Butterfly Effect: Chara not existing makes Undertale turn into Deltarune
"Therefore" doesn't look like a word anymore hahaha
Perchance
You can’t just say “perchance”
Cool as fuck
Stomp a Turty
He’s so cool
horrible opening
im sorry but i can't see "Toto, we went [blank]ing" without thinking of "Its called a motor race, Toto. We went car racing"
if this is a reference to Michael Masi, I applaud you
Perchance
Perchance
mayhaps...
(nonexistent?)
the lifekind
Therefore
therefore
therefore
Der for
SOmetimes it just be that it do what is.
From this reason we came to the conclusion that
This is one of the most compelling theories I've seen in a while. Granted, there are a few weak spots that can't be confirmed nor debunked as of yet, but I love your thinking!
Thanks!
More than a few weak points I think, there's a ton of things OP just sorta ignores to make their point- biggest among them being that a ton of older monster never saw a human before, meaning Asriel would be older than college age.
Also other stuff like a lack of magic in the light world, Gerson being remembered solely as an author when in Undertale he was known as a war hero, Asgore being destitute and respected by nobody- if he was the king that freed the underground, people would respect him no matter how bad he bungled being a police chief.
... Also why would he have been police chief in the first place and not King?
You're right in that regard, but it does still cover how everything lines up in a world that the monsters don't go underground and highlights the possibility Chara never became relevant in this universe. The assumption it's a timeline where Chara never fell is the only inconsistency but half the points stand regardless of what point in background the two games diverge
I mean, Snowdrake is only a teenager in UT and even he recognizes Frisk is a human.
So? That doesn't mean anything, just that he's more perceptive than your average monster. Undyne recognizes you as a human too but she says she's never seen a human before.
They have a ton of human media from the garbage that falls down, I'm surprised more monsters don't recognize Frisk as a human- although I suppose it's implied Alphys and Mettaton's interest in human culture is fairly niche.
Ight, because of this comment I'll read the theory for ants.
Click to zoom in, my oreo bro.
Ants, uncles… Deltarune theories are for everyone.
Ants? Do you mean...
ANT-SERS?!!?
Sants antsdertale!!!???
Sans Undertale = Ants Under Sale
I didn't know Undertale was having a crossover with Bug Fables
I am fully aware that Rudy died in the UT timeline before seeing the surface, as per the Clock App dialogue. We must know HOW exactly he died in UT, as well as potentially what happened to Dess in DR, in order to figure out if this is truly a hole in the theory, since Dess's disappearance or death may have something to do with his life being prolonged by a few years.
Where is this stated exactly 👀
Toby has released dialogue that takes place post-true pacifist ending. In one of the lines, it is stated by Asgore that Rudy "Fell down" and Asgore laments that he was never able to "Show (Rudy) you the sun"
I have no idea how I didn't read this, thanks
Semi-related, I love how the annoying dog at the bottom of the page opens it's mouth when you tap/click on it
This probably just means that Deltarune occurs chronologically before Undertale, and in Deltarune, Rudy's terminal illness hasn't killed him yet.
I don't think that could be the case, because if that were true, Asgore wouldn't have needed to show Rudy the sun before he died, because he would have already seen it, among other things.
yeah this also can't happen because the Old Turtle dude from UT has a grave in Deltarune.
