‘Shogun’ Star Anna Sawai Breaks Down the Climactic Penultimate Episode: “It’s the Long Fight”

[This story contains major spoilers from Shōgun’s ninth episode, “Crimson Sky.”]

Shōgun star Anna Sawai is bidding adieu to Lady Akechi Mariko. 

The Japanese actor, who was born in New Zealand and raised in Japan, considers the acclaimed miniseries’ penultimate episode, “Crimson Sky,” to be her “final farewell” to her fan-favorite character. Written by Rachel Kondo/Caillin Puente and directed by Frederick E.O. Toye, the dramatic roller coaster of an episode concluded with Mariko sacrificing her life for Lord Yoshii Toranaga (Hiroyuki Sanada), all in an effort to signal Ishido Kazunari’s (Takehiro Hira) corruption and hopefully spark a rebellion. But as Sawai will soon find out, when an actor is fortunate enough to catch lightning in a bottle and create a beloved character, the audience and the world at large forever keep that character’s spirit alive — whether it’s through a compliment at a coffee shop, an interaction at a fan expo or even a question at a future press junket.

Last December, during a press day for Sawai’s second of three recent high-profile series, Monarch: Legacy of Monsters, The Hollywood Reporter — and this writer — happened to be the first outlet to ever ask Sawai about Shōgun. Much to her own surprise, she was so caught off guard by the question that she became overwhelmed with tearful emotion, all while images from this fateful ninth episode flooded her brain.

“When you asked me about [Shōgun], I hadn’t revisited the character since we wrapped. So it was like someone was touching that wound because her story is so bittersweet, and my whole experience on it was just so special,” Sawai now tells THR over Zoom while in Tokyo, Japan.

But there’s more to Mariko’s climactic sacrifice than meets the eye. Yes, she’s drawing attention to Ishido’s crimes of holding members of Lord Toranaga’s clan hostage and now assassinating some of them, but she purposefully announces herself by her maiden name, “Akechi Mariko,” just moments before the warehouse blast would take her life. 

As it turned out, she was playing the long game she’d been prevented from finishing for 14-plus years, so her present-day sacrifice was intended for both Lord Taranaga and her disgraced father, Lord Akechi Jinsai. The latter killed Japan’s pre-Taikō ruler, Lord Kuroda Nobuhisa, over his alleged corruption, and in response, Mariko’s father was forced to execute the rest of their family before committing seppuku himself. Mariko attempted to follow suit with her own seppuku in protest of this injustice, but Toda Buntaro (Shinnosuke Abe), as her newly wedded husband, routinely denied her annual request.

“It’s such a powerful moment because she’s not only serving her Lord [Toranaga], but she’s also fulfilling her father’s wishes. She’s allowing herself to follow in the footsteps of her father, which is her wish,” Sawai says. “Her name is currently Toda Mariko, which is Buntaro’s last name, but she says ‘Akechi Mariko’ in her final moment. She is always going to be her father’s daughter, and this is the long, long journey. It’s the long fight [involving her father]. It’s not just about right now.”

Earlier in the episode, Mariko was on the verge of committing seppuku until Ishido interrupted the proceeding to feign like he was finally permitting her party to leave Osaka Castle. And despite knowing that she’d survive the tense ordeal, Sawai still approached the scene as if Mariko was going to die, making the day rather emotional, especially when she recognized a parallel between the character’s present and past.

“On the day, I saw her son [Toda Ryûji] in the right-hand corner, and that really, really changed everything. What then went through my mind was that she had to basically see her family die in front of her, and now she was going to do the same thing to her son,” Sawai recalls. “So I think that Mariko was thinking about the big picture so much that she wasn’t able to really face what it would mean to leave her son in that same position.”

Below, during our recent spoiler conversation, Sawai also discusses what John “Anjin” Blackthorne ultimately represented to Mariko and her one lingering question involving her character’s definition of freedom.

***

When we spoke for Monarch: Legacy of Monsters, I asked about Shōgun at the very end of our chat, and you then became visibly emotional as you explained how you hadn’t talked about it yet. So I just want to start by asking if you remember what was on your mind at the time and whether this climactic ninth episode factored into your emotions that day? 

I was just talking about you in my previous meeting, because you were the first one that brought up Shōgun to me, and I was so taken aback and surprised at how I was reacting to your question. But it was just her whole journey and what the show meant to me, and I guess I was still carrying it at that moment. Right now, I’m slowly starting to be able to talk about the whole show without breaking down, but when you asked me about it, I hadn’t revisited the character since we wrapped. So it was like someone was touching that wound because her story is so bittersweet, and my whole experience on it was just so special. 

Did images from episode nine flash through your mind at the time?

Yeah, those images definitely did flash through my mind. I feel like I’m still getting ready to say goodbye. I was texting someone from FX, and I was like, “This week is my final farewell to the character.” 

At the end of episode eight, Toranaga (Hiroyuki Sanada) asks Mariko if she’s ready to do her part, and she certainly was. How long do you think they had their plan in place?

Mariko is only finding out in that moment that this was all part of the plan. She was mourning Hiromatsu-sama [Tokuma Nishioka], her father-in-law, because she thought that they weren’t in it together. And that’s why when she does hear about how Hiromatsu-sama sacrificed his life in order to fulfill his purpose to the Lord [Toranaga], that’s her realization of, “Oh, this was all supposed to happen, and now it’s my turn to do whatever the Lord asks.” And so, in that moment, she recognizes that, and then episode nine is all about her just taking action. 

