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Criticism on the Bullies (and how to improve them)

This post is basically what works about the bullies, and what doesn't. It's going to be relatively long, so there's a tl;dr at the end. Feel free to give feedback or start a discussion in the comments about anything here. I'm open to criticism.

To start, why is there 5 bullies? In every "bully girls in High School" movie like The Plastics in Mean Girls and the Heathers in Heathers (I'll be using these two specific examples in this post), there are three bullies since they sort of resemble a "Mighty Triumvirate". It's a uniform number for a special clique or group. Having 5 doesn't make sense, especially when Kashiko and Hana are boring and are just filler characters. More on that later.

Musume Ronshaku

The almighty. She's The Mythic B*tch/Queen Bee/Apex Predator. However, she doesn't really come off as one. She's popular, but doesn't do anything. She constantly keeps to herself. Wouldn't she maybe go looking around for targets? In Heathers, Heather Chandler forces Veronica to forge a note as a sick prank. In Mean Girls, Regina doesn't really do anything, but she makes it abundantly clear she's in charge - through wearing trendy clothes or social sabotage/plastic and fake interactions.

"Oh my god, I LOVE your skirt! Where did you get it?"

"U-uh..it was my mom's in the eighties..."

"Vintage! SO adorable!"

"Thanks!"

"...that is the ugliest effing skirt I've ever seen-"

I mean..we KNOW Musume is the leader. But she doesn't do anything to SHOW that. If you're the most popular girl in school and have dozens of friends, Musume doesn't gaslight you into backing down, or force you to join her clique, being threatened by a possible new leader. She overall does nothing. Let's say you never gossiped about anyone in your entire gameplay. So...10 weeks and no drama? No bullying? Nothing...????

Hoshiko Mizudori

The next trope in line is the "Jealous/insecure one", or the one who's always being crushed by the leader. Examples are Gretchen Weiners, who has lost her sense of belonging until she's practically a slave to Regina, and Heather Duke. In Heathers, Duke is often being told to "Shut up, Heather!" and doesn't really get to have a say in anything. Since Hoshiko is easily the cruelest bully, I can see how this can come into play. Maybe Musume puts Hoshiko down in order for her not to get too "sadistic" or "power-hungry". She's being crushed and verbally harrassed by Musume so she doesn't show her real self. Maybe Hoshiko secretly resents Musume for not letting her be herself and restricts everything that does. In terms of Gameplay, this would be easy. Make Hoshiko the leader of the bullies after Musume is gone. (Funny enough, Heather Duke and Hoshiko both share the same colour - Green. For envy and evil respectively.)

Heather McNamara. A girl who's in the Heathers just to "float above it all" and not "When I say the wrong thing, or I wear the wrong outfit - they'll throw me right over the side!" and be cast into the "raging black ocean" of high school. She doesn't really do anything too cruel; maybe one or two harsh jabs or comments but not any physical harassment or threatening. Once the bullying is directed at HER though, the "cruel" facade drops. She instantly breaks, falling into depression and attempting suicide, but thankfully failing.

This. Is. Kokoro.

I only have two things to say. Since Kokoro is supposedly nicer than the rest, here's some simple gameplay additions you could make. Pick any of them. 3, 4 and 5 seem the easiest, so I recommend doing so. (I actually made a Pose Mod cutscene on 2, 3 and 5. Expect a post tomorrow or something~)

  1. In terms of bullying, why not make Kokoro's "bully laugh" animations tamer, or make her write the least cruelest things on the victim's desk? Or maybe not write anything at all?

  2. Maybe after a bullying session, she goes to the bathroom and cries.

  3. Or maybe she might think/sulk to herself on the rooftop like Miyuji does?

  4. Make Kokoro talk to the victim once the other bullies are gone.

  5. Even simpler: Make Kokoro's walk animations the "Bullied" walk for the rest of Lunchtime.

The other thing is, why not make Kokoro revert to her old self once Musume (and/or Hoshiko) dies? The leader, or the glue, is gone. The bullies could easily break up then. However, if Hoshiko becomes the leader, Kokoro is the one being put down since Hoshiko finally gets to have power - and doesn't want anyone else to have it. If Hoshiko is killed THEN, maybe Kokoro will decide enough is enough, and becomes her old self. I don't see why killing 4 specific students just to see one change their appearance is something you want. Maybe just kill the Leader and the next-in-line.

There. You've got the three perfect bully stereotypes.

