Jace Lacob: I’m Jace Lacob, and you’re listening to MASTERPIECE Studio.

Mrs. C is a devoted woman of faith. Long the housekeeper for the Grantchester vicarage, her commitment to her God is rarely in doubt.

CLIP

Will The ravens guard the Tower, the white cliffs shine at Dover, and Mrs C vims the sink.

Mrs. C I don’t need a fuss.

Will It’s all gonna be okay.

Mrs. C I’ve decided. I’m not gonna go through with the treatment.

Jace Her cancer diagnosis this season comes as a shock — to her, for certain, but also to the motley found family she’s assembled through the years, despite her best efforts otherwise.

CLIP

Geordie Thank you Mrs C. You’ve been an absolute Saint.

Mrs. C Nonsense.

Geordie No, really. Without you and Will…Been a rough year. But I would walk over hot coals to get any time back with Cathy and the kids.

Mrs. C  More time. It’s all we can hope for.

Jace Indeed, her decision to keep her diagnosis mostly hidden from Will, her husband, and her community is just one of many surprises Mrs. C reveals throughout this season.

CLIP 

Mrs. C I don’t have to do this if I don’t want to. I’ve had my time.

Will And you’ve plenty of time left. We will all be with you. God will be with you.

Mrs. C God is not there for me anymore.

Will Mrs C, you are a good, Christian woman-

Mrs. C You’re just a boy.  Trying to tell us all how to live.

Jace Tessa Peake-Jones returns to the podcast for a moving, meaningful conversation about what lies ahead for the prickly Mrs. C.

And this week, we are joined once again by Grantchester star, Tessa Peake-Jones. Welcome.

Tessa Peake-Jones Hello. Thank you. Thank you. It’s lovely to be here.

Jace Lovely to have you. I want to say, if series six was the year of Leonard, I have to say that series seven to me is the year of Sylvia. Your character is given a truly sensational storyline and you deliver a tour de force performance as Mrs. C. Did you know ahead of time that this would be such an emotionally grueling series for Mrs. Chapman?

Tessa That’s very kind of you to say all of that stuff first, thank you. No,  didn’t know. I mean, I knew the storyline was going to be that she was poorly, and there was going to be sort of, you know, emotional stuff, inevitably, in coping with that. But I mean, to be absolutely honest, every series since series one for all the characters has somehow had an emotional journey, although it’s, you know, murders and people getting bumped off in the lovely village of Grantchester, it is also and has always been sort of very emotionally involved. So this was yet another sort of extension, I felt, of of Mrs. C, Sylvia’s journey. Yeah. And in another branch of how she was going to have to cope with what had been thrown at her.

Jace I mean, as you say, she is living in the murder capital of the world in the the quaint village of Grantchester. I am curious, though, I mean, going into series seven, how did Daisy Coulam and the writers present what would be Sylvia’s overarching storyline? What sort of story beats did they tell you about in advance, beyond just that, she would be poorly?

Tessa Well, while we were filming series six, we were chatting, Daisy came to the wonderful, beautiful church in Grantchester, where obviously we do lots of church, churchy-servicey bits, because we were chatting on the pews and she said, ‘Oh, we’ve got some storylines coming up next series,’ which is now this one, series seven, I said, ‘Oh, yes, and anything, you know, interesting?’ And she said, ‘Well, you know, Mrs. C is going to have cancer.’ And that was it. And I went to her, and thought, ‘Oh, well, maybe she dies?’ you know, because you don’t know, do you? And I thought, ‘Oh, no, don’t say they’re getting rid of Sylvia, that would be awful.’ Anyway, I also thought, well, how wonderful, because although it’s obviously tragic for people in real life, it’s a fantastic emotional story. If you’re playing somebody who’s either had an accident or is ill because there’s so much more that you and your fellow actors can play, play around with and develop. So I was very excited by the whole idea as long as they didn’t kill her.

Jace Let’s take a step back. I want to look at the sort of the opening of this series. Leonard and Daniel have opened the Cherry Orchard Cafe with financial assistance from Jack and Sylvia, rather comically. Leonard sees the place as a sort of beat poet hang out and Mrs. C as more traditional English tea room.

