A subreddit for the Netflix sci-fi thriller series Dark. When two children go missing in a small German town, its sinful past is exposed along with the double lives and fractured relationships that exist among four families as they search for the kids.
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The question is not when, the question is WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK
The question is that is there even a question or is every question an answer or are there no questions or answers or are questions and answers are the same thing? May be I am asking too many answers, may be these answers have no questions! What do I know, I only had 3 brain cells, one I spent on season 1, two on season 2, will need to borrow three more next year.
How do I delete another user's comment?
My brain just broke. Thanks. Lol
I'm just got to jot some things down to even start to figure out what the hell we just saw.
So. The ending.
Adam (Deep Fried Old Jonas) murders Martha in front of Young Jonas. He leaves Young Jonas sobbing over her corpse and tells him he has a choice, to try to save her or to stop Adam. Young Jonas stays with Martha as she dies.
Clausen opens up the time particle goo containers that were discovered to contain the God Particle back in 1986 and which got buried in concrete (someone help with this because I've never been able to follow the radioactive container story line).
In 2053 Old Elisabeth turns on her dark matter bubble machine.
In 1921 Old Franziska and Old Magnus turn on their dark matter bubble machine.
In 2020 the time particle goo escapes containment and is reformed into a dark matter bubble. It collapses.
The 2020 bunker is full - Peter, Young Elisabeth, 1987 Claudia, Regina, and Young Noah.
Middle Jonas uses the time machine to turn on a new time bubble which engulfs 2019 Magnus, Franziska, and Bartosz.
Time particle fairy lights begin to glow in the caves and Katherina is able to follow them to the carved time door, which she opens.
In the plant, the time bubble reforms and turns into a portal between 2053 and 2019. Old Elisabeth and her mom/daughter Charlotte reach out to touch each other between space and time.
The whole fucking thing collapses, creating a giant time bubble over the plant, which explodes and causes the apocalypse.
While this is happening Young Jonas, who has stayed with the now dead Martha while the world ends, is found by Martha 2, new and improved with a new hairstyle and a new time/reality golden device. She says she's not who he thinks she is and tells him to follow her an that the right question isn't when she is from but which world.
Whew... so.... biggest note from all this...
Young Jonas's decision. He made his choice, which was to save to try and save Martha. He failed. Was this the choice he always made, the one that led him to become Adam? Or was this a new choice?
Does Martha 2 always save Young Jonas? Good question. Jonas house got rocked in the explosion, which likely would have killed him. Something had to save him from dying right there, so does Martha 2 always show up to save him? Or is this something new as well?
What happens to Charlotte and Old Elisabeth after the touch? Do they switch worlds? Are they dead? Do they travel? We saw a death cross for Woller in episode 1, but not Charlotte as I recall. I think most likely here is Charlotte ends up switching to the 2053 world and Old Elisbeth takes her place and dies (
that's how Season 1 ended with Young Helge and Young Jonas touchingactually as said below Season 1 ends with the touch pushing Young Jonas to 2053 and Young Helge to 1986).Where do Middle Jonas and the 2019 kids travel to? Do they go back to 1921? Is this how Middle Jonas becomes Adam? I assume everyone in the bunker is now safe, but how the hell well those five get along?
And of course, where the hell is Martha 2 taking Young Jonas?
I would like to state that "Deep Fried Old Jonas" is the best thing I've ever heard!
You would think that if Martha2 always saved young Jonas, that MediumJonas would have mentioned it. I think we are moving to New area. And the calendar in episode 1 where a say gets marked that didn't always get marked may be evidence.
I was thinking that too, but then how would middle Jonas have survived the apocalypse when he experienced it as young Jonas? I like the idea that many worlds Martha finally breaks the loop but then I’m not sure how the even plays out otherwise.
We also still don't know when/how Young Jonas aged into Middle Jonas (where did he spend those years?), how Middle Jonas became Old Jonas (although that looks like it may happen with him taking the 2019 kids into the future and they are likely the founders of Sic Mundus), or how Middle Claudia became Old Claudia (although it looks like she may live through the apocalypse from 2020 through 2053).
Since Martha 2 clearly comes from some alternate world, it could be possible that her showing up is the first real “new” event that breaks the looping timeline. Since she doesn’t originate from and isn’t bound by that timeline, her showing up might have been the first thing to happen to young Jonas that middle Jonas wouldn’t remember himself.
