogenetic scale and therefore somewhat taboo? Well, you only live once and “I’ll try anything twice!”, he said and laughed to himself at his little joke.
And so he ate, and it was delicious. A gourd was passed around from which he drank deeply. He got very tipsy. “Woah!, that’s some strong stuff”.
After dinner there was dancing and the tribe happily cavorted until it was time for bed. The King slung his arm around Rich’s shoulders and told him he was liken unto a son to him and how inasmuch as he was a grand King, he could not let it be said that he had allowed a treasured guest to go to bed lonely and unaccompanied. A consort would be provided for him and would that be okay? Surely Rich must need the company of a female after so many days on the trail?
Yes, yes, fine. A female companion. Grand. And so the King instructed an aide to show Rich to his sleeping quarters. Once inside, his guide made sure Rich was comfortable, showed him where his bed was and told him that his consort would join him in short order. Then he left. Rich lay down on the bed, hands laced together behind his head and gazed around him. The only light was from the moon, shining through a hole high in the thatched ceiling. As his eyes adjusted to the darkness he found that he could just make things out.
Directly, Rich heard a rustle and the soft swish of fabric on straw. A figure approached. She found the bed and lay down beside him. She was soft, smooth and warm to the touch and wore a light night gown made out of fine threads. She seemed to have the right amount of padding in the right places and things progressed swimmingly. There could be no doubt that his consort was eager and capable. In the dark, Rich could just make out her form, which was a bit odd, now that he could see her better. When the light struck her face, he was surprised to see that it was decidedly, well, “primitive” is the only word for it. Her brow ridge was definitely more prominent than any woman’s he had ever been to bed with. As well, her lower jaw and teeth projected further from her face than any woman he had known. It was with a bit of a shock that he said to himself, “This woman is somewhat like an homo Erectus”. Aghast, he fumbled for his flashlight with which he illuminated her face, and let out a yell.
What the hell? The “woman” he had been playing with was the most primitive human he had ever seen. What he had taken for a sheer nightgown was, in fact, a fine coat of fur. And yet….
And yet they had been cavorting together rather well, he noted. So what? So what if she was a bit primitive? She was still a human being, right? And after all, weren’t we humans held back in our evolutionary quest by sexual hangups? Didn’t Marcuse, Wilhelm Reich, Freud, Fromm and Adorno, Friedan, Steinem and Jong place the roots of the fascist personality in sexual exclusivity? Isn’t this same sexual exclusivity what created the patriarchy and private property and treating women as domestic servants and sex slaves? Besides, what if she really was a Homo Erectus? What a discovery! He would be famous. And just think what he could tell the other faculty of the Anthro Department! Not only had he discovered her, but he had schtupped her. That would be good for a round of faculty lounge jokes.
So, to consummate the act with this she-creature was to strike a blow against the Protestant patriarchy and for the evolution of the human Spirit. “Besides”, he said aloud, “I’ll try anything twice!” And with that, he plunged on.
The next morning found our weary hero relaxed and happy. Whatever they had drunk the night before had made him both erotically potent and suffused him with a warm afterglow of supreme contentment. His nighttime companion was gone. He went out to see what the day would bring.
“And did you sleep well?”, enquired the King.
“Yes, yes, very well, thank you.”
“And did you find your companion, “monkey woman”, acceptable? Did she fulfill your needs?
“I’ll say! She sure shinnied up and down my pole like a “monkey”, as you call her. No complaints there, King.”
“Well then, that’s good. Sit down to breakfast and afterwards, we can discuss your buying slaves. But first food.” And with that he clapped his hands together three times and yelled, “Bring more monkey meat for our guest!”
“Hey, wait King. Did you say, ‘monkey meat’?”
“Well, yes. Of course.”
“The same monkey as in the monkey woman I slept with last night?”
“Why yes, one and the same. We eat them. We breed and raise them like livestock, like you do your cattle or sheep.”
Horror shuddered from Rich’s head to tailbone. He had eaten human flesh. He was about to be sick and actually gagged.
“What’s the matter?”, asked the King. “You look unwell.”
“I think I’ll skip breakfast. Maybe just a cup of weak tea. I overindulged last night.”
And with that, Rich Phlegmstone woke up.
“It had all been a dream”, he said to himself with relief. “I havn’t eaten a fellow human being or even a human-like creature. I am not a cannibal. Thank goodness.”
The doorbell rang.
With featherlight feet he hastened to answer it. “Yes?”
“Are you Richard Phlegmstone IV?”
“Yes, why?”
“And was your Great Grandfather the noted African explorer?”
“Yes, he was. What of it?”
“And are you aware of his having visited the village of a noted slave King back in 1850, along the slave coast of Africa?”
“Well, yes, of course. I’ve read his memoirs.”
“Then you’re aware of his reputation for having lived a rather ‘eventful’ life?”
“Well yes, old Great Granddad was known for his adventuresomeness. He always said, “I’ll try anything twice!”.
“Well, it seems that, in this case, once was enough.”
“Huh? What?”
“You are aware, from having read his memoirs, that your Great Granddad lay with a native African woman?”
“Well, yes, He did describe that incredible encounter with a female of some…..some vintage or other”
“Well, then it shouldn’t come as a complete surprise to you that there was some issue from this encounter.”
“Go on.”
“Your Great Grandfather sired a son with this woman.”
“You don’t say. Really?”
“Yes, and that son sired 7 children who survived to adulthood. And each of them did the same and so on until modern times, today, 2022.”
“Well, I’ll be. Old Granddad founded a line…”
“Yes, so there have been seven generations of descendants from your “Old Granddad” as you call him. That’s a total of 823,543 descendants.”
“Wow!!!”
“Yes, that’s the number. And under the Peace and Reconciliation Act which was passed by the United Nations and which has been accepted as law here in the United States, you, as the most direct descendent of your Great Grandfather, are required to pay reparations of $250,000 to each of these offspring for their ‘generational trauma’ That’s a grand total of $205,885,750,000.”
“Uh…will you take a check?”
The Left absolutely insists that black dysfunction is 100% due to whitey ("generational trauma") and that's clearly wrong but I think that it's equally wrong to insist that it is 100% due to genetic factors. It's true that ADOS blacks have genetic handicaps when it comes to IQ but so do, for example, Caribbean blacks, Cape Verdean blacks, Nigerian blacks, etc. But the ADOS blacks do even worse than these groups because they have a double whammy of bad genes AND bad culture.Replies: @Chrisnonymous
You know, it’s an interesting question to what extent genes drive IQ when the contributing environment is created in part by genes. For example, giving black babies to middle-class blacks is not removing them from some nebulous “environment”, it is removing them from specific people whose negative influence is due in part to genes.
If you start thinking about the nature-nurture question that way, it might dispose you away from Steve’s 50/50, or least change what “nurture” means in that ratio.
And by the way, your “apples to apples” comparison is astonishingly easy to do. In a just a few minutes I looked up the murder rates for Baltimore, Maryland and Marion County, West Virginia. Marion County is the poorest county in West Virginia and has the lowest per capita income. The murder rate is 1/4 that of Baltimore.
But at least your admission that IQ is real and measurable is a sort of progress.Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Jack D, @Sir Launcelot Canning
That isn’t an accurate representation of what I said; you are just begging the question here. An accurate representation would be to regress for shortness being a factor in something else. For example:
“I have a theory that short Dutchmen are less successful in the Dutch marriage market than tall Dutchmen, because women tend to prefer taller men. In order to test this theory, I’m going to compare a select group of 5’6″ Dutchmen against another group of 6’2″ Dutchmen who agree with the first group on every other socioeconomic metric that is often claimed to be relevant to marriage success. This will allow me to isolate shortness as a factor.”
Not exactly. HBD is actually the assertion that the differential statistical distribution of (some) characteristics in populations is due to their racial makeup. HBD is not a value-neutral observation; it implies a causative factor. The existence (or nonexistence) of this factor is a hypothesis that can be tested for by regressing for racial differences while holding other factors constant.
I’m not pretending not to understand anything. I certainly understand what you think and believe about this subject. I just don’t agree with it.
How in the hell is that a regression for race alone? You are comparing a rural county with 20,000 people in it to an urban area of half a million. These people have very different lives, not just different races. It seems like question-begging is a particular talent of yours.
This one is not even wrong. Nothing I said here involves an admission that IQ is real and measurable, but neither have I denied that in the past. Again, you are not even engaging with anything I’ve actually said.