CLIP

Mrs. C  Amazing what you can do with some old curtains and a pair of pinking shears!

Leonard It’s lovely. But it’s not quite the look I’m going for. The Cherry Orchard is a place for writers and intellectuals. When someone walks in it should feel like they’re in London, or New York, or Paris. And those places don’t do chintz.

Mrs.C Well Cambridge does. And cream teas. In a proper tearoom. Anything else, you might as well throw Jack’s money down the drain.

Jace What does Sylvia make of Leonard’s new endeavor, and how does she see her role within it?

Tessa Well, I think she’s very keen to support both of them, particularly given the struggles he’s had in the previous series and having to leave the church. But I don’t think she understands at all about this beat movement, and poetry set to sort of, you know, drum beats. She just can’t get any of that. And I think she feels because she and Jack have put money into it to support them, she’ll have a say in it. I think it’s two things, really. One is I think she sees herself working there with her pinny, getting to know young folk and serving them tea and scones. I think she thinks that’s going to be rather lovely. And the other thing is, I think she yes, she’d like it to be a very quaint English tearoom. That’s how she remembers these things in her youth. And when he keeps coming forward with, like, you know, oh, there’s going to be performance art on a little stage, she hasn’t got a clue. She doesn’t get that at all.

Jae I’m wondering, this arrangement has bound Leonard more tightly to the Chapmans in a different way, in a financial way. Do you think that Sylvia sees this as just a purely financial investment, or as a sort of make good for Leonard, or to put it a different way? How invested is Sylvia, let’s say, in finding him a new vocation, given what’s happened?

Tessa I think she’s very keen that this café take off for him. I think she sees that he’s got ideas, although she doesn’t understand them. But the very thought that he’s putting so much effort into it and, you know, working in the kitchens and serving the meals, I think she thinks it’s brilliant that he’s got all that energy and can actually have an alternative career in the village, because I think that was one of her worries about the last series was not only the awful things they went through was what was going to happen to him? Was he going to have to leave Grantchester? So I think for her, yes, of course, she, she and Jack have put in financially to enable it. But I think it’s much more the emotional connection between, well, her and her so-called adopted son, Leonard, in terms of supporting him and wanting him to do well at it.

Jace You call him her sort of so-called adopted son. I do want to say one of my favorite relationships in Grantchester is that between Mrs. C and Leonard, and they’ve had their ups and downs over the years, but series seven repositions them in such a beautiful way. There’s the scene where the doctor mistakenly believes Leonard is Sylvia’s son and she doesn’t correct him. Has she gotten to that point where she does see Leonard, as you say, as an adopted or surrogate son?

Tessa Most definitely. I mean, I think actually that’s been very subtly there, really since series one. And it’s just developed and developed as she has become more accepting of his homosexuality and trying to understand that world, that it makes him happy to be with Daniel. I think also that, yeah, the two of them have, I don’t think he’s probably had a very good relationship with his mother or his father in his youth. So I think for both of them, they fulfill that need for each other. He definitely, you know, is her, in her eyes, her so-called son. And so I think if she wasn’t going to the doctors with such a worrying dilemma, I think she would have almost been quite chuffed that he mistaken her him for her son. It’s only that at that time she’s so worried about what might be happening, but she doesn’t sort of correct it. But I think it is that yeah, she genuinely, this whole journey in series seven for the two of them is very much, isn’t it, about the support they offer each other. And I think for Leonard, you know, it’s the first time he can actually offer her the sort of emotional support and being a rock for her that I think he’s perhaps felt she’s been able to do for him in the past, but he hasn’t for her because she hasn’t had any dilemmas like this.

Jace No, that’s very true and he’s able to sort of, yes, be that foundation, that rock, as you say, that she has provided for him. I want to talk about some specific scenes in a bit, but I do want to dove in a little more deeply to that scene at the consultant’s office where Sylvia is told she’ll need radiation and a hysterectomy. The doctor is so sort of utterly lacking in compassion. And Sylvia seems to take it in rather stoically. How did you read that scene? Why is her reaction so blunted? Is she just in shock at that point?

