August 1, 2024

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

A NIGHTMARE ENDS WITH A HISTORIC DEAL.

"WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTER EVAN GERSHKOVICH AND U.S. MARINE PAUL WHELAN AMONG THE MANY COMING HOME IN A LARGE-SCALE PRISONER SWAP BETWEEN THE U.S. AND RUSSIA.

EXILED RUSSIAN JOURNALIST MIKHAIL ZYGAR JOINS THE SHOW WITH THE LATEST DETAILS.

>>> AND THEN IDF MEDIC YUVAL GREEN BREAKS HIS SILENCE ON THE HORRORS HE SAYS HE WITNESSED FIGHTING IN GAZA.

>>> AND WHAT A HARRIS PRESIDENCY COULD MEAN FOR THE ISRAEL GAZA CONFLICT.

DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIC WALEED SHAHID SPEAKS TO HARI SREENIVASAN.

♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

TODAY THE LARGEST PRISONER EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE U.S. AND RUSSIA SINCE THE END OF THE COLD WAR.

AFTER MONTHS OF COMPLEX NEGOTIATIONS, A HISTORIC DEAL INVOLVING SEVEN COUNTRIES AND THE RETURN OF 24 DETAINEES, ALONG WITH TWO CHILDREN.

AMONG THOSE RELEASE READY "WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORTER EVAN GERSHKOVICH AND FORMER U.S. MARINE PAUL WHELAN IN EXCHANGE FOR RUSSIAN PRISONERS.

CALLING TODAY A GOOD DAY, PRESIDENT BIDEN SPOKE ABOUT U.S. EFFORTS TO SECURE THE EXCHANGE.

>> LET ME SAY THIS.

IT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE UNITED STATES THAT WE WORK RELENTLESSLY TO FREE AMERICANS WHO ARE UNJUSTLY HELD AROUND THE WORLD.

IT ALSO SAYS A LOT ABOUT US THAT THIS DEAL INCLUDES THE RELEASE OF RUSSIAN POLITICAL PRISONERS.

THEY STOOD UP FOR DEMOCRACY AND HUMAN RIGHTS.

THEIR OWN LEADERS THREW THEM IN PRISON.

THE UNITED STATES HELPED SECURE THEIR RELEASE AS WELL.

THAT'S WHO WE ARE IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> TO UNPACK THE ETHICAL DILEMMAS AND BRING YOU THE LATEST ON THIS GROUNDBREAKING DEAL, WE'RE JOINED BY EXILED RUSSIAN JOURNALIST MIKHAIL ZYGAR, WHO WAS SENTENCED IN ABSENTIA BY MOSCOW FOR SPREADING, QUOTE, FAKE NEWS ABOUT THE RUSSIAN ARMY.

AND HE JOINS US NOW LIVE FROM NEW YORK.

MISHA, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC.

THERE HAD BEEN SO MUCH HOPE AND ANTICIPATION OF A POSSIBLE DEAL, PERHAPS COMING EVEN LATER IN THE YEAR AFTER THE U.S. ELECTION.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, YOUR REACTION TO THIS NEWS AND THE TIING OF IT HAPPENING.

NOW.

>> THANK YOU, BIANNA.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

INDEED, THAT'S A GREAT DAY.

YOU KNOW, I DID NOT EXPECT THAT TO HAPPEN.

I WAS -- I WAS THINKING THAT KIND OF A SWAP WAS POSSIBLE ONLY AFTER THE AMERICAN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

AND HUGE FORCES WERE EXPECTING THAT TO HAPPEN PROBABLY IN NEXT JANUARY BECAUSE ACCORDING TO THE FORECAST, THAT COULD HAVE BEEN SOME KIND OF PRESIDENT OF PUTIN'S ADMINISTRATION TO THE NEW AMERICAN ADMINISTRATION.

BUT SOMEHOW THAT LONG PROCESS THAT WAS STARTED LAST YEAR, EVEN BEFORE ALEXEI NAVALNY DIED, AND ACTUALLY INTENSIFIED STARTING THIS APRIL WHEN GERMAN AUTHORITIES JUMPED IN AND AGREED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE VERY COMPLICATED NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE RUSSIANS, FINALLY WE HAVE THE RESULTS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE FREED FROM RUSSIAN JAILS.

AMERICAN CITIZENS, RUSSIAN CITIZENS, RUSSIAN FREEDOM FIGHTER, INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS.

SO THAT'S MAGNIFICENT NEWS FROM RUSSIA TODAY.

>> YES, 16 IN TOTAL WERE RELEASED FROM RUSSIAN PRISONS.

AMERICAN CITIZENS, AND AS YOU SAID, RUSSIAN DISSIDENTS AS WELL, AND IN EXCHANGE FOR A NUMBER OF PRISONERS THAT MOSCOW HAD WANTED RETURN FROM A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES, FROM GERMANY, FROM SLOVENIA, IN NORWAY, FROM POLAND, THE UNITED STATES AS WELL.

BUT TOP OF THE LIST WAS VADIM KRASIKOV.

THAT WAS SOMEONE HELD IN A GERMAN PRISON THERE HAD BEEN MUCH TALK ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF A PRISONER SWAP BECAUSE VLADIMIR PUTIN SPECIFICALLY WANTED TO SEE THIS MAN RELEASED, A FORMER FSB AGENT WHO HAD BEEN DETAINED AND HELD IN PRISON IN GERMANY FOLLOWING THE MURDER OF A GEORGIAN CHECHEN CITIZEN.

TELL US MORE ABOUT WHY PUTIN SO SPECIFICALLY WANTED HIS RELEASE.

>> YOU KNOW, VADIM KRASIKOV IS INDEED A LEGENDARY RUSSIAN AGENT.

HE'S GOT A VERY LONG STORY OF BEING A PROFESSIONAL KILLER WHO WORKED FOR THE RUSSIAN STATE, FOR RUSSIAN INTELLIGENCE INSIDE OF RUSSIA AND OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY FOR MANY YEARS.

SO HE IS VERY WELL-KNOWN AS SOME KIND OF ELITE MURDER, ELITE ASSASSIN WHO HAS BEEN WORKING FOR PUTIN FOR MANY YEARS.

SO HE IS WELL-KNOWN TO PUTIN PERSONALLY.

AND YES, PUTIN WAS TRYING TO GET HIM OUT OF GERMANY FOR THE LAST YEARS.

AND IT WAS REALLY HARD FOR THE GERMAN AUTHORITIES BECAUSE WE'VE HEARD FROM DIFFERENT GERMAN SOURCES THAT GERMAN SOCIETY WAS NOT READY TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THE MURDERER WHO KILLED A PERSON IN THE CENTER OF BERLIN IN TEAL GARTEN, WHO HAD BEEN RELEASED AND THE POSSIBILITY EXCHANGE KRASIKOV FOR ALEXEI NAVALNY WAS PROBABLY THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE VARIANT FOR GERMAN SOCIETY.

AND AFTER NAVALNY DIED, GERMAN AUTHORITIES HAD CAME UP WITH ANOTHER PRINCIPLE, ONE FOR ALL.

AND GERMAN AUTHORITIES HAVE BEEN PRESSURING THE RUSSIAN SOCIETY TO EXCHANGE KRASIKOV, VERY PRECIOUS FOR VLADIMIR PUTIN AGENT, AND TO HAVE ALL POSSIBLE RUSSIAN DISSIDENTS IN RETURN.

ACTUALLY, RUSSIANS WERE INTERESTED ALSO IN ANOTHER PERSON WHOSE NAME IS VLADISLAV KLYUSHIN WHO WAS ARRESTED IN THE U.S., AND HE WAS ACCUSED OF SEVERAL CYBER CRIMES.

SO PROBABLY THAT WAS THE SECOND PERSON OF SOME INTEREST FOR RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES.

AND ALL THE REST WERE NOT SO CRUCIAL FOR PUTIN.

AND NOW WE HAVE ALL THOSE YEARS.

AND IT SEEMED LIKE THE LONG-TERM PRESSURE FROM GERMAN AUTHORITIES AND AMERICAN AUTHORITIES, AND THAT'S ONE FOR ALL HAD FINALLY WORKED.

>> AND IT'S UNBELIEVABLE.

THE SCENES AND JUST THE DESCRIPTION OF THIS WITH THE LARGEST PRISONER SWAP SINCE THE COLD WAREMME NICE SENT OF COLD WAR FILMS AND BOOKS, TO SEE THIS EXCHANGE HAPPENING IN ANKARA, IN TURKEY, HAVING SEVEN COUNTRIES INVOLVED.

AND AS WE HEARD FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN TODAY HIMSELF, REALLY REITERATING THE SIGNIFICANCE OF HAVING ALLIANCES LIKE THIS.

WE'RE GETTING DETAILS ABOUT HOW THIS ALL GOT FINALLY CONFIRMED.