The biggest headscratcher that'd answer a lot of questions, is confirmation on what Rudy's sickness is as well as info on Dess + Mayor, but, after reading your post it made me think a lot more about how it all could connect with what we know, if I took this theory into account, and go full crackpot mode. Monster's are made of magic, not having physical bodies ofc, so, his sickness could pertain to a lot of different things, like, magic deficiency, determination, poisoned internally by some physical anomaly, or age through his daughters (assuming they're really boss monsters, which is the most likely answer). But, your theory lines up well... it'd explain Rudy's sudden falling down due to age in Undertale... since the barrier was never broken AND Dess never had anything happen to her, Rudy fell down much sooner. In Undertale's alarmclock, Asgore lamented how Rudy started to look much older than him after all, having two daughters rather than just one son. So, unless Chara unlikely poisoned Rudy with buttercups and was more directly involved the cause of Rudy's death or something... either way, it'd mean that without Chara, Rudy and their family would have been fine, kept good relations with Asgore + etc, Dess + Noelle would have grew up with Kris + Asriel, and that if we also assume that they're really boss monsters, Noelle and Dess would be aging and draining life from Rudy and Major... compared to Undertale where they only have one parent left and are secluded elsewhere after Rudy dies... and that Rudy's "sickness" in Deltarune is really just him reaching the end of his life naturally, albeit having been heavily postponed due to, again, the monsters being freed very early due to the barrier being broken, Dess dying/missing in Deltarune mysteriously, and how Noelle is the only child they have left... two children would make Rudy and Mayor age a lot faster than just Noelle after all. I'm sure there's a lot of holes, questsions, and assumptions on this extension of your theory, especially pertaining to what that means happened to Susie/Suzy in Undertale and why Dess is dead/missing in Deltarune ( makes me think about how disturbed Susie was upon hearing Dess being mentioned in Chapter 2 ), but, I really love your theory all the same.
Maybe it was more of a 'show him the sun one more time' thing?
Sure, I suppose, but it does feel like a bit of a stretch.
except that's impossible. there is no way deltarune could have happened before. After all, might I remind you, gerson is dead in deltarune, yet he's alive in undertale? not only that, but Papyrus had never seen the sun in undertale, yet if deltarune did indeed happen first, he should have already seen it when him and sans were on the surface. Also also many other things about deltarune, like the amalgamates also being dead would be impossible, since they fell down in the Underground, not the surface.
Deltarune doesn't happen after Undertale. They're two distinct universes. I'm saying it's possible that Deltarune's history also involved the monsters getting exiled underground.
gerson is dead in deltarune, yet he's alive in undertale
Yes, and? Deltarune would happen after exiting the underground. Gerson was still alive at the underground and then died later on the surface, which is why he was buried in Hometown.
Papyrus had never seen the sun in undertale
What makes you think Papyrus was alive back before Monsters were exiled into the underworld? The NPC's in Snowdin imply that Sans and Papyrus sort of just appeared one day and 'asserted themselves', this would imply that they've not always been around.
amalgamates also being dead would be impossible
I'm beginning to think you didn't even read OP's post.
No clearly you didn't read my post.
What I was doing was explaining why Deltarune couldn't have happened before undertale. You misinterpreted what I was saying like with papyrus never seeing the sun. I never said he was alive before monsters were sealed. I said that the fact he hadn't seen the sun in undertale meant that he couldn't have been the same papyrus in Deltarune. That was my post, it had nothing to do with the original post. I merely assumed that you were saying that Deltarune came before undertale as a prequel and was providing evidence to the contrary. So you were way off
Yes, and? Deltarune would happen after exiting the underground. Gerson was still alive at the underground and then died later on the surface, which is why he was buried in Hometown.
Well, yes but in that case, Rudy wouldn't be alive, as he was dead when gerson was alive
We know this likely isn't true based on the dates the games take place. Undertale in 201x, Deltarune in 202x
Edit: I see you are looking at this from a different perspective than I thought. My apologies.
Edit 2: 201x and 202x, not 20xx and 21xx. My b.
Edit 3: I know nothing about times. I leave this up as a mark of my shame.
Where is that Deltarune one from?
I'm going nuts. I have been convinced I saw this in the game for years and years. Now I can't find it. What's happening to me
Edit: deltarune takes place in 202x and undertale in 201x. Made corrections above. My apologies
From the Ralsei Manual images that are in the game files
We must know HOW exactly he died in UT,
He was old. As Asgore said, over time, Rudy started to look older than him. And later he fallen down
Main issue I have with this theory is the timeline of it all. The idea that 6 humans all fell within a single human lifespan's worth of time is rather.... contradictory to many aspects of Undertale story. Frisk fell after a long while, and unless somehow Frisk is just lucky 7th and previous 6 just fell in quick succession? I doubt that. While it is a neat concept, the simple timeline of humans falling does not add up enough.