Hana and Kashiko

Let's face it: They're forgettable. We've already got the Leader, cruel one, and kind one. These two are just filler that don't really matter. You could toss the "instigator" aspect to Musume (Again, repetition: leaders LEAD stuff and start drama. I don't see why some random clique member has to do it.) The "inferiority complex" thing...isn't that technically Kokoro? If you were to look at it THIS way, Kashiko is a watered-down character cut from a part of Musume's personality, and Hana is the same but for Kokoro. If you kept Kashiko and Hana, they'd just seem like robotic clones of Musume - just with different accessories and hair.

My solution is to remove Hana and Kashiko from the bullies. If one/two of the three main bullies disappear, they might change their appearance and try to join. Maybe they're just "desperate wanna-be's" that don't make the cut to join unless something drastic happens.

Lastly, their clique names. We've already acknowledged how "The Bullies" is simply a fanbase nickname for them. But what DO the students call them?

"We call those three 'The Plastics' - they're shiny, fake and hard." Why Regina, Gretchen and Karen are called the Plastics.

"Aah, Heather, Heather, and Heather~ And then there's the 'Heathers' - they float above it all." Heather Chandler. Heather Duke. Heather McNamara. All three of their first names are Heather. So they're called "Heathers".

tl;dr: Only have Musume, Hoshiko and Kokoro as bullies. Make Musume act like a leader. Make Hoshiko leader after Musume dies. Make Kokoro revert to her old self after Musume (and/or Hoshiko) dies. Also make Kokoro ACT nicer in-game and showing real remorse from bullying. Remove Hana and Kashiko from the bullies, but allow them to join if any of the three existing bullies disappear. Also, give them a real clique name the students call them.

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u/CuriousKokonachan avatar
Edited

I made this post earlier but didn't censor b*tch in "Mythic B*tch", causing the post to get autodeleted in seconds. And the mods didn't even respond. Seriously don't get why we can't say b*tch if

  1. Yandere Simulator is not for kids and is specifically for mature audiences.

  2. It isn't even directed at anyone.

u/Wafran avatar

I'm completely with you, S*it!, I would really love some of the characters in school to curse and, why not, we could make the bullies smoke in the bathroom during cleaning time while they gossip. I mean, it was the first task from Musume. The task for one of them could be just that task re-used.

[deleted]
[deleted]
Edited

I approved your post. You have to keep in mind that we have to approve posts manually and that can take some time. I'm not sure about the censor issues. As far as your post goes, it's very well written but the name "Bullies" Just fits them in my opinion and we've known them as such for quite some time. Other than that, I suppose these are nice features.

Edited

Why is it necessary to manually approve posts? It gives you the ability to only show posts that the mods like.

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[deleted]
[deleted]

It is bc even tho ppl may know bad words they don't like to say it

probably not just that, a bot probably also thought the post had high profanity, but we can easily fix that.

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I saw your reply before, I was busy with irl and I do apologize a lot for that,

By time I went to check this post it was already approved, sorry about that. really.

I think it's considered rude just saying Randomly or directed at someone.

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Comment deleted by user

u/UrFavoriteBlondeGurl avatar
Edited

Interesting, but aside from Musume, Hoshiko and Kokoro, only Hana could also work with her story...I mean we'll have Musume: the leader, due to her father's money Hoshiko: evil one, due to her personality and even some psychological issues Kokoro: cute/shy one, due to really being into bullying and only hanging out with them bcoz of the fashion and looks. Hana: airhead one... May be pretending to be like that... Kashiko: funny/mature one(?

Btw the "it's just a prank" or "oh we're just helping horuda" is something that Musume can say as the leader trying to justify her and her friend's actions. They don't need a specific member to "protect" them... It's just odd and weird, I mean they're not kids.. Also why would kashiko intentionally blame herself if she also knows she can be expelled??

Now, talking about their OFFICIAL information, Kashiko and Hana are both pretty similar. Based on what we know, Hana developed an inferiority complex, that means she's insecure of her appearance, her intelligence, her personality and everything. Meanwhile Kashiko was bullied bcoz of her mixed race parents that gave her a dark skin tone... See? Their backstory it's pretty the same. I personally think that Hana is the most suitable for the position since she's insecure of EVERYTHING about herself meanwhile Kashiko is only insecure about her skin color.

Edit: maybe we can put Kashiko but as the innocent one... Tho she would still be similar to Hana..