That's one way of looking at it. On the other hand, if every encounter with a criminal leaves you with the possibility of losing everything, your family your freedom etc. even if you are following protocol and you will spend the rest of your life in prison most of it in solitary confinement for your protection, you might see it differently.Replies: @MGB
so if they don’t want to do the job they were hired for, then get another job, like a firefighter, or does that profession carry too many risks too? there is a lot of media criticism of the police, mostly national news, the local TV stations bending over backwards to be praiseworthy, but a badge and a gun is a big responsibility, so they should expect some scrutiny if they happen to shoot someone holding a pack of gum, or get caught on tape having a steroid tantrum on some cuffed guy’s head. and some of it just goes with the territory. people with power inevitably abuse power, and many abusive types are naturally drawn to professions that offer those kinds of opportunities. some cop in my white bread hometown was kicked off the force when I was a teenager because he was pulling over young women driving while intoxicated, and soliciting blow jobs to let them off. nice guy. don’t remember what became of him afterwards, but hopefully some girl’s father or brother or boyfriend sorted him out.
my current general impression of the police is that they are mostly veteran preference hires, 30-40 somethings staring at their cell phone in their patrol car, periodically snapped out of their stupor if they get a domestic call, or when they have to meet their moving violation quota.
there are too many police, with too many guns, focusing on the wrong things.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
Great. You talked your way into the leftist caricature of HBD, which focuses on skin color. Of course, “skin color” can’t cause a change in traffic fatalities. It is a proxy for a host of genetic differences which are expressed across a range of behaviors. If you found some white population subgroup that was exactly like blacks in every way except skin color, of course you would find no contribution of skin color to any behavior because of the way you selected your data sets.
It's not a college debate, Steve. It's a religious war. The other side thinks that you're evil because you're a gentile white. Yes, it's that simple.
Your unwillingness to accept that reality creates a blind side in your thinking that wastes your considerable talent.Replies: @silviosilver, @Anonymous
But Steve yearns to hang out with that fake intellectual crowd. It’s as simple as that. He would sell us out a 1000 times to do lunch with those people.
But there should be a euphemism like, maybe, "The One Standard Deviation Taboo," that gives some plausible deniability to at least refer to the issue. As in, "I'm not necessarily saying the lack of Black Astrophysists at Stanford is due to The One Standard Deviation Taboo, but it sure is consistent." If someone challenges you by saying "what is this taboo of which you speak?" You can truthfully respond, "I can't say, because that would break the taboo."
Surely, they can't throw you off Twitter for refusing to say bad things (can they?).Replies: @Jack D, @G. Poulin, @Pat Kittle
I don’t think Steve believes that it is all genetic. He thinks it’s about 50/50. But even that is enough to get him banned from polite company. Polite company insists that we must agree to an all environmental explanation of differing outcomes. Polite company wants us to go along with the lie. Or else.
And by the way, your “apples to apples” comparison is astonishingly easy to do. In a just a few minutes I looked up the murder rates for Baltimore, Maryland and Marion County, West Virginia. Marion County is the poorest county in West Virginia and has the lowest per capita income. The murder rate is 1/4 that of Baltimore.
But at least your admission that IQ is real and measurable is a sort of progress.Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Jack D, @Sir Launcelot Canning
I don’t think he is pretending. He really doesn’t understand that if you match up the dumbest, most violent 15% of the white population on a one for one basis with the lowest 50% of the black population (which it is entirely possible to do), what is left in the case of whites is a remaining mountain of talent and functionality that brought us the modern world and what is left in the case of blacks is a small hill that tapers into nothingness long before you get to the levels where true achievement is possible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh5Pm1CnDxoReplies: @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
Oddly, the “generational trauma” is more latent until leftist permissiveness induces flare-ups. Interesting that indices of dysfunction increased among blacks after 1965, and that the black generation with the most opportunities and least exposure to said trauma has fared worse than their predecessors.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PtP-9Hzfe9s/T5eRcTfFFMI/AAAAAAAAAaI/02XRuV-KVZE/s1600/bell%2Bcurve%2Bn.jpgReplies: @Intelligent Dasein
My point, you bloviating nitwit, is to take the matching populations, regressed for race, and compare the two with respect to traffic fatalities! I am not concerned about the remainder. Is anybody going to engage with what I actually said?
You’re obviously not sporting enough to drive in Massachusetts!
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
I suggest we do the opposite. Let’s take the 50 million non-blacks who most closely match blacks one for one in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, AND take all of the blacks (together that’s 100 million people, a little over 1/4 of the US population) and give them say the SW quadrant of the US – we could rename it “Wakanda”. or perhaps “Greater Detroit”. And then leave the other 3 quarters (which we would call the USA) for the remaining non-blacks (260 million people, 0% black, about say 170 million whites). (Any resident of the USA could move to Wakanda, which would have open borders – surely all the white liberals would want to move there, right?) And we could then compare these two countries in terms of traffic fatalities and everything else. Which one would would be the better place to live?
Correlation does not equal causation, Mr. Sailer.
Now, you say you love data. Put your alleged expert pattern recognition skills to the test to bolster your case.
https://elephrame.com/textbook/BL
Mine the data. Clearly define terms and criteria. Establish how many BLM protests were violent and murderous, along with how and why each protest met that criteria, and how overall these protests are directly linked to the Ferguson Effect and racial reckoning.
But, I will admit that we should have more cameras to catch speeders. A clear menace on the road are white men in Ford 150s and Ram Trucks. More money in state and city coffers.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/06/25/trump-train-drivers-almost-ran-biden-bus-off-road-sued/5348859001/
Possible rejoinders to this nonsense might include:
1. Didn’t somebody try something like that before? You know, that mustache guy? I just can’t think of his name…
2. Explain how this is a sociologic experiment regressed for race.
3. Where do you think would have been the better place to live for the last 30 years? America as it is today and was (13% black), or Germany c. 1618-48 (0.0% black)?
4. Your dog-whistling to the Sailerites is getting a bit too on the nose. Any more of this, and even the Noticers might notice what you’re up to.
5. •It’s Right If You Say It Is, Daddy: Johann Ricke
Actually there was a guy with a mustache who kind of enjoyed moving various ethnic groups around his country without gassing them - for example he set up a "Jewish Autonomous Republic" somewhere out by the border with China about 5,000 miles east of Moscow.
My "modest proposal" is non-racist in that Wakanda would not be JUST for blacks. It would be even less black than Jackson, Miss. or Detroit. It would be more like Atlanta.
Of all personal characteristics that are harmful, smug certainty when it’s unwarranted is my least favorite. Unfortunately, that personality trait is often rewarded.
Hey, Steve. Don’t publish my long comment, okay?
IQ doesn’t even have to figure into the argument. It’s human nature. Blacks have been told for upwards of two years that the police can’t touch them. If whites were told on the evening news for that long that they were above the law, there would be consequences too, although perhaps not exactly the same. My personal preference would be for more stylish masked bandit Topkapi-style jewel heists, instead of this tacky business of shoving a bunch of brand-name stuff into a bag and driving off in broad daylight.
I can’t to speak to post-BLM driving, not big enough sample size in my neck of the woods, but early into the COVID op most pickup trucks and Dodge Charger types were weaving from lane to lane at about 90 mph, no fear of any cops pulling them over. IIRC in 2020 same number of traffic deaths as prior year on about half the miles travelled.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
This throws way too much into the pot.
There is a big difference between exogenous and endogenous factors.
If you’re talking about something reasonably exogenous–say urbanity, or living in the South, or “has a 10 mile commute on freeways and arterials” to get to work**–and you think that screen makes a difference then be all means go get comparables. (**Note simply having a job you commute miles to isn’t really exogenous to race.)
But most of your “social relevant ways” are precisely the result of mental traits like IQ, time-preference, conscientiousness, agreeableness, aggression, which are precisely what HBD–and the best evidence–suggests differ among various racial and ethnic groups. If you look at only say 100 IQ people who are HS graduates, hold a steady job and have never been in trouble with the law, whites and blacks will indeed be much more alike. But that’s because that selection is screening off a good chunk of HBD variance. (Such individuals are quite a bit more atypical for blacks than for whites.)
~~
But because the HBD differences are so big, even with the sort of population matching you are talking about, the gaps are still there.
For instance, a few years back I saw a breakdown of homicide by race/income. And blacks in the top quintile of US income had a homicide rate of 4 (std. per 100k per annum). Compared to whites in the top quintile <1. (And this is relatively a much, much more elite slice of the black population than the white). And whites even in the lowest quintile of US income had a rate of 5.
I.e. the forget the straight up matching you suggest, the most economically successful blacks (presumably smartest, hardest working and bolted down) match up in homicide to the dumbest, laziest and half-assed whites.
So the “socially relevant” matching you imply–which even if it yielded identical results between races would not negate HBD–has pretty much been done and the gaps are still huge.
One of the biggest lies of the 20th century is that racist Republicans got racist Democrats to vote for them through racism in 1968.