I mean, I studied every bit of Undertale I possibly could. There's nothing in there that directly counters the idea that the timespan is a heck of a lot shorter than previously believed. I mean, if it's been a huge amount of time, surely the Tutu would have rotted from all the moisture in waterfall, right?
Primarily, its almost every monster currently alive that explicitly does NOT have a known unnaturally long lifespan attesting to never seeing a human before, never meeting one, and more importantly - none of the main cast knowing who Toriel is. Human falling down is treated as extremely special by everyone who knows the real implications. Undyne's and Alphys' dialogues both imply that no human ever fell for their entire lives, much less that they were alive all the way back when Asriel was. And Asriel in Deltarune is younger than both Undyne and Alphys. How come none of them recognize the 'Queen' if she was gone for so short? How come Undyne, who has been a Captain long enough to train Papyrus and develop a fearsome reputation, never encountered a single human for such a short timespan in which a whopping 6 fell?
Simply put - game heavily implies that at absolute minimum a whole century has passed between Chara's fall and Frisk's. And most likely, actually several centuries.
How would the seven humans be able to break the barrier? I am quite sure their souls all need to be absorbed to break it.
There are some possible ways:
1: 7 human SOUL power is enough to make the barrier vulnerable just by being close to it, and at that point, the barrier just needs to be attacked and it is broken
2: Asgore had the 7 humans temporarily remove their SOULS so that he could absorb them and break the barrier, then he returned them afterwards (remember, Kris was alive without a SOUL and is also capable of removing their SOUL too. Perhaps they learned how to remove a SOUL so they could lend it to Asgore.) Even if they lent Asgore their SOULS, there would still be technically no bloodshed.
3: The 7 SOULS can "Shine their power" onto Asgore, giving him the ability to break the barrier, much like how the SOUL can shine it's power onto Susie or Ralsei to boost their abilities.
Those are potential solutions, though they feel like a stretch.
2 is especially a stretch considering we don't really know what the relationship between Kris and the soul truly is. For all we know and assume, I believe the current consensus was that the soul isn't even Kris soul, but a sort of... Idk, "device" used by the player to control Kris
And I wonder where you got point 3 from. You might be right, but I don't remember where that was implied
king fight. red buster and dual heal. dont remember if it's in queens' fight
It's in queen's fight. just replayed chapter 2 last night, so i know
If we assume that this applies to the magic actions that require TP, that would also apply to pacify
Yet, at the start of chapter 2, when Ralsei pacifies the wirebeasts, he does so from offscreen, before we are even aware that he is there. How would this work then?
There is no information in game about monster emitting absorbed soul.
If your first point was true, then just the presence of Frisk at the barrier would've been enough for Asgore to break it. He had all the other souls he needed right there
Maybe it’s kind of like sealing a dark fountain. Both actions do look mildly similar.
If this was the case wouldn’t we at least see mention of the other souls, and their previous life in the Underground? And I’d imagine that if Kris was a seventh of the reason behind their liberation they wouldn’t exactly be in Asriel’s shadow like they are.
Me personally I have headcannon, well more of a fanfic that in deltarune timeline, the war bewteen humans and monsters was stopped by the first roaring, in which humans and monster made peace and defeated the cause of the roaring, however monster loss most of there magic, but did gain determination. That magic that was taken away is in the Darkners.
Well see the later chapters to get more information, but that my idea and fanfic of it for now
I don't think Monsters ever had natural magic powers. I want to combine this with the theory that the Underground in Undertale was a Dark World. It makes a whole bunch of sense:
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You enter the Underground by falling.
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The exiting process requires a human soul, in Undertale's case 7 human souls, because it was created by 7 human wizards.
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While within, you gain magical RPG-like powers.
