Talk:Fena: Pirate Princess
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Animation directors[edit]
@GalaxyFighter55: Could you give a proper explanation as to why you're removing the listing of the animation directors? Like I said previously, the Template:Episode list gives us the ability to add such auxiliary to the table as a general purpose parameter, it is used in many pages to list the main staff involved in the making of said episodes, animation directors included, so why is it that you're insisting that much on this page especially when this parameter is not used for anything else nor the place is missing in the table to implement it. 2A04:CEC0:1171:EFE4:FB04:3C81:35F6:A49E (talk) 03:08, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
- @2A04:CEC0:1171:EFE4:FB04:3C81:35F6:A49E: I have added the section back as I could not find individual episode writers or story boarders after a extensive evaluation of all of the credits. Sometimes pride just gets the best of me, apologies.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 07:45, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
- Kazuto Nakazawa is the main storyboarder, while Asako Kuboyama is the main writer, they are both credited in the opening which usually mean that they are in charge of all the episodes, these main credits are listed in the infobox or written in prose in the anime/production section to avoid repetitive listing in the table. 2A04:CEC0:10BB:3BEE:A0E0:6E97:6CFD:E58A (talk) 17:41, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
@GalaxyFighter55: Could you also give an explanation as to your last revert regarding the table? I am trying to use the space available on the width to avoid creating an unnecessary additional row on episode 2 and 3. 2A04:CEC0:1176:E838:EA7D:61C6:F09:E67B (talk) 23:21, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
- @2A04:CEC0:1176:E838:EA7D:61C6:F09:E67B and 2A04:CEC0:1176:E838:EA7D:61C6:F09:E67B: As long as the only three remain listed on the section in question I don't see the need to expand the width. Later down the line was could use a third staff section, if feasible.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 05:11, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
- Because like I said, it's to avoid creating a third row when we can fit the text into only two, making the table excessively less long. Columns list diferrent things from each others, they don't have to be on the same exact width. Why would it have to stay at 11 when there's place available and that none other columns are in use at the present time? If there's a need for another one, then we'll see at that time how can we fit things and I'm pretty sure that another column would fit even with 15 width. I don't even see the point of selecting specific widths when the table is easily readable by default. 2A04:CEC0:1005:CC15:304D:D8CE:1FD0:D82D (talk) 23:25, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
@Sarcataclysmal: Could you elaborate on why do you think having a list of animation directors isn't feasible? 2A04:CEC0:1179:8AB0:1122:7295:7F62:FA26 (talk) 19:30, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
- Animation directors (作画監督), at least nowadays, aren't as notable as storyboard artists, so for one there's the fact that there's more undue weight being given to them, and the other issue is that a lot of times the episodes have more animation directors than is possible to list within the episodic infoboxes. For example, Zombie Land Saga has an average of 5-6 animation directors per episode, with a minimum of two on one episode and a maximum of 8 (not to mention several chief animation directors (総作画監督) per episode, who are above the ADs). We can also use Zaregoto as an example, with an average of 6-7 animation directors per episode, 8 working on a single episode at the maximum, but also 5 chief animation directors who did not work on every episode (3 on episode 1, 4 on episodes 2-7, and 5 on episode 8). I mean, I've even seen series with 15-20 animation directors on a single episode; look at the list of animation directors for Plunderer, that's an absolutely abysmal mess. To put it very bluntly, it's impossible to have a good-looking list unless we're assuming Fena's production doesn't fall off (and even then, that's not particularly consistent with other episodic tables), and it's also implying that animation directors are more noteworthy than storyboard artists. Now, it seems Nakazawa is doing the storyboarding himself, that's true, but the storyboarding reasoning still stands imo. Of course, I agree ADs are important, but I don't see listing them in episode templates will work on Wikipedia in this manner. Sarcataclysmal (talk) 19:58, 31 August 2021 (UTC)
- I am aware that some series which have production issues end up with too many credited staffs than it should be but I don't see how is this a good reason to not list them here when it's still more than easy to list them corectly, only three animation directors have been credited for the first four episodes so far. The table can look fine even with 6 or 8 credits per episode as long as you're using the width correctly as I explained above. We are also allowed to list the writers and the storyboarders even if they are the same for all the episodes as there is no particular rule regarding that matter and I see plenty of list doing that. I also see the animation directors listed more than enough on Wikipedia to consider them a notable credit. I have no problem in arguing about what's more noteworthy to credit but you just removed that list just for the sake of it without proposing anything else to credit, I don't see how is that improving the page. 2A04:CEC0:108D:2FDA:5CFE:2027:930:632A (talk) 05:16, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
