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I've had about five massages at a chinese massage place that has been around for a number of years and has many positive reviews on yelp from men and women. The place was recommended to me by a female professional masseuse who said they were really good. I'm a male. The question I have is this: The massage is not perfunctory and the masseuses are talented (i've had three). However the way they drape you there is NO way that they are not at at least a few points during the massage able to see everything. Most of the lower portion of the face down massage is with no draping or the draping is near mid-thigh. They rotate your legs one at a time so that you are spread apart and really go at the inner thigh at that point of the massage. I don't feel that uncomfortable - but it's oddly unclothed. I've never had a chinese massage before this so there is no context for what is normal.
I need hard back massage for a previous injury and these are by far the greatest, firmest, most satisfying massages of my life - and the cheapest - so I'd rather not stop going. But i'm not looking for "adult services" either as I'm happily married and I'd rather not violate my relationship with my wife for a lame, awkward, for-hire "finish".
So the question is what's the normal amount of draping you get at a chinese massage place? And is this normal or am I just missing the signals?
It may seem a little awkward, but, maintain your professional composure & enjoy the deep work. I've had a couple massages from Asian bodyworks, sometimes, they cover my groin with about a washcloth size cover. But, it's never sexual.
BTW: "masseuse" is a term we do not like, that in itself has a negative sexual connotation. The professional term = Massage Therapist.
thanks didn't know that re:Massage Therapist.
As a male 11-year licensed massage therapist who has spent a month vacationing and receiving massage in Beijing, I can tell you every service I received there had draping very similar to what you described and did not involve any propositioning or inappropriate touch. This includes services received at 2 downtown five-star hotels, a 4-star hot spring resort, and several day spas in more suburb-like areas. On more than one occasion, the bodyworker adjusted my equipment to the other side (with the cloth acting as a contact barrier) in a nonchalant, professional way as to better access my quad attachments and adductors. My impression is that such draping and thorough work is both professional and expected in Beijing (and to certain extent, China as a whole). I've heard many similar stories from colleagues and teachers who have received massages outside the USA, especially France and Southeast Asia.
As for places that advertise "chinese massage" in the USA, I really have no first-hand professional knowledge on the subject.
That said, the norm and professional standard in the USA is to only undrape the areas that are immediately being worked on. There can be wiggle room on what "immediate" means in so far as some people will, for example, redrape the back before working on the arms while others will undrape both legs simultaneously (with a "diaper" drape). Strictly speaking, the draping you are describing is considered (at the very least) unprofessional by professional and licensing organizations in the USA.
Putting it another way, your questions touch on a very grey area for massage. Licensed massage therapists want to distance themselves and the profession from the sordid past of massage, when it was a code for sex-work. Due to this, they've had to decide on all kinds of things that are or aren't appropriate. Some of it is very common sense (don't bang your clients) while some of it is much more ambiguous (how to appropriately work the pectoral muscles on women.) In the end, hard lines have been drawn on certain things (like draping) as to err on the side of caution and safety, even if it is detrimental to individual client needs at times. Many professional western therapists will balk or blanch at the draping you describe and dismiss it as a sure sign of sketchy business without a second thought when in fact they're just repeating what has been hammered into them in school. Thus, what is deemed normal and what is actually safe and therapeutic can be two different things.
In your case, internationally it can be argued to be safe and normal. If you aren't getting the sketchy vibe, that's a very good sign. If your therapist is skilled at deep work, is knowledgeable, thorough, and presents themselves professionally, those all very good signs.
What are some possible not good signs? Long, fake finger nails. Low-cut shirts or exposed midriff. Heels. Skirts or dresses. Obvious makeup. Unsecured long hair, especially if it contacts your body during the massage. Open after 10 pm (unless attached to a hotel/resort/gym.) Neon signs. Vaseline containers and paper towels in the therapy room. Places with "chinese massage" or "asian massage" in their name. Heavily reinforced front doors. Laundry hung up in the alley. Multiple employees regularly relaxing in the alley.
Hope this helps. :)
that helps a lot. and the clothing the therapists wear is totally appropriate, and they're not open late. in fact nothing really sketch like that.
Is this normal for Chinese massage? Without knowing the technique used, I can't say how Chinese is your Chinese place. I studied tuina in China and learned to apply it on a fully clothed client. They even put a light sheet over them to protect the clothes and create an even surface.
Is this normal for other techniques? Not in traditional Swedish draping, but there are approaches and techniques (like Californian) that reveal more surface in their draping. Or maybe the therapist excel in technique, but lack draping knowledge (or don't care).
If you're a satisfied customer and have good results on your back injury, but the draping makes you uncomfortable, tell her about it. Most of us are happy to comply and adapt ourselves to make clients comfortable if it doesn't impede too much our work.
Is 'Californian' massage a thing??
Yes. It's a small offshoot of the common Swedish technique developed in the 70s by the Esalen institute when they combined Swedish with their esalen technique. It has an emphasis on fluidity and they have maneuvers that encompass different segments, staring at the cervical to go through the back and end at the leg for example, hence a different more permissive draping.
I see the technique as more adequate in relaxation rather than clinical "problem solving", but there is something to learn from its mechanical fluidity. While its energy, psychotherapy and "new age" part is dubious, it does have a remarkable knack to pacify a nervous system.
Firm? Liberal with draping?