AND THIS WAS AN HOUR OR SO BEFORE THE REST OF THE WORLD FOUND OUT THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS ACTUALLY DROPPING OUT OF THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

AN HOUR BEFORE THAT NEWS DROPPED ON JULY 21st THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN CALLED THE PRIME MINISTER OF SLOVENIA, WHOSE COUNTRY WAS CONTRIBUTING TWO CONVICTED RUSSIAN SPIES TO THE SWAP, AND THAT'S WHERE HE SECURED THE PARDON NECESSARY FOR THIS DEAL TO PROCEED.

CAN YOU JUST PUT IN SCOPE FOR US THE SIGNIFICANCE OF ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES WORKING TOGETHER TO SEE THIS DEAL THROUGH.

>> YEAH, IT -- THAT'S OBVIOUSLY VERY UNEXPECTED JIGSAW.

BECAUSE FOR MANY MONTHS, THE UNITED STATES WERE THE ONLY PART TO HAVE THAT KIND OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE RUSSIAN SIDE WITH ABRAMOVICH, FAMOUS RUSSIAN INFORMER, OWNER OF CHELSEA, AND HE IS KNOWN TO BE THE MEDIATOR BETWEEN THE RUSSIAN SIDE AND THE WEST AS SOME KIND OF INFORMAL REPRESENTATIVE.

AND FIRST HE WAS IN CHARGE OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE AMERICAN DIPLOMATS, THEN WITH GERMAN DIPLOMATS.

AND DURING THE LAST MONTHS, MORE AND MORE COUNTRIES LIKE SLOVENIA, NORWAY WERE BEING -- POLAND WERE BEING INVOLVED FROM THE WESTERN SIDE.

BELARUS IS NOW INVOLVED IN THE RUSSIAN SIDE AS RECENTLY GERMAN CITIZEN WAS SENTENCED TO DEATH BY THE COURT IN BELARUS.

AND RECENTLY, PRESIDENT ALEXANDR LUKASHENKO RELEASED THAT GERMAN CITIZEN.

AND HE HAS BECOME THE PART OF -- WAS PARDONED AND NOW HE IS A PART OF THAT SWAP.

SO YES, THAT'S A TRULY AMAZING JIGSAW WITH SO MANY COUNTRIES INVOLVED ON THE WESTERN SIDE.

>> IT IS FASCINATING TO HEAR THAT DETAIL THAT ABRAMOVICH, THE RUSSIAN OLIGARCH WAS ALSO INVOLVED IN SOME WAY IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS, BECAUSE WE KNOW WE'VE SEEN HIS NAME IN NEGOTIATIONS OVER PEACE DEALS PERHAPS BETWEEN UKRAINE AND RUSSIA AS WELL.

SO THE FACT THAT HE'S FIGURING IN HERE AND FACTORING HERE IS AN INTERESTING LITTLE NUGGET THERE.

I'M WONDERING, MISHA, FROM YOUR VIEW, IF YOU AGREE WITH WHAT A RUSSIAN POLITICAL ANALYST DIMITRI ORESHKIN SAID EARLIER TODAY AND WHY PUTIN ULTIMATELY AGREED TO THIS DEAL.

AND HE SAID THERE WERE TWO REASONS THAT CAME TO HIS MIND.

ONE HE SAID PUTIN WANTS TO SHOW HE DOESN'T ABANDON AGENTS LIKE KRASIKOV.

NOT BECAUSE HE PERSONALLY LIKES THEM SO MUCH, BUT HE NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO RECRUIT AGENTS FOR FUTURE EXTRAJUDICIAL ACTS.

AND TWO, THAT THIS PERHAPS OPENS THE DOOR TO SOME POTENTIAL NEGOTIATIONS OVER THE WAR IN UKRAINE DOWN THE ROAD.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THOSE ASSESSMENTS?

>> I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE FIRST BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY THINK THAT PUTIN'S LOYALTY TO HIS AGENTS, TO HIS PEOPLE SHOULD BE OVERESTIMATED.

I DON'T THINK THAT HE REALLY CARES ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S NOT THE PART OF RUSSIAN BUREAUCRATIC CULTURE, OR RUSSIAN POLITICAL CULTURE.

BUT I DO THINK THAT THE SECOND IDEA IS OBVIOUSLY RIGHT.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE IN RUSSIA WANT THE NEGOTIATIONS TO BE STARTED AND WANT IT TO BE HAPPENING.

AND THERE IS SOME KIND OF BUSINESS PRESSURE.

AND ROMAN ABRAMOVICH IS ACTING AS RUSSIA'S FOREIGN MINISTER.

NOT SERGEY LAVROV, NOT OFFICIAL RUSSIAN REPRESENTATIVES.

BUT AMAZINGLY, ABRAMOVICH IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO HAS SOME KIND OF WAY, PUT HIS TRUST, AND AT THE SAME TIME, HE CAN FIND THE WAYS TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE WESTERN PARTNERS.

AND HE IS THE SYMBOL OF THAT PRESSURE THAT IS BEING PUT ON PUTIN TO START CONTEXT WITH THE WEST.

PROBABLY THEY KNOW THAT IN SOME WAY, AND THAT COULD BE THE ONLY EXPLANATION.

THAT'S THE BEST POSSIBILITY TO START NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN RUSSIA AND THE WEST.

RUSSIANS DO NOT BELIEVE IN ANY KIND OF NEGOTIATIONS WITH UKRAINIANS, WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE IT.

PUTIN ACTUALLY WANTS TO HAVE NEW YALTA.

HE WANTS TO HAVE DIRECT NEGOTIATIONS WITH AMERICAN PRESIDENT AND CHINESE CHAIRMAN.

SO YES, HE HAS THAT PICTURE IN HIS MIND.

AND HE WANTS TO HAVE THOSE NEGOTIATIONS TO BE POSSIBLE.

HE DOESN'T WANT TO RULE THEM OUT.

THAT'S THE BEGINNING OF THAT PROTEST, I GUESS.

AND IN THE END, HE WANTS THE WEST TO PUT PRESSURE ON UKRAINE.

>> YOU KNOW, IT WOULD -- IT WOULD NOT BE WISE FOR US TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION ANY FURTHER WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT THE HUMAN ELEMENT OF THIS TOO, AND JUST THE EMOTIONAL MOMENT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> ONE CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW THESE FAMILIES ARE FEELING HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, FINALLY BEING REUNITED WITH THEIR LOVED ONE, WITH THEIR HUSBAND KARA-MURZA, WHETHER IT'S EVAN GERSHKOVICH AND HIS PARENTS AS WELL.

AND OBVIOUSLY PAUL WHELAN AND HIS FLANNEL.

FOR EVAN GERSHKOVICH, WHO WAS ARRESTED IN MARCH OF 2023, ESPECIALLY HIS FAMILY HAVING FLED TO THE UNITED STATES AS REFUGEES, ONLY TO HAVE -- FROM THE SOVIET UNION, ONLY TO HAVE THEIR SON THEN IMPRISONED, UNLAWFULLY, WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE FOR WHAT HE WAS BEING CHARGED WITH.

ONE CAN ONLY IMAGINE THE HELL THAT THIS HAS BEEN FOR THEM.

AND I'D LIKE TO PLAY SOME REALLY EMOTIONAL STRONG SOUND FROM HIS MOTHER, ELLA LAST YEAR WHEN SHE TALKED ABOUT WHAT THIS EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE FOR THEM.

>> IT'S ONE OF THE AMERICAN QUALITIES THAT WE ABSORBED, BE OPTIMISTIC, BELIEVE IN HAPPY ENDING.

THAT'S WHERE WE STAND RIGHT NOW.

BUT I AM NOT STUPID.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT'S INVOLVED.

BUT THAT'S WHAT I CHOOSE TO BELIEVE.

>> JUST MISHA, SOMEBODY WHO IS NOW LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL, HOW POWERFUL THAT IS, THE JUXTAPOSITION OF THE AMERICAN VIEWS OF BEING OPTIMISTIC, A QUALITY THAT IS VERY UNIQUELY AMERICAN.

AND THEN WHAT SHE SAYS VERY HONESTLY THAT SHE KNOWS WHERE SHE CAME FROM AND SHE UNDERSTANDS THE DIRE CIRCUMSTANCES HER SON WAS FACING IN RUSSIA.

>> YOU KNOW, I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO HIGHLIGHT ANOTHER ISSUE.

AND IT'S AMAZING THAT AS A RESULT OF THOSE NEGOTIATIONS, WE HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE FREE.

NOT ONLY AMERICAN CITIZENS, BUT THERE ARE A FEW PEOPLE WE MIGHT HAVE NEVER HOPED FOR THEIR RELEASE FOR MANY AND MANY YEARS.