Final conclusion: Musume: the leader Hoshiko: evil one, due to her personality and even some psychological issues. Kokoro: Fashionista/prettiest of them all Hana: airhead but funny one Kashiko: innocent/sweet and cute one

u/Wuff_the_Dog avatar

I like the concept of giving the bullies more distinct personalities, however, I don't think removing two of the bullies is a very good idea. Every group has a base of five in the game (except for the loners), so making a group of 3 would be really odd and put of place. And they all don't have to be Heathers or Mean Girls references; Hana could be more of a cyber bully, and Kashiko is more of a prank youtuber than a heartless teen.

u/CuriousKokonachan avatar
Edited

You still gotta admit: Hana and Kashiko don't have a lot of personality compared to the other three. Wouldn't having three in a group actually stand out, though? Having 5 students in a clique or club can be seen as the "average". Since the bullies stand out and float above it all, they could have three members.

Musume = Leader, spoilt brat.

Hoshiko = Downright cruel and evil.

Kokoro = Nice and Kind.

Hana = uhh...insecure?

Kashiko = it's just a prank bro

Yeah, they still don't have obvious personality. Keeping them in the bullies would make them come off as Musume clones but with different hair and accessories. Just another excuse for "girl patrolling the 1st and 2nd floor" instead of real characters with distinct personalities. Plus, I didn't say to remove them from the game. I suggested removing them from the BULLIES, but let them join if any of the existing three disappeared.

Their current routines would be the same, really. The only difference is their appearance. They'll just have their pre-ganguro appearances before joining. Essentially, nothing changed other the two of them not walking to school with the three bullies.

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[deleted]

I like the idea of the bullies having their pre ganguro look before forming a group. Here is an example : They look stunning

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u/yourhanaa avatar

I don't wanna put any words into op's mouth but - I don't think they wanted the bullies to be a reference to Mean Girls and Heathers. They referenced them in this post to make a comparison, but I don't think they proposed to make the bullies be a flat out reference of them. Also, making Hana a cyber bully and Kashiko act like a prank youtuber won't make them any more necessary, in my opinion. Changing the way they bully people won't make them more important, it just changes the way they act. I don't know how much removing Kashiko and Hana from the bullies would work overall, but op's idea on Hoshiko, Kokoro and Musume being the only bullies works really well and I think it can work. Story-wise it makes it a lot more interesting to learn about the bullies, instead of, "this one acts like this, this one acts like this, and this one is the leader and acts like this", but I know YD probably didn't have that much time to spend fleshing out the girls and making their story more rounded-out so I can see why it happened.

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u/YumiGumiWoomi avatar

This seems way too much like Heathers for it to actually work out.

Musume doesn't need to bully Hoshiko just because it happened in Mean Girls and Heathers. It would make a lot more sense if she respected her fellow bullies because she sees them as equals.

Hoshiko likes the other bullies because she can be herself around them. Her resenting Musume like Heather Duke did wouldn't make sense because that would mean her cruelty would be built up rather than already there. Sure, if she hypothetically was the leader, her victims would have scars, but she shows no signs of wanting to lead the bullies at all. Hoshiko is content where she is and making her a more evil Heather Duke would just come off as a poorly done rip-off.

For Kokoro, I think that her crying in the bathroom is a bit excessive. Say if the player didn't know Kokoro's past, it would be extremely confusing on why she just runs off to sob. And we don't need to have a "kind bully" because those words are two different things entirely. Kokoro isn't a good person at all and she doesn't deserve to have sympathetic moments if the others don't too. Or, at the very least, the player should learn about them by talking to Kokoro rather than them being displayed immediately.

Also, why drop Hana and Kashiko? Every group in Yandere Simulator has five members, so having three bullies would look out of place. Aren't they the Gretchen and Karen of the group? One works as the dumb-but-loveable sidekick and the other the insecure follower? Making the characters just be Heathers spin-offs would only make people who know about Heathers confused on why they're being heavily referenced in Yandere Simulator and people who don't confused on where all the dynamics came from.

[deleted]
[deleted]

It is true that Hana and Kashiko are a bit forgettable but they need somebody to guard the other floors I guess

u/Wafran avatar

This... is too complex... TOO complex for such a minor feature. They are all exactly the same and that's sorta-kinda a bad thing, but this is just... TOO MUCH. This could be a mod, a really really good one to mess around with, but it is SO MUCH it would be huge, and the game would suddenly turn into a "Bully simulator"

And plus... they are 5 because there are 5 areas of the school they need to patrol.

"They are mechanics first and characters second"

~YandereDev

u/SearchNo132 avatar

Just no.