In reality the Democrats were so dominated by racists that when they ran a wishy washy moderate many dems supported the white supremacist Wallace. Independents and not racist Dems supported not racist Nixon (he despised Jews and elite WASPS more than blacks). It helped that Nixon was law and order - one dimensional thinkers like Perlstein immediately view this as racism, obviously because they want to speed, do drugs and hire prostitutes with impunity.Replies: @Alec Leamas (working from home), @Moses
Nixon was no fan of us Jews. Hard for a Jew like Perlstein to write an unbiased book about the man. Ethnocentrism.
I don’t see it. Is it gone or do you need me to do something else?
Like a lot of lefty intellectuals, he has a massive blind spot when it comes to race and retreats to nebulous and unmeasurable stuff like "generational trauma" that apparently is supposed to explain black underperformance, but apparently the generational trauma of lots of relatives and co-ethnics getting executed during WWII had the opposite effect for his own ethnic group. While we are on the subject of generational trauma, what is its effect on whites who were forced to flee their formerly thriving and tight knit urban neighborhoods for a disjointed existence in the suburbs as a result of encroaching black criminality?Replies: @Cutter, @Polistra, @Curmudgeon
Also noteworthy is the fact that this “generational trauma” suddenly manifested on or about Memorial Day in 2020. Is Perlstein saying that perhaps we shouldn’t engage in mass-media race-hate extravaganzas when a negro overdoses in public? If not, perhaps he should be. Because that mysterious “generational trauma” (which affects only blacks) seems to be on a hair trigger now and then.
https://kfgo.com/2022/09/21/ex-minneapolis-officer-sentenced-to-three-years-in-floyd-death/
This latest jewish holocaust swindle is that of the holocaust transference syndrome (generational trauma) where (only) jewish holocaust memories are transferred to their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and even to unrelated jewish persons.
This claim by two jewish psychiatrists is gaining traction among jewish holocaust promoters in order to keep the dream alive and to keep the reparations and shekels flowing. You see, these children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and other unrelated individuals are also seen as jewish holocaust survivors, worthy of reparations and special treatment.
It’s comment #59 on my screen. I’ll resubmit it with changes. If you don’t think it’s worth it then, spike it. Thanks.
I screen-capped it, is that a problem? Just in case I need to extort you for something. I’m always thinking ahead, you see.
I can’t see it. Can anybody else see a long Three Cranes comment? If you can, well … uh … don’t read it!
That progressive racer can't be a good driver.
At best he is slightly below mediocre.
On top, there is an effect, that can be well observed on our Autobahnen.
Those egoistical wannabe Schuhmachers always have behind them a collapse of the average speed trailing, cause they force others to use their breaks unnecessary. So the progressive racer is likely such an enormous burden - it is their climate bullshit, not mine - on the climate, his friends have to execute him. Better yesterday than tomorrow.
Since the distance between cars for security reasons has to increase with rising speed another effect happens, on a given road lengths fit less cars the higher the travel speed is.
120 comments now, I bet my ass off not one made those fine points.Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
And with that, Ben Zirconstein woke up.“It had all been a dream”, he said to himself with relief. “I haven’t eaten a fellow human being or even a human-like creature. I am not a cannibal. Thank goodness.”The doorbell rang.With featherlight feet he hastened to answer it. “Yes?”“Are you Benjamin Zirconstein IV?”“Yes, why?”“And was your Great Grandfather the noted African explorer?”“Yes, he was. What of it?”“And are you aware of his having visited the village of a noted slave King back in 1850, along the slave coast of Africa?”“Well, yes, of course. I’ve read his memoirs.”“Then you’re aware of his reputation for having lived a rather ‘eventful’ life?”“Well yes, old Great Granddad was known for his adventuresomeness. He always said, “I’ll try anything twice!”.“Well, it seems that, in this case, once was enough.”“Huh? What?”“You are aware, from having read his memoirs, that your Great Granddad lay with a native African woman?”“Well, yes, He did describe that incredible encounter with a female of some…..some vintage or other”“Well, then it shouldn’t come as a complete surprise to you that there was some issue from this encounter.”“Go on.”“Your Great Grandfather sired a son by this woman.”“You don’t say. Really?”“Yes, and that son sired 7 children who survived to adulthood. And each of them did the same and so on until modern times, today, 2022.”“Well, I’ll be. Old Granddad founded a line…”“Yes, so there have been seven generations of descendants from your “Old Granddad” as you call him. That’s a total of 823,543 descendants.”“Wow!!!”“Yes, that’s the number. And under the Peace and Reconciliation Act which was passed by the United Nations and which has been accepted as law here in the United States, you, as the most direct descendent of your Great Grandfather, are required to pay reparations of $250,000 to each of these offspring for their ‘generational trauma’ That’s a grand total of $205,885,750,000.”“Uh…will you take a check?”
“Generational trauma.” What a meaningless catch-all.
LOL. Who knew?
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
Those methods would not possibly adequately control for other factors and isolate such a causal relationship. Omitted variable bias alone would be monumental.
This a good explanation of the statistical problem of sequential variable decomposition. If in Intelligent Dasein’s terms, you “control” for variables that are also correlated with the outcome of interest, you are mechanically “explaining” away the relevant variation.
Said practically, if you put things like criminal history, education level and IQ in your equation first and then add race, you will find a much smaller estimated causal effect of race than if you put these variables in after race. But the world isn’t different in these two cases, just your decision about how to model it. So, the decision to “control” for these factors assumes this structure, it doesn’t prove it.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
Steve did not say in the twitter exchange that blacks die at a higher rate in traffic accidents because they are black. He makes a reasonable point that black traffic fatalities increased more than other races because traffic enforcement actions dropped in majority black cities after Floyd’s overdose.
“Generational trauma” was the mitigation theory advanced in a death penalty case that’s now making its way through the federal courts on habeas, the original conviction going back to ’96. Homeboy and his Mom lived in a duplex in Riverside, him upstairs, her down. She had a penchant for annoying the neighbors with her loud music. On about the 10th noise complaint, the cops decided to arrest her. Homeboy instructed the officers to take their hands off Mom, and was told to go inside his apartment. He did, but then came out with a gun and killed one of the officers.
The scandal is that it took the superior court 27 months to dispose of this case. Since then, the appellate courts have spent 221 months noodling around with it with no resolution in sight. If our courts were anything but a venue for lawyers to play footsie with each other, this man would have been put in front of a firing squad a dozen years ago if not earlier than that.
I think the bigger and more traumatic comparison for blacks would not be Jews (Jews are whites who have really special characteristics around learning, family and maintaining their secular and religious traditions): they are nothing like blacks.
(Frankly: for European Americans to thrive we will need to be more like the Jewish people, at least in our attitudes and willingness to engage in self defense and redevelop a special mission for ourselves).
I think for blacks what has to be galling is how relatively easy many very poor immigrants from the humblest countries, without any English and not much in the way of support from the broader culture have made successes of themselves within a generation or two: Mexicans (at least here in Texas), Vietnamese, Cubans, Brazilians. Etc.
These people literally arrive with nothing and within a generation or two develop a strong middle class, educate their children, etc.
Blacks have been free since 1865, with trillions showered on them and nothing to show for it.
Rick Perlstein sounds like a complete asshole. Why am I not surprised?
You don’t argue at Twitter. It makes no sense. Margaritas ante porcos. Just state your case & go.
He was with you til the end then he had to worry about job security. So he trots out the nonsensical “generational curses”.
There is a big difference between exogenous and endogenous factors.
If you're talking about something reasonably exogenous--say urbanity, or living in the South, or "has a 10 mile commute on freeways and arterials" to get to work**--and you think that screen makes a difference then be all means go get comparables. (**Note simply having a job you commute miles to isn't really exogenous to race.)
But most of your "social relevant ways" are precisely the result of mental traits like IQ, time-preference, conscientiousness, agreeableness, aggression, which are precisely what HBD--and the best evidence--suggests differ among various racial and ethnic groups. If you look at only say 100 IQ people who are HS graduates, hold a steady job and have never been in trouble with the law, whites and blacks will indeed be much more alike. But that's because that selection is screening off a good chunk of HBD variance. (Such individuals are quite a bit more atypical for blacks than for whites.)
~~
But because the HBD differences are so big, even with the sort of population matching you are talking about, the gaps are still there.
For instance, a few years back I saw a breakdown of homicide by race/income. And blacks in the top quintile of US income had a homicide rate of 4 (std. per 100k per annum). Compared to whites in the top quintile <1. (And this is relatively a much, much more elite slice of the black population than the white). And whites even in the lowest quintile of US income had a rate of 5.
I.e. the forget the straight up matching you suggest, the most economically successful blacks (presumably smartest, hardest working and bolted down) match up in homicide to the dumbest, laziest and half-assed whites.
