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"Folk" Catholicism?
One of the thing I absolutely abhor, almost more than anything, is cultural catholicism. I've said this before, a Catholic Culture is a beautiful thing, but a cultural Catholic is an offense to the Cross. This is completely my own opinion, but I think conservative protestantism has in a way "sharpened" the Catholicism throughout much of the United States. Catholics here seem to be more sensitive to practices and (folk) beliefs that are superstitious and possibly idolatrous.
Is this different in Europe and other places of the world (those that haven't gone completely secular?) I hear stories from family members and people from the "Old Country" that seemed to have had very superstitious traditions and practices, much of this around improper understanding of the communion of saints. Does anyone have stories about this kind of "folk" Catholicism? If so, how do you think we can correct it- if it's our place to do so?
When I hear folk catholicism, I think of things like burying a St Joseph statue being buried to sell a house, or voodoo practices, or even some weird stuff attributed to apparitions (not stuff actually said by the apparitions, but other things only tangentially related.)
I think it depends on the community. Even here in the US there are some of these practices. Or even just misinformation. Like for example, my 100 year old great aunt who's grandparents were born in the Czech republic, still believes that priests have "healing powers" (as in faith healing) and also will talk about curses.
To be fair, neither of those things are impossible per se... I just wouldn't go to a priest for a broken leg..
There are priests with gifts for healing and occasionally someone will attribute healing to a priest. There was a lady whose child I prayed over at a random church that later said the child was healed. It was definitely God at work (it was something bad like water on the brain) and probably also some doctors at work.
I am not one of those priests with a gift like that, but they exist. Fr. Michael Scanlan may have had those gifts, for instance.
He had the gift of being one hell of a businessman if nothing else.
I came into this thread thinking you were talking about the Church becoming too Protestant-like, materialistic, and iconoclastic in spite of tradition -- but it looks like you might have meant the opposite. Your use of the term "cultural Catholicism" to describe old traditions is confusing. I am used to seeing this term used to describe Catholics who have become too secular and too heavily-influenced by modern Protestantism in the English-speaking world.
Are you strictly referring to pseudo-Catholic traditions that Catholics sometimes mistakenly practice, such as burying a statue of St. Joseph to help sell one's property, or are you referring to legitimate sacramental practices such as wearing the Brown Scapular?
EDIT: spelling
I, for one, expected guitars.
And bongos
I don't mean all old traditions, many of them are beautiful and I wish would become more popular again, like the various processions and proper celebration of some of the Feast days (especially all the solemnities!) Also the proper use of sacramentals and older devotions.
I was refering the pseudo-Catholic traditions like you said, along with the straight up anti-catholic traditions that seem to be syncretism run-wild (Voodo in Haiti, parts of africa, santa muerte, and this)
Some Greek Orthodox sacrifice lambs https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kourbania
Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kourbania
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Mind blown
That's messed up.
Like invoking St. Bibiana, the patron saint of hangovers, after partying too much?
What examples are you thinking of?
Not OP but I think OP is thinking of practices like the deification of Santa Muerte in Mexico. Mexico has a lot of folk practices mixed with catholicism.
Sort of along the same lines, just odd misunderstandings about the communion of Saints.
The idea that we should ask the blessed mother or the saints to pray for us because we're not worthy. Or treating the communion of Saints as a Pantheon of different entities who have certain "powers" according to whatever difficulty or issue one is experiencing. All these things seem to happen when there's a breakdown in the Christocentric foundation of the Faith. One Priest described it as building a sky scraper starting at the 3rd floor. Another example I heard is from a Mexican woman who began attending an evangelical church and her family criticizing her because "she'll no longer have good fortune" after removing the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe from her home.
The Dogma of the communion of Saints is actually somewhat difficult to understand, or it's at least not a "beginners" doctrine, and when misunderstood is ripe for superstition/ idolatry.
Treating the communion of Saints as a pantheon is pretty common.
I don't see it in America as much, I think OP is right.
It's a very interesting theory he posits.
That's devil worship, not folk Catholicism.
Tomato, tomato
Not really. There's a world of difference between derpy peasant customs and literal worship of demons.
Syncreticism is a very real occurrence. All power and divinity is attributed to God and intercession is sought via the saints. Those petitions and practices may resemble previous religious practices in the area. For example, visiting Catholic churches in Latin America, particularly those outside of major metropolitan areas, one might encounter fires burning outside the church doors and inside, down the aisles of the church — something perfectly accepted by the Church in that region, and that is a holdover from Mayan times in form, but with a different belief to it now. In Italy and many other places, a town or region’s patron saint(s) may correspond in “jurisdiction” to pre-Christian gods that “ruled” the same area. As most here probably know, in many/most parts of the world, when Catholicism arrived, its churches were built on top of existing pre-Christian worship sites.
There's some Mayan that's take their own incense to church and the whole place gets filled with smoke so thick you can't see what's in front of you. I love it!
There's also snake festival in Italy where people drape a statue of a saint with live snakes. This as you said is a leftover from pagan times when they worshipped a snake goddess.
Folk Catholicism is what most everybody practices. The % of Catholics who sit around and debate theology or the catechism like they do here on reddit is vanishingly small.
Something i just thought of too that could be lumped into it. There are criminal groups in Catholic countries who used catholic imagery and iconography to make a point. Like Santa Muerte among the cartel, or the Sicilian Mafia and its American counterpart doing things like burning a saint card with their blood on it to symbolize what will happen to their soul if they rat out the "family"
I like the story of Saint Guinefort. People would pray to a dog
What's the story of Saint Guinefort?
EDIT: Dang, just looked him up. It's literally just a dog that people venerated. Goodness, why does the Church suck so bad at suppressing heterodoxy?
According to wiki,
So it could have been that there were weak bishops or clergy and the people just carry on.
There could have even been strong bishops -- look at Medjugorje. The local bishops have condemned and yet it's still popular.
I think it's like whack-a-mole. Global church is gonna have a lotta moles to whack.
I think your theory about protestantism 'sharpening' Catholicism is a very interesting one.
And possibly very groundbreaking.
I agree also; the charge of 'idolatry' which is so frequently made when invoking the saints has in a sense perhaps made Catholics who are Americans less glib - and more Christocentric - when invoking them.
A very interesting theory indeed...
Wow, there's actually a wiki for this, same term and everything.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Catholicism
Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_Catholicism
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In my mind "folk" Catholicism is often the wide variety of practices tolerated by the educated Church in order to maintain control over large sections of the population, whereas frankly they could be criticized for superstition or even worse - but we tolerate the because they are mega-important to cultures or borderline orthodox, and practiced by the large majority of individuals.
Of course, today, folk Catholicism is very different from that in the past, as our society is from that in the past - people believe absolutely heterodox things about Catholicism as part of their own "folk belief," most egregiously vis-a-vis Communion or LGBT issues. the nature of the term has changed and I wonder if everyone has realized that.
It seems like a judgey point of view, but I do understand where you are coming from. For example, my Filipino friends still long to slaughter a chicken on some holy day or other, and do something or other with it's blood, which to them is a Catholic thing to do. They are a bit put out that this can't really be done in Australia. Then again, they are a real asset to our church, so who am I to judge? I'm not aware of any folk practices around the Communion of Saints, though.
It's not judgmental if the practice is idolatry. Somethings might be in a grey area, for example some cultural practices that go a little to far with the veneration of the blessed mother or a Saint.
But sacrificing an animal? What if Jeremiah or Isaiah thought that saying something about the asherahs or altars to Baal was "too judgey?"