Curb Your Enthusiasm’s Susie Essman, EP Talk Subverting Seinfeld’s Finale and Running ‘Back Into the Burning Building’
It’s time we finally stop lamenting that disappointing Seinfeld ending.
In Sunday’s series finale of Curb Your Enthusiasm, the real-life Larry David doubled-down on his former sitcom’s “they all go to jail” ending knowing damn well what his audience thought of it. As his character faced a courtroom of his peers for breaking a Georgia polling law, a multitude of past acquaintances traveled to Atlanta to take the witness stand and share some of the most cringeworthy stories about his unsavory behavior. What followed was a laundry list of past atrocities, as heaps of characters from Curb’s past returned with a vengeance. L.D. was eventually found guilty and thrown in the slammer, but after a juror was found to have broken his sequester, the entire case was declared a mistrial and Larry’s sentencing was thrown out. (Read our detailed finale recap here.)
Below, executive producer/writer/director Jeff Schaffer and star Susie Essman talk to TVLine about subverting the Seinfeld finale, the magical friendship between David and Richard Lewis, and what it feels like to finally say goodbye.
TVLINE | How far in advance was this Seinfeld-ian ending in the works?
JEFF SCHAFFER | We didn’t start the season saying, “Alright, here’s what we’re gonna do.” In fact, we didn’t come up with this idea till July and I think we started writing in January, February of ’22. We were honestly just working on a story about Larry not wanting to get involved in having a kid learn a lesson. And we were talking about that story and were sort of acting it out. Larry’s saying like, “I’m 76 years old. I’ve never learned a lesson in my life,” and we knew that a trial was a possible way that this would go, but we didn’t necessarily think we’re going to end with a trial. We just knew that a crime had been committed. He may have to be in court. But it gave us the opportunity to do a trial and own that we’re doing this meta joke that Larry’s never learned a lesson. And here it is, the Seinfeld finale everyone’s been asking for… again! Knowing that we were going to run back into the burning building made us laugh and it also became about Larry going, “You didn’t like it before? I don’t give a s–t. I’m doing it again, motherf–kers! Enjoy seconds.”
SUSIE ESSMAN | The whole theme of the show for 12 seasons has been that he never learns a lesson.
SCHAFFER | It felt organic and then it somehow felt ambitious in its laziness, too. Then we went back and started to seed in the scripts comments about the [Seinfeld] finale and that there’s going to be a trial. As the show started to roll through its episodes, people started to realize that this might be a possibility and that slow roll towards this inevitability has been very fun to watch. Watching people go, “They’re not really gonna do that. They wouldn’t do that!”
TVLINE | When did Jerry Seinfeld come on board and what was his opinion of the ending?
SCHAFFER | He was in instantly. After we shot that jail scene, he was excited. He said, “This is a joke that’s 26 years in the making! When do you get a chance to do that?” So he was on board. It was so great having him on the show. It was a really special way to wrap up.
TVLINE | Susie, what was your first reaction when you found out how it was going to end?
ESSMAN | I thought it was brilliant. I remember Larry called me and he told me and I thought, “Oh, wow!” I don’t know how you end a show like this. It could have ended with just another episode. I have read things that Larry said that he was never going to do a special finale or a special ending, but this just seemed like the most brilliant way to, as Jeff said, not just to wrap up Curb, but to wrap up Larry’s arc starting in 1990-whatever, and come full circle with it. I thought was brilliant.
SCHAFFER | It ends up being about Larry himself, right? And the contrarian DNA that flows through his veins. It became bigger than the show, but it was also important for us that it was a funny show, a funny episode of Curb.
ESSMAN | It stands alone as an episode of Curb, not just as the finale. You could watch this 20 years from now and it’s just an episode of Curb. It doesn’t have to be the finale.
TVLINE | During one of his stand-up sets in October, Jerry had teased that something tied to the Seinfeld finale was coming. Were you ever worried that fans would figure out where Curb was heading after he revealed that?
SCHAFFER | What we started to realize was even if people thought we were going to be doing the Seinfeld finale, that was OK.
ESSMAN | It didn’t really matter.
SCHAFFER | When you watch the show, you’re watching through covered eyes going, “Larry’s not really gonna engage with this person, is he?” Or, “Larry’s not gonna come back and re-engage with this person, is he? Larry’s not gonna really ask Allison Janney how she [attempted] suicide. He would never do that.”
ESSMAN | You know what, Jeff? It’s like watching it through eclipse glasses!
SCHAFFER | It’s a total eclipse of morality! But you’re watching these things and you’re going, “Oh no, he’s not gonna do that.” What we had the opportunity to do here was to do that over a season. It became fun to take it all the way. “Oh my God, they’re doing the trial! Oh my God, he just got arrested! Oh my God, he got sentenced! Oh my God, he’s in jail repeating something from the very first episode of Curb, just like Seinfeld! Oh my gosh, the camera’s pulling back, that’s crazy!” And then we get to subvert it. ESSMAN | If you never saw Seinfeld and never saw the ending, this would still be a satisfying end to Curb.
