>> tonight on all in -- >> this was not a perfect election, but it was safe and secure. the votes have been counted accurately. >> all but one arizona county certifies election results, as deniers rage in maricopa. >> this is a war between good and evil. >> curse upon you. a curse upon all of you. >> i came here today to get an up close and personal look at the seven traitors to the united states constitution. -- for staying at that desk -- >> tonight, republican arizona house speaker rusty bowers, on the enduring potency of donald trump's big lie. then -- >> president trump was wrong to give a white nationalist, an antisemite, and a holocaust denier, a seat at the table. >> what dinner at mar-a-lago with nick fuentes and kanye actually says about the far-right and the disgraced ex president? plus -- kellyanne conway's surprise five hour visit with

the january 6th committee, and eight days from a warnock what walker rematch. the incredible scene in georgia that republicans are trying to prevent. when all in starts right now. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. well, today is the deadline for all 15 counties in the state of arizona to certify the results of this month's election. we know from 2020 that election really ends when the votes are certified, not when the call is made by a news organization. and this election, in arizona, was a brutal one for arizona republicans, who did not win any of the four, highly contested statewide races. not for senate, nor for governor, nor for secretary of state, or it looks like, attorney general. now, that ag race is the only one of the four that is still too close to call, but democratic chris mazes leading

by just about 500 votes. now since the margin is less than half a percentage point, it will go to an automatic recount under arizona law, that is set to begin next month. arizona probably had the most aggressive group of pro, big lie election deniers on the ballot than any contested state this year. that includes blake masters, who's the senate candidate, and kari lake who was the gubernatorial candidate. mark finchem, who we spent a lot of time on the show covering for secretary of state. and a holiday for attorney general. and, again, like their counterparts around the country from wisconsin to pennsylvania to michigan, they lost. by and large, while they defeated election deniers and those other big marquee contested statewide races and other states, by and large, while they were not at all particularly gracious about it, leave it eventually what, with their tail between their legs, to kind of concede their loss.

some of them put out statements, some of them actually gave the microphone, with one notable exception, and that is kari lake an arizona. the same day the networks called the race for her opponent katie hobbs, lake tweeted, quote, arizonans no bs when they see it. and proceeded to begin whipping up her supporters into a frenzy on social media, claiming that -- yes, you probably guessed this -- the election was rigged and stolen. >> the 2022 general election in arizona was botched and broken beyond repair. this isn't about republicans or democrats, this is about our sacred right to vote, a right that many voters were sadly deprived of enough ember eighth. tens of thousands of you have reached out, pleading with me to fight this fight. rest assured, i will, because if we give up now, we will no longer have a country. >> now, this morning, the former president of the united states issued his own demanded that keri lake be, quote, and i quote him here, installed as arizona's next governor and a complete illegal reversal of

the democratic will of voters. he's got kind of thing for that. so, right now, in arizona, we are seeing that 2020 trump playbook attempted again for the first time since it was attempted on january six. and we are seeing how dangerous it is, as maga followers respond to their leaders. today, a republican official in rural cochise county refused to certify the results of the election. so, they are the only county, they're gonna miss that deadline that's required by state law. they could face felony charges. secretary of state and governor elect, katie hobbs, said she intends to file a lawsuit against cochise county, to compel the officials there to certify the results. her spokesperson told nbc news in part, quote, the secretary will use all available legal remedies to compel compliance with arizona law, and protect voters rights to have their votes counted. now, all of the 14 other

counties in arizona did ultimately certify the results today, although, it wasn't smooth sailing. republican supervisors in mojave county considered doing otherwise, plus holding the vote for several hours. and then, there were officials and the states largest county, maricopa, who unanimously certify the election results there, but only after hearing from a angry crowd voters. now, you remember, maricopa, right? the largest county. that is where phoenix is. those officials where the target of an incredible amount of harassment, intimidation, and vitriol, following donald trump's loss there in 2020. that was the scene outside the board of supervisors, the boot of elections headquarters. and something not quite as scary as that, but something along those lines is happening again. maricopa county supervisor bill gates was first to go into hiding earlier this month, after receiving death threats.

