50# Oil......gear oil, motor oil? For band saw transmission.

Mohawk Dave · May 8, 2017

Hi All,

I picked up a Leten LCM 300A metal bandsaw. Taiwan, 1" capacity.

Anyway, doing a refurb, and the manual calls out for "50# Oil" in the reducer transmission, which appears to be a worm gear.

Is this calling out for 50 gear oil, 50 engine oil, or ??? (50 gear oil is like 5wt engine oil, right?)

And the air pump calls out for 20# oil, so same question here.

Thanks!

Wild West · May 8, 2017

If it goes in the transmission it is a light gear oil.

JRIowa · May 8, 2017

My suggestion is to first get a manual. IIRC, somebody was selling them on ebone.

Do not use motor oil or any other automotive lubricant no matter what others say!!!
I'm thinking that the number probably refers to a manufactures product number like "Vactra #2" The gearbox is probably going to take between an ISO 68 and an ISO 150 gear oil. The air pump, probably an ISO 32, R&O hydraulic oil. If you can get a manual and get me the brand name, I can cross reference almost anything.
JR

sfriedberg · May 8, 2017

Since they are calling out 20 and 50, I'd assume they are using SAE motor oil viscosities, not SAE gear oil viscosities, and also not ISO viscosities (32, 46, 68, etc). "50wt" is a very, very common designation for manual transmission oils, for what that's worth.

I'd choose a "50wt" manual transmission oil or a 75-80 gear oil. Avoid sulfur and phosphorus anti-wear additives (because worm may be bronze). I don't think you need a GL-5 oil for this application, and probably not an oil with extreme-pressure additives. A synthetic manual transmission oil of "50wt" would probably be fine.

johansen · May 9, 2017

sfriedberg said:
I'd choose a "50wt" manual transmission oil or a 75-80 gear oil. Avoid sulfur and phoshorus anti-wear additives (because worm may be bronze). I don't think you need a GL-5 oil for this application, and probably not an oil with extreme-pressure additives. A synthetic manual transmission oil of "50wt" would probably be fine.

might want to print this:

http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/Backup_200107_viscosity_table_2.gif

so anyhow, it seems they have gone away from sulphur and phosphorus additives for GL-5 oil.. so if the manufacturer says its safe for brass synchronizers, it might be. or it might be "safe" but they still wear quicker. "buffered sulfur" (yeah, right.)

or just find some non detergent 15w-50 oil?

steve-l · May 9, 2017

johansen said:
might want to print this:

http://media.noria.com/sites/archive_images/Backup_200107_viscosity_table_2.gif

so anyhow, it seems they have gone away from sulphur and phosphorus additives for GL-5 oil.. so if the manufacturer says its safe for brass synchronizers, it might be. or it might be "safe" but they still wear quicker. "buffered sulfur" (yeah, right.)

or just find some non detergent 15w-50 oil?

That's really bad advice. No motor oil should every be used in a gear case, because all motor oils have detergent packages and included in these packages are dispersants that keep foreign particulate in suspension so that they can be removed via the oil filter. In machinery gearboxes, particulates are expected to settle out of suspension by natural sedimentation.

johansen · May 9, 2017

steve-l said:
That's really bad advice. No motor oil should every be used in a gear case, because all motor oils have detergent packages and included in these packages are dispersants that keep foreign particulate in suspension so that they can be removed via the oil filter. In machinery gearboxes, particulates are expected to settle out of suspension by natural sedimentation.

that's why i said non detergent oil.

plastikdreams · May 9, 2017

gotta love the chinglish...always good for a chuckle.

6PTsocket · May 10, 2017

When I rebuilt my wood/metal cutting Delta/Rockwell 14" band saw I faced the same question you are asking. I found the Mobil SHC series of synthetic gear box oils. The 600 series spec says they provide superior worm gear protection and for gears and bearings at high and low temps. This is not a general purpose oil that you are adapting, it is gear case oil and made for worm gears. I don't remember how I arrived at the viscosity I used but I have SHC 634 that has a. ISO viscosity of 460. I don't think this is anything like SAE because it is a pourable liquid, though pretty thick. It is available down to ISO 32. I remember that Grainger was the only place that had it in c the left over bottle so I just got it to see what I had used. I remember something about this one being better for worm gears and and another one for spur gears. Talk to the lubrication experts.