YOUNG GIRLS WHO USED TO BE HEADS OF ALEXEI NAVALNY'S ORIGINAL CAMPAIGNS WHO WERE -- WHO HAD TO BE IN PRISON FOR YEARS AND YEARS, OR PROBABLY THE OLDEST RUSSIAN DISSIDENT, WHO IS IN HIS 70s, THE HEAD OF MORIAL, THAT THEY ARE POSSIBLE PRISON TERMS MIGHT HAVE BEEN REALLY SCARY.

AND SO WHAT HAS HAPPENED TODAY IS A MIRACLE.

WE'RE SO HAPPY THAT THOSE PEOPLE, ALL THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE RELEASED, BUT STILL, I MUST -- I MUST MENTION THAT THERE ARE SO MANY MORE POLITICAL PRISONERS.

THEY ARE NOT AMERICAN CITIZENS, BUT THEY ARE TRUE HEROES OF THE HUMANITY TODAY.

THEY ARE FIGHTING AGAINST WAR IN UKRAINE.

THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR HUMAN RIGHTS IN RUSSIA.

ALL OF THEM ARE WRONGFULLY DETAINED, ARRESTED AND SENTENCED TO HUGE PRISON TERMS.

INDEPENDENT LIKE IVAN SAFRONIK, OR REPORTERS LIKE EVAN GERSHKOVICH.

POLITICIANS LIKE ALEXEI NAGORNOV WHO IS REALLY SICK.

THAT'S THE ONLY WORK WE CAN USE IN THIS SITUATION.

THERE ARE A LOT OF HOSTAGES STILL HELD BY PUTIN'S PRISON SYSTEM.

AND I DO FEEL IT THAT WAY, THAT IN A WAY, THE POPULATION OF RUSSIA HAS BECOME A HOSTAGE OF THAT REGIME.

AND THAT'S THE SITUATION WE'RE FACING RIGHT NOW.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE NO POSSIBILITY TO ESCAPE EXCEPT FOR THAT MIRACLE LIKE HAPPENED TODAY.

>> AND IT REALLY IS A REMINDER OF THE MOCKERY VLADIMIR PUTIN HAS MADE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS, WHETHER IT BE THROUGH ELECTIONS.

OBVIOUSLY THAT WE KNOW ARE NOT FREE OR FAIR, AND JUST THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM IN GENERAL.

BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, SADLY, AND HE HAS SAID SO HIMSELF, THAT HE COULDN'T INTERVENE AT ALL UNTIL THE QUOTE, UNQUOTE LEGAL PROCESS RAN ITS COURSE.

AND IT WAS JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO THAT EVAN GERSHKOVICH, WITHOUT ANY PROOF FROM THE PROSECUTION IN TERMS OF EVIDENCE WAS SENTENCED TO 16 YEARS IN PRISON.

PAUL WHELAN WAS SENTENCED AS WELL IN 2020.

AND IT'S ONLY AFTER THAT THAT VLADIMIR PUTIN CAN OFFER HIS SO-CALLED PARDONS.

AND WE SHOULD NOTE THAT TODAY HE DID PARDON 12 PRISONERS RELEASED IN THIS SWAP.

AS YOU SAID, THERE ARE MANY MORE THAT WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THERE IN RUSSIA.

BUT FOR THIS DAY, AT LEAST, A VERY GOOD.

A DAY FOR JUSTICE AND THE RELEASE OF THOSE WHO WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR SO LONG THAT WE'VE BEEN COVERING FOR SO LONG AS WELL, FINALLY HOME WITH THEIR LOVED ONES.

MISHA ZYGAR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND FOR JOINING US.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR EXPERTISE.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> TURNING NOW TO ISRAEL, WHERE THE COUNTRY IS ON EDGE, BRACING FOR RETALIATION AFTER HIGH-STAKES ASSASSINATIONS IN BEIRUT AND TEHRAN.

BUT AS THE WORLD'S FOCUS SHIFTS TO A BROADER REGIONAL CONFLICT, THE WAR IN GAZA CONTINUES TO CLAIM MORE PALESTINIAN LIVES DAILY, WITH HOPES FOR A CEASEFIRE GRIM AFTER THE KILLING OF HAMAS LEADER ISMAIL HANIYEH AMID THE ENDLESS DESTRUCTION AND RISING DEATH TOLL, IT'S RARE TO HEAR FROM ISRAELI SOLDIERS ABOUT THE HORRORS THEY SAY THEY WITNESSED WHILE FIGHTING.

ONE OF THOSE FEW SPEAKING OUT IS YUVAL GREEN, AN IDF MEDIC WHO PUBLICLY REFUSED FURTHER SERVICE AFTER WHAT HE SAYS HE SAW.

I SPOKE WITH YUVAL JUST BEFORE FAR-RIGHT PROTESTERS STORMED THE ISRAELI MILITARY CAMP, ENRAGED OVER THE DETENTION OF IDF TROOPS FOR THEIR ALLEGED ABUSE OF PALESTINIAN PRISONERS.

YUVAL GREEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

WE SHOULD NOTE THAT PRIOR TO OCTOBER 7th, YOU HAD BEEN PLANNING ON LEAVING THE IDF BECAUSE OF DISCOMFORT AND DISCONTENT YOU HAD ABOUT ISRAEL'S POLICY AS IT RELATES TO THE WEST BANK.

CAN YOU TALK TO US A BIT ABOUT THAT?

>> YES.

SO I WAS GOING TO LEAVE THE IDF BEFORE THE BEGINNING OF THE 7th OF OCTOBER.

I WAS GOING TO TELL MY FRIENDS A DAY AFTERWARDS, THE 8th, AND THAT TURNED OUT TO BE JUST THE DAY AFTER THE MASSACRE WE'D SEEN ON THE 7th.

IT WAS A DIFFICULT DECISION FOR ME TO REACH BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF OUR CULTURE IS THE IDF AND OBLIGATORY SERVICE IN IT.

AND I WAS GOING LEAVE MY FRIENDS WITH WHICH I SERVED IN MY REGULAR SERVICE, AND I'M THEIR MEDIC.

SO WHEN THE 7th OF OCTOBER STRUCK, IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR ME AT THIS TIME TO TELL THEM THAT I'M NOT WILLING TO COME WITH THEM, EVEN THOUGH I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WOULD BE THE RIGHT THING AS THEIR MEDIC.

SO I DECIDED TO JOIN MY FRIENDS BECAUSE I BELIEVED AS MUCH AS I SHOULD HELP MY FRIENDS, THAT MAYBE I COULD HELP, YOU KNOW, SAVING PEOPLE.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WOULD BE THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

>> AND SO THEN ON OCTOBER 7th, OBVIOUSLY, YOUR VIEWS ON WHETHER OR NOT YOU WOULD PARTICIPATE AND PLAN TO STAY WITH THE IDF CHANGED GIVEN THE ATROCITIES THAT WERE BORNE DOWN ON THE COUNTRY THAT DAY.

YOU THEN WERE SENT IN TO KHAN YOUNIS, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> IT TOOK A LONG TIME BEFORE WE WERE SENT TO KHAN YOUNIS.

WE WERE SENT THERE ROUGHLY TWO MONTHS AFTER THE 7th.

BASICALLY, IN THOSE DAYS, AT THE BEGINNING WERE IN THE TOWNS THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, DAMAGED BY THE MASSACRE WE'D SEEN ON THE 7th.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE SEEING CARS JUST PUNCTURED FROM BULLETS, HOUSES RUINED OR BURNED IN FAL AZA, WHICH IS AN ISRAEL TOWN.

AND ME AND PROBABLY EVERYONE I KNOW KNEW PEOPLE THAT WERE BRUTALLY MURDERED IN THIS DAY.

IN THE DAYS BEFORE WE ENTERED KHAN YOUNIS, THERE WAS THIS ATMOSPHERE OF DEMONIZING THE GAZIANS.

I STARTED HEARING THINGS FROM MY FRIENDS THAT WERE BECOMING LEGITIMATE, SPEAKING ABOUT KILLING -- RUINING ALL OF GAZA, YOU KNOW, WIPING IT OUT BECAME SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WERE DISCUSSING ABOUT AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF A LEGITIMATE IDEA.

SO AFTER AROUND TWO MONTHS, WE ENTERED KHAN YOUNIS.

>> AND WHEN YOU WERE HEARING SOME OF THIS RHETORIC FROM YOUR COLLEAGUES, FROM YOUR FRIENDS, FROM FORMER -- FROM IDF SOLDIERS THERE ALONG WITH YOU, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

AND DID YOU RESPOND TO THEM AT ALL?

>> SO THERE WERE A LOT OF ARGUMENTS.

NOT EVERYONE BELIEVED IN THOSE WORDS THE SAME.

AND I THOUGHT THIS IS JUST WRONG.

I THINK IT'S THE SAME TYPE OF THINKING THAT BROUGHT HAMAS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE GAZIAN CIVILIANS HAVE ENTERED THROUGH THE OPENINGS IN THE FENCE TO DO THOSE HORRIBLE THINGS WE'VE SEEN ON THE 7th.