and the rhetoric and maricopa county was not dialed down today. >> my name is kathy roscoe. i live in maricopa county. i came here today to get an up close and personal look at the seven traders to the united states constitution -- >> again, please -- >> who are sitting at that desk. interference in an election in the united states of america, mr. gates, is a capital offense. it's considered treason, punishable by the death penalty. >> this whole thing was a sham. you are violating the constitution. you are violating our rights by saying you can only petition the government for two minutes. who made you king? >> this is found in the book of psalms, chapter 58, justice you high and mighty politicians, don't even know the meaning of the word fairness, which of you has any left not one. >> what we saw on election day was outrageous, and to say that it was anything but that is either you think we are stupid,

or you are just that arrogant. if you certified today, the only thing you will be certifying is your corruption. >> the way that you guys can just sit there is disgusting. watching you pledge allegiance to my flag was disgusting, the way that you sold us out. this is vote trafficking at its finest. i've seen the criminal element. you are vote traffickers. you are vote trafficker, criminal. course upon you. curse upon all of you, you smug, smug people. i got another chicken -- mr. hickman. >> a little note there, apparently, there's a conspiracy theory floating around on certain quarters, that one of the borders to providers was feeding ballots to chickens. that's not true. but i think it explains the chicken reference, although even knows. what we heard and saw today in arizona where some of the worst years to come true, right? about what might happen in the wake of this election. and there were calls of what happened two years ago when donald trump spread the big lie, stop the mob, justice kari lake like she's doing now. and after the 2020 election, donald trump's many attempts to

overthrow, again, the lawful results to obstruct them, to stop them from being certified, to remain in power, focused on arizona. the ex presidents allies pressured the speaker of the arizona house, conservative pro-life republican rusty bowers, to go along with a coup. testified before the january 6th committee back in june, bowers said, trump's lawyer, john eastman, asked him personally to decertify arizona state 2020 election results. >> and you are asking me to do something that's never been done in history, the history of the united states? and i'm gonna put my state through that without sufficient proof, and that's going to be good enough with me, that i would put us through that, my state, that i swore to uphold both in constitution and in law, no, sir. >> mr. bowers would not back down. he said no, over and over, when he faced dilute of threats and intimidation, again, testifying before the january six committee, speaker rusty bowers described the lies that were dispute about him in his own

community, while his daughter lay dying inside his home. >> we have various groups come by and they have had video, panel trucks with videos of me, proclaiming me to be a pedophile, and a pervert, and a corrupt politician, and blaring out speakers in my neighborhood, and leaving literature both on my property, and arguing and threatening with neighbors and with myself. at the same time, on some of these, we had a daughter who was gravely ill, who was upset by what was happening outside. >> mr. bowers, who is term loaded for running again for the arizona house, went out to lose and a primary for state senate seat to a trump endorsed opponent. he's now watching all this on

fold for the second time in his home state. joining me now is rusty bowers, the republican speaker of the arizona house of representatives. mister speaker, it's good to have your. i just want to start by saying how struck i was by your testimony before the committee, how much i've had occasion to think about it, time and time again. so i just wanted to thank you for that. >> welcome, sir. >> let me ask your reaction to what happened in arizona today. at some level, i suppose it could have been worse. there was some noises about a bunch of different counties, other than coaches, not voting to certify. but given that you have one committee, sort of, acting, one county acting flagrantly in

violation of law, and the scene at maricopa county, what do you make of what happened today? >> well, we've seen the residuals of the carpet bombing that donald trump did and that republican party and in arizona, and in a lot of other states. it's the cancer, maybe we should call it the virus. it should've been destructively inoculated with truth. there has to be some arbiter, i guess, of truth that might be the courts, but ultimately, it doesn't seem to matter, there can be any error in the creating of the ballots, it was no part of a conspiracy. and these errors are not allowed, not viewed as being something even acceptable for a couple of hours, it is just one thing after another, after another. and that's part of this residue. you don't need a truth, you just made an opinion, and you just need to be able to yell it loudly, maybe with lace it with some biblical references that somehow gavitt justification. sad, sad for those who are

acting that way, but i can say it is totally unexpected. >> i should note that the bill gates, who's the chair of that board, was at pains today to sort of walk people through, to your point, a kind of factual rebuttal of this. i, mean they really did engage on the merits, right? here's what the complaint is, here's why this happened with these ballots, to not that much avail. how much do you think this decision to not concede ends up being the sort of driver or trigger for this? or how much of that is independent of that decision that she's made? >> well, i think it's all part

of a whole, a whole of the -- if i can't when, evidently, the primary was okay, nobody was cheating there. but now, the general's back because we lost, and she told us ahead of time. if i lose, it's gonna be because there was cheating. it's the same mentality that permeates a certain group in our state and elsewhere, and this is the result. i do think it's part of it. i think someone responsible would say, look, we didn't make it. we came close. let's go regroup. but not this group, this group is going to burn apart, or burned down the party, or tear apart anybody that gets in the way, and so, causes a lot of us to think what might we do that would be helpful in the future that could bring us some aspect of a peaceful election season, if there is such a thing. >> -- >> right now --