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Areas within the Underground become exaggerated and enlargened. I believe that prior to creating the Dark Fountain within, the Underground was just a regular cave.
Maybe but
A) The food there is real B) The monsters can leave the Underground so they're not Darkners C) Since every monster can leave the Underground, this means none of them are Darkners and it would be highly unusual for a dark fountain to have no Darkeners
I dont know for sure if this is something, but an npc in Grillbys mentions that monster food is different than human food because monster food doesn’t spoil, and it doesn’t actually pass through the body
These are good points. Regarding A), now that I think back on it, do we have confirmation that the food in the underground is 'real'? It heals you, obviously, but do any characters make mention of hunger?
B) and C) are also good for consideration. Maybe if the underground really didn't have any Darkeners, then it would be a non-issue, but disinclined to believe that. At least, it would mean that the Dark World in Undertale was a different type than the ones we've seen in Deltarune.
Point A is a little weird admitedly because dark world food does heal you when you're in a dark fountain, along with having a taste, and as someone else pointed out somone in grillby's said monster food is different than human food where it doesn't spoil and doesn't pass through the body, but monsters would have to eat something to survive so long in the Underground, as well as the fact Susie said that it doesn't fill her up, but it could just be a non-digestable source of energy
Maybe there aren't any darkeners because caves are pretty emptry and darkners are objects.
Areas within the Underground become exaggerated and enlargened. I believe that prior to creating the Dark Fountain within, the Underground was just a regular cave.
A thought occurred to me, as I was about to point out the question of where the Underground's Fountain is - what if the Core contains the Fountain?
It'd explain entry 17. It'd explain the "creation that [Gaster] fell in". It'd explain why a relatively simple geothermal reactor would have to be so impossibly vast for such a relatively small population of monsters.
What if the main component of, and main purpose of, the Core was to not just create - but contain a Dark Fountain? And what if like you said, it'd succeeded?
[removed]
That's also a good point. OP's theory might not be entirely water proof. There's clearly thematical similarities between the underground and a Dark World, but a literal interpretation might not hold up.
Instead, maybe Deltarune is what would've become of the Monsters if the war between monsters and humans just never ocurred?
Its a really cool idea but you have the lightworld menu and lightworld hp
The "first roaring"?? The Roaring is an eternal world destroying event. We know for a fact that The Roaring has not EVER occurred because it lasts...forever. and so we'd still see the consequences of it and I dunno about you but lightners don't seem to be trapped eternally in endless night
In the first part of the prophecy (stated by Ralsei in ch1) it literally says that the roaring can be stopped. The second part (stated in ch2, which I assume is what you’re talking about) is stating what could happen if no one stops it.
Well it does seems the roaring will happen in the game. I was saying given that raslei explaining why creating too many dark world is a bad idea, it sound like it may have happen before. I was saying that if something similar happen may years ago and that how Darkerns came to be.
Interesting, but multiple things contradict this. Firstly, Catti and Bratti dont know eachother in DT. At all. If anything they hate eachother. Secondly, when the monsters used in the DT trials died, they would have died (and thus probably been buried) underground. Thirdly, Undyne is the hero and head of the royal guard. Not a single monster doesnt know who she is except maybe Toriel. Alphys not knowing who Undyne is just doesn’t fit with that. Fourthly, Rudy dies whilst in the Underground in UT. Assuming that Frisk falls at the same time as always, Rudy would be dead in UT, or even an amalgamate. In DT, he’s not doing too hot, but he is very much alive. Fifth, I would argue that Asgore would still hire sentries to keep an eye out for humans. After all, if a human falls down, they should be taken to Asgore ASAP to help break the barrier and be introduced to the underground.
It's a fun hypothetical so nice job coming up with this, it's definitely wrong but still fun.
If you need a reason it's wrong the alarm clock dialogue for UT confirms that Rudy lived underground in UT and died presumably of natural causes before Frisk ever fell down, and Noelle and Dess were alive underground before Frisk showed up and got to grow up together on the surface, this alone makes the time frame unworkable.