- You're right on saying there's no particular rule against putting the same storyboarder or writer in the episodic tables, but it's inefficient and largely redundant when the same information can be conveyed by simply stating such in the prose (i.e. what I've done with List of Monogatari episodes with the two writers who worked across the entire series). If the series ends and the ADs can be added without the table becoming hard to read/without becoming detrimental to the accessibility, then it's fine, but I'd rather not jump the gun on it. The Case Study of Vanitas, for example, was fine and had 2-5 ADs per episode for the first few weeks, but the two most recent episodes have had 16 and 15, which is very epic (lol). 03:28, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
- I agree with you indeed, I don't mind waiting for the series to end. 2A04:CEC0:11CB:D03:949C:19CC:B527:3B15 (talk) 02:48, 6 September 2021 (UTC)
- You're right on saying there's no particular rule against putting the same storyboarder or writer in the episodic tables, but it's inefficient and largely redundant when the same information can be conveyed by simply stating such in the prose (i.e. what I've done with List of Monogatari episodes with the two writers who worked across the entire series). If the series ends and the ADs can be added without the table becoming hard to read/without becoming detrimental to the accessibility, then it's fine, but I'd rather not jump the gun on it. The Case Study of Vanitas, for example, was fine and had 2-5 ADs per episode for the first few weeks, but the two most recent episodes have had 16 and 15, which is very epic (lol). 03:28, 4 September 2021 (UTC)
- I am aware that some series which have production issues end up with too many credited staffs than it should be but I don't see how is this a good reason to not list them here when it's still more than easy to list them corectly, only three animation directors have been credited for the first four episodes so far. The table can look fine even with 6 or 8 credits per episode as long as you're using the width correctly as I explained above. We are also allowed to list the writers and the storyboarders even if they are the same for all the episodes as there is no particular rule regarding that matter and I see plenty of list doing that. I also see the animation directors listed more than enough on Wikipedia to consider them a notable credit. I have no problem in arguing about what's more noteworthy to credit but you just removed that list just for the sake of it without proposing anything else to credit, I don't see how is that improving the page. 2A04:CEC0:108D:2FDA:5CFE:2027:930:632A (talk) 05:16, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
@GalaxyFighter55: Regarding your last revert, what do you mean by oversized section? The table is at its maximum width, comon sense editing would make use of this width in order to refrain compressing and adding unnecessary lenght into the table, I don't understand why would you keep this disproportionate format. 2A04:CEC0:1190:1734:B0F6:7F51:9AA0:D70D (talk) 02:50, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Because its jarring and awkward looking compared to the edit I have laid. Why do you have a problem with this so much? Matching the section size up as close as possible to the other sections makes for a seamless look.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 03:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have a proposal: keep as is or add clickable notes for the episodes with more than 2-3 animation directors, would that suffice?--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 06:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Columns list diferrent things from each others, their widths don't need to be matched at all or else it's disproportionate, the width must be chosen based on the quantity. I don't see why some credits should be put under notes and some not. We don't even need to format the width of any columns since the table is readable and looks fine by default, the purpose of this parameter is mainly to reduce the width of a section that would encroach another, which is not the case here so if we can't agree on a number, let the table arrange by itself. 2A04:CEC0:1169:AFDF:438:273:9C74:21F7 (talk) 05:59, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have a proposal: keep as is or add clickable notes for the episodes with more than 2-3 animation directors, would that suffice?--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 06:26, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
- Because its jarring and awkward looking compared to the edit I have laid. Why do you have a problem with this so much? Matching the section size up as close as possible to the other sections makes for a seamless look.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 03:35, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
