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Jesus, the more you know about Brian at the 70's the more you feel disturbed about all the things he did. Did he really had an affair with Diane? how did his wife took that? after all it was her sister, the one which was on a band too.
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The affair with Diane is upsetting. Regardless of how chill Marilyn was about it, it was clearly hurtful. Even the fact that they got married when she was 16 is troubling. And then to suggest early in your marriage that your teen wife see other men? The whole thing was messed up well before the 70’s.
But anyway, I give Marilyn, Diane, and Brian immense credit for finding a way to move past it all (especially Marilyn). People have held lifelong grudges over less, and the fact that they still care about each other says a lot about everyone involved. I guess that’s the positive to focus on. People do messed up shit, but they also have incredible capacity for compassion and forgiveness.
Yeah - the age gap was substantial and Brian was seeing her from when she was like 14 I think. Her parents were permissive of this because Brian was loaded and successful, they saw it as an opportunity. Pretty gross.. but I guess relatively mild in the scope of what many were doing at that time...
It wasn’t entirely that. The Rovells liked the Wilson boys genuinely. They had figured that Diane was Brian’s girl rather than Marilyn, who originally had a crush on Carl. It wasn’t until well after Brian had all but moved into the house that he and Marilyn became an item.
Also worth considering that there was a high level of antisemitism in that area at the time and the Wilsons were among the few people that weren’t openly antisemites at the time (Brian’s paranoia over Phil Spector made him say some pretty antisemitic things later, but he was open about how those things weren’t his real opinions and were a result of his mental illness).
Thank you for this. From everything I’ve heard about the Rovells, I never got the impression they were after Brian’s money—they seemed like very caring people who genuinely loved Brian and cared for their daughters. The age gap will always be an area of controversy because Marilyn WAS very young but something people don’t seem to know about is that for about another year after Brian first met Marilyn he was still seeing Judy Bowles and intended to marry her. We don’t know if he and Marilyn had been involved in that intervening time, and on top of that, as you mentioned, Brian liked Diane first. All this is to say there was definitely a lapse in time before he and Marilyn got together. That doesn’t diminish the fact she was still young, but I think these are important details to keep in mind.
Well, the point I wanted to make really was that the Rovells weren't that way. They used to let everyone sleep over there if they wanted to, they would feed them at any hour of the day, they'd do their laundry, they used to take the loose money that the boys would drop and put it in a jar for them in case they ever needed spare cash (the boys were not good with money and sometimes would be short of cash, so they'd come to the Rovells to collect some of that money from the jar). They were good folks. It's just important to remember too that a girl marrying at 16 to a 22 year old was not all that uncommon at that time period. Today, we would consider it largely unacceptable (and I think in California today it would actually be illegal because of age of consent law changes), but in those days, it simply wasn't. It's not fair to the Rovells to hold them to today's standard on that and to imply that they were only interested in Brian's money was simply not true.
What did he say and when? Do you have a source?
His quote was something along the lines of, "Phil Spector is Jewish and the director of the film he was seeing where he thought it was his life story (forgive me for not remembering) was Jewish and if one Jew asked another Jew for a favor, they would be obligated to help each other, right?" Brian thought Phil Spector was following him and that there was a Jewish conspiracy led by Spector to drive him insane... I can't remember where it was that he was interviewed (It may have been for The Guardian), but he said he was "fucked up" when it was brought up. I remember that very clearly.
Didn't Marilyn sue Brian this year? I don't know if they are on good terms now. And yeah, Brian was an absolute asshole at the 70's, he also had another girlfriend at that time called Deborah Keil, which was very young too. And yeah there are the things where he was with dildos in front of his kids or the parents had sex and the daughters saw it and one of the kids started jerking off or doing a blowjob to one of the Carl's sons, don't remember which one was and honestly don't want to lol... pretty fucked up things. I guess drugs are part of the blame but honestly, just makes me understand more why Mike Love hated Brian and Dennis, those two were absolutely trash people at that time.