I am fully aware that Rudy died in the UT timeline before seeing the surface, as per the Clock App dialogue. We must know HOW exactly he died in UT, as well as potentially what happened to Dess in DR, in order to figure out if this is truly a hole in the theory.
I think the implication is that Rudy died of old age, as Asgore mentioned that they went to university together (which implies that they are of similar age) yet Asgore remarks how eventually rudy started looking older than him
Right, because Two daughters would maybe age him faster than Asgore.
i think that's more because of it being implied that boss monsters live much longer than the average monster
There is the problem for me
To my understanding this rule applies specifically to bossmonsters and only to them, given the way the text specifies them.
And I do not believe that Rudy is a boss monster. That would be a large and weird coincidence
Pretty good headcannon, but since literally nobody recognize Dreemurr family as/were royalty, this probably didn't happened.
Also undertale probably happened in 211x (Chara fell in 201x, Undyne and Papyrus username are strongfish91 and coolskeleton95, that means Undyne was born in 2091, Papyrus in 2095), so it probably also need Asriel to born waaaaay later in timeline to match up(or boss monster age slowly idk).
Ignoring what you said about the timeline (it's unprovable, I checked.) But think about it for a second.
Asgore is bad at names, right? Home, New Home, Hometown
But have you thought about Flower King?
Could he have named it that because it's a shop where a former King sells flowers?
I call my dad king of the kitchen because he never let anyone interfere with his cooking, but it’s just a cute nickname, like Asgore could call himself “flower king” all he want but is never a royalty in deltarune universe.
And most importantly, nobody in hometown treat anyone like they are important. You’d think the mayor could have less leverage to relive Asgore of his duty if he was a king before (and a beloved one too, people would protest). Nobody is calling Asgore fluffybun, either.
Also timeline is still kind of wonky. Asgore probably wouldn’t be Rudy’s roommate or even going to college with him, if you are applying undertale lore to deltarune.
While I don't necessarily agree with most of this, I can accept it, however...
If Asgore used to be the king of all monsters, why and how is he so broke that he can't afford rent?
Well maybe its cuz the non boss characters were born after the barrier was broken in this timeline so they weren't around when asgore and toriel were monarchs
Since Asriel is alive in deltarune, and in college too(that put him at 20s), monsters like Undyne and such would be plenty old to remember.
I think the biggest issues with this theory are mostly the Dreemurr's status as royals, the timeframe, and Gaster.
I sincerely doubt that if Asgore and Toriel were still the monarch, even if they left those positions, that Asgore would be having such a hard time finding work. Not to mention that Dess, Asriel, Kris, and Noelle all seem to have had their entire lives happen on the surface. And the fact that it poses no sufficient explination for what happened to magic, and gives no real time for Gaster to "disappear", and I sincerely think he'd be playing a much bigger role if he still existed as a normal person. The man built the CORE and the DT extractors, for god's sake. It would also make the prophecy of the Angel... REALLY weird. There's just no realistic way I think the Barrier or the Human-Monster war could've happened in Deltarune.
Of course, one could easily extrapolate that this simply means that you could somehow connect the start of the Human-Monster war to Chara's very existence. Some scuffle between them as an infant, or their parents, and some random monster, allowing the war to come to a close before they are old enough to run away to Ebott and meet the Dreemurrs (living in the Ruins was something they'd be doing only during the VERY beginning of their stay Underground, so it kind of lines up). Hence, if they never existed, it would never happen, but... this is getting very Butterfly Effect-y. It feels like too much to pin on one human child. It feels a lot easier to simply say this is a timeline where the War and Barrier never existed than to place such importance on one child. Otherwise, yes, everything else here is quite solid in terms of explaining why certain monsters have fallen into new roles.
This is really compelling and well-thought out! Chara might have not exosted in Deltarune's world after all!