So the "socially relevant" matching you imply--which even if it yielded identical results between races would not negate HBD--has pretty much been done and the gaps are still huge.Replies: @Twinkie, @Brutusale, @Jack D
Along with all tests. Along with all standards.
Along with civilization itself, if necessary.
Hint: it seems to be necessary.
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
Wakanda!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh5Pm1CnDxoReplies: @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
You use self-descriptions a lot, don’t you?
Casting Pearls before Swine.
What is that supposed to mean?
Perlstein throws that out in his argument but assumes we all know what it is. Hardly.
This is a rhetorical-propaganda gimmick in which some invented phrase or word is thrown in as bait to see if you will bite on it. If you do, you lose.
Who is supposed to have this "trauma"? Is it a racial thing? A family thing? An entho-religious thing? (as in Jews, Mormons, Jehovahs Witness, Quaker...?). Is it based on nationality? (Germans are permanently evil, Japanese not so much...)
How can one identify or recognize ones own "generational trauma"?
This can of course simply mean ones own family history and dynamics. Alcoholism or drug addictions. Destructive infidelity. Criminal behavior. Mental instability. Whatever negative family history you may have, if it affected your own life or the lives of your siblings.
But somehow, I think Perlstein is suggesting far narrower and more targeted groups and meanings.
Some groups get a pass, one suspects. Due to this mysterious "get out of self responsibility" notion. Where your own actions are not your choices, but due to inherited factors beyond your control.
A nice Get Out of Jail card to play, if you can find a sucker to take it.Replies: @Emblematic, @duncsbaby
Plenty of blacks and liberal whites believe or say they believe that blacks suffer from generational trauma from slavery. They may not use the term, but they still believe it. That generational trauma thing ain’t going away and surprisingly grows larger w/each passing year.
OTOH, many people in Africa and in Haiti believe that someone can cast an evil spell on you and that this will negatively influence the outcome of your life (unless perhaps you pay a witch doctor to undo the spell). AFAIK, this belief in bad juju thing ain’t going away and surprisingly grows larger w/each passing year.
From this I conclude that the "generational trauma thing" has more in common with voodoo than it does with science.
Speaking of negros overdosing in public. Minnesota just sentenced another cop to jail for doing his job.
https://kfgo.com/2022/09/21/ex-minneapolis-officer-sentenced-to-three-years-in-floyd-death/
I’ve read three of the Perlstein books, liberally-slanted though they are I quite enjoyed them. But after seeing from your tete a tete that he really is a chinless, black-excusing, and worst of all innumerate wannabe-bully, I shall read no more of his output.
Not to nitpick unnecessarily, but enforcement declined dramatically in just about every corner of the USA. Only “certain people” decided that this was a golden opportunity to break the law even more than usual. And, to put it mildly, millions of “goodwhites” gave them ample cover for doing so. And still do.
The really sad part is that goodwhites and blacks alike think this is doing black people a favor. In the long run, of course, it’s doing the opposite.
A good driver assumes there are idiots on the road and drives regressive because of those.
That progressive racer can’t be a good driver.
At best he is slightly below mediocre.
On top, there is an effect, that can be well observed on our Autobahnen.
Those egoistical wannabe Schuhmachers always have behind them a collapse of the average speed trailing, cause they force others to use their breaks unnecessary. So the progressive racer is likely such an enormous burden – it is their climate bullshit, not mine – on the climate, his friends have to execute him. Better yesterday than tomorrow.
Since the distance between cars for security reasons has to increase with rising speed another effect happens, on a given road lengths fit less cars the higher the travel speed is.
120 comments now, I bet my ass off not one made those fine points.
Now you all can see why this SAT thing had to go!
Along with all tests. Along with all standards.
Along with civilization itself, if necessary.
Hint: it seems to be necessary.
That progressive racer can't be a good driver.
At best he is slightly below mediocre.
On top, there is an effect, that can be well observed on our Autobahnen.
Those egoistical wannabe Schuhmachers always have behind them a collapse of the average speed trailing, cause they force others to use their breaks unnecessary. So the progressive racer is likely such an enormous burden - it is their climate bullshit, not mine - on the climate, his friends have to execute him. Better yesterday than tomorrow.
Since the distance between cars for security reasons has to increase with rising speed another effect happens, on a given road lengths fit less cars the higher the travel speed is.
120 comments now, I bet my ass off not one made those fine points.Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
No, the capacity stays the same. Think about it – if you use the 2-second rule, then that lane carries a vehicle every 2 sec or 30 vehicles per minute. If you all speed up, those 2 seconds are more distance, which is the point, of course, for a chance to brake without a collision (except from the dumbass behind you …)
What, you think families, generations, attitudes and traditions and habits and things handed down, family troubles, "generational trauma" mean nothing at all?
Let me set you straight.
If your father is a pimp and your mother is a whore, you're probably going to grow up to be a pimp or a whore.
If your father is an engineer and your mother is a physics teacher, you're probably going to end up a STEM something or other.
If your father leaves you a little cash, your old age might end up being a little easier than if he doesn't.
Maybe generational trauma isn't the end all be all. But it shore ain't nothin. Sorry.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack D
Everything you’ve said is correct, but poor whites are still more law-abiding and less dangerous than poor blacks – indeed poor blacks have become more dangerous and less law-abiding since the Glorious Revolutions of the 1960s i.e. full “Civil Rights” as the documentaries say.
I think, though, it’s possible that the seeming taboo on black leaders calling out poor behaviour by other black people “may” have roots in slavery.
I know they called it out pre-50s, but then bad black behaviour attracted sanctions from white people, which didn’t always discriminate and were sometimes implemented “with extreme prejudice”, so it was in their interests to do so.
Hitler took 1/4 of Germany and set it aside for blacks and equally matched whites? I must have skipped that chapter of the history book.
Actually there was a guy with a mustache who kind of enjoyed moving various ethnic groups around his country without gassing them – for example he set up a “Jewish Autonomous Republic” somewhere out by the border with China about 5,000 miles east of Moscow.
My “modest proposal” is non-racist in that Wakanda would not be JUST for blacks. It would be even less black than Jackson, Miss. or Detroit. It would be more like Atlanta.
What, you think families, generations, attitudes and traditions and habits and things handed down, family troubles, "generational trauma" mean nothing at all?
Let me set you straight.
If your father is a pimp and your mother is a whore, you're probably going to grow up to be a pimp or a whore.
If your father is an engineer and your mother is a physics teacher, you're probably going to end up a STEM something or other.
If your father leaves you a little cash, your old age might end up being a little easier than if he doesn't.
Maybe generational trauma isn't the end all be all. But it shore ain't nothin. Sorry.Replies: @YetAnotherAnon, @Jack D
Indians, because of their caste traditions, often go that way – if your ask an Indian doctor what his father did, chances are Dad was a doctor too.
However, when it comes to East Asians, all bets are off. If you ask an Asian American engineer what his father did, chances are he worked in a restaurant or a laundry.
Jews have worked their way up the ladder, but in the first off the boat generations (I’m one) it was very typical for the parents of successful scientists or professionals to be uneducated. Dick Feynman’s dad Melville (Moshe?) came from Minsk as a small child and was a (not very successful) small businessman, not a scientist. My father was a chicken farmer and not only was he not learned in the law, he was completely illiterate in the Roman alphabet. He was more illiterate than the least educated black person in America who can at least read a Colt-45 label (my father once mistook furniture polish for cooking oil). There were no English books in my house (unless I took them out of the library). Actually no Yiddish books either – neither of my parents were book readers, although they would read the Yiddish newspaper. And talk about generational trauma – 90% of the people he grew up with were murdered and he came within a hair himself. But somehow this did not affect my SAT scores. Magic I guess.
Don’t know how old you are but even kids from homes with books were avid library book readers. I never lived somewhere were books and libraries were hard to find. In fact, I used to order them through the mail. This reference to ‘books in the house’ is made a lot and seemingly imbued with great meaning. At best it suggests an parental monkey see monkey do effect where reading is concerned.
Well, everyone else’s comments are so serious so I decided to submit this anyway. My answer to Rick Perlstein:
Ben Zirconstein awoke to find himself transported in time, back to 1850 Africa to be precise. After a long, perilous journey, he had stumbled into a city on a river which served as the local gathering and distribution point for slave trading. Heading up the operation was the big King.
The King was amicably disposed towards Europeans with whom he carried on a lively slave trade. Assuming Ben had come to buy slaves, the King extended every hospitality to him. Would he like to rest in a hut? Recover from his long journey? Yes, of course. And then, tonight, a feast.
And so, after a restful sleep, Ben was awakened in anticipation of the fine feast that was to be laid out. Tonight’s entree? Monkey meat!
