Talk:Dub music

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search
WikiProject Electronic music (Rated C-class, Top-importance)
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Electronic music, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Electronic music on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
C-Class article C  This article has been rated as C-Class on the project's quality scale.
 Top  This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
 

Etymology[edit]

In the main article "dub" is identified as an abbreviation of "double" which, of course, it is not. Since this is my first visit (wanted to see if this weekend's 10th. anniversary party at Elbo Room was mentioned) I don't know how/where to insert the fact that "dub" is an abbreviation for "dubbing", as in "overdubbing"

But what you're saying is that "dub" is derived from "dub" - not helpful. The "dub" in "overdubbing" is, indeed, derived from "double" and the "dub" in "dub music" isn't really a new word so much as a re-use of that word in a new context.67.180.148.17 (talk) 17:27, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Dub poetry[edit]

Is dub poetry a big enough topic to have it's own page, or would a discussion fit better here? Zeimusu 14:08, 2004 Jun 28 (UTC)

Behold the a-answer Htaccess

New Zealand[edit]

Surprised not to see New Zealand featured in this article. Dub and reggae is huge part of their culture.

Requested move 21 October 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Participants have established that this form is standard on Wikipedia and used in sources. Cúchullain t/c 14:30, 30 October 2015 (UTC)



Dub (music)Dub music – This is the standard title format for music genre articles (see e.g. pop music or rock music); the current format instead indicates that dub is a feature of music, such as a specific technique or sound (see e.g. screaming (music) or programming (music)). --MASHAUNIX 14:15, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

  • Support per nom's sound analysis. --Cavarrone 16:58, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose because it's always referred to simply as 'dub', not 'dub music'. --Michig (talk) 20:33, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment generally just called dub, dub reggae even, will rarely hear the expression 'dub music' in fan discourse, but, some notable writing on the subject does use the term throughout, see Dub: Soundscapes and Shattered Songs in Jamaican Reggae for example. Semitransgenic talk. 22:19, 21 October 2015 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

I thought the idea was to establish consensus? It certainly wasn't established here. --Michig (talk) 18:04, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Two editors explicitly supported the move, with sound arguments, and a third offered evidence that the proposed title is in use in sources, which countered the one opposing argument. Consensus was established.--Cúchullain t/c 18:43, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Only four editors contributed, two of which state that 'dub music' is not the common name for the topic. --Michig (talk) 19:31, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
it doesn't look like a strong consensus, which is required to move a long standing article with a stable title, I commented because ultimately either would work, both are used. Technically, dub is also a feature of the music, that's the origin of the style, a dub version of a recorded work, so dub (music) is not too far of the mark. Semitransgenic talk. 21:07, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
I'll try to explain my reasoning a bit more. Move requests aren't votes; arguments, evidence and policy are what carry weight. I found the consensus here sufficient to move the article, especially considering that the supporters presented compelling arguments and the only opposing argument was effectively countered. The proposed title fits WP:AT policy: natural disambiguation is generally preferable to a title with a parentheses where available, even if it's less common, and the evidence presented here shows that "dub music" is in use in the sources. It was not a particularly strong local consensus, but a rough consensus supported by relevant policy is enough. If I thought leaving the discussion going longer could have found a different result I might have relisted, but I just don't see that happening.--Cúchullain t/c 16:08, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Jamaican Sound System[edit]

This section is very poorly written, confusing and redundant. Could someone please rewrite it (paying attention to the same info given elsewhere in the page)? 67.180.148.17 (talk) 17:31, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Name/Duppy[edit]

This touted connection between "dub" and "duppy" seems very speculative, especially as in decades of interest in Jamaican music, I don't think I've ever seen that connection made explicit on a record either audibly or in song or album titles. It's notable that neither the Lee Perry quote nor the title of Burning Spear's "Garvey's Ghost" album use the word duppy - they use the word ghost. I can completely see why the Burning Spear album is called Garvey's Ghost - both from the POV of the original vocal album being a tribute to Garvey and to Spear's vocals drifting in and out of the mix in the dub version - but I think John Corbett, whoever he is, is trying WAY too hard when the term so obviously derives from copying a recording onto another tape or an acetate - which was called a dub plate in Jamaica several years before the kind of creative mixing with echo etc. that we now think of as dub appeared. Steve Barrow's sleeve notes to the album "Dub Gone Crazy" (a compilation of dub mixes by dub pioneer King Tubby) contain a lengthy quote from producer Bunny Lee on the subject which makes clear that the word dub was being used in this context in Jamaica by the late 1960s at least. While there may be instances I'm unaware of where there the similarity of the two words is referenced in a record, given the history of the use of "dub" in Jamaican studio contexts it seems vanishingly unlikely that these wouldn't be making the connection AFTER the word dub was already being used for such mixes.[1]Freewheeling frankie (talk) 13:15, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

Electronic music[edit]

I've never seen dub as "electronic music" - it's usually some combination of drums, bass, guitar, piano, organ, horns and vocals. Wikipedia's article on Electronic music (which includes a section on dub which I similarly don't think belongs there) begins, "Electronic music is music that employs electronic musical instruments, digital instruments and circuitry-based music technology." Give or take the occasional presence of synthesizers in some reggae and dub records from circa 1974, dub doesn't usually contain electronic musical instruments, let alone digital ones, which didn't arrive in reggae until the 1980s. So presumably the definition of dub as electronic music is based on the third element in that sentence, circuitry-based music technology. Which covers a huge multitude of sins but in this context presumably refers to the use of reverb, echo, mixing desk channels, overdubbed sound effects etc. But ALL these elements are used to a greater or lesser extent in other, non-dub reggae recordings, and much other music that is not "electronic", just less ostentatiously than in dub. Even though I happily accept the description of the likes of Lee Perry and others "using the recording studio as an instrument", it's only a matter of degree. So where do you draw the line regarding when wild use of the mixer and on-board effects makes a music electronic? Surely by this definition, anything recorded through a mixing desk is electronic music. And that's before we get into the circuitry in instrument amplifiers ...

For me, electronic music starts with electronically generated sounds - i.e. synthesized, whether analog or digital. Dub (at least before reggae started going digital) is electric music, certainly, but not electronic. I'm not going to remove this reference but unless someone can come up with a good argument for what makes a dub version electronic while the vocal cut of the same tune on the A-side, recorded and mixed in the same studio, isn't, it really ought to go.Freewheeling frankie (talk) 17:11, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

No takers? If no one can give a well-argued reason why "King Tubby Meets Rockers Uptown" by Augustus Pablo is electronic music when "Baby I Love You So" by Jacob Miller isn't, the description of dub as "electronic music" should be removed from this article (and by extension the section on dub in the article on electronic music should be removed also) because it makes no sense to me. The two tracks I mention - dub and vocal mixes of the same recording - feature the same instrumentation and vocalist and were mixed in the same studio on the same equipment by the same engineer, the only distinction is the style of mixing, and I don't see how a "style of mixing" can make a recording electronic. Either both of them are electronic - and by extension nearly all popular music is because it's passed through a mixing desk - or neither is. There isn't an electronic instrument anywhere near it. The only electronic equipment used is the mixing desk, which is used on both versions. Note that I am not saying that NO dub is electronic, merely that dub as a genre is not electronic by definition.Freewheeling frankie (talk) 18:18, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

  1. ^ Steve Barrow, sleeve notes of "Dub Gone Crazy", Blood And Fire Records, BAFCD 002, February 1994