'at the/ on the' top of the stairs/ table/ building .... | WordReference Forums

'at the/ on the' top of the stairs/ table/ building ....

Hotmale

Hotmale

Senior Member
Polish
Hello :)
I've checked the meaning and usage of the word "top" in Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary and it gave me a few examples, all under one entry:

a) She waited for me at the top of the stairs.
b) There were flags on the tops of many of the buildings.
c) There was a pile of books on top of (= on) the table.

I don't understand why in a) there is at the top in b) on the tops and in c) on top, without the article "the". Could someone explain it to me, please?

Thank you :)
 
    • Hotmale said:
    Hello :)
    I've checked the meaning and usage of the word "top" in Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary and it gave me a few examples, all under one entry:

    a) She waited for me at the top of the stairs.
    b) There were flags on the tops of many of the buildings.
    c) There was a pile of books on top of (= on) the table.

    I don't understand why in a) there is at the top in b) on the tops and in c) on top, without the article "the". Could someone explain it to me, please?

    Thank you :)
    Click to expand...

    Hi, Hotmale. I'm sorry to say that there are many inexplicable idiomatic uses like these in English, and the Cambridge Learners Dictionary has just given you a sample.
    I think we say 'at' the top of the stairs because this 'top' is an area. If you were standing on the top step of a ladder, I would say you were 'on the top step', not 'at' it.
    We say 'on the tops' because the noun is plural (I know that is not much of an explanation!).
    'On top' is sort of an antonym to 'underneath', and doesn't require the 'the'.
    Perhaps someone else could give a more satisfactory (and learned) explanation. :)
     
    Thank you, Elwintee. Your answer is very helpful :)

    Am I right in thinking that I cannot say "on the top of the stairs" becuause stairs have no tops?
     
    Hotmale said:
    Thank you, Elwintee. Your answer is very helpful :)

    Am I right in thinking that I cannot say "on the top of the stairs" becuause stairs have no tops?
    Click to expand...

    Stairs don't have tops, they have 'treads' (the flat part you put your foot on) and 'risers' (the vertical part at the back of each tread). The 'top' (singular only) of the stairs refers to what is usually a square or rectangular area beyond which there are corridors or rooms. I suppose in a vast mansion with multiple staircases you might say 'There were statues and pictures at the tops of the stairs', but this would still refer to the flat areas at the higher level.
     
    No, I didn't know that :D

    I've got one more question regarding "top".
    Can I say: "put the books on (the) top of the table?
     
    I would use "on top of [X]" and "on the top of [X]" differently.

    I stuck the address label on the top of the box.
    On the top of the cake was written "Happy Birthday Wanda June".
    BUT
    This box contains fragile glassware, so do not put those heavy books on top of it.
    I nearly put the platter on top of the cake, but luckily Mary saw what was about to happen and warned me in time.
     
    But why, GreenWhiteBlue, on the top of the box, and not at the top of the box. I've analysed Elwintee's posts and uderstood it like in case "at the top of the stairs" that "top" in this example is thought of as an area.
    So, what's the difference between "box" and "stairs" in this respect? Aren't they both areas?
     
    Hotmale said:
    But why, GreenWhiteBlue, on the top of the box, and not at the top of the box. I've analysed Elwintee's posts and uderstood it like in case "at the top of the stairs" that "top" in this example is thought of as an area.
    So, what's the difference between "box" and "stairs" in this respect? Aren't they both areas?
    Click to expand...

    A box (or a table, or a refrigerator...) has an uppermost flat surface upon which something may be placed. Saying that one is placing something on the top of a box does not specify exactly where one is placing it other than somewhere on that flat uppermost surface. "At the top" suggests much more strongly a single point or place that is not necessarily a level surface.

    There is a wonderful observation deck on the top of the General Electric Building in Rockefeller Center called "Top of the Rock".

    At the top of the flagpole flew the national flag, with the city's own flag flying underneath it.
     
    I would look at it this way - in "at the top of the stairs", "top" is really functioning as a noun - it is a specific place where you could stand. More specifically, "the top of the stairs" is a noun phrase modified by the preposition "at".

    In "the book is on top of the table", the phrase "on top of" is functioning as a preposition, telling you where the book is in relation to the table. Grammatically, you could replace it with other preposiitons, such as, "the book is below the table" or "the book is near the table".
     
    Hotmale

    Prepositions are difficult in English, as in other languages. One can try to rationalize them, but essentially, one just has to learn them in context.
     
    KenInPDX said:
    I would look at it this way - in "at the top of the stairs", "top" is really functioning as a noun - it is a specific place where you could stand. More specifically, "the top of the stairs" is a noun phrase modified by the preposition "at".

    In "the book is on top of the table", the phrase "on top of" is functioning as a preposition, telling you where the book is in relation to the table. Grammatically, you could replace it with other preposiitons, such as, "the book is below the table" or "the book is near the table".
    Click to expand...

    Aha, that's a fresh angle in the discussion. Thank you :)
     
    sdgraham said:
    Hotmale

    Prepositions are difficult in English, as in other languages. One can try to rationalize them, but essentially, one just has to learn them in context.
    Click to expand...

    Yes, I know that. I try to rationalize them as much as I can. When I can't, I just give up :)
     
    GreenWhiteBlue said:
    I would use "on top of [X]" and "on the top of [X]" differently.

    1. I stuck the address label on the top of the box.
    2. On the top of the cake was written "Happy Birthday Wanda June".
    BUT
    3. This box contains fragile glassware, so do not put those heavy books on top of it.
    4. I nearly put the platter on top of the cake, but luckily Mary saw what was about to happen and warned me in time.
    Click to expand...
    Is it because "the address label" and "Happy Birthday Wanda June" directly contact "the box" and "the cake" respectively that "on the top of" is used in 1 and 2?
    But in 3 and 4, there is something between the glassware and the books, and the cake and the platter, so "on top of" is used. Right?
     
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