Template:Did you know nominations/Åke Bonnier (clergy)
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- The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 21:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
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Åke Bonnier (clergy)[edit]
- ... that the Swedish bishop Åke Bonnier is a billionaire in Swedish kronor?
- Reviewed: Smilja Avramov
Created by Iselilja (talk). Self nominated at 19:41, 6 January 2014 (UTC).
Facts sourced by ref #5 "Curiculum Vitae" need reliable seondary source. Pls, provide. On the other hand, article and hook meet all the DYK requirements. Will be OK after supplying a better ref #5. --CeeGee 14:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you. It wasn't quite easy to find truly independent sources, but I have rewritten a bit now and added some new sources; allthough some of them are also published by the Church of Sweden (Svenska Kyrkan), like the CV was. I think it's acceptable to use information from employer about some basic CV facts that's not controversial. The information from the church site is more accurate and complete, than the more random information I can find in newspapers. So, I hope this is OK, but tell me of course if you still have concerns. The solution will then have to be to remove more info. Iselilja (talk) 23:45, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
- I've removed a repeating ref in the "Career" section's first paragraph. About the ref CV, well I'm really not sure. In this case, I need the help of an experienced editor. Hopefully, we can find someone quickly. Sorry for causing a delay. --CeeGee 09:21, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
- I see. The CV is published by the Church in Sweden, in relation to the bishop's election. There was similar information about the other candidates. There is a link to all the CVs in a Dagen article, under the headline: "Here you can read more about the Bishop candidates". So, I will say it's pretty vetted information. Anyway, I don't there is much information now that is solely based on the CV as ref; the article now for instances leaves out that he studied theology at University of Uppsala and simply says "studied thelology" since I could only find information about which university in the CV. But I think it is helpful to have it as an extra source because I actually consider it more accurate and complete than newspaper sources. Iselilja (talk) 09:02, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
- Hi Iselilja! Thank youReliable sources noticeboard for your comments. Pls note that I've asked someone for help on Jan 9. However, he missed my question and declared himself not compotent in this issue. Anyway, pls let me ask someone else, and be sure that I'm in the process. --CeeGee 13:09, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
- Great. An option is to ask at the Reliable sources noticeboard. Regards, Iselilja (talk) 13:20, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
- Thank you. It wasn't quite easy to find truly independent sources, but I have rewritten a bit now and added some new sources; allthough some of them are also published by the Church of Sweden (Svenska Kyrkan), like the CV was. I think it's acceptable to use information from employer about some basic CV facts that's not controversial. The information from the church site is more accurate and complete, than the more random information I can find in newspapers. So, I hope this is OK, but tell me of course if you still have concerns. The solution will then have to be to remove more info. Iselilja (talk) 23:45, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with using common sense here.
- 1: A CV for a high-profile individual like this, published at the website of a large and, generally speaking, reputable employer, such as the Church of Sweden, is unlikely to include anything that many other people likely to look at the CV would be able to spot as false. These "many other" include the employer as well as other people who are currently or have in he past applied for the same positions as Bonnier, worked with him or gone to school or university with him. Or, indeed, anyone with a grudge. (Anyone in a position of influence attracts grudges. Bonnier, because of his wealth and background, is probably even more likely to do so than your average Swedish bishop.)
- 2: There is nothing in the CV that looks suspicious or strange. He went to well-known private schools in Stockholm of the sort people of his social and economic background go to, he went to Uppsala to study theology, as have probably about 50% or possibly more of all Swedish-educated Church of Sweden clergymen (the rest having gone to Lund). He has had the kind of clerical positions in the Church that you would expect at this point in his career.
- 3: If you assume that secondary sources of the sort used in this article making the same or similar claims are truly independent in an intellectual sense, rather than just in the formal sense of being published by somebody other than Bonnier or the Church, you are being naïve. Journalists writing about Bonnier will almost certainly get their details about his career from the CV or from him personally. The only reason they would do otherwise would be if there was something there that looked suspicious and worth checking out. And there isn't. In fact, a hurried journalist with no specialist knowledge is far more likely to misunderstand something, and Wikipedia relying on such a source (rather than directly on the CV) would then perpetuate this misunderstanding.
But sorry, I forgot. This is Wikipedia, and in Wikipedia we go by inflexible rules. We are not supposed to use common sense. Just carry on and ignore everything I wrote. --Hegvald (talk) 02:12, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