Except as others have pointed out, Middle Jonas had to have survived the apocalypse. Presumably, Adam shooting Martha is the event that Middle Jonas refers to when he says he watched Martha die before. And Adam says he knows which choice Young Jonas would make (trying to save Martha).
So I suspect Young Jonas being saved by Martha 2 (who is "not who [he] thinks she is") leads to him becoming Middle Jonas, and Middle Jonas saving the young squad will eventually turn him into Adam. Adam talks about creating a new world, which i assume is where Martha 2 comes from. So I think everything is just moving forward. Young Jonas and Middle Jonas will realize that they need to start the new world to create the Martha 2 that saves Young Jonas.
This! This fits pretty so well the direction the series is taking. There hasn't been any evidence that anyone can change any outcome whatsoever, other than when Claudia says "I've been to a world without you" or something like that to Jonas, but Martha 2.0 makes it look like it's literally another world.
I like that idea more than Martha 2 breaking the cycle
I think Katherina didn’t travelled in time but in another dimension. Because when she open the door in the caves the light is yellow/orange like the light that the device of the Martha 2 is producing..
Woah, but how come the cave suddenly became a dimension hopping device instead of a time travel one?
Maybe both god particles being activated at the same time, as well as the cave tunnel being opened? So much energy it just pops you into another dimension.
You mean Martha?
Yes you are right! Corrected above.
You missed a Hannah.
would love to give you gold but im broke
Came here to post the exact same thing. About the whole season. What a mind fuck of a show.
You just won the season two discussion threads, congratulations
So...Noah killed Yasin beacause he was Elizabeth's boyfriend? Wow chill out dude
Wait, I just realized, Noah is both father and son in law of Charlotte, he is brother in law and grandfather of Franziska, boyfriend and grandfather of Elisabeth, Charlotte is mother and daughter of Elisabeth, and she is daughter and mother of Charlotte, Peter is father in law and son in law of noah, and on top of that, if Noah is brother of Agnes, her son Tronte is the grandfather of Mikkel, and Mikkel is the father of Jonas, that Jonas and noah are in some way family
What a mindfuck show
Edit: I forgot one thing, Noah is the grandson in law of him fucking self
And none if them have six fingers or a second head
Well then, I guess that can only lead to one conclusion, incest, like, really fucked up incest, Alabama type incest, doesn’t cause mutations, so it’s ok to bang your grandmother, or even your mother if you’re kinky enough
And they're all standing around some crazy radioactive shit in rubber suits that are totally inadequate
Hey mom! It's me, your mom.
This seriously should be this shows tagline
Praise to you for figuring all of the “who is the parent of who” in this show. My mind is still warped on this.
Hannah is in 1954 eye-fucking Egon and we still don't know who Regina's father was. There is still a lot of potential mind-fuckery going on.
We also don’t know who Tronte’s (Ulrich’s dad, Jonas’ grandpa) father is either. His mom is Agnes, sister of Noah, so it’s bound to be messed up. Though I can’t imagine it being more messed up than Charlotte and Elisabeth.
I reeeally need a S2 updated family tree
Found this one: https://c-8oqtgrjgwu37x24ekoix2evx78iefpx2epgv.g00.tvguide.com/g00/3_c-8yyy.vx78iwkfg.eqo_/c-8OQTGRJGWU37x24jvvrux3ax2fx2fekoi.vx78iefp.pgvx2fkx2f4231x2f28x2f44x2fd306128e-282f-6g25-178e-8c586de519g2x2ffctm-hcokna-vtgg-ugcuqp-4-hkpcn.rpix3fk32e.octmx3dkocig_$/$/$/$/$/$/$
at this blog: https://www.tvguide.com/amp/news/dark-how-everything-connected-netflix/
What worries me are the missing links. This is like the Marvel edit team who cut the trailers. They cut out pieces that can clarify things.
Who is Peter's father?
What is happening with Woller and Benni?
Tannhaus in 1953 looked like he was in his 30s. So does he have some role in the 1920 era as well?
Where the hell did Aleksander come from?
And the biggest question of all! What the fuck happened to Woller's eye. We came so close to find out. But then damned Claudia came in and ruined the whole thing!
