Talk:Historical drama

Changes

Made some changes to the definition since it is fairly nuanced and tricky depending how it's used. Blooms usage for example applies the objective definition #2 about prior eras to his opinion of how future eras will view works published in our own era. One can't easily call a work of art published in our own era a "period piece" without the label having a high degree of subjectivity. However one can label a work from prior eras a period piece with a lot more certainty and objective measurement.

Also regarding this section which I moved here:

When used in the context of cinema, "period" refers to a picture that is set in a past time. Examples would be such diverse films as Gladiator, Quo Vadis, and Ben Hur (Classical Rome) or Al Capone, The Untouchables, and Road to Perdition (Prohibition-era). Generally, a period film will make efforts to accurately reflect the time period in which it occurs, as opposed to works such as the Western, sword and sandal, or some Kung Fu Movies which are set in times long past but merely use this device as a backdrop. Seven Samurai could be considered a period film, while a Jackie Chan film taking place in medieval China would likely not be. Most John Wayne movies are considered Westerns, but The Alamo is a period film.

This is just a re-hash of the first definition and so much trivia - why movies, we could do the same with any dozens of art forms and make a lengthy list of "examples". It doesn't add anything to the article and encourages adding trivia for everyones favorite historical film. -- 71.191.47.120 03:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Costume drama

Similar concepts. Articles should be merged and sourced. Also consider merging with Historical fiction. Osubuckeyeguy (talk) 01:44, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

@Osubuckeyeguy: Similar does not mean identical. Nuance is needed. If you read the descriptions, there is only an overlap, that doesn't mean that a merger is justified. The merger was premature and should be undone. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:01, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@Mad Hatter: Note that the terms costume drama and costume film are not even mentioned in the article, so the sentence "The implication is that the audience is attracted as much by the lavish costumes as by the content" introduced into this article as part of the merger does not even make sense. Shoddy work like this is a disgrace for Wikipedia. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 17:07, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Classification of Old Heidelberg (1959 film)

Would the film Old Heidelberg be classified as a historical period drama? --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 03:02, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

Hard to say since A) this article cites no sources so the definition of "historical drama" is original research, and B) there is no synopsis of "Alt Heidelberg" so it's hard to say when it is set. Based on the google image search results, it looks like a costume drama, but I'd find a source. To me, if it's set in a "period" (like, at least one generation) before its production date, then it probably fits. But I think a more important task is to start finding sources for the basic definitions at this page and at List_of_historical_period_drama_films_and_series.Henry chianski (talk) 15:57, 22 January 2017 (UTC)

https://www.stursulas.com/ursuline-history-of-the-school

86.171.248.126 (talk) 09:17, 31 January 2019 (UTC)

Correcting the title of this article

The incorrect titling of this article suggests that “historical period drama” is the principally encountered term, rather than “historical drama” or “period drama”. I don’t believe this is so. The citation, and indeed the article itself (which doesn’t use this term again in the body) doesn’t suggest that this is so. The words “historical” and “period” are carrying a similar role in the phrase, and including them both makes little sense from a linguistic perspective.

The problems with articles like this is that editors start using the full phrase in other articles, as if the existence of this page proves that it is correct usage. Once such edit brought me straight here.

This article needs to be renamed “historical drama”, which is by far the most commonly encountered term. If someone wishes to prove that the longer term is in common usage as a secondary term, they need to provide justification by citation. MapReader (talk) 07:09, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Also cf. Encyclopaedia Britannica, where Historical Drama is the category term in use for that reputable encyclopaedia. MapReader (talk) 09:27, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 27 February 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: No consensus to move (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 16:05, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

---

Historical drama → Period piece – The correct title for this article is Period piece. That was the original title given by a trained historian with a film degree. We should respect technical expertise.

The redirect history for Historical drama (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) wiped out by the previous move needs to be restored.

William Allen Simpson (talk) 12:17, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

It is still in Category:Period pieces. The recent move caused a disturbance in the category tree, with the following comments (thus far):

• Comment I dislike the use of "historical" in this context as it implies some veracity. As I stated recently about the corresponding film category, there is a huge stretch of credulity to lump things like that purport to convey a historical past with those that don't. E.g., compare Roots or Little House on the Prairie with Merlin (2008 TV series) or The Flintstones. We have a whole structure of Category:Television series by period of setting and that should suffice rather than trying to claim that the Flintstones were 'historic'. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:48, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose keep common name. Rjensen (talk) 15:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

• Comment — a fictional portrayal during a period isn't necessarily historical. That would keep Category:Television series by period of setting under Category:Period television series.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 10:03, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

• In the US film and theater industry, they are called "period dramas" or "period pieces" (for an highly influential example, see 25 Best Period Dramas to Watch For an Escape).

  In the world of Hollywood, a period piece specifically refers to a film, TV series, or miniseries that is set during an earlier time. Period pieces often have high budgets and involve complex shoots, but the extra effort ensures that the audience is transported into a past era.

  — Period Piece Genre Explained: 4 Types of Period Pieces in Film

  Only actual non-fiction history is called "historical". It is a subset of (child of) all period pieces, because a period piece can include fiction. I'd thought that maybe there was an English-language issue, but I'm finding the same terms in Britain. The primary ghit for "Historical drama" is wikipedia, followed by pages of ghits for "period drama".
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 23:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

• Many period pieces are not dramatic, but violent, comical, horrific and romantic, all separately. These rename discussions may be closed with the consensus not to move, once historical drama is renamed to period drama/period piece. Kailash29792 (talk) 11:35, 27 February 2021 (UTC)
• Comment. "Historical drama" or "Period drama" both appear to meet the criteria of WP:COMMONNAME. They're certainly the most common terms that I've seen in the UK. "Period piece" would strike me as a little old-fashioned these days. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:08, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

• Google ngrams shows that period piece is the more modern term.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:21, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose since I find the current name a more general term that is more readily understood by laypersons. A quick search engine test shows Deadline Hollywood using the term here a few days ago, for example. The New York Times called Judas and the Black Messiah a "historical drama" here. No issue with mentioning "period piece" and its origins in this article, though. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 16:09, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Also worth noting that historical film redirects to here (to historical drama), which may not be the best redirect. Might be worth having a separate discussion about historical sub-genres. Historical comedies are listed here, for example. Erik (talk | contrib) ^{(ping me)} 18:01, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose, because historical drama is a broader term. Period piece might apply to dramas from the late medieval period onwards, but dramas set in Ancient Rome, Egypt, Greece, or prehistory are, IMHO, not called period pieces. MapReader (talk) 18:10, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

• That's backwards. All historical dramas are period pieces, but not all period pieces are historical dramas.
  William Allen Simpson (talk) 09:21, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

No, both are true. A piece set in a particular historical period might not be considered a drama (for example it might be an all-action film), for sure. But I also stand by my assertion that few would describe an historical drama from early or prehistory as a period piece. MapReader (talk) 09:51, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.