OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I'm looking for recommendations for LP rubbers to try as a progression from Spinlord Agenda. I've been using LP on BH for 1 year (modern defensive style with Tenergy/forehand attack), and Agenda (1mm) is really the only LP I've tried so far. I do like it, but a few people have said that I should use something that has a stronger reversal effect, and I think they're right. What I like about Agenda is how it can generate a decent amount of its own spin (I think like 25% of an inverted rubber) e.g. backhand topspin against a float ball, but is still quite disruptive when doing shots like side-swipes etc, and still has decent reversal for chopping loops (I really like Agenda for chopping far from the table - it seems quite easy to keep the ball low, even if it's not totally loaded). I guess if I want a rubber that has stronger reversal then it won't be able to generate as much of its own spin? It would also be nice to be able to generate more backspin on a push vs float balls with the LP but then I guess I'd be looking closer to short pimples? Any/all recommendations appreciated.

If you are chopping and playing a modern defender game it sounds like you should not change! Getting more reversal is the opposite end of the spectrum. Generally people should decide either chop (with 1.0 sponge, plus or minus to taste and a grippy LP) OR go for reversal/blocking style with OX or very thin sponge using a harder, less grippy LP). You can waste years of time looking for the magic LP that does both-there is no such unicorn. Stay with what you have and spend that time of technique.

Course getting the right blade is important...

I played quite a while with same rubber - Agenda 1.0mm. It is one of the easiest pips to play with, chopping is wonderful and you can also play at the table frictionless style blocking etc. If you are after more of your own spin, playing will get more difficult. With grippier pips you will have more variation in your chops, but they require different skill set at the table and reading the spin will be more important. So I would say that...

1. Agenda is best sponged pip I have played for defence oriented game.
2. The drawback of Agenda is slower speed, lack of disturbance and some lack of variation.
3. One popular option is to change to ox pips, you get more speed and disturbance, but lose control in chopping.
4. Other option is grippy pips with sponge, but you will need lot of time learning to use them, for many players they are too difficult to use.

Mind the fragility of the pimples. Money waste.

Rubbish! So you think regular inverted rubbers last longer?

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Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"

Dongsoo are you using red or black Agenda 1.0mm. generally with pips out rubbers the red versions are faster and more disruptive whilst the black versions have more grip.

The ability to hit with what appears to be some topspin and side swipes you mention are partly due to the 1.0mm sponge not just the grip of the pips. I remember trying Agenda 1.0mm black 3-4 years ago and the ease
to be able to hit swerving side swipes was a stand out feature.

Vanjr - Interesting perspective, thanks. I'm still new to this whole reversal thing - I'm decent at backhand chopping with inverted rubbers, but when someone really loops it properly that is a different kettle of fish, and when chopping with LP instead I have 10x more control (I'm aware I'm not creating my own backspin, but instead reversing the other player's topspin; hence why I was looking for more reversal)

Roy - Thanks, I think I will give option 4 a try :)

Igorponger - I'm on my second sheet of Agenda and not a single pimple has broken, seems good quality.

ChasFox - Black 1.0

I'm interested in trying out Curl V1.

If you want to play near the table, the best pips are Dr. Neubauer Desperado Reloaded, you can also use Spinlord Dornenglanz or Leviathan but I prefer Desperado Reloaded. All of them in OX.
In my signature you can see a video with Desperado Reloaded. I imagine that with a sponge they will be more suitable for chop from a distance.

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Dr. Neubauer Matador Texa Carbon Gewo Proton Neo 450 Dr. Neubauer Desperado Reloaded OX
YouTube Channel (follow please): https://www.youtube.com/@clubtenisdemesafuengirola

https://youtu.be/UtDiySQJDdQ?si=KlRVvGncoxAuKXM4

Today was my first test of Victas Curl P1V 1.5mm, changing from Spinlord Agenda 1.0mm. Blade: Nittaku Violoncello. Red: Tenergy 05 max.

I expected it to feel very different from Agenda and that it would take me several weeks to get used to, but to my surprise it felt very similar and I didn't have to adjust my technique much. I would say that Agenda, though a great rubber, is basically a poor man's Curl, though maybe that's only because it isn't available in thicker sponge than 1.0mm. First impression: Curl is the superior rubber, by a significant margin. Initial findings:

1) Biggest difference between the rubbers for me was basic backhand drive/topspin vs topspin/block; much easier with Curl, though again maybe just because of thicker sponge, though I think the pips are also slightly grippier. Counter-topspin mid-rally especially easy. Example: 2:12. Obvious downside: less disruption when blocking and hard to create a backspin/dead effect, though when passive/soft blocking topspin it does still send back a trace of chop, just less than Agenda.

2) Chopping vs loops back from table, definitely generates a bit more backspin (maybe 20%+?) than Agenda, again possibly because of thicker sponge, and I'm not sure if this is the rubber creating some of its own spin or pure reversal; I suspect a bit of both.

3) Chop-sidespin blocking close to table appears easier with Curl but that might be personal preference.

4) The moment of truth, the achiles' heel of Long Pimples; effectively pushing/chopping back serves that go fast/long/flat (no spin) into the backhand, without needing to twiddle, or not having time to twiddle due to the speed/surprising nature of the serve. In this scenario, Curl can definitely create more of its own backspin than Curl; it takes quite a fine touch but by quickly brushing down the back of the ball and using some wrist, the ball can be sent low enough over the net with maybe enough chop to prevent the server having a comfortable third ball winner. Example: 1:45.

5) Unorthodox shots such as side-swipes against short serves I haven't tested yet.

Final thoughts:

My backhand chopping technique is very self-taught so I've no idea if it's any good; in my head I look like Joo Se Hyuk but having watched myself back I appear to chop much more in front of my body/under the ball as opposed to the lovely side-on downwards action that Joo has - is this what I need to learn in order to chop with heavier backspin?

Nice chopping and playing skills!

1. I think you have good base skills to learn and use Curl.
2. Your chopping technique is bit unorthodox, but it might work for you. You have wristy follow through in front of the body.
3. Counters are certainly better with Curl, althought they are often ineffective with pips.
4. I don't have much difficulty chopping with grippy pips like Curl. The problems start with short game, serve returns, emergency returns and other stuff... And in game situations. Pips like Agenda are just more foregiving against difficult spins.

Thanks Roy I am going to try to improve my BH chopping technique.