>> you just use the phrase, burn down the party. and i wanted to get your reaction to the performance of republican statewide candidates and your state. obviously, our zone is a closely divided state, a fairly popular republican incumbent governor, who is if i'm not mistaken, doug ducey, it does seem that this is not a state that you can't win statewide as a republican. in fact, many examples of that. and yet it it appears that the statewide, big contested statewide candidates did go over. we don't know about that ag race. do you think the embrace of this form of politics and the big lie and all that was part of why they came up short? >> absolutely. look at the one republican who just blew everything, kimberly yay -- everybody voted for her. a lot of republicans voted for

her, they did not vote for the other is. and if you look like 187,000 more than she got -- 60,000 more than the government and people are speaking. i'm wondering what's wrong with the hearing aid of some of my friends. they are telling us, this is not how we should do business. >> well, can i ask you this? i mean, obviously, i was so struck by you discussing the role of faith played and the conversations you had in 2020, and also, your sense of integrity. and it has really stayed with me. but also, you are a politician, and politicians tend to follow the incentives that get them reelected, right? people make more or less calculations, but they also make calculations about politics. when you put aside this

question of integrity, morality, it does seem like this is not working, just you know, sheer political sense. and it is odd to me that that doesn't seem to breakthrough as much as you might expect it to. >> well, it's because on their side, it's their religious part of you. if they are the ones who they own faith, and their faith is a faith of dissension, a faith of this division, but somehow, we are united by division. it's orwellian, and it's -- not a psychologist. i may as well stuck with art. i can figure that one out. >> i've heard you quite being to viktor, speak about. thank you very much for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. >> thank, you sir. i appreciate it. >> coming up -- the former vice president of the united states is speaking out against his former boss for host meghan antisemitic white nationalist at his florida retirement home, along with an antisemitic rapper. what donald trump's dinner says about the continued decline of the republican party, next.

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away things. fit together with away things. ♪ ♪ that's our thing. ♪ ♪

i know there's conflicting information about dupuytren's contracture. i thought i couldn't get treatment yet? well, people may think that their contracture has to be severe to be treated, but it doesn't. if you can't lay your hand flat on the table, talk to a hand specialist. but what if i don't want surgery? well, then you should find a hand specialist certified to offer nonsurgical treatments. what's the next step? >> the rupert murdoch-owned visit findahandspecialist.com today to get started. newspaper, new york post, continued in its effort to push republicans away from donald trump out of fear of losing it another election, ran this on its front page saturday, quote, trump dines with white supremacist. that is, you know, a little banner there at the bottom of the screen. now, the white supremacists their alluding to there is nick fuentes. he is a live streamer, clear racist, holocaust denier, used terrific lake racial slur when

referring to steve bannon's attempt to outreach black americans and the midterm election. a slur he left off saying, quote, that one slipped out. he is about as a viral person as you can find in public life, to the extent that you could classify him as that. and there he was, having dinner at the ex presidents retirement home. he was there as a guest with rapper ye, formerly known as kanye west, who's attempting, and appears to have his own kind of presidential campaign amid a slew of antisemitic outbursts. and there was, on one level, something awful and terrifying about all these men dining together at mar-a-lago. the columnist will bunch from the philadelphia inquirer, argues it's also a side of political weakness, this latest piece titled the far-right is losing, that's why america has never been so dangerous, quote, the forces of 400 years of white supremacy culture are like a wounded bear right now, lashing out, and extremely dangerous, because it's proponents know their seriously endangered species. and will bunch joins me now.