I was having a glass of water when I read this and then I choked
I was starting to like Noah, before it turned out he's an incestuous grandpa
💀💀💀
Just when you thought it was difficult to recognize all the characters faces through the different time periods imagine trying to memorize all the character faces trough time periods AND other dimensions
season 3 is gonna be a fun ride
It seems like Magnus and Fransizka are part of the Travelers lol.
I wonder in what timeline or universe did Noah and Elisabeth Doppler concieve Charlotte... I guess Elisabeth had a reverse Mikkel situation.
I had some questions answered but I still have more questions than answers at this point lol
I still think that Bartosz was the guy that young Noah axed in the beginning of the season. That means that all of them were travelers.
I thought this too! This show its truly a masterpiece. It's everything art is.
It pisses me off that a masterpiece like this gets almost no recognition whatsoever
Im trying to rechart all the character relationships and it is tough! Hhaa.
I could be totally wrong, but I think all 4 families have a loop parentage. There are some things still hidden from us but heres how I see it.
Nielsen - Magnus Nielsen and Franceska Doppler Have Agnes and Noah as their kids as we seem them in the 1921 time period. Agnes has son Tronte Nielsen. Tronte has son Ulrich. Ulrich has son Magnus. Completing the loop.
Doppler - (Charlotte side) Franceska has Noah as we see in 1921, he at some point has Charlotte with Elizabeth from the future, who then has Elizabeth and Franceska completing the loop and reinforcing the link between families.
Doppler - Peter side is still unclear. Is Bernd actually Helges father. Is Peter actually Helges kid? Who is his mother etc. Really the doppler name may get lost temporarily in the loop with Charlotte but the blood remains
Tiedeman - Egon has Claudia, who has Regina (unknown father), keeps family name. Regina has Bartosz with Aleksandr/Boris Niewald (Likely unrevealed future kid from Nielsen Khanwald fam) again family name is kept.
(Bartosz i believe will end up being the one who loops back his family but not sure with who. Possibly he is Reginas mother/his own grandfather as 86 Claudia dissapears well before Bartosz is born and maybe Regina knows nothing about him. He could also be Egons dad with a changed name and Tronte could be Reginas dad linking their fams more.)
Khanwald - this one is sort of a false one as it is just the Nielsen family really.
Mikkel Nielsen is adopted by Ines Khanwald and takes the name. Has Jonas Khanwald. Jonas likely has unrevealed child who will fit one of the remaining blank pieces.
The whole Magnus + Fran = Noah and Agnes thing I am interperating based on season 2. But it is not directlt revealed at all so it might be incorrect
I think Helge isn't Bernd's kid. Greta is always cold toward Helge and she mentions to Noah that Helge might not be Bernd's.
Maybe Bernd is infertile or whatever, but if he isn't Helge's father, I wonder who is?
P.S, Claudia's mother is Doris Tiedemann, but she frequently cheats on Egon with Agnes Nielsen.
I felt so bad for Egon this season, and Noah as well. I'm glad it delved into those characters more.
Also not totally sure but Tronte Nielsen might be Regina's father because he had an affair with Claudia.
Me too. I was glad they had a scene where young Claudia tells him he's too good for this world, because he seemed to get dumped on a lot despite trying to do his job honestly. He seems to be to be a fundamentally decent person, despite missing the mark sometimes (e.g. entertaining suspicions of Satanism).
I didn't feel sorry for Noah, although he did turn out to be more morally complex than he seemed. He still abducted and killed children.
At this point I'm convinced if you kill any random person too early back in 1921 everyone else in the story just dies.
It’s eerie how similar old Magnus looks to young Magnus.
The casting was absolutely spot on!
In the end, Elisabeth and young Noah end up in the bunker before the apocalypse. Noah is actually not that much older, he looks like in his late teens or early twenties at most, while Elisabeth is about 12. Ten years is nothing. I guess they spend a lot of time together after the apocalypse, fall in love, Charlotte is born, then somehow taken away from them, goes back in time and ends up with Tannhaus.
Makes sense. I'd assume Jonas/Adam took Charlotte from them and kicked her back to the 80s and left her with his pawn Tanhaus. He kept Charlotte as leverage on Noah to have him do dirty work.
