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Central Luzon language Original Extent

Linguistics, Philology, and Etymology: "History of Words/Terms"
r/FilipinoHistory - Central Luzon language Original Extent
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Edited

This is supported by earlier writings like LA Reid's ("Early Switch Hypothesis, 1987") which he demonstrated actually by studying languages of the Aetas.

My post here on the "Original Languages of the Aetas" from 2020.

Tldr: summary on some of the theories (mostly early writings by Reid) ie how many of the Aetas orig. adopted a Central Luzon language before the expansion of the Central PH languages (Bisaya, Tagalog, etc.) out of Mindanao* (which brought those languages to Visayas and Luzon).

Thus a lot of the Aeta languages in the Visayas/Central Islands have an affinity with an older form of Central Luzon language (ie Sambalic and Kapampangan) despite being surrounded by C. PH languages (ie "Visayan" languages).

*The hypothesis about how Central PH languages (found in S. Luzon, Visayas, Mindanao, and Northern Moluccas) originally expanded from Mindanao: "Greater Central PH Expansion" by Blust, 1991.

The Mindoro bit there is from the "Iraya" group, a northern Mangyan group. This lone "Mangyan" group (almost all other Mangyan groups speak a language similar to the languages of C. PH family ie similar to Bisayan languages) have a quirk in that they speak a language that has a strong affinity towards the Central Luzon language. They also have, though much less, like the Hanunuoo strong genetic link to an earlier Aeta ancestry.*

*The genetic study published in Nature, 2010 I linked on the 2020 post.

Edit: Because the PDF of Reid's bit about Iraya having affinity to Central Luzon languages link was wiped out, here's Liao, 2018 talking about the same exact thing. He also note Aeta connection, albeit he didn't cite the genetic studies I quoted, he mostly went about this comparing Aeta languages in Luzon with the Iraya language (linguistic comparison).

Central Luzon language family (Sambalic, Kapampangan) has a strong connection with Aetas. In fact, Sambals who were "not" Aetas (they likely some groups intermarried and have strong cultural and economic relationships with the Aetas of the Bataan / Mariveles / Zambales mountain region) in the early colonial period were highly connected to the Aetas residing in those mountains. In some accounts, groups of Sambal and Aeta allies would work in tandem to do raids (ambush and headhunting). To the point, in some writings, the "bellicose" Sambals were confused as being Aetas by early Spanish writers.

Last night I read a pdf posted here about Tagalog and Visayan history. Can you send me more links I can access?

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This left its mark on areas of Southern Tagalog that have Kapampangan names.

Macalelon, Quezon, for instance is actually Macalilung, Kapampangan for "being under the shade".

Sariaya, Quezon, is "Saddia ya", Kapampangan "It is ready".

Those are the ones at the top of my head.

Edited

I reiterate that it is interesting that Central (Naga) Bikol has Kapampangan-like words not found in Tagalog or other Bikol languages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Bikol. This may mean that the Kapampangan language or a closely related or ancestral language reached at least Camarines Norte and even up to Camarines Sur.

There's even the word "tukaw" in Bikol Central, which is suspiciously close to Ilocano "tugaw".

The Zorc paper cited by OP includes "Southern Luzon" languages as a possible influence on Tagalog, mentioning that this is a "Northern Philippine" group. Not explicitly Cordilleran, which Ilocano is. But still

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u/Stock_Coat9926 avatar

This is Pangasinan erasure

Considering the closeness of Pangasinan to Ibaloi, I think the Pangasinan language hearth area (where it developed) is more northerly than its present area.

There are still no studies on the influence of Central Luzon languages on Pangasinan. Might be really interesting.

u/Stock_Coat9926 avatar

It’s a shame since it’s one of the major languages in the country. I feel like Ilocano gets more attention in this part of the country.

Pangasinan and Ilocano peoples also have some history of conflict, as evidenced in the slurs they use towards each other

I agree, it's one of the least studied major languages. Along with Ibaloi. There should be more research into how these two languages are related, and how they relate to Ilocano.

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[deleted]
[deleted]

Pangasinans are the Ibalois we chucked down the river, so we Ibalois say. Not sure if that was true, but the bigger likelihood is that Ibalois were the people who left the flat places to find a quieter life in the mountains.

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Edited

As a linguist by training and someone picking up that language it was making me wonder where that language comes in here. It is much wider spread than people seem to think. I’ve heard people using it that surprise a lot of people who speak the language.

Then again I’m also cautious about this kind of analysis generally.

u/Stock_Coat9926 avatar

I’m a Pangasinan speaker so I can attest to the fact that this language is dying. Even within Pangasinan province, Ilocanos are slowly taking over a lot of different parts which is contributing to the decrease of Pangasinan speakers.

I don't know about it taking over. I just know that in the province my handle refers to, many people speak the language but it's not taught in schools. No church services in the language either. That's a recipe to kill a language. I haven't seen an interest in preserving the language from these same people but they sure do love swearing in it!

u/balista_22 avatar
Edited

Pangasinan & Ibaloi were once one people from central cordillera and moved down south with the Pangasinan going all the way down the Agno river (at least according to the Ibalois)

yeah I know some older Pangasinan people who left for Manila many decades ago & they all told me when they went back to visit recently they can't even speak their language around their hometown anymore as many of the Pangasinan speaking towns are now Ilocano/"Ilocano na"

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wow that's quite the reach

u/Cobid-ninetin avatar

Could be wrong here. It’s late & I’m a bit tired so maybe I didn’t read thing right. But didn’t Tagalog language came from Visayan languages? Because of that theory I thought Mangyan languages would be the same. I thought Mangyan languages came from the Visayas and was influenced by Luzon languages later on.

there two groups of mangyan the one on the south which is part of greater central philippine

while the northern mangyan group is only MAYBE part of the central luzon languages but as of now its have there own linguistic group

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Edited

The Central Luzon group East of the Kapampangans are called as Tagarugs, and the people south of the Tagarugs in south of Pasig that spoke Central or Visayan languages are called as Comintana or Kumintang so Tagalog does not exist before the Spanish.

is there a link about the tagarugs?

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Edited

Bulacan and Bataan were resettled by the Spanish from the people from the South and it is even talked about historically.

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The boundary of Sambals and Pangasinan is the Agno River.

What could probably its relationship with (hypothetical) proto-Philippine language?