Are you sure you aren't mistaken? sounds like a Korean establishment to me X)
Just going to chime in here with my experiences. I found a place like the OP has visited and had very similar experience. However, I left the traditional "American" massage places because they seemed to concerned with making sure they did nothing suspicious that I couldn't get a decent massage, especially on my glutes and hip area that are a real problem area, even after asking specifically for this.
The place I found sounds a lot like the OP. Everyone is dressed professionally, but you are only draped a with a bath towel and there are definite parts of the massage where you feel exposed, but nothing "seamy" has ever happened, and no "extra services" have ever been offered or implied.
I get a great massage without the therapist going out of the way to avoid touching certain areas (non-sexual areas) because they are worried about being sued or fired.
I have noticed that Japanese clients would often wear sleeveless undershirts and mid-thigh shorts to a massage. I had no problem with this.
I learned massage with clothed students working on native students (California, 1980's). I had no problem with this.
In the work I do now we ask clients to wear underwear or bathing suits. But in the Netherlands they undo a woman's bra to work on the sides or back where it blocks. Americans don't. I have no problems with any of that.
I went to a review evening class fromy original (remember "usetabe" naked, school. They did fancy draping with more than one sheet and legs individually artfully draped. I have considerable trouble with that.
That is why I don't do "massage" aka skin theater and relaxing work. This is because I don't have to prove I am not sexual. It is impossible to prove a negative and distracts from the purpose of the hour.
_I work on the entire body and like to see the resonances, even when I work on a part. I position the whole body carefully for the intention of each thing I do. I need to see and not get tangled up in sheets.
Now the politics of massage regulation which regulation means money changes hands - Millions, many, millions of it.
That is why I find it drastic and inappropriate and maney-grabbing for some national organization to try to be getting all skin-touch that is not already license to be subsumed under the label massage.
This way they get all the moneys for regulating it.
This way they get to say whose classes qualify for units and continuing units.
They get to certify the schools as well.
$$$
The training for the work I do only intesects with massage in part of the Anatomy classes. We learn much that they don't and vice versa. The need for a massage credential was a 120 hour interesting prelude. Now it is generally a $10,000 program.
Think of the cost and time.
I do Structural Integration and our umbrella organization, http://theiasi.net - The International Association of Structural Integrators, is working on our separate certification.
This is in a world where the police refuse to close sex workers of every kind who use the word massage and hide under the license. Shame on the police. Let the sex workers use other words!
-- edits no wall of text
I understand how you feel but I have to point out that the police are not sex trade regulators, the public are. An act has to be committed BEFORE the police are called. So, they have to catch people in the act of soliciting sex and that's hard to do when it's not in public view. So, my state allows a police officer access to a massage establishment or therapist at any time without getting a warrant. How would they know who to visit if someone doesn't tell them where to go and who to see? Let me give you a scenario...
You have an apparently legal massage establishment (one or more therapists working there) when all of a sudden a policeman shows up in uniform, walks past the admission desk and opens the doors to the massage rooms. He catches one therapist in an obvious illegal act of prostitution. He has the option to make an arrest at that time, but he has to have a witness. That witness could be someone on the premises who is reporting the suspected behavior (has witnessed it themselves in the past) or it could be another police officer. He could then start the procedures of gathering evidence (sheets, towels, log books) for the prosecution. The establishment becomes a crime scene.
Most sex shops are not licensed or recorded anywhere because that exposes them to people who do not want sex and will report them. Sex work and the sex trade is very obvious work and can not be hidden by just putting up a nice store front or allowing people to be massaged in the nude. The more people involved, the more risks of public exposure. Like people talking about it on the internet...
I call BS.
In Florida the police do. I am all for sex workers. Just don't use the word massage.
To be clear, in the state of Florida the massage people got their certification, registration, and licensing act together early. In Florida sex workers say body scrubs. The law is enforced.
Elsewhere, my guess is good old payoffs.
And yes, that is why I talking about it on the internet. Stipe the sex workers from working under the title of massage professionals.
This isn't entirely true. I did the IPSB program in the mid 80s (and later attended the Rolf Institute and Guild as well). The training in the IPSB 120 hr massage program included many things that directly translated into the IPSB Structural Integration program. Along with anatomy the deep tissue intro in the 120 course was directly applicable to the contact skills later taught in the SI program.
I think that people get really confused when people who claim that their special bodywork isn't massage post on massage therapy forums.
Man, you seem really conflicted over apparently nothing. You say that this place has been around a long time without getting shut down and other therapists referred you. Then you say the massage is optional...so that means you go for other services besides massage. But you get the massage because it's good for you and recommended for you by another therapist BUT if your wife found out a petit asian lady is massaging your inner thigh and looking at your private zone every once in a while...SHE may not like it. So SHE will probably never go there nor will you tell her about this? Okay. Fine with me... And you assure us you're not a pervert. Great! "Chinese Massage Place" does not automatically mean "happy ending place". If it did, they would be shut down. As far as the cultural differences, there's a TON of differences and you've only outlined one. They also let their toddlers crap in the street, so no need for diapers! Not okay in the US, but okay in China. If all this is going down in California, then I don't see anything to worry about...We may even envy you a bit...but if it's going down in my state, it shouldn't. They require full draping of parts not massaged at all times. I know how to cover up a person, like a sheet diaper, so i won't see their privates. And I wouldn't see any problems with you requesting the Chinese lady to do the same thing.
my wife told me to keep going bro