SO I THOUGHT THIS IS JUST NOT HELPFUL, AND IT'S WRONG, JUST MORALLY WRONG TO BELIEVE THAT KILLING SO MANY INNOCENT PEOPLE, THE GAZAN POPULATION IS SUDDENLY BECOMING LEGITIMATE.

>> DID ANY OF THIS RHETORIC REACH YOUR COMMANDING OFFICERS?

AND IF SO, I'M WONDERING HOW THEY RESPONDED TO IT.

>> I FELT LIKE MY COMMANDERS WERE TRYING TO KIND OF GO WITH THE SOLDIERS AND TRY TO SAY THINGS THAT THEY THOUGHT WAS WHAT THE SOLDIERS WANTED TO HEAR, YOU KNOW, SAYING THINGS LIKE WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY BOUNDARIES IN GAZA THIS TIME, LIKE THE OTHER WARS IN WHICH ISRAEL SOLDIERS COMPLAINED THAT WE'RE ALWAYS RESTRICTED IN OUR ABILITY TO OPEN FIRE, FOR INSTANCE.

AND I FELT LIKE THEY READ THE ATMOSPHERE OF THE SOLDIERS.

THEY MAYBE THOUGHT FOR THEMSELVES THAT THIS JUST IS WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN, AND WE SHOULD BE RUTHLESS AND HAVE NO BOUNDARIES IN GAZA THIS TIME.

SO THIS IS JUST SOMETHING I FELT LIKE CAME FROM ALL AROUND.

>> SO THAT WAS THE ATMOSPHERE.

WHAT WERE THE SPECIFIC ORDERS YOU WERE GIVEN ONCE YOU ENTERED KHAN YOUNIS?

>> SO BASICALLY, AS A RESERVIST, IN THE UNIT I SERVED IN, WE WERE MOSTLY IN A PLACE THAT WE HAVEN'T SEEN ANY PALESTINIANS.

I HONESTLY HAVEN'T SEEN ANYONE, YOU KNOW, ALIVE.

I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYONE, NOT EVEN DEAD PEOPLE OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE EVACUATED IN THIS AREA.

IT WAS A WAR ZONE.

AND WHAT YOU USUALLY DO IS DESTROYING HOUSES.

WHAT IS USUALLY MILITARY REASONS.

FOR INSTANCE, YOU'RE DESTROYING HOUSES THAT PEOPLE COULD SNIPE YOU FROM THEM, AND YOU'RE DESTROYING HOUSES BECAUSE YOU COULD FIND AND WE HAVE FOUND A LOT OF TUNNELS BELOW THEM, TUNNELS THAT WERE USED BY HAMAS TO ATTACK ISRAEL.

SO THIS MOSTLY WHAT YOU DO.

NOW, WE HAVE TO REALIZE IN THESE DAYS, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF DESTRUCTION THAT WAS NOT NECESSARILY RELATED TO THE MILITARY REASONS.

EVERYTHING TENDS TO REALLY MIX UP.

PEOPLE ARE DESTROYING HOUSES BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE THEY SHOULD REVENGE WHAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE 7th.

AND IT MIXES UP WITH THE REASONS TO DESTROY HOUSES FOR THE MILITARY REASONS.

AND I'VE SEEN -- REGARDING THAT.

>> SO YOU SAW -- SO YOU SAW HOUSES THAT WERE DESTROYED FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO VANDALIZE HOMES?

>> FO SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALWAYS DIFFICULT TO SAY BECAUSE YOU CAN'T REALLY JUDGE UNLESS YOU'RE IN THE MIND OF THE PERSON WHO IS DOING THAT.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHY HE IS DOING THAT.

AND YOU DON'T KNOW THE ENTIRE PLAN OF THE SUPERIORS.

SO YOU CAN'T KNOW WHY THINGS ARE DONE.

I BELIEVE THAT MOST OF THE TIME THEY'RE DONE FOR THOSE TWO REASONS.

SOMETIMES IT'S MORE CLEAR.

FOR INSTANCE, YOU'RE SEEING LOOTING BY YOUR PEERS ALL THE TIME.

THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO SEE.

PEOPLE WERE TAKING SOUVENIRS OFF THE PALESTINIANS' HOUSES, WHICH I THINK DIRECTLY RELATES TO THE DEMONIZATION WE'VE SEEN BEFORE THE ENTRANCE TO KHAN YOUNIS.

PEOPLE WERE TAKING NECKLACES AND DOING GRAFFITI ON THE WALLS.

AND, YOU KNOW, LIVING BEHIND DAMAGED HOUSES THAT WAS COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND NECESSARY.

>> DID YOU SAY ANYTHING IN RESPONSE TO THAT, EITHER THE SOLDIERS WHO YOU SAW LOOTING OR TO YOUR SUPERVISORS?

>> YES.

THERE WAS A LOT OF ARGUMENTS REGARDING THAT.

I WAS ARGUING ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME.

I FELT LIKE I WASN'T IN A MORAL CONFLICT ANY WAY.

SEEING THAT MADE THINGS FEEL EVEN WORSE.

SO SPEAKING TO MY SUPERIORS, SOME OF THEM AGREED WITH ME.

SOME OF THEM DIDN'T OR SOME OF THEM WERE IN BETWEEN.

BUT THEY ALL OF THEM WEREN'T ABLE TO CONTROL OUR ACTIONS.

NOW YOU HAVE TO DO UNDERSTAND THAT I'M AS A RESERVIST IN THIS PARTICULAR WAR, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, THE EXTENT OF CONTROL WE HAVE OVER THE SOLDIERS IS SMALLER THAN THE ONE YOU HAVE OVER THE REGULAR SOLDIERS.

SO MAYBE IN DIFFERENT PLACES THE COMMANDERS COULD CONTROL THE SOLDIERS BETTER.

>> YOU SAID A COMMANDER TOLD YOUR UNIT TO BURN THE HOUSE THAT YOU WERE STATIONED IN, AND IT WAS AFTER THAT YOU DECIDED NOT TO COME BACK TO DUTY?

>> THE EXTENT OF DAMAGE I'VE SEEN IN GAZA IS JUST BEYOND EVERY IMAGINATION.

YOU CAN'T IMAGINE IT.

CITIES THAT ARE COMPLETELY RUINED.

AND AT SOME POINT, MY COMMANDER TOLD MY PLATOON TO BURN DOWN THE HOUSE WE WERE STAYING AT.

AND I WENT TO HIM.

I APPROACHED HIM AND I ASKED HIM WHY ARE WE DOING THAT?

AND HE GAVE ME A FEW REASONS.

AND I THINK THOSE REASONS WERE JUST NOT STRONG ENOUGH.

AND THEY WERE MILITARY TYPE OF REASONS.

BUT THEY CAME ALONG THE REVENGE TYPE OF REASONS.

NOW I THINK THIS IS JUST WHAT'S GOING ON IN GAZA.

ISRAEL IS DOING THINGS BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO FULFILL THE TYPE OF MILITARY PURPOSE.

BUT IT ALL MIXES UP WITH OUR NEED FOR -- THE ISRAELI NEED FOR REVENGE.

AND I SAID I'M NOT WILLING TO PARTICIPATE IN THAT.

I'M NOT DESTROYING A HOUSE THAT BELONGED TO A FEW FAMILIES THAT WOULD BECOME HOMELESS BECAUSE OF THAT.

AND I'M LEAVING.

AND I JUST LEFT ON THE NEXT -- WITH THE NEXT CAR THAT WENT OUT.

>> YOU MADE SIMILAR CLAIMS IN STATEMENTS AND ACCUSATIONS AGAINST THE IDF AND YOUR COMMANDERS AND SUPERIORS IN AN INTERVIEW WITH ABC NEWS.

AND IN THE IDF IN RESPONSE SAID, QUOTE, ITS ACTIONS ARE BASED ON MILITARY NECESSITY AND IN ACCORDANCE TO INTERNATIONAL LAW THERE WAS NO IDF DOCTRINE THAT AIMS AT CAUSING MAXIMAL DAMAGE TO CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE REGARDLESS OF MILITARY NECESSITY.

DEFACING HOMES WITH GRAFFITI AND STEALING HOUSEHOLD PERSONAL OBJECTS IS AGAINST THE IDF'S CODE OF CONDUCT AND VALUES.

THE IDF HAS ACTED AND CONTINUED TO ACT TO IDENTIFY UNUSUAL CASES THAT DEVIATE FROM WHAT IS EXPECTED OF IDF SOLDIERS.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THOSE STATEMENTSES AND THE FACT THAT THE IDF STATES THAT ANYONE WHO COMMITS THESE ACTS WILL FACE PROSECUTION?

>> I DO THINK THAT THE IDF, YOU KNOW, THE IDF IS AGAINST, IF YOU'LL LOOK AT THINGS FROM ABOVE, FROM THE SUPERIOR COMMANDERS OF THE IDF, I THINK THEY DO BELIEVE THAT THIS SHOULDN'T HAPPEN, LOOTING OR GRAFFITI.