For what it’s worth Deborah Keil has consistently maintained on smileysmile.net that she and Brian were friends at the time a lot of these alleged stories/rumors took place. She met him when she was (I believe?) 17 in 1969 and says he was very respectful of her and the rumors they had a sexual relationship were false. She’s the one Nick Kent is referring to in the article from the 80s (where he calls her Diane and says she looks to be about 16) when she would have actually been in her late 20s. I wouldn’t take much from that article seriously, Deborah talks about it a lot on smileysmile if you’re interested and basically debunks everything Kent said. As for Heroes and Villains (the book by Steven Gaines), according to a lot of people who were there, it’s heavily dramatized. A lot of it was hearsay/speculation, too.
thanks for your comment, we need more people like you and less butthurts. Can you please link the website where she said that? I also was assuming that Heroes and Villans was a bit over the top, but is good to hear one of the people there telling things. It was there were the affair with his sister in law rumour thing started i think
As soon as I can find the sources I’ll link them. Unfortunately just plugging in key words relevant to the topic on that site isn’t working for me right now and I can’t find the specific threads but there are multiple and I’m sure I’ll find them eventually. In general Debbie gives a lot of insight.
I don’t see the suing as a big deal. Maybe they had a falling out, I don’t know. But sometimes it’s better to let lawyers figure out who’s legally entitled to what than to try and sort it out yourself (which is likely to devolve into more anger and drudging up old wounds). It’s a lot of money to be making verbal agreements about, especially when you’ve got your ex-wife, current wife, and 7 kids (+ grandkids) that all have a stake in where the money ends up.
I honestly think this is the most likely scenario for this case.
I think Mike Love is overhated on this sub. He really saw some crazy, crazy shit over those years. He's not a fantastic person either, but I think it's totally understandable what he feels for them. Though we still need to remember that Brian was literally a crazy person, abusing drugs, and not going through any tipe of treatment.
I love to hate Mike Love, but ya, we can’t forget that the whole thing was fucking traumatic for him as well. He watched two of his cousins self-destruct for years. It’s no surprise that there is resentment there.
Well one cousin he very much mutually disliked, but he and Brian had been very close up until the Pet Sounds stuff started pushing them apart.
WTF is this story with one of Carl's sons, I haven't heard anyone talk about it
I have a friend that interviewed Mike Love . He did say that it was difficult seeing his cousin lost to drugs , fading away . All people want to talk about us how mike hated Smile. He gets a bad rap . Hard working leader , keeping the brand alive. Not everyone's favorite. I get that but he's not a durtbag .
Honestly didnt expect to see this much controversy on a theme like this one. But I guess Marylin wasn't angry about it, you know, with all of the "different" stuff they were into.
She was because she kicked her off their house and that ended the affair she had with Brian apparently:
Marilyn eventually banished Diane from their Bellagio home in late 1973. (Heores and Villans pag 265)
I guess he went back with Diane after his reclussive time since she appears in beach boys songs of that era like Had to phone ya (at the end she is the one saying hey brian lol)
the sister made a reunion with their old band the honeys at the 80's and 90's so i guess if there was bad blood between them it, they talked about it
That's quite a surprise for me, since I didn't read Heroes and Villains. I wonder why did Marylin draw the line there, though, with all the stuff she had agreed with...
I believe initially it was not so much that she didn’t have a problem with it, but that she at least knew Brian was safe with her sister. I can’t remember if that was in Heroes & Villains or if I read it somewhere else.
Didn't Marilyn have an affair with Rocky Pamplin in the late 70s? I guess that's why she couldn't stay mad at him going forward, they both cheated by that point.
The first part is definitely fucked up. I chalk it down to his mental state during the 70s, mixed with how crazy the 70s were for drugs and sex
As for the threesome thing, what's the issue here? Lots of people are into threesomes, even married couples. Especially in the 70s people experimented with polygamy and sexual freedom. If it's the other guy that you're finding weird then that's kinda messed up. Three ways with 2 dudes are not uncommon even with straight men, and even less uncommon for bi or bicurious men
Edit: idk why people are saying I was calling op homophobic. I was just saying that him and his wife having consentual sex with another man isn't nearly as bad as him going behind his wife's back. I didn't mean to come across as rude I just don't see how those 2 things compare
I guess mental illness and the drugs and times contributed to all of what happened with his marriage and affairs. Not saying that threesomes are bad or anything, it's just not a normal thing and I think is quite interesting. I don't know why you assumed I am homophobic or something that was a bit mean lol
Didn't mean to say that you were homophobic, just that if you were saying the dude was the issue then that would be a little offensive. When I see statements like that it's a solid 50/50 chance that it was either a harmless comment or a very intentional rude statement, didn't know which side you were on
You’d be surprised. It is a pretty normal thing.
