Wikipedia:WikiProject Actors and Filmmakers/Consensus summaries

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Consensus/discussion summaries[edit]

Succession boxes[edit]

Succession boxes discussion

What are people's opinion on those, to me excessive, succession boxes about awards. Previous winner, next winner etc. Previous Q (James Bond), next Q etc etc. Compare this with this. Which one is better? Garion96 (talk) 18:01, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

I never use any of this crap that's supposed to facilitate navigation. Who would? It's overwhelming. Plus it's buried under a whole column of unnecessary detail: even now there's approximately ten screenfuls of crap separating the logical end of Streep's article from the bottom of the page. Re the succession boxes, you realise that if we outlaw those there's going to be a load more navboxes created in their stead, right? Unfortunately it's a lot easier to create a navbox than it is to get rid of one. Personally I don't see why a navbox grouping all best actress oscars between 1961 and 1980, say, is better than a simple link to a complete list of winners, but such is the obstinacy of the editor set on pushing his particular interests into every conceivably related topic, and he's adopted the navbox as his polluter of choice. It's not even as if this practice is confined to the more vulgar areas of interest, just look how we treat Winston Churchill or Julius Caesar. You sometimes come across pages where all the navigation cruft is nested into a single show/hide box. I'd like to see that happen more often. Flowerparty 19:17, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm not a fan of those inane succession boxes at all. My distaste for the excessive use of those only is seconded by the nav templates. These awards are linked in the article, they are linked in the filmographies of the majority of articles now and these just seem to me like overkill. Then again, I have no idea why anyone would want to use more than one nav template for one award. Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:24, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I don't understand why the awards use the succession boxes. After all, next years winners don't succeed this years winners, they just get next years award. As for the "Next Q" business, I tend to agree with having navboxes for television or film roles that are notable for having many different actors (e.g. James Bond, The Doctor) but don't see the point of doubling up the info with a succession box as well. Bradley0110 (talk) 20:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Good point, and one which I've overlooked. I actually did see one not long ago that indicated in the next year's space "incumbent". Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:56, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Bleurgh! Bradley0110 (talk) 21:45, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Even for Q I don't see much point. It already is/should be mentioned in article text, in the filmography section, (probably a category as well) and then also a succession box? Garion96 (talk) 21:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
Sorry for the confusion, I mean Q shouldn't have an s-box or n-box (only two actors have played him for goodness sake). Bradley0110 (talk) 07:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
No, it was clear enough, I just misread your comment. Garion96 (talk) 08:00, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I think Meryl Streep was a good example to choose, and I greatly prefer it without the succession boxes. I detest the succession boxes. I feel that they look untidy (as they are various sizes and take up a lot of space) and the clutter looks tacky and unprofessional. I don't see how they are useful. If you want to follow the succession of winners you have to load articles one by one. On the other hand if you go to the Academy Award for Best Actress page you can immediately go to any of the winners or nominees and you can avoid any you don't want to look at it. I'm all for making things easier, but the list page is about the easiest thing I can imagine, even easier than the navigation box because you can also click on the film if you wish. Rossrs (talk) 08:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
And why don't those navtemplates have the films?? That's precisely the reason I've never clicked on names in them, I click on the award page link. Wildhartlivie (talk) 09:38, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Agree. They should be fired. Why should we care who won the award the previous years.
But I must confess I often feel filmographies look too loaded with so many awards. Look at Meryl Streep, it's huge and confusing. I just don't get what films she got nominations for from, say, the BAFTA. You loose it in between. Isn't it better to organise awards per groups in separate tables, like it's done so nicely on the Angelina Jolie article? ShahidTalk2me 09:50, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Can't stand them and I see absolutely no value in them at all. Neither the ones for people, nor the ones for "top box office" often shoved on films. As Rossrs noted, they look unprofessional and tacky, and they just are not useful (and often remove them when I come across them). Frequently, especially for the film ones, the claim isn't even sourced in the article. I'd favor their firing across the board. -- Collectonian (talk · contribs) 13:33, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I never have understood the need for these boxes and wouldn't miss them if they were eliminated. LiteraryMaven (talkcontrib) 15:09, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I find that they really clutter the articles. Dr. Blofeld White cat 17:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

Julianne Moore is another good bad example. Much prefer a collapsable nav-box! Lugnuts (talk) 18:43, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Wow, complete agreement. What a novel thing!! Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:59, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I am as amazed as you are. :) Is there any specific MoS for this project to add this to? Or perhaps in Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines? Since usually, if you can't point to a specific page in an edit summary, you get reverted. Garion96 (talk) 20:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Not in specific, although it has been discussed a bit off project. I don't know if WP:FILM has a stance on this, but we could add it to the "to-do" list on the main page and link to this discussion as a reference, That's what was done with awards in the infobox. which I thought I had done, but have done now. That's also where we put the note about removing "_______ Award-winning" in the lead sentence. Wildhartlivie (talk) 21:32, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

(outdent) SOOOooo, folks. Should we go ahead and implement this decision? Wildhartlivie (talk) 01:32, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Would it have to be done manually? Bradley0110 (talk) 13:07, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm less than bot savvy, so I don't know if one could do that. They don't have a template. However, it's certainly something that can be put on a to-do list and be worked on in the same way that we've gone about removing awards from the infoboxes. I do that routinely while working on filmographies and awards in them. It's just one more step in my process, at any rate. Wildhartlivie (talk) 19:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
Implementing works for me. A link at the project page to this discussion then? Garion96 (talk) 20:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
That in an addition to the to-do list, I think. This time, I would prefer if someone else changed that! Wildhartlivie (talk) 20:36, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Filmography navbox templates[edit]

Filmography navbox discussion

At the templates for deletion discussions, it was noted that perhaps it would be beneficial to include a guideline here reflecting the wide consensus that actor filmography templates are not helpful additions. After being asked, I compiled links to the wide number of previous deletion discussions to delete these templates and I am posting them here for convenience and consultation.

What we have is from about a 3 year period, covering 18 separate template deletion decisions for 86 separate templates, all of which were deleted. I'd like to move forward with incorporating this consensus on our main page under guidelines. I think the overriding opinions include that they are redundant to the filmography and that if such templates were used routinely, we'd have a tremendous overabundance of such templates on film pages, which do not help anyone. Take for example the following films and the number of templates for prominent stars only.

Razzie Award templates[edit]

Razzie Awards discussion

See also[edit]

  • Actors by films - Mass deletion of categories at CfD, related to the actor navigation consensus, above.