BUT I DON'T THINK IT HAS THE RESOURCES TO STOP IT.

I THINK IT ALL COMES DOWN TO THE SOLDIERS OF THE FIELD.

YOU CAN'T STOP ANY SOLDIER FROM DOING THINGS.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE MIX-UP OF THE MILITARY AND REVENGE TYPE OF PURPOSES.

IF A SOLDIER IS TELLING YOU OR TRYING TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING WITH MILITARY REASONS THAT SOMETIMES ARE TRUE, AND I'VE SEEN IT MANY TIMES IN CASE THAT THAT WAS TRUE.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO UNPROVE IT.

AND I CAN TELL YOU 100% THAT WE'VE DESTROYED HOUSES AT LEAST FOR REASONS THAT WERE JUST NOT -- WE DON'T CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THE LIVES OF PALESTINIANS.

>> I SEE YOU WEARING THE HOSTAGE PIN THERE, AND THAT I KNOW IS A TOP CONCERN OF YOURS, THE RELEASE OF THE HOSTAGES, THE REMAINING HOSTAGES THERE IN GAZA AS WELL AS FOR TENS OF THOUSANDS, OF ALL ISRAELIS.

LET'S JUST BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT.

AND THE MAJORITY OF THE WORLD WOULD LIKE TO SEE THESE HOSTAGES COME HOME.

TALK ABOUT THE CONCERN THAT YOU HAVE THAT WAS EVEN EXPRESSED BY NOA ARGAMANI WHEN SHE MET WITH PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SAYING WHAT SHE FEARED MOST, OUT OF HER DARKEST MOMENTS AND LOWEST POINTS IS WHEN SHE WOULD HEAR THAT THE WAR WOULD BE PROLONGED, THAT A DEAL HAD NOT YET BEEN REACHED.

>> SO BASICALLY, THE ONLY REASON I'M SPEAKING NOW -- WELL, HAVE I TWO REASONS TO SPEAK NOW.

I THINK WE SHOULD SUPPORT AND PUT ALL THE PRESSURE WE COULD ON ISRAEL TO ACCEPT A DEAL.

I THINK THERE ARE CONCRETE DEALS ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW THAT HAMAS IS AGREEING TO THAT MAKES SENSE.

THOSE DEALS SAY THAT ALL THE HOSTAGES WOULD BE FREED.

AND ISRAEL IS NOT ACCEPTING THE ENDING OF THE WAR, AND THIS IS CRAZY.

THIS IS KILLING THE HOSTAGES.

I'VE SEEN IT FROM WITHIN.

WE SAID NOTHING BEFORE WE ENTERED GAZA ABOUT THE HOSTAGES.

WE COULD HAVE KILLED THEM, YOU KNOW, ANY MOMENT.

AND IT'S SOMETHING I'VE HAD HAPPEN.

WE KNOW ABOUT MORE THAN TEN HOSTAGES THAT WERE KILLED DIRECTLY FROM ISRAELI BOMBINGS OR, YOU KNOW, THE THREE HOSTAGES THAT WERE KILLED.

SO NOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY, I KNOW THAT RIGHT NOW WHEN DEALS ARE REFUSING BY ISRAEL, WE HAVE TO TELL OUR GOVERNMENT TO STOP THE WAR.

THIS IS THE ONLY RIGHT SOLUTION TO SAVE THE LIVES OF PALESTINIANS THAT ARE DYING EVERY DAY.

AND GOING THROUGH LIVING HELL IN THE PAST FEW MONTHS.

SAVING THE LIVES OF SOLDIERS, ISRAELI SOLDIERS THAT ARE NOW PRESENT IN GAZA AND DYING EVERY DAY.

AND OBVIOUSLY THE LIVES OF HOSTAGES.

IN ADDITION TO THAT, STOPPING, YOU KNOW, THE HORRIBLE STATE IN ISRAEL RIGHT NOW.

>> YEAH, THIS IS NOW THE LONGEST WAR SINCE THE WAR OF INDEPENDENCE.

YOU SIGNED A LETTER.

>> YES.

>> WITH 40 OTHER RESERVISTS WHO REFUSED TO SERVE.

YOU, THOUGH, HAVE TAKEN AND GONE A STEP FURTHER BY COMING FORWARD, IDENTIFYING YOURSELF, GIVING INTERVIEWS LIKE THIS.

I'M WONDERING WHAT KIND OF REACTION YOU'VE HAD FROM YOUR COLLEAGUES, FROM FAMILY, FROM FRIENDS IN CHOOSING TO DO SO.

>> SO OBVIOUSLY IT'S SOMETHING VERY CONTROVERSIAL IN ISRAEL, BUT I WAS WILLING TO SACRIFICE MY PRIVACY AND, YOU KNOW, COMING OUT WITH A TOPIC AS CONTROVERSIAL AS THAT BECAUSE I BELIEVE RIGHT NOW IT'S A MATTER OF LIFE AND DEATH.

AND WHEN PEOPLE ARE CRITICIZING ME FOR THAT, AND I'VE HEARD PEOPLE THAT SAID THEY WERE WORRIED THAT MIGHT GET HURT IN THAT PROCESS, THAT ALWAYS FELT VERY WEIRD.

I WENT INSIDE GAZA.

I LITERALLY HAVE RISKED MY LIFE.

BUT PEOPLE ARE NOW MORE AFRAID THAT I MIGHT GET HURT BY JUST COMING OUT WITH WORDS.

SO I THINK IT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH OUR SITUATION RIGHT NOW.

COMING OUT AND FIGHTING TO STOP THE WAR IS SO IMPORTANT.

>> LET ME ASK YOU AS WE'RE APPROACHING TEN MONTHS OF THIS HORRIBLE WAR.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IN TERMS OF MORALE AMONG THE IDF?

>> I THINK THEY'RE STARTING TO HEAR VOICES -- I THINK IT'S MORE AND MORE PROMINENT TO HEAR VOICES PEOPLE ARE SAYING THE RIGHT THINGS IS TO END THE WAR AND ACCEPT THE DEAL, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE HAVEN'T HEARD AT THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR.

AND THIS IS SOMETHING I'M HAPPY ABOUT.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT THE MORALE OF THE IDF.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE BEGINNING TO BE A LOT MORE TIRED.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, JUST THE AMOUNT OF ENERGY IT TAKES FROM YOU BEING THERE FOR MONTHS, WHICH WAS THE TIME I'VE BEEN THERE, IS CRAZY, AND I CAN'T THINK ABOUT PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IN GAZA FOR THE PAST TEN MONTHS, YOU KNOW, WITHOUT ANY STOPS.

YEP.

JUST WEARS YOU DOWN.

>> YUVAL GREEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO SPEAK WITH US TODAY.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

>> IF I COULD ADD ONE MORE THING.

THE REASON WHY I'M SPEAKING IS BECAUSE I THINK I SHOULD CALL FOR THE ACCEPTANCE OF THE DEAL.

BUT THING IS SOMETHING ELSE IN HERE.

I'VE SEEN IN THE PAST TEN MONTHS HOW THE VIOLENCE OF HAMAS, YOU KNOW, PROMOTED SO MUCH DEMONIZATION TOWARDS THE PALESTINIANS AMONGST MY FRIENDS AND FAMILY AND PEOPLE AROUND ME.

AND I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT FROM THE OTHER DIRECTION, WHAT I'M HEARING PALESTINIANS SUPPORTING HAMAS OR SUPPORTING THE PALESTINIAN ARMED STRUGGLE, OR CALLING FOR AN INTIFADA, THAT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT THOSE CALLINGS FOR VIOLENCE ARE JUST CAUSING -- ARE DAMAGING THE PALESTINIAN CAUSE AND HAVE BEEN KILLING PALESTINIANS FOR YEARS NOW.

AND LOOK AT THE AMOUNT OF PALESTINIANS WE'VE SEEN DYING IN GAZA SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR.

AND IT ALL STARTED BECAUSE OF THE 7th OF OCTOBER.

NOW I'M TRYING TO SAY I THINK IT'S TYPE OF HOLLOW PHRASE THAT THEY'RE SAYING TO OPPOSE VIOLENCE.

BUT I HAVE SEEN IT WITH OWN EYES HOW THE VIOLENCE OF HAMAS AND THE VIOLENCE OF THE ACTIONS WE'VE SEEN IN LED TO MORE AND MORE VIOLENCE.

I'M TRYING TO CALL PEOPLE THAT ARE SUPPORTING PALESTINIAN.

I SUPPORT PALESTINIAN TOO, BUT DON'T CONFUSE BETWEEN SUPPORTING PALESTINIAN AND SUPPORTING THE VIOLENCE OF HAMAS, SUPPORTING THE INTIFADA WHICH WAS THE HORRIBLE VIOLENT RIOTS WE'VE SEEN A FEW DECADES AGO.