will, i think a lot of people felt considerable alarm at this news, which is dominated headlines understandably over the last 24, 48 hours. what is the significance for the political power of this part of american politics? the most virulent, the most bigoted seeing someone get an audience with the ex president. >> well, i think what is interesting is, you know, once this has been exposed, trump, you know, condemned, never condemned fuentes. he's basically doubled down on this. and the reason why i had the space out tonight, he can't afford to lose that part of his base, you know, that these are now his most devoted followers. these are the people he needs to philip his rallies that he flies out to every week. and so, he doesn't want to alienate them, and you know, i think it speaks to a moment where, as you quoted from my piece there, that republican party is like a wounded bear

and lashing out now. they just had a string of defeats when donald trump was their leader. they lost the 2018 midterms. trump lost the 2020 election. they had a really disappointing showing earlier this month in the midterms, even some of their allies around the world, like bolsonaro, are going down and elections. and the thing is, you know, and weakness, if they're not getting the most votes, and they turn to what's next. and that's a violence, intimidation, it's the worst things, you know, racism, sexism, homophobia. and we are seeing all of that on display. it's very alarming, but it's also important to understand that this is coming from a place of weakness not strength. >> yeah, the point you make when you referenced bolsonaro, and you said bolsonaroâs recent loss in brazil, as well as the loosening hold of conservatives on the wider culture and an increasingly

multicultural educated u.s. society, sparking this dangerous reaction. the thing i think about is, from 2016 through 2019, i mean, 2016, you had brexit, you are trumps surprise victory, which again, he lost a natural popular vote by two points. bolsonaro is elected in 2018. there is of course war bomb, there's of course mary le pen, getting closer and closer to what looks like possibly governing majority. there's right-wing governments taking over in poland, as well, through elections. this sense of sort of a rising tide of reactionary populist nationalism, you know, setting itself against liberalism, against multiculturalism, specifically, it does feel very different now, not that the threat has receded, but it doesn't feel like that, and descended political movement. and trump seems, to me at this point, to kind of epitomized its prospects. >> yeah, i think so. i mean i, think there's stuck with him, you know? i mean, in a terrible couple of

weeks for donald trump, another pole just came out showing him or overwhelming leader in the republican primary field. and what's bizarre is the weaker he looks, the more other candidates are drawn into the field, and that has happened in the 2016. he does pretty well in this field. trump may be looking at that divided field, and may fuel that need to shore up this extreme right supremacist christian nationalists space. >> do you think it matters whether other republicans condemn, you know, this guy, or trump for dining with him, or west's comments? or is it ultimately, they're making these sort of tactical decisions that don't have any moral force either way? >> no, i think it matters a lot. i mean, i think the climate is alarming, you know, kind of related to the fuentes think, just a few days earlier, when you had that club q massacre in colorado springs, it was very

surprising how few republicans were condemning that. and a lot of the leading voices on the right kind of doubling down on homophobia, you know, it went by tucker carlson, who was two nights after the shooting, was on the air, you know, talking about pedophiles going after our kids. that was his message, instead of, you know, how rhetoric had led to this violent shooting that killed five people in an lgbtq nightclub. and you know, the weakness there, and just the fear, and intimidation of party leaders refusing to condemn these types of things is really, i think, important to people out there, which is why it just feels like such a dangerous time in america right now, you know? you know, we haven't seen antisemitism like this in years, and here we are, talking about it. and, you know, the refusal to condemn, i think, is really getting a lot of strength. >> all right, will bunch, thank you very much. >> thanks, chris. >> still ahead -- after falling flat in the

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election, a couple of weeks ago,

deep into the night, or the day after, it was just dawning on republicans and conservatives, and maga devotees that the red wave they were all waiting for was not gonna come. a recall of the extremist far-right arizona republican state senate wendy rogers, probably as far and extreme as any elected official in the country, working through the various statements of this on a live webcast. >> you know the state really well, even where an activist for a while. the vibe on the ground was totally different than this, wasn't it? >> yes, well we wonder now if we were in an echo chamber. >> well, i mean look -- >> i don't know. i'm just beginning to get some perspective. >> huh, yeah, maybe. maybe you are in an echo chamber? that remarkable, little moment, just tiny little moment of self awareness does not appear to have lasted very long, because three weeks later, and by and large, the republican party, the conservative movement, all of the maga people seem intent on pursuing the same cruel populism politics that so badly underperformed on election day. now, we all know there is no

