The Big Picture

• Christina Jackson and Lucas Hedges discuss stepping into real-life characters for Shirley Chisholm biopic, sharing the pressure and challenges.
• Money, access, and recognition play key roles in the difficulty of making films about important historical figures like Shirley Chisholm.
• Jackson and Hedges both share how playing important living figures like Barbara Lee and Robert Gottlieb brought inspiration and responsibility.

In the new Netflix biopic, Shirley, Oscar-winner Regina King (If Beale Street Could Talk) portrays the first Black woman to run for a major party nomination, Shirley Chisholm. The film, from writer-director and Academy Award-winning screenwriter John Ridley (12 Years a Slave), focuses on the revolutionary 1972 campaign that would pave the way to a new future, and that's only a piece of this historical figure's lifetime achievements.

In this interview with Collider's Steve Weintraub, Christina Jackson (Devotion), who plays Congresswoman Barbara Lee, and Lucas Hedges (Manchester by the Sea), who plays writer and editor Robert Gottlieb, talk about stepping into the shoes of a real person. They talk about the pressure and "kinship" of portraying someone who is still alive and making history today, as well as the challenges of previous projects. On the topic of telling Chisholm's remarkable story, and why it's taken decades to do so, Jackson opens up about the reasons why.

Shirley also features Lance Reddick, Terrence Howard, Reina King, Brian Stokes Mitchell, Amirah Vann, and André Holland. You can check out the full interview in the video above, or you can read the transcript below.

COLLIDER: I’ve got a ton of questions, but I like throwing some curveballs at the beginning. There are people out there who have never seen anything that you've done before, and if they haven't, what is the first thing you'd like them watching and why?

LUCAS HEDGES: The first thing that popped into my head was a movie called Waves. I just think it's probably the closest depiction of me. It’s the closest I've been to myself in a movie.

So you weren't acting, it was just you.

HEDGES: I was acting, but when I look at it, I’m like, “I know that guy. That’s the guy I live with.” So I think that would be cool for people to see.

JACKSON: I'm going to say Swagger on Apple. It is a basketball show.

Oh, I know the show.

JACKSON: I'm not even a basketball fan. It is loosely based off of Kevin Durant when he was younger in AAU basketball, and the way that it is written, the way that it is shot, the basketball sequences, it is absolutely incredible, and you have a really cool cast. If you never saw anything, that would be the one.

Yeah, but you had to work with O’Shea [Jackson Jr.] and he is a pain. I’m joking.

JACKSON: Whoo! He is one of the funniest people I've ever met in my entire life.

Yeah, but he loves the Lakers a little too much.

JACKSON: Just a bit.

HEDGES: He really does.

JACKSON: He considered getting the Staple Center’s letters when they changed the name. [Laughs]

He also collects the championship rings.

JACKSON: And wrestling belts… This is not about him. [Laughs]

Let’s switch. What is the most nervous you've been the night before filming something, like the first day of filming?

HEDGES: For me, I've done a few plays. I’m not trying to pivot, but for me theater is much more terrifying. I think opening nights or the first day of previews. That's a rare kind of fear for me.

I could never do that in a million years.

HEDGES: It’s tough.

JACKSON: You know what, I've only done one play, but the subject matter was so serious that I'm going to agree. I'm going to agree just because there was no actual dialogue, it was just pages and pages of my character talking and you had to get through it without crying. Yes, that was probably the most nervous that I've ever been, not because I didn't know the words, but you just don't know what's gonna happen in that space once you tap in.

Why Studios Should Invest in Creators

One of the things about this film is Regina and her sister spent, like, 15 years trying to get this made. My thing is movies like this are fantastic because they shine a light on people that deserve to be talked about from our history. Why are these films so hard to get made all the time? You speak to everyone and films about people, generally, it's a huge uphill battle.

JACKSON: I will say that I've watched interviews from a ton of specifically Black actors throughout the years who've had these passion projects, who were told, “No one wants to see that,” or, “No one wants to know that story,” or, “This is too niche. Most audiences wouldn't connect to it.” I don't think that that's how art works. Everything doesn't have to be palatable to everyone, but I think it should be accessible to give people the choice of whether they get to connect to it or not. And also, money. Money is a really, really big thing. It's not that there isn't any money anywhere, it's where they choose to divvy it up at.

HEDGES: And the question specifically is why is this movie…?

No, just in general. Like certain, not a “biopic,” but you know what I mean. They all seem to be such a challenge.

HEDGES: Regina, she just won her Oscar, so I imagine we're lucky that, if it hadn't been her, we might not have been able to get the movie made. So, like you're saying, I don't know what it takes, but because Regina wanted to do it we got to make it. She's at a point in her life where she's getting recognized for her career's work. So, I don't know why it takes that to make it, but we're lucky we got to make it.

For soon-to-be fans of this film, what do you think would surprise them to learn about the making of Shirley?

HEDGES: We had fun. Well, maybe that's clear when you watch it. “They didn't have fun…” No, but I think we had fun. When I look back at our time in Cincinnati, apart from my nights roaming the streets by myself and eating Chick-fil-A because that was all there seemed to be to eat, I just feel like we in the green room, whenever I think about it I just get a warm feeling. Or just getting dinner in the hotel. I guess I’d just say we had a good time making it. A really good time.

JACKSON: I agree. This was a special one.

You're playing real people, and someone who is still in politics and making a huge difference in the world. What is that responsibility like? These are important people that you're portraying.

JACKSON: For me, I did not know the story of Barbara Lee beforehand, but I knew the story of Shirley. Then, in reading the script, you're seeing the beginnings of a young Barbara Lee. I was nervous because I was playing somebody who was still alive, but when you see the work that she's done in the 50 years since this campaign, it is inspiring. And I think for me, it made it a little bit easier because she's not someone that I loathed playing, you know what I mean? Sometimes you get a character where it's like, “Do I believe? How do I feel?” I didn't feel that way with Congresswoman Barbara Lee, so to see her now and to see that she's running for Senate is like she's going even further, and I'm very happy that I get to play her at this time.

HEDGES: When I had dinner with Robert Gottlieb, it was like a week before we started filming, and he was like, “Is this really gonna be a movie? You’re really doing this?” He didn't even expect he would be in the movie, so it was like, I'm not sure I felt a ton of pressure for me, relative to Barbara Lee, but I felt a kinship to him. It was almost like that little 21-year-old was still alive in him. There wasn't an ego with him. So, I don't know if I felt pressure as much as I just felt inspired.

Shirley is now streaming on Netflix.

Watch Shirley on Netflix here.