SO TRY AND DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THOSE TWO.

>> YUVAL, THANK YOU.

>> YEP.

>> THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> NOW THE ISRAEL-GAZA WAR IS OF COURSE A U.S. CAMPAIGN ISSUE.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS MET WITH PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU JUST LAST WEEK IN WASHINGTON.

BUT FOR MANY VOTERS, HOW THE VP WOULD MANAGE THE CONFLICT IF ELECTED IS NOT YET CLEAR.

HARI SREENIVASAN SPEAKS TO WALEED SHAHID, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE UNCOMMITTED NATIONAL MOVEMENT TO DISCUSS HARRIS' RECENT ACTIONS AND HOW SHE COULD TRY TO WIN OVER UNDECIDED VOTERS.

>> BIANNA, THANKS.

WALEED SHAHID, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

JUST RECENTLY AFTER PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU ADDRESSED CONGRESS, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS MET WITH HIM, AND SHE SAID THAT SHE HAD EXPRESSED AND PRESSED HIM ON THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA.

SHE PUBLICLY EMPHASIZED THE NEED FOR A CEASEFIRE AND THE PROTECTION OF PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.

DO YOU THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO TRANSLATE IN A TANGIBLE POLICY DIFFERENCE AS SHE RUNS FOR PRESIDENT?

>> WE DON'T KNOW YET.

I THINK THAT MANY OF THE UNCOMMITTED VOTERS, MANY PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN OPPOSED TO NETANYAHU'S WAR IN GAZA WERE WELCOME, THE STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION FROM VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IN TERMS OF USING RHETORIC THAT EMPATHIZED WITH PALESTINIAN FAMILIES IN GAZA, THAT SHOWED SOME HUMANITY.

BUT ON THE POLICY SUBSTANCE LEVEL, WE'RE NOT SURE WHAT HER GOVERNING VISION IS FOR FOREIGN POLICY AND FOR THE WAR IN GAZA.

AND WE'RE STILL WAITING TO HEAR WHAT THAT MIGHT BE.

WE'RE EXCITED.

WE'RE EXCITED THAT SHE MIGHT TURN THE PAGE ON BIDEN'S -- WHAT'S BEEN BIDEN'S DISASTROUS POLICY ON GAZA AS IT'S FRACTURED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND THE COALITION.

AND WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS COMING OUT AGAINST MORE AMERICAN WEAPONS FOR NETANYAHU'S WAR, FOR THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT'S WAR.

BUT RIGHT NOW WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HER FOREIGN POLICY VISION IS.

>> YOU'RE ONE OF THE CO-FOUNDERS OF THE UNCOMMITTED MOVEMENT.

AND THAT'S 700,000 AMERICANS WHO VOTED UNCOMMITTED DURING THE PRIMARIES.

TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE ORIGINS, HOW IT CAME ABOUT, WHAT THE GELS ARE.

>> IT CAME ABOUT BECAUSE DURING THE FALL, AFTER THE WAR IN GAZA STARTED, MANY VOTERS IN ARAB AND MUSLIM COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, MANY YOUNG PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATIC PARTY VOTERS FELT EXTREMELY ANGRY THAT THE PRIMARIES WERE STARTING AND THERE WASN'T AN OPTION FOR THEM ON THE BALLOT TO SUGGEST THAT THEY WERE AGAINST BIDEN'S POLICIES AS IT PERTAINED TO FUNDING ISRAEL'S WAR AND OCCUPATION AGAINST PALESTINIANS.

MY OWN FATHER, A LIFE-LONG DEMOCRAT, HAS VOTED DEMOCRAT HIS WHOLE LIFE, TOLD ME OVER THANKSGIVING HOLIDAYS THAT HE COULDN'T BRING HIMSELF TO VOTE FOR BIDEN, BECAUSE BIDEN HAD JUST CROSS ADELINE FOR HIM.

THOSE VOTERS WERE BEING INVISIBLIZED IN OUR DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

AND THE UNCOMMITTED MOVEMENT STARTED IN MICHIGAN IN ORDER TO GIVE ALL OF THOSE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS A VEHICLE TO EXPRESS THEIR DEEP DISSATISFACTION WITH JOE BIDEN'S POLICY ON GAZA WHILE REMAINING IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CAMP.

WE WANTED TO SHOW THAT THESE VOTERS WERE SERIOUS, THAT THE PARTY WAS LEAVING THEM.

THE PARTY WAS BETRAYING THEIR VALUE, AND THE PARTY WASN'T STANDING UP FOR ITS OWN VALUES OF PEACE AND HUMAN RIGHTS AND JUSTICE.

AND NOW WE HAVE 30 DELEGATES WHO WILL BE AT THE DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION AT THE END OF AUGUST IN CHICAGO.

WE'LL BE BRINGING THOSE COMMUNITIES AND THOSE DEMANDS FOR AN END TO THE WAR, FOR A CEASEFIRE AND FOR AN END TO U.S.

WEAPONS TO ISRAEL, ALL TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND HOPING TO BE EMBRACED.

>> WHAT ARE THE STEPS THAT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WOULD HAVE TO TAKE IN ORDER TO GAIN THOSE 30 DELEGATES AND, REALLY, MOTHER THAN 30 DELEGATES, THE SUPPORT OF THE UNCOMMITTED MOVEMENT?

>> SO THE UNCOMMITTED NATIONAL MOVEMENT, THOSE 30 DELEGATES ARE REQUESTING A MEETING WITH VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS AND HER CAMPAIGN TO TALK ABOUT THE PAIN AND ANGER OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT WE ALL REPRESENT, THAT PEOPLE HAVE FELT IN TERMS OF BIDEN'S FOREIGN POLICY DECISIONS WITH RESPECT TO PALESTINIAN HUMAN RIGHTS.

WE WANT TO SEE VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS COME OUT AGAINST U.S.

WEAPONS FOR NETANYAHU'S WAR.

WE WANT TO SEE AN END TO THIS WAR, AN EXCHANGE OF HOSTAGES AND CAPTIVES, ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS, AND A JUST SOLUTION FOR ALL ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS THAT WE CAN MOVE TOWARD.

>> LET ME REFERENCE A COUPLE OF THE THINGS THAT SHE SAID.

SHE SAID AFTER THE MEETING WITH NETANYAHU, WHAT'S HAPPENED IN GAZA OVER THE PAST NINE MONTHS IS DEVASTATING.

THE IMAGES OF DEAD CHILDREN AND PEOPLE DESPERATELY FLEEING FOR SAFETY, SOMETIMES DISPLACED FOR THE SECOND, THIRD, OR FOURTH TIME.

WELL CANNOT LOOK AWAY IN THE FACE OF THESE TRAGEDIES.

WE CANNOT ALLOW OURSELVES TO BECOME NUMB TO THE SUFFERING.

I WILL NOT BE SILENCED.

VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS SAYS THIS.

HOW MUCH OF THIS DO YOU THINK IS KIND OF POLITICAL POSITIONING AND WHAT SHE NEEDS TO DO RIGHT NOW AS THE CANDIDATE FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

AND HOW MUCH OF IT DO YOU THINK IS SINCERE?

>> VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS IS FROM A DIFFERENT GENERATION OF DEMOCRATS THAN PRESIDENT BIDEN, AND I THINK SHE IS RESPONDING TO THE GENUINE SHIFT IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND IN THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE THAT A MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, A MAJORITY OF DEMOCRATS ARE NOT SUPPORTIVE OF ISRAEL'S WAR AND OCCUPATION OF PALESTINIANS AND ARE DEFINITELY NOT SUPPORTIVE OF AMERICAN BOMBS OR AMERICAN TAXPAYER MONEY GOING TO NETANYAHU'S FAR-RIGHT EXTREME GOVERNMENT.

I THINK SHE RECOGNIZES THAT THE PARTY HAS CHANGED, AND SHE IS TRYING TO BALANCE HOW TO ADDRESS THAT WHILE STILL BEING THE VICE PRESIDENT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN.

>> STAYING WITH THE AFTEREFFECTS OF THE SPEECH, YOU SENT OUT A TWEET SAYING "THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU SHOULD KNOW, IN 2015, ABOUT 50 DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS BOYCOTTED NETANYAHU'S SPEECH TO CONGRESS.

TODAY IT WAS 136 DEMOCRATS.

NETANYAHU AND AIPAC ARE LOSING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

EXPLAIN.

>> SO ONE MAJOR THING THAT THE UNCOMMITTED DELEGATION WANTS TO DO AT THE CONVENTION IS TO ENSURE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS THE LAST AIPAC-ALIGNED DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT.

AIPAC IS A LOBBYING GROUP IN THE UNITED STATES THAT TRIES TO ENSURE THERE IS NO DAYDAY LIGHT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AND THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, NO MATTER HOW EXTREME OR FAR RIGHT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENTS UNDER NETANYAHU HAVE BECOME.