Tessa I think actually we discussed this, Daisy and I, when she was writing this series and she said, ‘I’m going to put a scene in with a consultant because in the 50s, you know, particularly as a woman, particularly of an age like Sylvia, you were sort of broken goods now. You served your purpose.’ And she wanted that made clear that then doctors and consultants on the whole, would sort of write you off and they’d, you know, if you came in as us beyond middle aged, things like a hysterectomy, well, that’s nothing to them. You know, it’s seen quite coldly and quite bluntly. Nowadays that wouldn’t happen. But I think then it was very much more cut and dried and there wasn’t any emotion. There wasn’t any, ‘Well, what would happen if I don’t want to have…’ You weren’t given a choice. It was just, ‘This is what you do,’ and that’s it. And I think that was Daisy also wanting to make that comment about what the medical profession was like in the ‘50s and early ‘60s.

Jace I mean, she just says, you know, ‘Thank you, doctor.’ And that’s sort of it.

Tessa Yeah.

Jace it’s I think, as you say, sort of that is the only reaction sort of allowed to her in that moment. She can’t burst into tears. She can’t question it. She can’t do anything except sort of take it very stoically. The tension within that scene builds upon the earlier scene where Mrs. C tells Leonard about what’s going on, that it’s to do with womanly things, as she says, and she finally asked him to come with her to get the test results. Why is she holding back here even with Leonard, and what does she want to say to him that she can’t?

Tessa I think, again, I think that’s just something, you know, I think we’re so much more open now on what we about about bodily parts and you know, with especially with the Internet, everything’s out there and you can get photos of every part of your body, you can query it. But again, in the ‘50s and ‘60s, particularly for for women, you know, those things were incredibly private, I think, especially to some, like Mrs. C, who, you know, probably hasn’t been to a doctor, I would imagine, in years because she’d done some horrible thing with a cup of tea and then felt better. But so this is such a huge thing to even discuss where in her body this is. I would imagine she will have left it pretty late before doing anything about it. I get that feeling that, you know, she could have gone a year earlier, but she couldn’t face the fact that she would be discussing with a male because there weren’t any females then a male consultant parts below her navel. And I think she would have just found that so chronically embarrassing. She would have put it off and put it off. And, you know, until the very last minute when she presumably felt she couldn’t leave it any longer.

Jace We’ve previously discussed your longstanding friendship and previous mentorship with Al Weaver. What has it been like this series deepening that relationship between Mrs. C and Leonard, especially considering what passed between them in series six?

Tessa It’s been fantastic. I mean, our storylines, I always really, I look forward to doing every bit of Grantchester, but one of my favorite things is doing scenes with Al. The Mrs. C and Leonard stuff, because I just think Daisy from series one and now the other writers who join in also, you know, they’ve really got a sort of grip on how that relationship can be developed and because it is not a classic mother-son, and also you’ve got all those other things, the period drama, how people felt in those days about all the various things. You know, there’s so much more to play. But as I knew in series seven, because of the dilemma with her being ill, that Al and I were going to have some hope, but we were hoping to have some really lovely scenes together where we just, you know, you develop that emotionalism even more and can dig a bit deeper.

Jace Sylvia makes the decision to conceal her medical diagnosis from Jack because it’s, as she says, embarrassing. In fact, she’s acting so strangely that her husband comes to believe that she’s having an affair. Why won’t she open up then, to Jack? What is she so afraid of?

Tessa I think I think she says it really in that scene later on, when she says, you know, ‘I didn’t want to break your heart.’ And I think, you know, their love is so strong that when she’s told this might be a worrying diagnosis, the first thing she thinks, beyond, ‘I would like to tell him so I feel better,’ is ‘I don’t want him upset.’ So it’s a truly unselfish thing. I think she’s trying not to involve him because she knows he will worry and will be very, very upset and, you know, torn to pieces about it all. And she can’t bear that. So she’d rather just keep it all to herself.

Jace I mean, in fact, it’s it’s only because Leonard is spying on Mrs. C for Jack that he confronts her about the supposed affair, only to then learn that she’s been poorly and that the man she was spotted with is a doctor. Do you think that Mrs. C would have told Leonard the truth eventually, or is it a relief to her that she’s caught out and her hand is forced here?