There are a couple issues hat i have with this theory though that make it difficult for me to believe that Undertale/Deltarune share the same continuity:
1)It's implied that monsters don't know about magic in Deltarune:
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Toriel uses the stove instead of her fire magic
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Susie is surprised that healing magic can be used by anyone except Ralsei
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Noelle tells Rudy how she wishes that "anyhing could be cured by a simple spell"
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for Kris's searhes on "how to do magic" Queen offers them a book of party tricks. I bet that Google in a magic world would offer you more than that
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everyone seems to be eating physical food, despite Kris being the only human in town. No magical food in sight, which is weird, since it's the only kind of food found in Undertale
2)Nobody seems to treat Toriel/Asgore as ex-royalty
3)Gerson, who got his nickname "Hammer of justice" from being a war hero in Undertale, wrote a book that goes by the same name in Deltarune. This book is regarded as fiction, and Gerson is only regarded as a writer/historian/teacher, not a war veteran
As much as you make good points, I've been a part of a group that discusses in HUGE depth each piece of evidence, and so far, the only thing that we've been able to settle on is that, as of now, the rules regarding magic and dt are still not yet entirely proven one way or the other. As much as I'd like to explain how, though, It would take me forever. Sorry.
I will tell you, that stovetop is evidence of nothing. Toriel just happens to mix her pies above it. That's why it's got pie batter on it. You can even see it in a cutscene when she is baking with Susie.
I would love to see that discussion, but i understand if you don't have time.
While i agree with you about the stovetop, i can't help but feel like there are still other continuity issues that stay unresolved in this theory:
1)The Gerson situation i stated above (although i kind of goofed, the name of the book he wrote isn't "Hammer of Justice", it's "Lord of the Hammer")
2)The Asgore and Toriel not being treated like ex-royalty and not looking like they are. It is pretty minor, and i'm probably overthinking it, but they don't look as economically well-off and politically important as, say, the Holiday family
3)The time window issue: if the barrier was broken after Frisk's arrival to the Underground, then all the characters were the same age as they were during the events of Undertale when it broke.
Gerson was already incerdibly old and well-versed in the history of humans and monsters (which is also the second book he wrote in Deltarune) when the barrier broke, yet a picture of him drawn by Alvin can be seen in Deltarune's unused classroom. That means that monsters were already on the surface when Alvin (who is reasonably old in Deltarune) was a kid.
This contrasts starkly with other characters, like Kris's classmates, only being slightly (from kids to teens) older than they were in Deltarune.
I might just be being dumb. If i am, please explain to me what i got wrong
this is proposing that at LEAST the time between human 1 and frisk falls down is short enough that asriel, toriel and asgore are barely noticably older, which... seems unlikely? we dont know the speed of an aging boss monster but deltarune is implying its similar to human aging speed considering kris and asriel grew up together. meanwhile its generally understood that the time between chara and frisk's fall is at least a century.
this whole thing is REALLY interesting and a lot of thought put into it, though. even if it doesnt fit, it would explain a good amount...
EDIT: I take my compliments back, this theory sucks a lot and ignores both canon events and things Toby was clearly trying to say. See below if you want
Edit edit: motherfucker just said "Ladies and gentlemen, the egotist is exposed." without a HINT of irony. feel free to take this seriously if you want ig lol
I am surprised you even entertained OP for so long. Just ignore them.
Honestly this is interesting thought but definitely false
Wouldn't Asriel be like a hundred years old? And wouldn't Asgore and Toriel die of old age?
There's not exactly any proof of the huge timegap that would make Asriel that old. I mean, if we say Asriel was born in 2001 and Deltarune takes place in 202X like Ralsei's manual says, then he'd be college age.
Yeah there is. Undyne had never seen a human before and she's not like, young. Neither had most of the monsters you encounter- so they at the very least weren't alive when Chara was, which means they weren't alive when Asriel was a kid.
This is an interesting theory but wow is this graphic hard to read.