moral -- we've been watching this for seven years. there's no expectation. but there is a palpable awareness that seems to be felt among republicans who among their desired power, that trump maga republicans seem to be obtaining it. so then, what? claire mccaskill is a former democratic senator from missouri. carlos curbelo is a former publican congressman from florida. and they both join me now. i mean, carlos, there's something sort of remarkable here. you know, we had election night, which was disappointing for republicans. they were talking about 40, 50 seats. they were talking about winning the senate and flipping state houses. and it was very clear that did not mature. and the reason it didn't mature

was this consistent underperformance of the most trump aligned maga -- this idea of maybe this is not working for us. and here we are, three weeks later, it's like the ex president is the only person to declare, and he's having like a guy who throws the n-word at holocaust denier to have dinner down at mar-a-lago, and just like we are back in 2016 again? >> that's right, chris, look the senator from arizona, to her credit, she figured it out. the average voter does not like liars. the average voter does not want republicans or anyone to follow donald trump. and by the way, it's not that hard to be a successful republican these days. all you have to do is not lie blatantly. look at the delta between brian kemp and herschel walker, and chris sununu and don bolduc. so, she figured it out. we'll see now if this latest trump development, if the rest of them can figure it out. as you said, not very moral reasons, because i think the time for that has elapsed.

but at least for practical reasons, because they want to win elections, following donald trump is not the path to winning elections. and that's probably a good thing for our country. >> you know, mike pence was interviewed, claire, about this dinner. and you know, he at least came out and said it, right? here is what he had to say. >> president trump was wrong to give a white nationalist, an antisemite, and a holocaust denier a seat at the table. and i think he should apologize for it, and he should denounce those individuals and their hateful rhetoric, without qualification. >> now, i mean, there is a lot of mealymouthed versions. that was probably the least mealymouthed. you've got lindsey graham, it's double standard, jada. -- if you're gonna run against a guy like this, you gotta do this. like, am i wrong? and my misreading the politics here? >> i'll tell you what makes me giggle is that mike pence said that trump should apologize. as he meant donald trump? >> right.

>> i mean, clearly, he doesn't know the man. apology is not in his lexicon. this is not something donald trump would ever do. he would never admit it was wrong. he would never apologize. so, i agree with mike pence, as you said, blah, blah, blah. one of my favorites today was john cornyn, saying he had better things to do, and condemn the leader of his party for having dinner with someone who call the victims of the holocaust a -- now, what does he have that's better to do than condemning at leader who thinks it's appropriate to dine with white nationalists and antisemites? i can't imagine anything john corden had to do today that was more important than that. so, you know, they're still afraid of the base, of the republican party, and even though trump align candidates are not ready, he still has more than 50% of the republican base following his corner, and these other republicans very afraid of those folks. >> and that cornyn quote, carlos, i don't want to overly psychologist here, but indulge me for 30 seconds. but here's the dynamic that happens. the reason they get asked this is because donald trump is a

bad person who does horrible things all the time. but they get asked about him. they can't come out and say that, so what they do, they take their anger out on the press, or everyone else. so, you get this sort of crazy displaced resentment, like why are you making me go through this. and just feel like saying, guys, you could've been done with them. you could've impeached him, and just disqualify him. i don't go through the second. you think i wanna go through the second? you think all want to go through another one of these that you are forcing on us? but it's not our fault. it's your fault. it's your fault that we are asking you. >> chris, the solution is to lead. but as clare said, you cannot lead when you are afraid. you cannot lead with fear, and the fear is, well not a trump tweet anymore, but some kind of trump statement, a trump backed primary challenger, trump getting involved with some of these leadership races, especially in the house. but you are right. the solution here is to rip the band-aid off --

>> yes! >> -- and end it. by the way, the guys is a loser. he cost the republicans seats in the house and the senate. he cost to the presidency. what are you afraid of? you're losing anyway with him. >> this is the thing, again, you have to, if you're gonna do this, and there is some sense, i think, claire, again, not for any moral reason, but just purely for and many more elections can we afford to lose here, right? to rip the band-aid, whatever the metaphor you want to use, you need to pounce, you've got to move. and understand that people don't want to give him attention, and they also don't want to alienate the base by, you know, reaffirming, you know, the liberal media. but you can't -- like, straddle the. that's the thing i keep coming back to. like, if you want to go do it, go do it. you gotta go fight. and sometimes, politics is about conflict, and you can't skirt it. >> well, and here's the thing.