Tessa It’s really interesting, isn’t it? Because I don’t really know the answer to that. I think she would have gone on with the secret as long as possible. I mean, at some point, something I’ve no doubt would have come out and she would have been forced to talk about it. But I think she was saying how long she could get away without telling anyone and indeed not worrying anybody and holding on to all this stuff to herself. And she also is a very private person. So I think yeah, I think she was just trying to hold on as long as possible. You know, eventually it would have come out, no doubt. But also, I think once it’s out, once she does reveal it to him, I think she realizes pretty quickly how how good it feels to share that problem and how much she has been holding in and worrying. And I think from that point onwards, she’s completely in cahoots with him and wants to share and wants him on that journey with her, because then it’s not so lonely.

Jace We see the tension building up within Sylvia, as well as not receiving any answer to her prayers until she sort of erupts entirely at poor Ernie Evans as she takes all of her guilt and anger out on this small child.

CLIP

Mrs. C Earnest Evans! What are you doing?

Ernie Nothing.

Mrs. C Did you do. That is a wicked thing to do. Do you know what happens to the wicked? God punishes them. They burn in the fires of hell for all eternity. You wicked, wicked boy!

Will Mrs C. That’s enough!

Jace  Is this speech really directed at herself? Is she speaking to herself here?

Tessa Absolutely. Yeah. It’s just yeah. I mean, I think she would have been probably about to have a private moment in the church. And so part of her reaction is because she’s been disturbed by this little child who’s sort of making, you know, damaging the pew. But it’s also that he has interrupted what would have been a private moment between her and God. And I think yeah, I think she takes it out on it could have been anyone that she was going to shout out. It happens to be this young lad. She’s just absolutely transferring over her own guilt and her fear and anger onto him.

Jace Mrs. C’s behavior becomes increasingly erratic. She takes Leonard out to dinner at a very posh restaurant where she orders a champagner and vents her frustration on this very snooty server. But there is to me a desperation to Sylvia here, real sadness. She says, ‘People always look down their nose at me.’ How do you play that fine line between ego and self-pity?

Tessa Yeah, it’s hard. But again, the scripts are so strong on Grantchester, it’s almost like you just have to be as truthful in the moment on the line. You don’t need to comment or do anything because the line does it for you. And it’s rare on certain tellies where you get the standard of writing that we get on Grantchester. So it does make that sort of decision incredibly easy. You’ve just got to sort of play it in the moment and it’s sort of done for you, really.

Jace This entire scene, which is already balancing on this sort of tightrope of tension, goes over the edge as Sylvia’s feelings are hurt by the server and patrons staring at her. And in a very un Mrs. C like fashion, she shouts, ‘Up your bum!.’ which made me roar with laughter. What is going through Sylvia’s head at this point and what provokes this response?

Tessa Well, I think, you know, in the scene that follows that scene, I think it all comes out. I think there’s a lot of history in her that’s never been shared before. And I think part of what she’s dealing with, all of it, again, is self reflective. So although people aren’t being very polite in the restaurant in the man is very snooty, the waiter, none of this would normally provoke, I think, this sort of response from her. But she was feeling at that point that her self-esteem was so low and I think she was feeling so guilty. And I think she feels deep down right for the minute she feels she’s ill, that this is a punishment for God for what she did when she was younger.

Jace I mean, you in this confession scene, you and Al are both just really breathtaking and amazing. And Leonard sort of falls back into his vocation as a curate, and Sylvia pleads with him for some sort of absolution. There’s a real vulnerability and heartache in Mrs. C that we don’t often get to see.

CLIP

Leonard You know you can tell me anything. You know I’d be the last person to judge.

Mrs. C I wasn’t even fifteen. The boy was a bit older. Said he loved me and I loved him. I was so young. I couldn’t’ve had a child, could I?

Leonard Oh, Mrs C…

Mrs. C There was a woman in the next village. Told my mum she’d sort it out. Said I’d still be able to have babies after. I prayed to God. I told him if he let me live, I’d be good. And I was. Ever so good the rest of my life. But it wasn’t enough, was it?

Leonard You were a child, Mrs C. You were in a terrible predicament. God doesn’t judge that.