@GalaxyFighter55: I see that you're still reverting back to your revision and except for personnal preference, I don't see any valid reason as to why we should stick with these numbers, could you please explicitely state what are you trying to do instead of plainly just reverting again. 2A04:CEC0:11E4:CB5B:46B8:5C13:BFAA:FEB8 (talk) 23:25, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have just came up with the solution. I've also noticed you've been removing content on List of the Ogiso, Oba of Benin, Oranyan, Movement for the self-determination of Kabylie, Lounès Matoub, List of Kabyle people, Mhamed Arezki and Ferhat Mehenni with sock puppets under the false pretext of so called historical fraud and blocked from them as a result, so it's ironic and somewhat amusing you talk about personal preference like you're the all and almighty expert about that around the site.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 06:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- That's not how tables work, why not put everything into a note in the first place? That's losing the purpose of this template. I still don't get why you don't want to use the space available in the table but still have no problem to keep the table at 100% width, I fail to see the logic used here? I don't exactly know what you mean by "matching the section size", which section are you referring to? Because your previous edits concerning the directors were not matching at all. Which section should we put into that category and how do we define "as close as possible", what are the extrema in term of width and where do you we draw the line? Do you have a consistent pattern that we can use to understand your editing? If your goal is to match the directors section, which is by the way not a requirement, there we have already. If it's more than that, please explain me how is it proportianetely possible to do so. Also please stay on topic and don't get personnal, that's not how we're gonna have a productive conversation. I also kindly invite you to read Network address translation and understand how shared IP address work. 2A04:CEC0:101A:4E3:FF6A:464D:7C66:9AD9 (talk) 08:58, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- Then why is it you're creating a new IP every time I interact with you? If you had nothing to hide you wouldn't be concealing your IP.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 15:12, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- I find your last contributions more appropriate, I just rearranged the credits in the right order, altough if someone wanted to remove the storyboard listing from the table to put it in prose, it would be acceptable. I'm not creating nor hiding anything, this IPv6 is dynamic but the header is still the same and even if I wanted to contribute through diferent IPs or accounts, that would still be my right to do so as long as I'm not breaking Wikipedia rules. It's not the right place to talk about myself but I am simply not interested on having social discussion unrelated to the improvement of the article just like we have right now. 2A04:CEC0:10E7:4BBB:A147:F1A0:AF45:3BAB (talk) 23:05, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
- Then why is it you're creating a new IP every time I interact with you? If you had nothing to hide you wouldn't be concealing your IP.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 15:12, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- That's not how tables work, why not put everything into a note in the first place? That's losing the purpose of this template. I still don't get why you don't want to use the space available in the table but still have no problem to keep the table at 100% width, I fail to see the logic used here? I don't exactly know what you mean by "matching the section size", which section are you referring to? Because your previous edits concerning the directors were not matching at all. Which section should we put into that category and how do we define "as close as possible", what are the extrema in term of width and where do you we draw the line? Do you have a consistent pattern that we can use to understand your editing? If your goal is to match the directors section, which is by the way not a requirement, there we have already. If it's more than that, please explain me how is it proportianetely possible to do so. Also please stay on topic and don't get personnal, that's not how we're gonna have a productive conversation. I also kindly invite you to read Network address translation and understand how shared IP address work. 2A04:CEC0:101A:4E3:FF6A:464D:7C66:9AD9 (talk) 08:58, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
- I have just came up with the solution. I've also noticed you've been removing content on List of the Ogiso, Oba of Benin, Oranyan, Movement for the self-determination of Kabylie, Lounès Matoub, List of Kabyle people, Mhamed Arezki and Ferhat Mehenni with sock puppets under the false pretext of so called historical fraud and blocked from them as a result, so it's ironic and somewhat amusing you talk about personal preference like you're the all and almighty expert about that around the site.--GalaxyFighter55 (talk) 06:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)