Eh not really, although i am used to reading large text walls in roleplays so maybe I'm used to a fuck ton of text
lmao
You can't just say "therefore"
It's literally "the same exact characters just in a different universe" au, sans is exactly the same as he was in Undertale except for a different history. As opposed to him being THE same sans in undertale
It's just a different universe and characters's ages in the way it best suits the story Toby wants to tell.
There's at least a hundred years between Chara and Frisk, it's implied by Undyne not knowing who Toriel is, her saying Frisk is the first human she ever saw, Sans saying Toriel laughed at the first joke he made her "like It was the funniest joke she heard in a hundred years" (and Sans is known for being attentive enough to notice when Frisk is time travelling), Asriel saying he saw human villages when he went to the surface but when we leave we see a big advanced city in the distance, etc.
And if the difference was "Chara doesn't exist" then characters like Monster Kid/Teen, Snowy, Undyne, Alphys.... Basically everyone would be noticeably older.
There's also stuff that you wouldn't be able to explain without a lot of contrivance, like magic being seemingly forgotten by monsters enough that they don't even use it anymore, Asgore and Toriel not being recognized as Royals, as you already said Rudy being alive, Catty and Bratty not knowing each other, among other things.
Cool theory
My biggest problem with this theory is that there is no evidence Toriel and Asgore were ever the queen and king of the undergeound.
In truth, the fact that Asgore could be fired from the police force at all, makes me think he was always just a regular middle class dude.
I am more inclined to think a human-monster war happened before Asgore's reign in this timeline. A different ruler took different decision during the war, which leds to the monsters victory, and Humanity's failure in sealing monsterkind.
i appreciate the effort and the creativity, but i don't think this theory is really compelling. the most differences could be explained with the war never happening, and if the deltarune monsters did leave the underground, wouldn't that be a major topic anywhere mentioned? in undertale, gerson has mentioned the war several times in his books, so wouldn't he reference the leaving of the underground too? if he died before they could leave the underground, why was he referenced as a historian, but not as a legendary hero? so i personally think it's more probable, that the monsters never got trapped in the underground, but still, cool theory
Hey, it's all possible. Just because nobody talked about it doesn't mean it couldn't have happened. In any case, I appreciate the complements C:
It's just VERY unlikely and requires a bunch of weird coincidences to line up, feels more like deltarune is being forced on than deltarune being built around undertale events(without chara). And the overuse of "heeyyy its possible" and not providing much evidence for it is just.. yes it's possible but there's many other things that are much more possible and possibly even confirmed.
Magic DT Souls etc. Are not yet confirmed beyond all doubts to function different in Deltarune compared to UT. Saying they are different is not productive.
I apologize if what I'm about to say sounds mean but this sounds like you trying to avoid people using these arguments against your shaky theory. I mean surely you would have an explanation as to why determination seemingly can create dark fountains now, or why we have 3 save files even though Kris only has 1 soul.
But you probably don't want to have these discussions, so you just dismiss it as "oh uhhh nothing is confirmed yet even though these problems are extremely obvious!!!!"
I'm sorry, but until proven otherwise, I'll stick with the explanation that needs to jump through less hoops (something something occam's razor), that being that deltarune is a completely separate continuity from Undertale and that the only connecting link between both universes will be Gaster and maybe Sans if the "Sans Undertale is from Deltarune" theory is true.
Fully agreed.
I mean surely you would have an explanation as to why determination seemingly can create dark fountains now
There is no evidence you cannot create a dark fountain in Undertale if you knew how to do it. In fact, Sans dark room and Gaster's research, point out to the idea that they always existed.
Unless you believe the whole "dark yet darker" thing came from Deltarune Gaster.
Side note- Undyne never injured her eye or anything. She just thinks the eye patch is cool and intimidating.
Alright, sure, I can buy that I guess. I thought that the flashes of light coming from her eyepatch eye in the Undying fight were supposed to convey that she had been struck there, possibly by a spear during a training accident.
This is clearly very thought-out, but it's implied the human/monster war never happened. That's... not something Chara's lack of existence would cause.