i think there will, they all have been kind of hypnotized into thinking that the base supports donald trump is not going anywhere. and they would go somewhere. they would go somewhere else, if there were leaders that stood up, and said the obvious. i mean, that's what happened in my race. i did not beat todd akin because of what he said. i beat todd akin because republicans stood up. that's how i won. and by the way, chris, there was some discussion about the strategy democrats had in promoting the maga candidates and primaries -- >> when i talked about that. >> yeah, guess what? it worked. >> it was a high-risk, a very high leverage play that did base the benefits, for instance, that peter meijer seat, democrats are gonna win that seat partly because of it. so, it was a very high leverage risk. i worry about the downside, but you know, when you make a high leverage bet, and you win the bet, you get to recoup the

winnings. claire mccaskill and carlos curbelo, thank you both. >> thanks, chris. >> still to come -- early voting is already underway and the georgia senate one of. but that was no sure thing. how it all played out in the absolutely incredible scenes that unfolded in georgia over the holiday weekend? we'll bring that to you, next. ♪ ♪ ♪ before dexcom g6, my diabetes was out of control. i was tired. not having the energy to do the things that i wanted to do. before dexcom g6, i was frustrated. all of that finger-pricking and all of that pain,

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georgia senate runoff election between democratic senator raphael warnock and republican herschel walker.

an election that will determine, among other things, whether democrats have an outright majority of 51 seats in the senate, or whether it remains 50/50 with kamala harris as the tie breaking vote. today is the first full day of early voting statewide. but over 20 georgia counties chose to allow early voting starting on saturday. republicans are trying to block saturday voting during the thanksgiving weekend, claiming it would violate state law. democrats sued and won. this is the scene that resulted. tens of thousands of voters showing up around the state on saturday, and even more on sunday. >> this is democracy in action. this is people voting. whoever they vote for, they're voting. that's the key to the whole thing, really. >> during the week, people have lives. they have to do jobs, children, a lot of things getting in the way them going out and doing the vote. >> we came directly from church. what better day to vote then on

community sunday for our community? and, so he said, yes, dear. >> senator warnock held several campaign events over the weekend, including with senator cory booker, democrat of -- andrew young. former president barack obama is headed to georgia to campaign for warnock on thursday. herschel walker was -- talk he took the long holiday weekend off from stumping. his offense today and couldn't with ben carson and -- first public events since last tuesday. in the new york times, it's reporting that ex president donald trump will not go to georgia to campaign for walker rock, after -- more political risks than rewards. trump's political week mix at this moment is good news for the health of the american -- american democracy. but there's another threat looming on the horizon and a case seemed to be argued before the supreme court. klobuchar joins me on that next.

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investigating the january 6th attack on the capital is apparently working right up until the end of 2022, and is still surprising us. today, former trump white house aide kellyanne conway arrived at the capitol. she met with committee investigators for almost five hours. as far as we know, she hadn't talked to the committee before this. it's expected the committee will issue a final report before the end of the year, with one last televised january 6th hearing before the new republican congress is sworn in

in january, and the committees shut down. -- the work of maintaining american democracy will continue. one of the people doing that work is senator amy klobuchar, democrat from minnesota, and member of the judiciary committee. she joins me now. senator, i'd like you to articulate how you view the senate's role and the senate majority's role in sort of providing a bulwark to american democracy against the forces that would seek to upend that now that the republicans are gonna take the house, and that will be in republican control on this next congress. >> exactly. and i would love to know what kellyanne conway told the investigators. i hope we will find out and i think in january 6th committee for their incredible work. over in the senate, because we kept the senate and we want to add that one more see it i love the people turning out to vote in georgia, that means that one, we can confirm judges and continue confirming judges.

you know the role they have played in rejecting election deniers and other claims throughout the system. that's number one. number two we want to, that electoral count act -- we're working to get that through before the end of the year. number three, the efforts that you just saw in georgia where democrats pushed to allow for, of course, saturday voting, continuing to push voting rights in every state capitol, and also on the federal level. not as easy, but we must continue the cause. protecting election workers. making sure that they have the resources they need. all this will be going on in the senate. we will of course allow those special counsel that was just appointed to be able to do his job with the important investigation going on in the justice department. >> you just mentioned how much the courts have been a locust of all this. in different ways. i think the courts have withstood assaults on, you know, flagrant attempts to overturn elections, particularly in