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sjsczar@aol.com · Feb 20, 2022

Dave Mohawk, would you happen to have the manual for the leten 300a? Thank you, Sam

HappyWyo · Feb 20, 2022

The 50# is a reference to the weight. My Cessna airplane calls for 30# non detergent oil or also called 30# straight mineral oil. They used to use simple terminology years ago. Now each company puts a complicated name on it because of all thier proprietary additives. You don't need additives in your saw but the additives won't hurt because you won't reach temperatures that break them down. Airplane oils aren't even allowed additives because of the potential of additive build up do to high engine temps in an air cooled engine. The best oil you can buy is the purest oil. Straight mineral oil.

boslab · Feb 20, 2022

Is that 20/50 engine oil by chance?
Mark

HappyWyo · Feb 20, 2022

boslab said:
Is that 20/50 engine oil by chance?
Mark

20/50 10/30 etc. Are just multiweight oils. They put together more than one weight of oil to get a multiweight. But if you are asking specifically about my oil it is straight 30. But I have used both. The reason for multiweight is to accommodate high temperatures and low temperatures. If you have ever drained 30 weight oil at 10 below fahrenheit or lower you know it is so thick it will hardly drain. We used to drain the oil from our crankcase take it in the house put it on the stove until it was hot, put it back in the engine and start it up. The multiweight oil was suppose to eliminate that step. If we had hot coals we would sometimes put a pan of coals under the oil pan, but obviously that is a little dangerous.

john.k · Feb 20, 2022

Use a hydraulic oil...these are easy to find in small quantities.............As to specialized worm gear oils....these oils are made for extra heavy loads like worm gears in winches or bronze gear truck back axles.......no worm drive in a bandsaw would ever approach the loads special worm oils are made for......has anyone on this forum ever seen a truck with a worm drive axle ?...Once very common as the bronze wheel had good resistance to tooth breakage in shock loading.

JohnEvans · Feb 20, 2022

john.k;3....has anyone on this forum ever seen a truck with a worm drive axle ?...Once very common as the bronze wheel had good resistance to tooth breakage in shock loading.[/QUOTE said:
Sure have !! Timken SQW ! Still fairly common in the 60s . Real easy to get high reduction ratios with them.

CalG · Feb 20, 2022

I use UTTO* in every gearbox that doesn't need Extreme Pressure additives.
No issues.

* Universal tractror transmission oil

Transmissions, hydraulic pumps, valves and cylinders, locking differentials, ring and pinion, clutches wet brakes and more.

I've read there have been test using the stuff for engine oil, without failures, but couldn't sell the idea to the car mfg. so it died.

akajun · Feb 21, 2022

This, good stuff use it in my Kalamazoo gearbox as a replacement for steam cylinder oil. Brass/ copper/bronze safe.

6PTsocket said:
When I rebuilt my wood/metal cutting Delta/Rockwell 14" band saw I faced the same question you are asking. I found the Mobil SHC series of synthetic gear box oils. The 600 series spec says they provide superior worm gear protection and for gears and bearings at high and low temps. This is not a general purpose oil that you are adapting, it is gear case oil and made for worm gears. I don't remember how I arrived at the viscosity I used but I have SHC 634 that has a. ISO viscosity of 460. I don't think this is anything like SAE because it is a pourable liquid, though pretty thick. It is available down to ISO 32. I remember that Grainger was the only place that had it in c the left over bottle so I just got it to see what I had used. I remember something about this one being better for worm gears and and another one for spur gears. Talk to the lubrication experts.

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50# Oil......gear oil, motor oil? For band saw transmission.

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