The timeline doesn't quite make sense. Kris and Asriel grew up together in Deltarune, but given how much time seems to have passed between when Character would have fallen down to when Frisk falls down, Asriel probably would have grown up before monsters left the underground, so he would not have grown up with Kris.
And why is asriel in late teen age if we know that DT is probably after events of UT alternated of course, yet why the heck is he so young. He should be heck old and not at teen age
Not reading all this but it doesn't, he's already said it's an alternate universe
Three major issues with this theory.
1.) In UT, Rudy died before Frisk fell and the barrier was destroyed. This conflicts with the fact that Rudy is still alive during the time that DELTARUNE takes place.
2.) It would be impossible for Asgore to shatter the barrier without taking the SOULs of the seven humans. If it were possible, he would have simply done that from the start, or Toriel would have brought that up when explaining to Asgore what a superior course of action would have been.
3.) It is heavily, heavily implied that monsters are incapable of using magic naturally in the Light World in DELTARUNE. Toriel uses her oven instead of fire magic to bake pies. Noelle says that she wishes he knew healing magic in order to heal Rudy. You can’t just sweep this problem under the rug.
Do you SERIOUSLY belive that your theory is correct? If it's just for fun then this is the most amazing theory I have ever seen, but after all the arguments thrown at you, you're still saying that it's "right". Your actitude is really toxic and it seems like you don't want to admit you're wrong.
Fun theory but i dont see how asgore would go from king to struggling flower shop owner with no friends
I just think there was never a war between humans and monsters in deltarune. There's a book which states "the true purpose of souls is unknown" in hometown which implies either monsters can't absorb human souls or nobody knows about it.
I'm skeptical of this for one major reason. None of the other monsters we know of except Gerson were alive when Chara and Asriel were still alive. And we know Boss Monsters live forever until they pass their life force onto their child. Asriel's only in college, so this entire timeline, including the birth of every single character from Undertale would basically have to all take place in the ten-or-so years between Chara (not) falling down and Asriel becoming an adolescent. You could argue that maybe Boss Monsters age slower, but then how could Kris and Asriel grow up together?
Def seems unbelievable, but a very cool idea nonetheless
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Sweeping the fact that it’s heavily implied the rules of DR is different than UT (like magic not existing) under the rug is literally just denying big evidence against your theory.
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Toby himself has stated very clearly that the world of DR is not UT. It is an alternate universe. I really doubt he would lie about something like that, because it just makes no sense for him to. Why would he intentionally put misinformation about his game out there?
one thing i want to point out is that it wasn't Alphys who drew Mettaton NEO, but Mettaton himself. Swatch states that "That robot was the embodiment of a Lightner's dream... The Lightner filled it with their own hope, giving it an incredible power." which sounds like it fits Mettaton much more than Alphys, given both his diaries in Undertale and his dialogue in Deltarune
Sorry but the kids need to die otherwise they would've done that, through history of the characters we can see Asriel has not lived for hundreds of years, doesn't explain why there's no magic, they'd surely maybe I dunno mentioned they were trapped underground for hundreds of years by now, where are the other fallen children then scince you don't climb a mountain from which you may never return if you have a happy relationship with your family, why is the angel proficy different yeah doesn't really add up sorry
…how does this explain Asriel being college aged despite that he should be much further back on the timeline given how long it seems to have been since anyone’s seen a human in UT?
If a different fallen child gets adopted, why is it a red soul one? There were six others not of red color and Frisk. What would make Kris right here? There's no reason to assume the absence of the first child would change which ones fall down, either.
Well, that depends. I fully believe that the Red SOUL is not Kris's original SOUL (theirs would be Light Blue) so obviously, whoever put us in Kris swapped the Red SOUL with their original Light Blue one, and probably put or hid the Light Blue one somewhere else.
Imagine taking a shot every time you read therefore. You'd be gone before you hit the end. All up a good theory though
This is really cool! Now go outside, you’ve earned it.