So according to you, wanting to have sex with a woman who’s genetically unrelated to you is “fucked up” and not wanting another man to have sex with your wife is homophobic. Think about how insane that sounds for just a second.
Not sure how you managed to fuck up reading comprehension so badly but he's clearly saying that cheating on your wife with her own sister is fucked up, while having a consensual threesome is fine and does not warrant the wtf reaction OP was having - nothing to do with homophobia.
No shit on the first part Sherlock, but it’s not incest, like some blowing it up here. “If it’s the other guy you find weird that’s messed up.” And then he goes on to explain people half the time mean that as an “intentionally rude statement.” Being intentionally rude against the idea of sexual activity with men=homophobia. The OP felt that accusation too and brought it up.
You need to get your head out of your liberal internet bubble. Wanting to sleep with your in laws is fucked up, but if it’s two consensual adults it’s probably more common throughout history than morons like you who want other dudes sleeping with their wife/partner. If you had any self confidence or brains you probably would not see that so casually as “normal.”
Edit: Also, fuck you.
Amen brother, these stupid tik tok people are oversensitive and think Twitter is the real world. Doing threesomes with your wife isn't wrong but is not normal at all
I literally never said it was homophobic, I just thought it didn't warrant a "wtf" reaction. I bet a lot of rockstars from the time did this stuff. I'm not saying it's normal but if him and his wife both were up for it I don't see the big deal.
The fucked up part was mainly the affair, because affairs are fucked up. The same way that John Lennon cheating on Cynthia and writing a song about it was fucked up. The sister-in-law thing makes it a bit worse because cheating on someone with their relative is insult to injury
“If it’s the other guy you find weird that’s messed up.” So if I don’t want to have a consensual threesome with my woman and another dude that’s messed up? Oh because 50% of the time people mean that in an “intentionally rude” way. If you don’t mean homophobia (in this case because one doesn’t want sexual activity involving another dude), then what else do you mean by people being “rude”? The OP felt the accusation too. Wanting another dude to sleep with your girlfriend in front of you is not nearly as normal or commonplace as you claim.
And I don’t know why all of you keep bringing up consent. No shit! Sleeping with his sister in law (obviously rude) or threesomes with whoever because he’s insecure as shit, I’m sure Brian didn’t rape or force anyone to do anything. No need for you nerds to keep bringing it up like you just learned it in your buzzword of the day calendar.
You are very passionately angry about something that really doesn't matter
People bash Mike but Brian and Dennis were the ones living very deviant lifestyles.
Brian and Dennis were musicians. Hedonism is often the domain. If you’re looking at them for more than musical entertainment, it says a lot about yourself. Do I care that Brian wrote ‘Til I Die? Yes. Do I care that he fucked his sister-in-law? No. I’m not looking to a rock musician for moral guidance, I’m looking to them for their music. So what if he fucked her; it doesn’t detract from the melody in Warmth of the Sun for me.
So was Carl. He played more instruments than the other two (although Dennis caught up but didn't surpass him) and was the one who said when he left he'd come back on condition 1981 meant as much as 1961. He was musical director on stage from 1965 (or the beginning) to his death - that's 30 years if you discount his illness. Also main producer and arranger throughout the 1970s. Pretty musical, I'd say.
i am not judging brother in christ, sometimes is fun to know more about the personal life of those we admire
Cocaine
lmfao what’s wrong with a threesome with your wife and a dude? bruh go outside
yeah that is totally normal isn't it? something that every couple does! I guess you are the one that needs to touch some green grass if you think doing threesomes and having an open relationship is the norm nowdays. Twitter is not the real world, glass generation. Not saying that having an open relationship or doing whatever with your dick and vagina is wrong, but is not as casually normal as you trying to say it is... but for real, I am the only one curious about how was into that relationship too? c'mon join the gossip and stop being butthurts
nah i ain’t reading all that shit over a dude who had a threesome decades ago
then why you are here wasting your fucking time trying to give me your moral american teenager tik tok twitter superiority when i am not even saying anything lmao i mean is fine if you dont give a single fuck about the gossips of the beach boys but i dont understand why you are here then, not that i care that much honestly. have a good day
Ok so what’s the source that Brian got to sleep with Diane? From what I can tell it’s always been just a lot of circumstantial evidence and no Smoking Gun.
I’ve always been curious if it’s true. Doesn’t anyone have an actual quote from a reliable source?