I don’t think Charlotte ever travels in time as kid. I think that the people in the bunker travel to 1954, where Noah and Elisabeth soon start a love affair. Young Charlotte as we see her in 1986 is probably ~15 y/o, which means she would have been born around ~1971. At that point, Noah and Elisabeth would be ~34 and ~27 y/o (which is the age they look like in the picture with baby Charlotte). Also, the picture is in colour, which means it could have only been taken during that cycle (ruling out the time after 2020 because post-apocalyptic Winden really doesn’t look like the place to give birth to a child).
Nobody knocks on doors at an appropriate volume in this show.
I noticed that too. The way to enter a house in Winden is to repeatedly bang on the door while shouting the name of the inhabitant and demanding that they let you in.
So everyone in Winden is everyones Drunken ex's got it.
BANG BANG BANG
"KATHERINA, LET ME IN!" BANG BANG BANG "I NEED TO BORROW SOME SUGAR! I'M MAKING CAKES!"
BANG BANG BANG
true. It was like "YOU BETTER OPEN THE FUCKING DOOR YOU MISERABLE PIECE OF SHIT!... oh hello"
right? why they’re always knocking so angrily on Hannah’s door? for Gods sake
Well, after the things Hannah did and will do, I would be angry too.
because knowing Hannah she's probably fucking your husband or covering some shit
This show is without a doubt one of the greatest things I’ve seen.
I have no idea what the fuck is happening but man do I love it.
Agreed.
It would be fantastic if the creators release a huge novel after season 3 and were like "but hey nerds, what really came first, the novel or the show? Chicken or egg?"
The story is just too intricate to not be from some amazing novel. I've never seen a show that was nearly this convoluted to not have a book behind it?
Regardless. Hands down. Best. Show. Ever.
This is so true, if it didn't come from a book then it may be the best original show I've ever seen
Great show. Didn't expect to come away from this season feeling sympathy for Noah.
I had exactly the same reaction! In the last few episodes, I noticed that he somewhat had a change of mind, and I actually began to really like him going into the eighth episode, so I nearly shed a tear, seeing how he went.
When he kills Carol to retrieve the last pages of his book, and is in disbelief at what he reads I knew there was something going on. Then he outright lies to Adam about having the pages and that pretty much sealed that he was just a good guy being lied to
You mean Claudia?
You mean the guy who was kidnapping and killing children?
Yeah he was a pretty good dude other than that. Lmao.
Yes, they really gave his character a lot of depth.
When I finished S1 I thought he was the devil incarnate!
The theme of parental sacrifice is strong throughout the series, and it’s now been revealed that it applies to Noah, too.
I wonder how the blackmail for Charlotte’s life and her subsequent surrender started, and also why Agnes turned on him, too.
Young noah has such puppy dog eyes it’s no wonder
Man the fact Noah has a loop where he realizes hes been played. Cant tell his younger self but assures him he knows what must be done now. Younger self leaves with full confidence as older self is killed. Oof.
Insurance!
I loved how this was done. It made me think about a bunch of possibilities. He was pretty straight forward in saying to young Noah that it wouldn't make sense to him if he told him, and that things wouldn't happen if he did. The idea that 'The future affects the past' permeates this show a lot and there are instances where there are seemingly metaphysical (or maybe through extreme physics) that ideas and pre cognitiont type memories (deja vu) get thrown in. In this scene I almost got a sense that the closer he got to his demise the more he realized how it was going to go down through this. Similar to how Egon sort of become more aware and realized his inevitable demise as the memories of his past self were changed by future events/influence, right up until the moment of his death (what a powerful scene). It's a bit of a stretch, but Noah obviously didn't have the complete picture.
I say this because when shit went down with Noah he was genuinely surprised and naive.
There could be a lot of other explanations regarding this, though.
I just finished, and my brain is even more broken than after season 1. How on earth will there be a conclusion? And what in the actual censored for good reasons is going on? I am that close of creating my own mindmap with strings to maybe comprehed the clusterf***. Holy cow, the writing is incredible, i need some god damn cigaretts to relax my brain, because it's thinking to fast in a 1000 different ways...
This series outdid itself and it's sci-fi predecessors. Every inch of this show just geta deeper and deeper and stays consistent with the rules within the universe and then fucks it backwards and makes it make sense. It's art. The fact that this show is under the radar blows my mind. It's so beautiful. It gives me an AKIRA vibe minus the psychic abilities. This show just takes everything. I'm left empty inside after this experience.