Now Ben, being in reality a 21st century American and not a seasoned African explorer, had never tasted monkey meat, but, he reasoned with himself, hadn’t he better try it if for no other reason than to strike one item off of his bucket list? On the other hand, his conscience troubled him, isn’t a monkey rather close to us on the phylogenetic scale and therefore somewhat taboo? Well, you only live once and “I’ll try anything twice!”, he said and laughed to himself at his little joke.
And so he ate, and it was delicious. A gourd was passed around from which he drank deeply. He got very tipsy. “Woah!, that’s some strong stuff”.
After dinner there was dancing and the tribe happily cavorted until it was time for bed. The King slung his arm around Ben’s shoulders and told him he was liken unto a son to him and how inasmuch as he was a grand King, he could not let it be said that he had allowed a treasured guest to go to bed lonely and unaccompanied. A consort would be provided for him and would that be okay? Surely Ben must need the company of a female after so many days on the trail?
Yes, yes, fine. A female companion. Grand. And so the King instructed an aide to show Ben to his sleeping quarters. Once inside, his guide made sure Ben was comfortable, showed him where his bed was and told him that his consort would join him in short order. Then he left. Ben lay down on the bed, hands laced together behind his head and gazed around him. The only light was from the moon, shining through a hole high in the thatched ceiling. As his eyes adjusted to the darkness he found that he could just make things out.
Directly, Ben heard a rustle and the soft swish of fabric on straw. A figure approached. She found the bed and lay down beside him. She was soft, warm to the touch and wore a light night gown made out of fine threads. She seemed to have the right amount of padding in the right places and things progressed swimmingly. There could be no doubt that his consort was eager and capable—and strong. As she moved, the moon slanted across her face and Ben could just make out her features, which were a bit odd. He was surprised to see that her face was decidedly, well, “primitive” is the only word for it. There! By the light of the moon he could see that her brow ridge was definitely more prominent than any woman’s he had ever been to bed with. As well, her lower jaw and teeth projected further from her face than any woman he had known. It was with a bit of a shock that he said to himself, “This woman is somewhat like an homo Erectus”. Aghast, he fumbled for his flashlight with which he illuminated her face, and let out a yell.
What the hell? The “woman” he had been playing with was the most primitive human he had ever beheld. What he had taken for a sheer negligee was, in fact, a fine coat of fur. And yet….
And yet they had been cavorting together rather well, he noted. So what? So what if she was a bit primitive? She was still a human being, right? And after all, weren’t we humans held back in our evolutionary quest by sexual hangups? Didn’t Marcuse, Wilhelm Reich, Freud, Fromm and Adorno, Friedan, Steinem and Jong place the roots of the fascist personality in sexual exclusivity? Isn’t this same sexual exclusivity what created the patriarchy and private property and treating women as domestic servants and sex slaves? Besides, what if she really was a Homo Erectus? What a discovery! He would be famous. And just think what he could tell the other faculty of the Anthropology Department. Not only had he discovered her, but he had schtupped her! That would be good for a round of faculty lounge jokes.
So, to consummate the act with this she-creature was to strike a blow against the Protestant patriarchy and for the evolution of the human Spirit. “Besides”, he said aloud, “I’ll try anything twice!” And with that, he plunged on.
The next morning found our weary hero relaxed and happy. Whatever they had drunk the night before had made him both erotically potent and suffused him with a warm afterglow of supreme contentment. His nighttime companion was gone. He went out to see what the day would bring.
“And did you sleep well?”, enquired the King.
“Yes, yes, very well, thank you.”
“And did you find your companion, “monkey woman”, acceptable? Did she fulfill your needs?
“I’ll say! She sure shinnied up and down my pole like a “monkey”, as you call her. No complaints there, King.”
“Well then, that’s good. Sit down to breakfast and afterwards, we can discuss your buying slaves. But first food.” And with that he clapped his hands together three times and yelled, “Bring more monkey meat for our guest!”
“Hey, wait King. Did you say, ‘monkey meat’?”
“Well, yes. Of course.”
“The same “monkey” as in the “monkey woman” I slept with last night?”
“Why yes, one and the same. We eat them. We breed and raise them like livestock, like you do your cattle or sheep.”
Horror shuddered from Ben’s head to tailbone. He had eaten human flesh. He was about to be sick and actually gagged.
“What’s the matter?”, asked the King. “You look unwell.”
“I think I’ll skip breakfast. Maybe just a cup of weak tea. I overindulged last night.”
And with that, Ben Zirconstein woke up.
“It had all been a dream”, he said to himself with relief. “I haven’t eaten a fellow human being or even a human-like creature. I am not a cannibal. Thank goodness.”
The doorbell rang.
With featherlight feet he hastened to answer it. “Yes?”
“Are you Benjamin Zirconstein IV?”
“Yes, why?”
“And was your Great Grandfather the noted African explorer?”
“Yes, he was. What of it?”
“And are you aware of his having visited the village of a noted slave King back in 1850, along the slave coast of Africa?”
“Well, yes, of course. I’ve read his memoirs.”
“Then you’re aware of his reputation for having lived a rather ‘eventful’ life?”
“Well yes, old Great Granddad was known for his adventuresomeness. He always said, “I’ll try anything twice!”.
“Well, it seems that, in this case, once was enough.”
“Huh? What?”
“You are aware, from having read his memoirs, that your Great Granddad lay with a native African woman?”
“Well, yes, He did describe that incredible encounter with a female of some…..some vintage or other”
“Well, then it shouldn’t come as a complete surprise to you that there was some issue from this encounter.”
“Go on.”
“Your Great Grandfather sired a son by this woman.”
“You don’t say. Really?”
“Yes, and that son sired 7 children who survived to adulthood. And each of them did the same and so on until modern times, today, 2022.”
“Well, I’ll be. Old Granddad founded a line…”
“Yes, so there have been seven generations of descendants from your “Old Granddad” as you call him. That’s a total of 823,543 descendants.”
“Wow!!!”
“Yes, that’s the number. And under the Peace and Reconciliation Act which was passed by the United Nations and which has been accepted as law here in the United States, you, as the most direct descendent of your Great Grandfather, are required to pay reparations of $250,000 to each of these offspring for their ‘generational trauma’ That’s a grand total of $205,885,750,000.”
“Uh…will you take a check?”
Demonstrate to him that by “statistical noise” he just means “statistics.”
There is a way that you could actually settle this question definitively, but it would involve doing some real social science of the sort that Steve apparently doesn't have the appetite for.
You can't just compare the black and white populations and make a chart. The white population differs from the black population in many, many socially relevant ways. If you want to find out if blackness alone is a principal cause in traffic fatalities, you have to run a regression that specifically isolates blackness as a factor.
In order to do this, you have to identify a black-analogue white population. There are about 50 million blacks in America and about 191 million non-hispanic whites---almost four times as many. The proper way to compare blacks and whites per se would be to be to identify whatever subset of the white population that contains the 50 million individuals who most closely match, on a one-to-one basis, all 50 million blacks in terms of income, education level, family dynamics, incarceration rate, IQ, and any other factor you want to isolate out of consideration. Then compare these two groups in terms of traffic fatalities.
Black-analogue white population regressions would definitively settle the Nature/Nurture debate once and for all, but I don't think anybody really wants an answer to that question. Once we identified the main core of such a group, it would be easy to find slightly different groups with which to do apples-to-apples comparisons that isolate for other things like IQ and criminal behavior.
Once we did that, what are you willing to bet that all the "HBD" signals for things like IQ and criminality would disappear? What do you think would reappear in their place?Replies: @Jenner Ickham Errican, @Anon, @Alfa158, @Verymuchalive, @Brás Cubas, @Chrisnonymous, @Jack D, @AnotherDad, @Recently Based, @Sam Hildebrand, @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
All of the factors are irrelevant in a year-to-year comparison. Perhaps your own smoking activity induces psychological projection.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh5Pm1CnDxoReplies: @Twinkie, @Eric Novak
No one wants to engage with mathematical ignorance.
There is a big difference between exogenous and endogenous factors.
If you're talking about something reasonably exogenous--say urbanity, or living in the South, or "has a 10 mile commute on freeways and arterials" to get to work**--and you think that screen makes a difference then be all means go get comparables. (**Note simply having a job you commute miles to isn't really exogenous to race.)
But most of your "social relevant ways" are precisely the result of mental traits like IQ, time-preference, conscientiousness, agreeableness, aggression, which are precisely what HBD--and the best evidence--suggests differ among various racial and ethnic groups. If you look at only say 100 IQ people who are HS graduates, hold a steady job and have never been in trouble with the law, whites and blacks will indeed be much more alike. But that's because that selection is screening off a good chunk of HBD variance. (Such individuals are quite a bit more atypical for blacks than for whites.)
~~
But because the HBD differences are so big, even with the sort of population matching you are talking about, the gaps are still there.