Mrs. C I never did have a baby of my own. Never one that He let me keep. He’s forsaken me Leonard.

Leonard God tests us but it’s not punishment. Your cancer is not a punishment.

Jace How tough was this scene to film with Al?

Tessa Well, I think normally you’d look at a scene like that if you were working with someone, which very often happens, as we all know in telly, that you’ve only met maybe once before, I would have been slightly concerned because you are putting yourself in such a position of vulnerability. But as soon as I read that scene, I just thought, ‘Well, we both know,’ we didn’t even discuss it. We didn’t need to. We didn’t rehearse it because we just both have known each other now, you know, eight, nine years. And in that time you get to know how the other actor is and what they’re going to do and how they’re going to respond. And I just thought, ‘This will be fine. We’ll we’ll do whatever comes out and  Al will be brilliant in reacting to that, and then I will react to that.’ And so I won’t say it was a joy to do because those things that are heart wrenching aren’t exactly joyous. But it was really, really good to work with him on it. And I think we both enjoyed it as much as we could and felt we would done it, hopefully to to the best that we could, and the writers were pleased, you know.

Jace I mean, these episode three scenes were directed by Tom Brittney. But what sort of direction did he have for you? And in these very intimate, very emotionally fraught moments.

Tessa Yeah, he was brilliant, actually, I have to say, he was so good because, again, he knows us both so well that the joy of having sort of three friends in a room rehearsing and then filming, it was so lovely. And yeah, he was just, you know, he didn’t really need to say a lot. It was very evident from the lines and the way the scene was going to go, the beginning, middle and end. It had been very well constructed. And yeah, I think we only did it. I can’t remember now, but I think we only did a couple of times and he’d, he’d perhaps just say something like, ‘You know, we’re going to do it again, but come in closer and, you know, even tighter on her faults,’ or whatever, you know, he was great. He was supportive. He didn’t ever oppose anything. He just encouraged what we were doing, which is the best sort of directing, really. When you get to the stage and you sort of vaguely know what you do it, you think, well, you just want someone to go, ‘I’ve got this, I’ve got you, and we’re supporting you.’

Jace You were born in the 1950s, to a single mom whose own mother told her that she would be disowned if she continued the pregnancy, which is exactly what happened. What do you think that your mum, Mary, would have made of Sylvia’s speech here?

Tessa Yeah, I think she’d have found it incredibly moving, actually. I’m sure, you know, there was huge pressure on my own mum to have an abortion and I have to say, she was in her mid-thirties. So slightly different to Sylvia’s dilemma. But, you know, she stood firmly by her belief that she wanted a child and to her eternal credit, because she was disowned and disinherited by her entire family, she went ahead and had me. And so, you know, yeah, I think she would have found it a shame because she died just before I started the first series of Grantchester, literally just before, and actually she’d loved to see this sort of thing. It would have been just her cup of tea. So it’s a pity she can’t, but I think she’d find it fascinating, particularly all this dilemma with Sylvia and particularly this series.

Jace Before this next question, a brief word from our sponsors… 

Jace You referred earlier to sort of the agreement they made, Sylvia and God as a sort of pact. And so much of the exchange is about what she believes that God has taken from her, a child, a chance at life, at happiness. Do you think it reveals that Sylvia saw her faith all along as sort of transactional, as payment for services rendered for taking away the child she didn’t want? Or is it more complicated than that?

Tessa Well, that’s very interesting. I’ve never thought of it like that, that’s a very interesting way of looking at it. I think at the time it happened in her teens as a very young girl, impressionable, whatever, in shock, having to have this abortion, I think she probably felt that was not exactly transactional. It should have understood that. But I think she felt that if she behaved well enough, she would be able to forgive herself and therefore God will be able to forgive her. I think perhaps that. How it started. That, of course, as she matured and then grew herself and then married and then wasn’t able to have children. I think those things must have occurred to her on her journey through life. ‘Is this being done as a punishment? Am I now not allowed to have any children because I did this wicked thing,’ that may well, and now is the final, ‘You have cancer. Therefore this really is God saying you’ve never been forgiven.’ So I think it’s been a sort of journey as she’s gone through her life.