2020. whatever, some of the supreme courts jurisprudence on things like gerrymandering and the party rights act have been troubling, and aided and abetted some anti-democratic forces. you have an amicus greek -- next week, what's says up this notion that basically the state legislature is the only authority under the constitution that gets to decide rules about the election. a view that is, i think, roundly rejected by almost everyone except for some extremists. but now, it's before the court. >> this is an unbelievable case that a lot of your viewers may not have heard about. this is the north carolina legislature. they basically put forward the gerrymandered map. their supreme court, state supreme court, rejected the, and they said, you know what? we don't need you. we don't care about the balance of power. we're going right up to the supreme court and saying you cannot review what we do. so here's the interesting thing here, chris. not only did 19 of my incredible colleagues join me

on this amicus brief that we filed. there's another brief by the conference of chief justices, state supreme court justices, from liberal to very conservative in a rare moment trying to, filed a brief -- checks and balances. there must be state purview. so this argument, before the supreme court, it's gonna be very important. and it's not exactly as it appears. you've got people like stephen calabresi, one of the founders of the conservative judicial movement, on our side on this. you've got a number of lawyers like ben ginsburg, major lawyer for the republican party, on our side on this. you simply can't say, as a north carolina legislature did, guess, what we're not gonna be reviewed for anything we do. if the supreme court does not side with this very broad coalition of people saying you must have that balance of power, we could have extreme outcomes, chris, in terms of what state legislatures could do going forward. >> you've also got this kind of anti-democratic flywheel that starts to happen where because the state legislatures --

gerrymander themselves into power, can kind of barricaded themselves inside a jane and a, and if they have the ultimate final say, they get to steamroll the state supreme court. you end up in a bit of this place where there is this bizarre supremacy that's clicked into place where you can't really dislodge them. >> you can't get out of it. it struck forever in this for tax. that is why we have a balance of power. that's why we have governors with fetal powers. whether we like it or not. that is why we have a president and a court and a congressional group of people here in the house and senate that make decisions. it's not pretty. we know that. but the balance of powers have always been very important. that's why this case is the one case that no one's ever heard of that could make history either way. it could make history where we finally see some of these justice say i'm gonna do the right thing here and allowed

for the continuation of the balance of power, which is supported by every single state supreme court chief justice in the country, or i'm gonna go away a straight with these extremists, and there will be no end to what could go on with gerrymandered maps. >> quickly, some news i want to do to get a reaction. to the president put out a statement today saying he's urging congress to pass legislation to essentially impose a labor agreement between the big railroad movements and the railroad companies. this is an agreement that the unions have descended from. but congress -- basically override the unions dissent and force disagreement on them. would you support such legislation? >> i certainly support revolving this strike. one might this kind of been, a potential strike, i should say, as by congress getting involved. that's why they're bringing it to us. by the way, i think they continue to negotiate. one of the things that's concerning to me here, and i talked to some of my colleagues here, is this idea of sick leave.

they don't have any sick leave under this agreement. that's why some of the units, not all of them, i will be clear, some of the unions objected to this. that's what we're gonna consider now going forward, unless there's a way to reach an agreement. i know the president in the later's -- labor secretary doing everything they can, and pete buttigieg, to his office. but clearly on the table will be congressional intervention. >> senator amy klobuchar, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> that's all in on this monday night. the rachel maddow show starts right now. right now. right now. right now. right now. right now. -- >> good evening, rachel. >> good evening, chris. how is your thanksgiving? >> it was wonderful. everyone is sick. not covid, but you know, there's a lot going around. but it was absolutely

delightful. and with the family, my oldest, ryan, turned 11 today. i was very excited about that. >> nice. the birthday. >> she's fantastic. i was your thanksgiving? >> it was good. i know what you're saying about viral togetherness. and that very specific sense. whenever anybody's got, everybody's got it now. even in the absence of covid. luckily, knock on wood. but, yeah thanksgiving for me, for somebody who's kind of integrated, it's always both absolutely wonderful because i love our friends and family and adult orphans that end up at our house, and also, i just need to be alone for six weeks afterward to compensate. >> well, good luck with that. >> thank you very much. thanks, my friend. appreciate it. and think it's to all of you for joining us. it's good to have you here. the monday after the thanksgiving holiday weekend, thanksgiving holiday weekend >> good luck with that. >> thank you very much. thanks, my friend. appreciate it. thanks you at home for joining us this hour. great to have you here.ou the monday after the thanksgiving holiday weekend, it always has kind of a drill sargent feel to it for me.