SCHAFFER | Because the Curb stories always come back around. The bad sequester. The Mexican restaurant jokes. It feels like a Curb show where the ending wraps everything up in a good way. It was very important for us after that moment and the touching on Larry and Jerry and the legacy, to say goodbye to our cast and see them doing what they do best.
TVLINE | Fighting, of course! Susie, what was the vibe like on the last day of filming?
ESSMAN | We were working. It was a long day. We were on the plane set, all the way out in the middle of nowhere. It was a schlep. We had a lot to get done, so you’re not thinking about, at least for me it wasn’t on my mind, that this was the last day. A couple of people said it. It was like, “Yeah, alright, but I have to change wardrobe. I have to go do this. I have to get a touch–up. I have to whatever.” It wasn’t until the very end, and it was late, I believe, that there, for me, became an awareness. It’s like, “I’m never going to do this again. I’m never going to work with these people again. This is goodbye.” So then it felt sad and yet joyous all at once because we’ve all been together for so many years and we’ve had so much fun together and we’ve created so much content together. I don’t see anything to be so sad about. To me it’s all a positive, everything that we’ve done.
TVLINE | A celebration.
ESSMAN | Yeah!
SCHAFFER | I was so worried about getting the last scene right. And then we basically had it and that idea did creep in, like, “When I say cut here, we’re going to be done.” I definitely did some extra takes just because I wasn’t ready to cut. Like, “Do we need to do it again? No, probably not.” We had it, but it was just hard to say goodbye.
TVLINE | Were there any former guest stars that you reached out to that you wanted to appear at the trial, but didn’t get?
SCHAFFER | No. Everybody we reached out to was available. Rachel Heineman, the ski lift lady [played by Iris Bahr], came in from Israel to do it which was amazing. She was so funny. And some of them we banked, like Tracey Ullman and Bruce Springsteen. They weren’t there due to both of their concert schedules. The real decision was just what do we show? How much do we show? How clip-oriented do we get? Who comes on? Because we don’t want it to feel like a clip show. It’s not a “Best of.” This is a Curb episode.
ESSMAN | In all of the seasons that I’ve been doing this show, I can’t tell you how many huge stars that I’ve run into at different places who have begged me to get them on the show. I mean, this is a show that everybody wants to be on. So, I don’t think there’s anybody, knowing especially that it was the final season, that was gonna say no to this.
SCHAFFER | Susie’s been our great talent wrangler because she walks around New York and she bumps into [Steve] Buscemi. Buscemi’s like, “I love the show.” Susie tells us Buscemi loves the show. We’re like, “OK, we’ve got a great part for Buscemi,” and then he comes out and kills it. She’s like one of those people that works at a modeling agency that walks around malls like a talent scout. This is what she’s doing in New York City.
TVLINE | I was so sorry to hear about Richard Lewis’ passing. Do either of you have any fond memories or funny stories about filming this finale with him?
ESSMAN | Oh, God. The memories of Lewis, over all the seasons, they’re legendary. This episode, I’m thinking… Jeff, can you think of any?
SCHAFFER | There are certain things that can only happen when Larry and Lewis are together because they’re such old friends and they just push each other’s buttons. There’s this great back and forth where Richard says, “You ruined my chance to have love! I want a family,” and Larry goes, “What? You’re gonna have a family?” Richard goes, “I’ll adopt.” “What are you gonna adopt, a 40-year-old?” “Yeah, a doctor and a lawyer!” That’s not in a script. That’s just Richard and Larry.
ESSMAN | That’s the perfect example of improv. Richard didn’t deny it. He just went along with it. That’s the “yes, and…” He just went along with it and built on it and came up with something brilliant.
SCHAFFER | There’s a certain energy that Larry has with Richard. It really just feels like the two of them talking like that. The one thing I’ll remember is how excited and invigorated he was to be on set. He really wanted to be there. We did a reshoot, and he was in it, that happened three weeks to the day before he passed away, and he looked great and he was vibrant. It meant a lot to him to be on the show. He just loved it. He really came to life being on the show with all of his Curb family.
ESSMAN | And I think one of the reasons that Larry loved having Lewis on the show so much was that he could say anything to him, like in Season 11 when he says to him, “When are you gonna die?” Do you know that scene? He could say anything to him and there were no hurt feelings. There was no sensitivity and Lewis could say anything to Larry, and they did that in real life, as well. It was just a mirror of their relationship.
TVLINE | The show debuted in 2000. Why do you think it had such staying power throughout the years when so many other series have come and gone?
ESSMAN | Because it’s funny. It’s not just funny, it’s deeply funny and it resonates with people. I think that it’s audacious. Larry (well, all of us really) is saying what everybody wants to say, but cannot say, so we’re acting out people’s fantasies for them in a way that’s incredibly satisfying and making them laugh at the same time.
Loved the finale, I’m going to miss this show.