For instance, a few years back I saw a breakdown of homicide by race/income. And blacks in the top quintile of US income had a homicide rate of 4 (std. per 100k per annum). Compared to whites in the top quintile <1. (And this is relatively a much, much more elite slice of the black population than the white). And whites even in the lowest quintile of US income had a rate of 5.
I.e. the forget the straight up matching you suggest, the most economically successful blacks (presumably smartest, hardest working and bolted down) match up in homicide to the dumbest, laziest and half-assed whites.
So the "socially relevant" matching you imply--which even if it yielded identical results between races would not negate HBD--has pretty much been done and the gaps are still huge.Replies: @Twinkie, @Brutusale, @Jack D
How many of the blacks in that top quintile are pro athletes or entertainers? Definitely not selected for the same traits that make up the top quintile of whites.
1. As you mentioned, high-earning blacks consist of a lot of athletes, entertainers, rappers, producers, and hustlers of diverse description who are intimately involved with the demimonde. Lots of opportunity to kill or be killed in those settings.
2. Blacks are the beneficiaries of massive amounts of official and unofficial Affirmative Action preference, which elevates poor-quality individuals to income levels far above their abilities. It's not unusual for some dumb black to land a six-figure managerial position, which would place him in the top quintile but does not imply that he is a civilized and even-tempered person. The systemic black preference we have in this society makes comparisons modulo income levels into an absurd farce.
This is correct. I am also working this point into a longer reply that I mean to publish later. There are a couple of reasons why matching blacks to whites based on income alone will not always give you an apples-to-apples comparison.
1. As you mentioned, high-earning blacks consist of a lot of athletes, entertainers, rappers, producers, and hustlers of diverse description who are intimately involved with the demimonde. Lots of opportunity to kill or be killed in those settings.
2. Blacks are the beneficiaries of massive amounts of official and unofficial Affirmative Action preference, which elevates poor-quality individuals to income levels far above their abilities. It’s not unusual for some dumb black to land a six-figure managerial position, which would place him in the top quintile but does not imply that he is a civilized and even-tempered person. The systemic black preference we have in this society makes comparisons modulo income levels into an absurd farce.
I started driving over 50 years ago, and drivers commonly did this back then. I haven’t noticed that it’s any more prevalent now.
OK, granted, that’s where I started driving. . .
Yes, people believe in a lot of nonsense.
Astrology charts in nearly every popular newspaper or many magazines.
So what?
There is a big difference between exogenous and endogenous factors.
If you're talking about something reasonably exogenous--say urbanity, or living in the South, or "has a 10 mile commute on freeways and arterials" to get to work**--and you think that screen makes a difference then be all means go get comparables. (**Note simply having a job you commute miles to isn't really exogenous to race.)
But most of your "social relevant ways" are precisely the result of mental traits like IQ, time-preference, conscientiousness, agreeableness, aggression, which are precisely what HBD--and the best evidence--suggests differ among various racial and ethnic groups. If you look at only say 100 IQ people who are HS graduates, hold a steady job and have never been in trouble with the law, whites and blacks will indeed be much more alike. But that's because that selection is screening off a good chunk of HBD variance. (Such individuals are quite a bit more atypical for blacks than for whites.)
~~
But because the HBD differences are so big, even with the sort of population matching you are talking about, the gaps are still there.
For instance, a few years back I saw a breakdown of homicide by race/income. And blacks in the top quintile of US income had a homicide rate of 4 (std. per 100k per annum). Compared to whites in the top quintile <1. (And this is relatively a much, much more elite slice of the black population than the white). And whites even in the lowest quintile of US income had a rate of 5.
I.e. the forget the straight up matching you suggest, the most economically successful blacks (presumably smartest, hardest working and bolted down) match up in homicide to the dumbest, laziest and half-assed whites.
So the "socially relevant" matching you imply--which even if it yielded identical results between races would not negate HBD--has pretty much been done and the gaps are still huge.Replies: @Twinkie, @Brutusale, @Jack D
ID’s filter is an idiotic one that no scientist or statistician would use. Basically he is saying that if you select to make all factors you can think of equal between two groups (one a full cross section of group A and the other a selected non-representative inferior slice of group B), then the outcomes should also be equal and from this you can conclude that black people and white people are really the same.
But even with that thumb on the scale, it’s STILL not true because of “regression to the mean”. Regression to the mean means that the offspring of outliers are going to end up somewhere between their parents and the group average for their group. Regression toward the mean is why the children of super genius people are often smart but are not themselves super geniuses. For example Einstein’s son (and that of his very intelligent 1st wife Mileva Marić, also a physicist and mathematician), Hans Albert, was a professor of hydraulic engineering at Berkeley. He was well respected in his field and much smarter than the average person, but he was not an earth shaking genius like his dad.
So for example if you compared the children of all Latinos with a selected matched group of 5’6″ tall Dutchmen, the Dutch offspring are STILL going to be taller than the Latino kids due to regression toward the mean.
If you look at Twinkie’s chart, the mean white SAT score for whites in the LOWEST income (under $20,000) group are about even with blacks in the HIGHEST (over $200,000) group. The sons and daughters of black doctors and lawyers score about the same on the SAT as the sons and daughters of white welfare recipients. This seems shocking unless you understand regression toward the mean.
Due to regression toward the mean, the poor white kids, who are the children of below average IQ parents (since income is correlated with IQ), have an IQ that is somewhere between their parents (say 85) and the white average of 100 – they come out to average say 92. Meanwhile the rich black kids, who are the children of ABOVE average IQ black parents , have an IQ that is somewhere between their parents (say 100) and the black average of 85 – they also come out to average 92.
If we were talking about cows and milk production or something like that, Leftists would have no problem understanding this but as soon as you introduce race, their brains freeze.
Jews privately agree that they are the world’s smartest race. I.Q. tests prove that they are. Jews gloat about this with each other. But when you start discussing the low I.Q. scores of blacks — which Jews also secretly acknowledge — Jews get testy and declare that “race is just a social construct.” Jews openly approve of Jewish racism in Palestine and its deadly consequences. Yet they get angry when a Gentile points that out. You simply cannot find a more hypocritical, tribal, destructive, cunning, scheming and manipulative race of people than Jews.
(Frankly: for European Americans to thrive we will need to be more like the Jewish people, at least in our attitudes and willingness to engage in self defense and redevelop a special mission for ourselves).
I think for blacks what has to be galling is how relatively easy many very poor immigrants from the humblest countries, without any English and not much in the way of support from the broader culture have made successes of themselves within a generation or two: Mexicans (at least here in Texas), Vietnamese, Cubans, Brazilians. Etc.
These people literally arrive with nothing and within a generation or two develop a strong middle class, educate their children, etc.
Blacks have been free since 1865, with trillions showered on them and nothing to show for it.Replies: @Chebyshev
I agree.
Those immigrant groups have been successful. Texicans have done pretty well for themselves, and, from what Ron says, in California, Mexican Americans get along with European Americans and Asian Americans just fine.
That IS surprising because most phenomena fade with time. Let’s say a field has been flooded with salt water. The next year’s crop would be most affected, and then the following crop would be less affected and so on until the damage fades away. But somehow, black trauma “grows larger w/each passing year” contrary to the laws of physics.
OTOH, many people in Africa and in Haiti believe that someone can cast an evil spell on you and that this will negatively influence the outcome of your life (unless perhaps you pay a witch doctor to undo the spell). AFAIK, this belief in bad juju thing ain’t going away and surprisingly grows larger w/each passing year.
From this I conclude that the “generational trauma thing” has more in common with voodoo than it does with science.
Like a lot of lefty intellectuals, he has a massive blind spot when it comes to race and retreats to nebulous and unmeasurable stuff like "generational trauma" that apparently is supposed to explain black underperformance, but apparently the generational trauma of lots of relatives and co-ethnics getting executed during WWII had the opposite effect for his own ethnic group. While we are on the subject of generational trauma, what is its effect on whites who were forced to flee their formerly thriving and tight knit urban neighborhoods for a disjointed existence in the suburbs as a result of encroaching black criminality?Replies: @Cutter, @Polistra, @Curmudgeon
He’s not “left”, and it’s not a blind spot. It’s tikkun olam. It makes their world better by destroying ours. I won’t even touch “intellectual”.
Insignificantly few: there are <20,000 pro athletes in the US, the majority of whom are not black nor are making much money at all. The number of celebrities is similar.
However, after a half century of trying there has been no progress. After literally trillions of dollars in programs, funding and sacrificed urban real estate, there has been no progress. After the criminal victimization and general upheaval of hundreds of thousands of white lives, there has been almost no progress.