THE DOUBLING OF THE AMOUNT OF DEMOCRATS WHO DID NOT ATTEND NETANYAHU'S SPEECH FROM 2015 TO A WEEK AGO IS A HUGE STEP FORWARD IN TERMS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY REJECTING AIPAC'S INFLUENCE IN A PARTY THAT'S DEDICATED TO FREEDOM AND JUSTICE AND HUMAN RIGHTS FOR ALL.

SENATOR SCHUMER, HAKEEM JEFFRIES ALLOWING NETANYAHU TO SPEAK MADE A MOCKERY OF OUR PARTY'S CLAIM TO BE AGAINST MAGA EXTREMISM, TO BE AGAINST FAR-RIGHT POLITICS.

BECAUSE WHAT NETANYAHU HAS DONE TO DEMOCRACY FOR ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS IS LIKE MAGA ON STEROIDS.

SO WE THINK IT'S A MAJOR STEP FORWARD AND A REASON VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS' RHETORIC HAS SHIFTED, IS BECAUSE THE PARTY BELOW HER, THE PARTY BENEATH HER HAS ALSO SHIFTED THAT SPEECH WAS A PROPAGANDISTIC PRO VIOLENCE HATEFUL RACIST SPEECH DIRECT:00 ALL SORTS OF BIGOTRY TOWARDS PALESTINIANS AND VIOLENCE AGAINST PALESTINIANS.

SO I WAS ASHAMED AS A DEMOCRAT MYSELF THAT DEMOCRATS ALLOWED NETANYAHU TO SPEAK.

BUT I WAS VERY OPTIMISTIC THAT SO MANY IN OUR PARTY DID NOT ATTEND.

>> IS IT FAIR TO EQUATE THE POLICIES THAT THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL IS CARRYING OUT WITH THE VIEWPOINTS OF AIPAC, WHICH HAS FOR A LONG TIME HAD THE SUPPORT OF AND GIVEN SUPPORT TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?

>> AIPAC HAS SPENT HISTORIC AMOUNTS OF MONEY THIS ELECTION CYCLE TO KEEP PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS IN LINE AND BY CHALLENGING PEOPLE LIKE JAMAAL BOWMAN AND CORI BUSH, SPENDING AD MONEY AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE SUMMER LEE AND TLAIB FROM QUESTIONING UNRESTRICTED WEAPONS AID, A BLANK CHECK TO THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE THING THEY CARE ABOUT BECAUSE IT'S SYMBOLIC FOR THEM.

ONCE THE UNITED STATES STARTS PUTTING RESTRICTIONS OR CONDITIONS ON WEAPONS WE PROVIDE THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, JUST LIKE WE DO FOR ANY OTHER COUNTRY, THAT BECOMES A SLIPPERY SLOPE IS FOR THEM.

AND IN MANY WAYS, AIPAC CAN BE COMPARED TO THE NRA.

THE NRA WAS A PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TWO DECADES AGO.

THERE ARE MANY DEMOCRATS WHO EMBRACED THE NRA HAD ENDORSEMENTS FROM THE NRA.

BUT SLOWLY OVER TIME, THE NRA'S BRAND AND FORM OF POLITICS BECAME TOXIC WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ELECTORATE.

SO NOW THERE IS MAYBE ONLY ONE OR TWO DEMOCRATS IN ALL OF CONGRESS WHO HAVE THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE NRA.

I THINK AIPAC OVER TIME WILL SLOWLY GO THE WAY OF THE NRA AND BECOME A REPUBLICAN PARTY ORGANIZATION.

MOST OF THEIR DONORS ARE REPUBLICANS.

MOST OF THEIR DONORS HAVE BACKED DONALD TRUMP.

AND I THINK THAT THAT SLOWLY WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE IS THAT THE FOREIGN POLICY HAWKS WHO ARE WANTING TO SEND UNRESTRICTED WEAPONS AID TO ISRAEL WILL SLOWLY DRIFT INTO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OVER TIME.

>> TELL ME, WHAT ABOUT THE VP PICK.

HOW DOES THAT FACTOR IN TO THE UNCOMMITTED VOTERS?

>> I THINK A LOT OF UNCOMMITTED VOTERS ARE WATCHING THE VP PICK.

THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE VP PICK ALIGNS WITH THEIR VIEWS ON FOREIGN POLICY, ON HUMAN RIGHTS.

YOU KNOW, THERE ARE MANY PICKS OUT THERE THAT COULD BE BENEFICIAL AND BALANCE THE TICKET.

I THINK SOME VOTERS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT GOVERNOR JOSH SHAPIRO, NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF GAZA.

I MEAN, HE IS A SUPPORTER OF CHARTER SCHOOLS, WHICH TEACHERS UNIONS TEND TO OPPOSE.

HE IS ALLEGED TO HAVE MISHANDLED A SEXUAL HARASSMENT CASE.

HE WENT TO BATTLE WITH A PROGRESSIVE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, LARRY KRASNER, DIVIDING THE JUSTICE REFORM COMMUNITY AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS COMMUNITY IN PENNSYLVANIA.

AND ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT, HE HAS USED VERY ESCALATED RHETORIC TO COMPARE STUDENT PROTESTERS TO THE KU KLUX KLAN, EXTREME VIOLENT WHITE SUPREMACIST GROUPS, WHEREAS GOVERNOR BRASHEAR, TIM WALZ, THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A BLANK SLATE I THINK AND HAVE TAKEN LESS CONTROVERSIAL POSITIONS IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THAT DIVIDE THE ELECTORATE DEEPLY.

>> AMERICANS ARE ONLY ABOUT 1% OF THE POPULATION, BUT THEY'VE BEEN VERY INFLUENTIAL IN THIS SPECIFIC GROUP, THE UNCOMMITTED.

I WONDER, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT A POPULATION LIKE IN DEARBORN, IN MICHIGAN, WHICH IS AS IMPORTANT AS ANY OTHER COMMUNITY, MAYBE MORE SO BECAUSE IT'S A BATTLEGROUND STATE, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE OUTCOMES ARE HERE?

IS THIS GOING TO COME DOWN TO THIS SINGLE ISSUE FOR MICHIGAN?

>> SO IN RECENT POLLING OF BOTH ARAB AMERICANS AND MUSLIM AMERICANS, BEFORE VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS TOOK OVER THE TICKET, A PLURALITY OF ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICANS WERE NOT GOING TO VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE FIRST TIME THAT ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICANS DIDN'T VOTE FOR THE DRARK PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE SINCE THE YEAR 2000.

I THINK PEOPLE PEOPLE BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP HAVE THIS KIND OF MISGUIDED VIEW OF THE ARAB-AMERICAN AND MUSLIM AMERICAN VOTE, THAT IT'S DEMOCRATIC.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE WAS A BIG INCLUSION OF MUSLIM AMERICANS AND ARAB AMERICANS BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP'S RACIST AND ISLAMOPHOBIC RHETORIC AND ADVOCACY FOR THE MUSLIM BAN.

BUT LOYALTY TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS PRETTY THIN.

PEOPLE WANT SOME SORT OF RECOGNITION OF THEIR HUMANITY AND THEIR POLICY DEMANDS IN EXCHANGE FOR THEIR VOTES.

I WILL ALSO SAY THAT IN TERMS OF THE UNCOMMITTED VOTES, WE'VE SEEN DATA FROM MINNESOTA AND MICHIGAN THAT MOST OF THE UNCOMMITTED VOTES CAME FROM PRECINCTS THAT WERE DOMINATED BY VOTERS UNDER 40, NOT JUST NECESSARILY ARAB AND MUSLIM COMMUNITIES.

I THINK THIS IS A VERY DIVERSE BIG TENT COALITION THAT OBVIOUSLY INCLUDES MUSLIM AND ARAB DEMOCRATS, BUT ALSO JUST YOUNG DEMOCRATS OF ALL BACKGROUNDS.

>> I SHOULD REMIND THE AUDIENCE, ARAB IS NOT NECESSARILY SYNONYMOUS WITH MUSLIM.

THE MAJORITY OF ARAB-AMERICANS ARE IN FACT CHRISTIAN.

AND SEVERAL OF THOSE VOTE REPUBLICAN AND HAVE VOTED REPUBLICAN.

IT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN IS TRYING TO REACH OUT TO THIS AUDIENCE AS WELL.

HIS DAUGHTER TIFFANY, HER FATHER-IN-LAW IS AN ARAB-AMERICAN.

AND HE IS TRYING TO GET OUT ON THE STUMP.

DO YOU ANY THAT THOSE INROADS ARE WORKING FROM THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN, SEEING THAT THERE IS THIS OPPORTUNITY AND THIS POSSIBLE WEAKNESS OF IF THIS CONSTITUENCY IS NOT GOING TO AUTOMATICALLY ALIGN WITH THE DEMOCRATS, CAN WE PEEL OFF A SMALL PERCENTAGE HERE, A SMALL PERCENTAGE THERE.

>> THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN ARE DEFINITELY TRYING TO MAKE INROADS INTO THE ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

I THINK THAT DONALD TRUMP THRIVES IN AN ENVIRONMENT OF CYNICISM.

SO WHAT DONALD TRUMP'S CAMPAIGN IS DOING IS TRYING TO BREED CYNICISM IN OUR COMMUNITIES BY SHOWING THAT DEMOCRATS AND JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS DON'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

AND THAT'S A LOT EASIER WHEN YOU'RE NOT THE INCUMBENT TO JUST MAKE A CASE THAT YOU NEED TO PUNISH THE OTHER SIDE, THAT YOU NEED TO GET RID OF THE OTHER SIDE, AND TRUST SOMEONE NEW.

TRUST SOMEONE A LITTLE MORE CHAOTIC, A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFERENT THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO GIVE YOU WHAT YOU WANT.

I'VE ALSO SEEN A LOT OF MISINFORMATION AND DISINFORMATION PEDDLED BY REPUBLICAN PARTY ORGANIZATIONS AND TRUMP AFFILIATED SOCIAL MEDIA NETWORKS THAT USE CLIPS OF DONALD TRUMP IN INTERVIEWS WHERE HE SIGNALS THAT HE'S AGAINST NETANYAHU'S WAR, OR HE IS, YOU KNOW, HE IS NO LONGER FOR A MUSLIM BAN, THESE KINDS OF THINGS, WHICH I THINK ARE DELIBERATELY TRYING TO MISLEAD PEOPLE OF TRUMP'S VIEWS.

DONALD TRUMP, HIS FORMER AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL DAVID FREEDMAN, HIS SON-IN-LAW JARED KUSHNER, THEY HAVE SAID VERY CLEARLY THAT THEIR POLICIES ON PALESTINE ARE TO TURN GAZA INTO REAL ESTATE FOR AND EXPEL PALESTINIANS FROM GAZA TO INCREASE SETTLEMENT EXPANSIONS SO THAT ISRAEL CAN FINALLY ANNEX THE WEST BANK.

AND J.D.

VANCE IN PARTICULAR HAS TALKED ABOUT CRACKING DOWN ON PALESTINIAN AMERICAN, MUSLIM AMERICAN PROGRESSIVE CIVIL SOCIETY IN THE UNITED STATES IN ORDER TO TAKE AWAY FUNDING STATUS, LEGAL STATUS.

THIS IS PART OF PROJECT 2025.

IF YOU READ PRODUCT 2025, THEY'VE INCLUDED THEIR PLAN FOR PALESTINIAN CIVIL SOCIETY ADVOCACY.

AND I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD BE VERY WELL AWARE OF WHAT A TRUMP IS NO FRIEND TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, THE MUSLIM PEOPLE, ARAB AMERICANS, OR ANTI-WAR PROGRESSIVES.

>> A QUESTION THAT I WOULD ASK ALMOST ANY SINGLE ISSUE VOTER, WHETHER IT'S ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE OR IT'S ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS OR ABOUT ISRAEL AND PALESTINE IS SURE, IN A VACUUM, YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY VOTE WITH THAT INTEREST AND ONLY THAT INTEREST IN MIND.

THAT SAID, WHEN ARE SO MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE CONCERNED ABOUT A WHOLE HOST OF ISSUES THAT THEY THINK MIGHT SLIP THROUGH THE CRACKS AND HAVE A DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCE.

HOW DO YOU TELL THOSE VOTERS WHO SAY OKAY, YOU REALLY SHOULD BE CONCERNED MOST ABOUT PALESTINE AND MAYBE WITHHOLD YOUR VOTE, EVEN IF DONALD TRUMP BECOMES PRESIDENT?

>> I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO COMMUNICATE TO THOSE VOTERS IS WE'RE TAKING TO IT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY CONVENTION TO GET A SHIFT IN POLICY, AND THAT IT'S INCUMBENT ON VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS TO LISTEN TO THESE VOTERS AND EARN THEIR SUPPORT.

WE HAVE 700,000 VOTERS WHO VOTED UNCOMMITTED WHO WANT TO SEE SOMETHING.

AND THAT THEIR TEN MONTHS OF ACTIVISM, THEIR TEN MONTHS OF ORGANIZING, THEIR TEN MONTHS OF PROTESTING THIS WAR HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED BY THIS DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

IT'S BEEN RECOGNIZED BY THE CANDIDATE THAT SEES THESE VOTERS AS PART OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND NOT ANTITHETICAL TO IT.

I THINK MANY PEOPLE FEEL VERY ALIENATED FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN.

I THINK ELECTIONS ARE ESSENTIALLY ABOUT CHOOSING WHAT ORGANIZING TRAIN YOU WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN.

OBVIOUSLY NO ONE EXPECTS THE PRESIDENT TO ALIGN COMPLETELY WITH THEIR VIEWS ON EVERY SINGLE TOPIC.

BUT I DO THINK THAT IT'S ABOUT WHO YOUR -- WHO YOU'RE ADVOCATING AGAINST, WHO YOU'RE PRESSURING.

AND I THINK VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS WOULD BE MORE OPEN TO THAT PRESSURE THAN DONALD TRUMP AND J.D.

VANCE.

THE LAST THING I'LL SAY IS WHEN PEOPLE -- THE AMOUNT OF HUMAN SUFFERING THAT YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE SEEN ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA FOR THE PAST TEN MONTHS, WHEN MUSLIM AND ARAB AMERICANS SEE PEOPLE WITH FACES AND NAMES LIKE THEIRS COMPLETELY DEHUMANIZED, CHILDREN WITH LIMBS FALLING APART, WOMEN WAILING FOR THEIR HUSBANDS AND CHILDREN, I THINK PEOPLE'S SPIRITS ARE VERY, VERY IN NEED OF SOME HEALING AND REPAIR, AND I HOPE THAT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS CAN UNITE PEOPLE AROUND A VISION FOR THE COUNTRY AND FOR THE WORLD THAT SPEAKS TO THAT PAIN THAT PEOPLE ARE FEELING.

>> WHAT IF SHE SAYS BACK TO YOU, OKAY, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT?

I'M STILL NOT THE PRESIDENT.

WHAT WOULD YOU ALSO LIKE JOE BIDEN TO DO BETWEEN NOW AND THEN?

AND WHAT IF KAMALA HARRIS SAYS I WILL TRY TO MAKE THIS A PRIORITY ONCE I GET INTO OFFICE, RIGHT, VERSUS SOMEBODY WHO CAN SAY LET ME DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS RIGHT NOW?

>> I THINK PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO HEAR WHAT THE VICE PRESIDENT HAS TO SAY.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO HAVE AN EXCHANGE OF IDEAS AND THOUGHT PROCESS.

BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY BACK TO HER IS LOOK, AFTER THE CONVENTION, THIS DELEGATION AND THE 700,000 VOTERS IT'S ACCOUNTABLE TO COULD TELL PEOPLE THAT WE HAD A MEETING AND WHILE WE OPPOSE TRUMP, VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS DIDN'T MEET THE THINGS THAT WE WANTED HER TO MEET.

OR THEY COULD GO OUT TO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND SAY VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HEARD US, AND I THINK SHE WOULD DO A LOT TO CHANGE THE CONDITIONS FOR PALESTINIANS ON THE GROUND AND PALESTINIAN AMERICANS IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND SHE WILL MOVE TOWARD HAVING A BALANCED APPROACH TOWARD ISRAEL IN WHICH WE DON'T SEND UNRESTRICTED WEAPONS AID.

JUST THIS WEEK KEIR STARMER'S GOVERNMENT, THE TIMES OF ISRAEL REPORTED THIS, IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, THE NEW LABOUR GOVERNMENT SAID THEY'RE MOVING TOWARDS AN ARMS EMBARGO ITSELF.

THIS IS THE UNITED STATES' BIGGEST ALLY.

I DON'T THINK IT'S FAR-FETCHED FOR THE UNITED STATES TO FOLLOW WHAT THE UNITED KINGDOM IS EXPECTED TO DO IN THE COMING WEEKS.

SO I WOULD TELL VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS SHE HAS A CHANCE TO EXCITE PEOPLE, TO GIVE ENTHUSIASM TO VOTERS THAT OTHERWISE WEREN'T ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS IN THIS ELECTION, OR PEOPLE WILL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE BE SILENT, MAYBE SIT ON THEIR HANDS A LITTLE BIT.

THEY WON'T VOTE FOR TRUMP, BUT THEY WON'T GO OUT THERE AND KNOCK DOORS IN THEIR COMMUNITIES IN STATES LIKE MICHIGAN OR GEORGIA.

>> WALEED SHAHID, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND CO-FOUNDER OF THE NATIONAL UNCOMMITTED MOVEMENT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EACH NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO." ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.