Jace She gathers everyone together at the vicarage to finally tell them about her cancer diagnosis, including Jack. And it’s clear in the moment that Jack is really hurt by Sylvia’s decision to keep him in the dark, but to tell Leonard. Does she expect his reaction, the sense of hurt that he has, or is she blindsided by the fact that he’s upset she told Leonard and not him?

Tessa Yes. I don’t think she anticipated that at all, actually. I think that’s the other thing that she’s slightly forced into that by Leonard, where he says, ‘You can’t go on like this. You have to tell everyone. It’s becoming now, you know, people are beginning to comment on your behavior. You’ve got to do something.’ So she’s sort of been forced into it. And so when she then does tell them, I think it takes such a lot for her to, it’s such a brave thing to have to say, ‘I’m very poorly and I might die.’ That’s such a, to the very people that you know love you and you’re going to hurt. I don’t think for a second she’s thought rationally about whether that would really hurt Jack and particularly whether he’d be upset about Leonard knowing first. I don’t think that occurred to her at all.

Jace You touched on the scene earlier. I love the Chapmans’ reconciliation scene, which is so heartfelt.

CLIP

Mrs. C I didn’t know how to tell you. I couldn’t bear to. You see, your heart means more to me than my own. I couldn’t bear to break it.

Jack I wish it was me who had cancer. It should’ve been me.

Jace What does her marriage mean to her? Having Jack say that he wishes he had cancer instead of her? Does it make it harder for Sylvia in a way?

Tessa Yes. I think that’s exactly why she didn’t tell him, because she knew he would say, ‘I would rather have the cancer than you,’ you know. And so that’s why she’s been delaying it and delaying it because she didn’t want…I mean, some people would say, ‘Well, it’s a bit cowardly. She should have just told him.’ But I think it isn’t that. I think it’s that she knows he will take this so bitterly himself and will want to, you know, volunteer to go instead. Yeah. And I love the fact that in that scene, you know, what I love about certain acting is when it’s so economical, when there’s heart there. And Al used to laugh about this when I used to say, “my favorite acting is not speaking,’ and it’s true. So that scene, for example, there’s so few words, there’s only about two lines, three lines. But it says everything you need to know about that couple, their marriage, their happiness, how long they’ve known each other, what they feel now in that moment. It says it all with about three lines. And you think, that’s what I love about the economy of really good writing?

Jace Well, it’s also their body language in that scene. You can tell just how close these people are and how much they mean to each other.

Tessa Yes.

Jace Sylvia and Jack’s onscreen marriage to me feels so sort of quietly authentic and touching, especially in scenes like that one. What does Nick Brimble bring to Sylvia and Jack’s dynamic and how would you describe those scenes together?

Tessa Well again, they’re a bit like the ones with Al. They’re joyous because Nick and I now have known each other, you know, coming up for nine years. And he’s such a lovely, lovely man. So it’s always a pleasure to work with him. And, you know, I think he likes the dynamic, too, he likes the fact that a few lines done well, as you say, with body movement and language, too can say so much. And I think hehe appreciates that as well. So there are always lovely, lovely scenes because he’s also funny. So the bits where they’re having comedy stuff together too. You know, he’s great at all of that. So it’s it’s joy. Yeah, it’s a joy to work with him.

Jace On the subject of economy of language. We have a scene where there’s no dialog whatsoever and it’s the hug with Will at the end of episode four, which just killed me. No, there’s no dialogue whatsoever in this final scene in the episode. But it’s the way that Sylvia comes in and looks at Will and they simply embrace, it has all of the feelings embedded within it. How does this moment reaffirm Mrs. C’s relationship with Will?

Tessa Well, again, you know how beautifully observed by the writers, you know, to get to the stage where, you know, it wasn’t many years ago where her beloved Sidney was leaving and she was never going to be able to find anyone to replace him. And look within seconds this, you know, thanks a lot to the dynamism and the good acting of Tom Brittney. Here is, Will has replaced that person of faith that Sylvia likes to be able to look up to, but also mother. And so how brilliant to have, exactly, as you say, that scene where it didn’t need any words. It shows how far Mrs. C and Will have come in that relationship, particularly as their relationship in this series until that point had been quite fractious because he didn’t understand what on Earth was the matter with her and she didn’t want to tell him he was feeling more and more irritated. So they were at such loggerheads until this point when he finds out. I just thought, ‘Isn’t that marvelous?’ They’ve rowed. And yet the writers have chosen this moment of reconciliation to not use a word, to just have it with with the actual sort of actions. And I thought that was lovely.