I am willing to let the left keep trying in their own spaces, but not at the expense of the few remaining shreds of western civilization. When they figure out a way to overcome "generational trauma" and turn Detroit into Boise without changing the demographics, we can talk. Until then, bring back free association.Replies: @Hunsdon
Preach.
Aside from running red lights, nowadays people don’t use turn signals.
Yes, driving defensively is necessary for safety.
Jews’ insatiable need to feel “comfortable” justifies in Perlstein’s mind the maintenance-at-all-costs of blacks as proxy warriors against the majority and he cares not a fig if more black lives are lost in so doing.
From a blog I follow about the LSU shooting:
But the racial reckoning continues because the marginal cost that Jews are paying is still cheap compared to the benefit in terms of creating the discordant society that Jews feel most comfortable living in. Jews by and large stay away from the danger of black unpredictability or have communities insulated from it (or in places like NYC, have their own police force).
For once, Perlsetain’s right. Speed cameras are evil, a money and power grab. Not EVERYTHING progressives hates is good. And I couldn’t care less about the Black traffic fatality rate.
Yes, it’s hard for me to believe Mexicans have only a 90 average IQ. Most of them here in Arizona seem on par with the average White, but maybe it’s just us, LOL.
It’s worse…generational trauma has been picked up by the holocaust scam crowd.
This latest jewish holocaust swindle is that of the holocaust transference syndrome (generational trauma) where (only) jewish holocaust memories are transferred to their children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and even to unrelated jewish persons.
This claim by two jewish psychiatrists is gaining traction among jewish holocaust promoters in order to keep the dream alive and to keep the reparations and shekels flowing. You see, these children, grandchildren, great grandchildren and other unrelated individuals are also seen as jewish holocaust survivors, worthy of reparations and special treatment.
I do not know about France at all. Are they using cars or they do their speeding on bicyclettes?
But for some Canadian city, the speed cameras were proven (in a decade long court battle) to be set up so that theyd spuriously issue tickets to non existing speeding. Like, a certain reflection from the road siderail under a correct angle , when a car passed by, made one good financial effect on the local PD.
So, iSteve iCameras will not be the panacea for traffic violations in Northamerica. It will just increase GDP by corruption.
Think you again, on a 1 mile part of a road do fit less cars at higher speed because they have to increase the distance between each other.
For example, Hitmark, let's say everyone uses the 2-second rule for spacing and they are going about 75 mph because they are good drivers. Stand at a mile marker or signpost: You will see a car go by every 2 seconds. You will see 30 cars go by each minute.
Now, everyone slows to 60 mph for a stretch, worried about a cop on the side of the road, but still keeps the 2 second rule as he should. It'll still be one car every 2 sec and 30 cars/minute.
You're thinking how many cars fit in a mile of traffic flow, but that doesn't matter - the whole block of them is moving faster. What matters is how many cars get through in a given time, right?
.
BTW, I agree completely with the gist of your comment, that those good drivers who leave the right space get screwed as other drivers continually fill in those spaces.
I've been on the autobahn - it only seems to work right when there are 3 lanes each side: The trucks doing 100 kph on the right, guys like me driving rented Subarus in the middle till I pass a group of trucks and move right, and then the fast movers on the left (who still better come right when they aren't passing at the moment.)Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Hitmarck, @Hitmarck
And of course Perlmutter is automatically right by belonging to the high IQ race. No amount of graphs can change that. Any akarlin can make graphs, like that, but he be still an orc compared to the true Master.
HBD cannot fail.
Black today do indeed have intergenerational trauma but mostly from post 1965 policies and subsequent destruction of black communities. Given the r-selected life cycle of blacks, they are essentially three generations out from that already. The relative safety and cohesiveness of black communities prior to 1965 disprove the claim that slavery’s effects are causing the problems we see today.
Sitting a few yards away from Maggie Thatcher remains the undisputed highlight of his life.
OK, we’re talking past each other because the language barrier. I assume you meant that the road can handle less traffic at higher speeds with a given spacing. That’s not the case.
For example, Hitmark, let’s say everyone uses the 2-second rule for spacing and they are going about 75 mph because they are good drivers. Stand at a mile marker or signpost: You will see a car go by every 2 seconds. You will see 30 cars go by each minute.
Now, everyone slows to 60 mph for a stretch, worried about a cop on the side of the road, but still keeps the 2 second rule as he should. It’ll still be one car every 2 sec and 30 cars/minute.
You’re thinking how many cars fit in a mile of traffic flow, but that doesn’t matter – the whole block of them is moving faster. What matters is how many cars get through in a given time, right?
.
BTW, I agree completely with the gist of your comment, that those good drivers who leave the right space get screwed as other drivers continually fill in those spaces.
I’ve been on the autobahn – it only seems to work right when there are 3 lanes each side: The trucks doing 100 kph on the right, guys like me driving rented Subarus in the middle till I pass a group of trucks and move right, and then the fast movers on the left (who still better come right when they aren’t passing at the moment.)
so u have that distance plus car length.
and on a given distance, lets say 1 kilometer, u can simply not fit as many cars plus the 2 second distance.
that is why those reduced allowed speeds at specific times in the morning help preventing traffic jams.
At tempo 50 km/h 2 seconds are about 30 meters. So 35 in total.
So clearly at tempo 50 we can fit nearly twice the amount of cars on a part of the road with a given length.
Which is still faster movement for all traffic participants than being stuck in a traffic jam.Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
Don’t know about the rest of youse, but I automatically deduct 18 IQ points and 55 respect points from anyone whose books, or term papers or articles always have titles with the following structure…
“CATCHPHRASE: HOW DOING WHAT I WANT AND NOT DOING WHAT WHITE PEOPLE WANT WILL MAKE ALL OUR DREAMS COME TRUE”
Honestly, I can write this jerk’s automatic drivel in my sleep. Sometimes I even do, then wake up screaming.
For example, Hitmark, let's say everyone uses the 2-second rule for spacing and they are going about 75 mph because they are good drivers. Stand at a mile marker or signpost: You will see a car go by every 2 seconds. You will see 30 cars go by each minute.
Now, everyone slows to 60 mph for a stretch, worried about a cop on the side of the road, but still keeps the 2 second rule as he should. It'll still be one car every 2 sec and 30 cars/minute.
You're thinking how many cars fit in a mile of traffic flow, but that doesn't matter - the whole block of them is moving faster. What matters is how many cars get through in a given time, right?
.
BTW, I agree completely with the gist of your comment, that those good drivers who leave the right space get screwed as other drivers continually fill in those spaces.
I've been on the autobahn - it only seems to work right when there are 3 lanes each side: The trucks doing 100 kph on the right, guys like me driving rented Subarus in the middle till I pass a group of trucks and move right, and then the fast movers on the left (who still better come right when they aren't passing at the moment.)Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Hitmarck, @Hitmarck
Should be: “2 seconds per lane“.
Consider the possibility that all of our institutions are in the Donut Shop, not just the police, and for similar (Goldwaterite) reasons.
This isn’t hard to understand: if Rick Perlstein publicly agrees with Steve Sailer on anything — and I do mean anything, including the odds of the Chicago Bears making the playoffs this year — Rick’s career is over. Finished and done.
Rick likes his gig and doesn’t want to lose it (which, to be fair, I understand).
Better to lose the debate on Twitter than lose your career.
This isn’t the 1980s — we no longer live in a free society.
I suppose we should all be grateful he didn’t just block you.
They will always have magical powers over people like Steve Sailer, John Derbyshire and even Jared Taylor. It is to laugh.Replies: @Curle
Glad to hear it about younger folk. Most I encounter are SJWs.
For me it’s the SJW adults that get to me. But the anti-SJW types hate me too.
And by the way, your “apples to apples” comparison is astonishingly easy to do. In a just a few minutes I looked up the murder rates for Baltimore, Maryland and Marion County, West Virginia. Marion County is the poorest county in West Virginia and has the lowest per capita income. The murder rate is 1/4 that of Baltimore.
But at least your admission that IQ is real and measurable is a sort of progress.Replies: @Intelligent Dasein, @Jack D, @Sir Launcelot Canning
Marion County is definitely not the poorest WV county. That would be McDowell County.
However, when it comes to East Asians, all bets are off. If you ask an Asian American engineer what his father did, chances are he worked in a restaurant or a laundry.
Jews have worked their way up the ladder, but in the first off the boat generations (I'm one) it was very typical for the parents of successful scientists or professionals to be uneducated. Dick Feynman's dad Melville (Moshe?) came from Minsk as a small child and was a (not very successful) small businessman, not a scientist. My father was a chicken farmer and not only was he not learned in the law, he was completely illiterate in the Roman alphabet. He was more illiterate than the least educated black person in America who can at least read a Colt-45 label (my father once mistook furniture polish for cooking oil). There were no English books in my house (unless I took them out of the library). Actually no Yiddish books either - neither of my parents were book readers, although they would read the Yiddish newspaper. And talk about generational trauma - 90% of the people he grew up with were murdered and he came within a hair himself. But somehow this did not affect my SAT scores. Magic I guess.Replies: @Curle
“ There were no English books in my house (unless I took them out of the library).”