Basically the book Heroes and villans. I doubt Brian or the sister are gonna come and say "yeah we had a relationship with this dude at the same time"... also, he made a song about her, i think it happened for sure after reading all of that
Basically? What does it say? I’ve read the book and don’t remember it confirming anything directly. Just because Marilyn drove Diane off doesn’t mean that there was an affair. Brian writing live songs and openly desiring Diane alone would make most women territorial. Doesn’t mean he sealed the deal.
We know a lot about the scandalous aspects of The Beach Boys. All I’m saying is I still haven’t seen anything conclusive as far as this is concerned.
Diane Rovell is one of the people that contributed to the book.
Pages 249 and 280, and apparently at Fifty sides of the Beach Boys : the songs that tell their story at page 108 is talked. Stebbins's book also talks about My Diane saying that the song was talking about his affair with the sister
I quote the book:
"Still, Marilyn was more than generous with and loyal to Diane, sharing everything with her, including the love of her husband." A few pages later he writes about a time where she got inside the house and found debbie and it all ended in an argument. Of course we can't confirm this kind of gosspis unless brian or the sisters say something, but you know they either don't remember anything or don't care at their age. You either belive this or don't, but based on the things we know about his life I think this was a sure thing. The book has been criticize for manipulating information or whatever so it might be or not true at all at this point, but you just cant doubt about any information because what do we can belive after all? brian who is mentally ill since the 60's?
Tbh Mike Love is better than 70s Brian
Well, I don't know, he was a wife beater with like two of his old wifes lol
Jesus it just keeps getting worse
yeah, and if you read heroes and villans you would be amazed of how much you can hate Dennis Wilson lol
Oh ik, I’ve only read about Dennis
They were consenting adults. Grow up a little
While is true that they did whatever they wanted i find it very strange to find out that Brian has been obsessed with the sister of his wife for like 15 years and had multiple threesomes with his wife. That is not normal let me tell you that. I am just asking for more info on the subject for pure curiosity and you come here with your mike love's apple juice attitude.
The sister thing is bordering on incest so that is weird. The threesome thing… you’re just kink shaming. I agree… grow up. Just because it’s not normal doesn’t mean there’s something inherently wrong with it.
Incest? Buy a dictionary, please.
I guess he might not be a native english speaker and he understood that I was talking about an hypotetical step sister lol
I said bordering. Have you ever been to a family gathering? Your sister in law will be there, right?
Never said it was wrong, and I am not kink shaming anyone, read again, I just think it is pretty fucked up with how their relationship was at the moment and I am sure that was one of the things that complicated the marriage more. It's quite interesting to know all of this about the band tho.
Sheesh.. who cares..
Chill what did you expect
We all care about the personal life of the beach boys, otherwise we wouldnt be here reading and posting strange facts like that time Brian walked around his daughters with a gigantic dildo. It's fun and interesting to know these facts even if it is just to have a bit of fun reading those.
Yeah okay whatever. You’re clearly just using the fact that you “care” as an excuse to be judgemental af. You don’t and never will know what he went through.
You don't know me at all child, and you don't know Brian to talk like you were one of his daughters, so shout your mouth, I am not judgemental on anything. I find joy in reading bizarre shit rockstar did, I actually recommend you to read Heroes and Villans from Steven Gaines. Get a job.
The threesome thing is whatever, a lot of couples have threesomes so eh, but it reminds me of some rumours about Brian being bisexual or at the least bicurious. Idk if it’s true but it’s interesting to think about
The cringe threesome comment has been edited and removed from the og post now. Guess the op realised how narrow minded they sounded.
I removed It because I can't stand Twitter kids like you accusing me of shit I am not. The comment was literally just "and he had a threesome with his wife? Wtf", apparently you and a lot of cucks here enjoy watching their partner doing things with other people, nothing wrong but is not normal like you try to put here on your Twitter narrative fantasy. Also don't call me they, fuck that shit, use english like a normal people
You should probably consider getting a therapist.. there is a lot to unpack here.
Bro shut up you even know what youre talking about
I don’t know about Brian being bisexual but on the other hand I’d say Carl might have been? It’s just the vibe I get from all the interviews and his softly spoken voice.only my opinion - no shade:
in any case I havent read that Carl was a womaniser
This serious discussion was taken over by a bunch of idiots with a stupid agenda. Who the hell cares who did what with whom after all these years. Who cared then? Nobody. Get back to the subject and stop bickering.