Jace For all of that, episode five begins with another Sylvia and Will scene, one in which she tells the vicar that she’s not going through with the treatment that she’s had her time. What precipitated this change of heart? Why is she decided she’s not going to undergo treatment?

Tessa I think she’s very frightened. I think this touches again on anyone who’s going through anything now or in the ‘50s. It doesn’t really matter. You know, I think there’s such fear because it’s your body that’s not functioning properly. And, you know, although someone has said, ‘Look, we’ll cut it out,’ you don’t know that’s going to be the end of it, certainly in the ‘50s where there was even less research into cancer. So I think she’s so worried that she won’t survive the operation or even if she does, she’s going to be poorly afterwards. What’s the point? She sort of has made up her mind that she’d rather enjoy the time she has now, feeling okay with the people she loves than risk losing all of that.

Jace I mean, so then do you see her as sort of giving in or is she just simply coming to terms with her mortality and saying, ‘If this is all I’ve been given, then that’s it?’

Tessa I think it’s a mix of lots of things. And she’s also at this stage, of course, not got God to guide her. I think it’s also that which I imagine must have, I thank God, I say, haven’t had to confront this myself with a serious illness. But I imagine, when you’re told that you’ve got something that might kill you or not, I think there’s a point where you want to have some control over that. And by her making a decision and saying, ‘Actually, I won’t have the treatment,’ she takes control of this illness, which, you know, it must feel when you have cancer, it’s taking over your body. So to be able to go, I’m going to make this decision because I’m in charge of my body. I think that’s perhaps another reason she perhaps makes that decision at that point.

Jace Now, as you say, it’s about her sort of then taking agency over her body. If she’s lost God, if she’s lost faith, then that is sort of the one thing she can control. She can choose to say, “o, I’m not going to do this.’

Tessa Absolutely.

Jace She then has what to me are some of the harshest words she’s ever uttered on the series. ‘You’re just a boy,’ she tells Will, ‘Trying to tell us all how to live.’ What is she saying here to Will, exactly? Is she coming still from this place of betrayal, from a God that she turned her back on?

Tessa Yes. I think she at that stage Will is the closest to God to her. And I think she’s taking it again, as she did with gold in church. She’s taking it out on Will as the representative of God on Earth. And so she’s she’s just trying to say, you know, nothing. You don’t you know, none of that works anymore. You can quote me the Bible. You can sit and pray with me. But none of that is working. And so it’s it’s her way of of course, it’s her anger at herself, really, I think, and the guilt still. But she can she can take that out on well, because they’ve now got to a place where they’re friends again and the love is there. So she’s sort of able to sort of take it out on him.

Jace There is an unexpected beat of emotion, of love at the end of this episode, when Mrs. C says goodbye to Geordie, who’s finally leaving the vicarage to move back in with Cath and the kids at home. You have such a look of surprise on your face when he hugs you, and then this beatific, sad expression and Sylvia says, ‘More time. It’s all we can hope for.’ Are we seeing Sylvia change her mind here?

Tessa Yes, I think it’s slowly, actually. It’s completely and utterly because of Georgie. I think until that point, you know, she wasn’t going to change her mind. And I think she talks about happiness and how it’s in the moment and how he’s realized that the things he loves, his family, you know, how much. And I think that is like a trigger point for her. And she suddenly thinks, you know what, that that is all that matters is how much time we have with those we love. And we have to make the most of that. And if that means going through an operation to to give more time for that, then that’s what she will do.

Jace I mean, I love that it’s Geordie. It’s not Will or Leonard or Jack who seems to snap Sylvia out of this sort of defeatist state of mind as it’s so unexpected. But it’s also fitting as he’s had his life derailed recently as well. Were you surprised by this moment when you picked up the script for this episode?