Don’t know how old you are but even kids from homes with books were avid library book readers. I never lived somewhere were books and libraries were hard to find. In fact, I used to order them through the mail. This reference to ‘books in the house’ is made a lot and seemingly imbued with great meaning. At best it suggests an parental monkey see monkey do effect where reading is concerned.
Yawn, I think about the sexiest girl cross country runner from my high school days more than any famous person. I’ve never really understood this fascination much less excitement over famous people.
But there should be a euphemism like, maybe, "The One Standard Deviation Taboo," that gives some plausible deniability to at least refer to the issue. As in, "I'm not necessarily saying the lack of Black Astrophysists at Stanford is due to The One Standard Deviation Taboo, but it sure is consistent." If someone challenges you by saying "what is this taboo of which you speak?" You can truthfully respond, "I can't say, because that would break the taboo."
Surely, they can't throw you off Twitter for refusing to say bad things (can they?).Replies: @Jack D, @G. Poulin, @Pat Kittle
When a euphemistic reference to Blacks (i.e., “dindu’s”) gets established , ADL/SPLC hall monitors get it banned as “hate speech.”
Likewise with Jews (i.e., “tiny hats,” “(((echoes))),” etc.
Typically, the challenger (like Perlstein here) knows the taboo, in which case you can truthfully respond, “The only reason you ask is to get be banned from Twitter for telling you what you already know.”
...get me banned...
Likewise with Jews (i.e., "tiny hats," "(((echoes)))," etc.Typically, the challenger (like Perlstein here) knows the taboo, in which case you can truthfully respond, "The only reason you ask is to get be banned from Twitter for telling you what you already know."Replies: @Pat Kittle
^Typo correction:
…get me banned…
For example, Hitmark, let's say everyone uses the 2-second rule for spacing and they are going about 75 mph because they are good drivers. Stand at a mile marker or signpost: You will see a car go by every 2 seconds. You will see 30 cars go by each minute.
Now, everyone slows to 60 mph for a stretch, worried about a cop on the side of the road, but still keeps the 2 second rule as he should. It'll still be one car every 2 sec and 30 cars/minute.
You're thinking how many cars fit in a mile of traffic flow, but that doesn't matter - the whole block of them is moving faster. What matters is how many cars get through in a given time, right?
.
BTW, I agree completely with the gist of your comment, that those good drivers who leave the right space get screwed as other drivers continually fill in those spaces.
I've been on the autobahn - it only seems to work right when there are 3 lanes each side: The trucks doing 100 kph on the right, guys like me driving rented Subarus in the middle till I pass a group of trucks and move right, and then the fast movers on the left (who still better come right when they aren't passing at the moment.)Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Hitmarck, @Hitmarck
2 seconds at speed 60 are less distance than 2 seconds at speed 100.
so u have that distance plus car length.
and on a given distance, lets say 1 kilometer, u can simply not fit as many cars plus the 2 second distance.
that is why those reduced allowed speeds at specific times in the morning help preventing traffic jams.
Steve should be asking whether traffic cameras are good or bad for Americans, not whether they are good for blacks or not.
I'm left behind in a famous integrated university community on Chicago's South Side - Obamas made it their base of operations.
The surrounding neighborhoods have been 98% Black African American since the mid 1960s.
Violent (Black and Latino gang) crime has been a constant my whole life, but you are correct the post George Floyd BLM racial recognizing has resulted in a very noticeable change in traffic dangers. Driving on Lake Shore Drive and the Dan Ryan is often like something out of a Mad Max movie.
Teen drivers of color can basically get away with anything and they do - LSD speed limit is supposedly to be 45 MPH, I rove ~ 52 cars fly by me going in and out of lanes like I'm stopped.
Most morning walks I see the wreckage from the night before guard rails smashed down, car body parts.
Also there are many vehicles on roads, pathways and sidewalks I had never seen before - all kins of Electro bikes that can go as fast as smaller motorcycles. Then there are these one week vehicles out of a Robocop movie.
I've pretty much given up all bicycling as I can't go fast enough to hold the lane on the street, walking is best as one can step aside and if you do go down, you're not traveling so it's a straight take down.
Mexicans now compete with B A Americans to take over certain streets in the Loop and do something called donuting. But it's the drive by shootings out of cars on the streets that causes more murder and mayhem and this is definitely B African American.
Hey Steve - I take it you are familiar with these Chicago Go To blogs for tell it like it is true crime stats and stories with honest presentation of racial realities.
WWW.HeyJackAss.com
Crime in WrigleyVille and Boystown.
Best Chicago Tribune Greek American Writer John Kass got purged from the Chicago Tribune by "Woke" libs who objected to him mentioning George Soros funding Kim Foxx and other "Let the Criminals GO Free" BLM District Attorneys. He nows has a paid personal blog JohnKass News - maybe you can contact him and get him to writer for Vdare, Taking and or Unz.
Keep the faith Chicago brother - once you were here in Chicago you can never really leave.
J Ryan
TPC Radio Show.Replies: @ATBOTL
Doing donuts and car stunts like that in intersections with spectators started in Newark, NJ in the 1980’s. Originally, it was always done with stolen cars and the cars were driven hard until they were destroyed, often by ramming police cars.
Absolutely no disrespect intended to Americans who are impacted by these issues.
For example, Hitmark, let's say everyone uses the 2-second rule for spacing and they are going about 75 mph because they are good drivers. Stand at a mile marker or signpost: You will see a car go by every 2 seconds. You will see 30 cars go by each minute.
Now, everyone slows to 60 mph for a stretch, worried about a cop on the side of the road, but still keeps the 2 second rule as he should. It'll still be one car every 2 sec and 30 cars/minute.
You're thinking how many cars fit in a mile of traffic flow, but that doesn't matter - the whole block of them is moving faster. What matters is how many cars get through in a given time, right?
.
BTW, I agree completely with the gist of your comment, that those good drivers who leave the right space get screwed as other drivers continually fill in those spaces.
I've been on the autobahn - it only seems to work right when there are 3 lanes each side: The trucks doing 100 kph on the right, guys like me driving rented Subarus in the middle till I pass a group of trucks and move right, and then the fast movers on the left (who still better come right when they aren't passing at the moment.)Replies: @Achmed E. Newman, @Hitmarck, @Hitmarck
So at tempo 100 km/h 2 seconds are round about 60 meters. Plus car length 5 meters say 65 in total.
At tempo 50 km/h 2 seconds are about 30 meters. So 35 in total.
So clearly at tempo 50 we can fit nearly twice the amount of cars on a part of the road with a given length.
Which is still faster movement for all traffic participants than being stuck in a traffic jam.
Jesus. Glad I don’t live in the USA. Seriously messed up demographics.
Absolutely no disrespect intended to Americans who are impacted by these issues.
At tempo 50 km/h 2 seconds are about 30 meters. So 35 in total.
So clearly at tempo 50 we can fit nearly twice the amount of cars on a part of the road with a given length.
Which is still faster movement for all traffic participants than being stuck in a traffic jam.Replies: @Achmed E. Newman
I’m about to give up on you, Hitmark. You’re making it too complicated for yourself. If cars follow at the same time interval which could be safe or not – 2 seconds is what they’ve always recommended*- then the same number of cars will go by in a given time.
I understand your calculation of how many cars will fit on a kilometer-lane of road. So what?
Of course, a jam is slower. Some cars are stopped. Then, if it’s stop and go, there’s something that resembles turbulence in fluid flow, as cars can’t start and stop at the same time as the ones in front.
We’re not talking about traffic jams. We’re talking about a steady normal 75 mph flow vs. 40 mph or 25 mph or whatever. Same following distance in TIME = same amount of cars per time.
.
* Do you know what I mean by this? To check yourself occasionally, you watch the car ahead go right next to a sign, or watch its front approach a certain pavement marking (the sign is easier). You should get to that point 2 seconds later.
I didnt read your posts in total, cause mine was 100% correct from the beginning.
The conviction was in 2003 and the police officer was shot dead as his partner was arresting the brother of the perpetrator.
The scandal is that it took the superior court 27 months to dispose of this case. Since then, the appellate courts have spent 221 months noodling around with it with no resolution in sight. If our courts were anything but a venue for lawyers to play footsie with each other, this man would have been put in front of a firing squad a dozen years ago if not earlier than that.
• I Give Up: Achmed E. Newman
I thought the goal of drinking was to intoxicate the ladies pleasantly, not to make drunkards out of men.