Charles Manson is probably one of the most well-known serial killers in the world (who never actually murdered anyone with his own hands). Still, just in case you need a memory jog: He’s the creepy guy who started a cult that killed seven people in the 1960s. Not only has his gruesome story been told in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, but it’s also been a focal point of Mindhunter season 2...with the same actor!

Somehow, Manson, who was known for preying on underage girls, has been married several times. Frankly, though, it’s impossible to know exactly how many biological children he actually has, but three have been confirmed. Unsurprisingly, all have changed their names in order to avoid association with the cult leader. So, who are they and where are they now?

Charles Manson, Jr.

According to the KCBS special report The Manson Children, Charles Jr. was born in 1956 to Rosalie Jean Willis. Oh, and Willis was only 15 years old when they got married just one year earlier. Willis ended up divorcing Manson while he was in jail in 1958 for stealing a car and going on a little road trip from Ohio to California. She remarried a man named Jay White, and her son ended up changing his name to match his new stepfather’s.

The second Jay White sadly committed suicide in 1993, and his son told CNN that he believes it was because of his biological father.

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Charles Luther Manson

Manson was married a second time to Leona Rae Stevens, until he was indicted on sex trafficking charges in 1960. The two divorced in 1963, which is when Stevens revealed she gave birth to Manson’s second son, Charles Luther Manson.

There’s little info out there about Manson’s second namesake, TBH. He’s changed his name and has remained very private about his life, which, obviously, we get.

Valentine Michael Manson

Manson had his third son with Mary Brunner, who was one of the first members of the Manson Family. Brunner became known as Mother Mary within the cult, and in 1968, she gave birth to Valentine Michael, who they called Pooh Bear.

Brunner’s parents got custody of Valentine after she was arrested for credit card fraud and involved in a police shootout in 1971. They renamed him Michael Brunner when he was just 18 months old, and he ended up living in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, with his grandparents.

Manson apparently sent him letters, which Michael said he has never read.