Tessa Yes, I was actually and I, I just thought, isn’t that brilliant writing? You see, they’ve they’ve they’ve all sat round storyline in this and they’ve come up with this and I thought that’s so clever because I would never have thought, you know. I mean, she’s had lots of scenes in the past with, with Georgie, and there’s always a joy. Of course Robson is a joy, but they’ve never had a moment like this and we wanted to register that. Robson and I talked about it before we filmed it. We wanted to register the fact that he would never normally hug her, and she would never expect it, so that both of them have suddenly gone into a slightly different territory than they’ve ever been in before. And for both of them, that has a slight impact, more so probably for her, because she’s then going to change her mind about treatment. But we wanted that mark. So I think that’s what the writers were also thinking about. And I thought, well, how original. It’s a really clever way of doing it because it would have been easy for one of the other characters she knows and loves. Better to to persuade her, perhaps, or help her change her mind about treatment. But it’s rather lovely that it comes from someone who doesn’t even think that she’s considering not having treatment. That hasn’t occurred to Robson, to Geordie. The moment is about the hug and him leaving to go back to the life he wants to have with his family.

Jace I just love it. There is, it’s not quite a flinch, but it is just this stiffening in Sylvia’s body when he goes to hug her. And then she gives into it, and she gives in to obviously to sort of love, to life, to this decision that she seems like she’s going to make. And as you say it, it isn’t Leonard. It isn’t Jack. It isn’t Will. It’s this person who she’s been sort of taking care of for the last few weeks and maybe doesn’t know her quite as while as the others who’s able to provoke the largest response. And it surprised me and I loved it.

Tessa Yeah, good, good. Well, we hoped that would happen. And as I say, we we marked through that thing of of slightly stiffening. That was part of the rehearsal. We wanted it, you know, because it would be easy for him to just hug and her to hug back. But, you know, that would have been a sort of another way of doing it. But we both felt it would have more impact if it had a slight sort of shock through her body before she then gave in to that hug. So I’m glad you’ve noticed that. That’s great.

Jace There’s one episode of Grantchester left this series. What can you tease about what lies ahead for Sylvia in the final episode? Does she perhaps choose life in the end?

Tessa Well, she yes, she chooses. She hopes for life. I won’t spoil it. But she yes, she does decide to go into hospital. What happens after that? People will have to watch. But yes, she chooses to try and cope with it with medical assistance.

Jace Might there be a reconciliation in the cards for Sylvia and God or are they on the outs, do you think?

Tessa I think it’s it’s going to take rather a lot, but I think, yes, I think possibly in the end there might be a reconciliation. Eventually, I think it might take take a bit of time.

Jace You mentioned your tour at the top of this interview and you recently reunited with your Only Fools and Horses costar Gwyneth Strong for a stage version of Ladies of Letters. How would you describe your experience of performing on stage in front of a live audience, particularly after these last few years of lockdown and social distancing?

Tessa It’s been the best thing ever. I mean, I love theater at any point, but I was in a job until when COVID happened and we were all suddenly told, go home, don’t come back. And it’s been two years since I was last on the stage. So getting back this April and now touring the country and listening to an audience every night, I can’t tell you it’s so lovely. And people come up to us in the street and say, you know, it’s all so horrible. At the moment. Things in the world don’t seem to be quite as happy as we’d all like to be to come and see something and come away afterwards. Smiling is just so good. So if it does nothing else but cheer people up, then we’re doing our job. And it’s. It’s been joyous. It’s lovely, lovely, lovely.

Jace I love it. Tessa Peake-Jones, thank you so very much.

Tessa Thank you. You’re always a delight to talk to. Thank you.

Jace With a single episode of this seventh season of Grantchester to go, you might think we’ve uncovered all the secrets left in the village. You’d be wrong.

CLIP

Professor Larson Inspector! Vicar. Are you here to arrest me… …or convert me?

Will We’ll see.

Jace Series lead Tom Brittney and series creator and head writer Daisy Coulam return to the podcast after the seventh season finale, August 14.

MASTERPIECE Studio is hosted by me, Jace Lacob, produced by Nick Andersen and edited by Robyn Bissette. Elisheba Ittoop is our sound designer. The executive producer of MASTERPIECE is Susanne Simpson.