I wrongly assumed that the plan was in place for a little while. I thought that explained why, in episode eight, Mariko was so willing to twist the figurative knife into Buntaro (Shinnosuke Abe), knowing that she’d never see him again.

In episode seven, we see her ask the Lord for permission to take her own life, and she wouldn’t ask for that if she knew that it was all part of the plan. She was a little bit lost then. It’s so interesting because people kind of love Buntaro’s character, but from my point of view, Mariko has been through a very rough time with him. They never shared a happy marriage. She didn’t want to get married to him, and he was very abusive, not only to her, but to her son as well. And it’s such a selfish thing that he’s asking for, and she knows that they’re all about to die, because the Lord is about to give up. So she doesn’t want to give [a shared death] to him, and she wants him to know that she’s not happy and that she was never happy with their marriage. And even though death is what she wants, death with him is not what she’s looking for.

We begin episode nine with a flashback to 14 years earlier when Mariko was pregnant and suicidal. It serves as a contrast to her present-day storyline and how she’s now willing to sacrifice her life under markedly different circumstances. Her family’s end, as she described in episode five, was solely motivating her attempt during the flashback?

Yes, it’s less about feeling shameful for still living, and it’s more about, “I don’t agree with the fact that my father and my whole family had to die, but if that is what happened, then I shall follow their footsteps. I’m going to be with them. I’m part of this whole protest.” So that is the meaning behind her will to die throughout the whole show. It’s not that she’s saddened and just wants to die. It’s more like, “I don’t agree with this. This is not right.” And that’s the message that she keeps until her very last breath. 

Back in the present, she arrives in Osaka, and she soon tries to establish that Ishido (Takehiro Hira) is holding her and her party captive. So was the plan to take her life in protest of this captivity and hopefully trigger a revolt from the high families or someone of influence?

Yes, no one’s talking about how the family members are being held hostage, and she’s trying to prove a point, because Ishido is being the manipulative person that he is and pretending like he’s not. And if he is taking the people hostage, then that is also a reason for war. That’s going to cause a totally different thing, and so she’s trying to prove that point. And she knows that he’s not going to let her go, but by being able to showcase that to everyone, Toranaga-sama can take action. So proving that [Ishido] is taking everyone hostage is the whole point of that scene. 

Her son, Toda Ryûji (Yuua Yamanaka), and Anjin (Cosmo Jarvis) both try to convince her not to commit seppuku, but she refuses their pleas. Is this just another example of how allegiance to a lord tops all else, even blood?

Anjin-sama definitely believes in a meaningful life in a different way, and her son is too young to really understand. But she believes that death can have a greater cause. She believes that her life isn’t something that she should be too precious about if it can prove something. And so, yes, if this all turns out the way that the Lord plans … she knows that the Lord is looking at the bigger picture, so that’s the reason why she tells them she can’t stay.

Anjin takes issue with Toranaga’s pattern of using his most loyal vassals to do his bidding. Does part of you agree with him, even if Mariko does not?

I wish there was a better way to do it without having his closest people take their lives, but in this situation, it was probably necessary. Toranaga-sama can’t go into the castle and do all this. It would turn out completely differently. So he needs these people, and it is just necessary. Toranaga-sama is the leader. He’s not only thinking about himself, but he’s also thinking about the whole of Japan. And so it would’ve been better if there were other ways to go about it, but this is the necessary thing to do. It’s to use the people closest to you and to only share your plan with them, so that the whole of Japan will follow, and the leaders on the other side won’t know. 

Yabushige (Tadanobu Asano) betrayed Mariko and everyone else that’s tied to Toranaga’s clan. Do you think she would be all that surprised by his double cross? 

I think she would be shocked in a way, but if anyone were to do it, I think she would have guessed that it was Yabushige-sama.

By announcing Ishido’s treachery right before her explosive death, is she mostly saying that for her own sake before she passes on? Or is it for the witnesses in front of her?

I think it’s for the witnesses and for herself. If it were only for herself, maybe she wouldn’t even have to vocalize it, so she wants people to know why she is doing this. It’s such a powerful moment because she’s not only serving her Lord, but she’s also fulfilling her father’s wishes. She’s allowing herself to follow in the footsteps of her father, which is her wish. And in that moment, she does want the witnesses to hear it, because this is the first and the last time that she’ll say, “Akechi Mariko,” which is her last name from her father and her first name. Her name is currently Toda Mariko, which is Buntaro’s last name, but she says Akechi Mariko in her final moment. She is always going to be her father’s daughter, and this is the long, long journey. It’s the long fight [involving her father]. It’s not just about right now.

Between her near seppuku scene and her actual death scene, were both days equally emotional for you?

Yes, if I went into the seppuku scene, thinking, “Well, she’s going to live,” then it wouldn’t have had that weight. So I went into it thinking that this was really the moment that she was going to die, and I remember being surprised. I had only thought about the meaning of serving her Lord and having to take her life in front of the witnesses. But then, on the day, I saw her son in the right-hand corner, and that really, really changed everything. What then went through my mind was that she had to basically see her family die in front of her, and now she was going to do the same thing to her son. So I think that Mariko was thinking about the big picture so much that she wasn’t able to really face what it would mean to leave her son in that same position. And so, on the day, I was having different realizations.

And then, going into the last warehouse scene, it was a very different death scene because that one comes a little bit more spontaneously. She did think that she was going to be released the next day and that the hostages would be released, but then she realizes, “Oh, they’re not going to stop. They’re not going to allow me to go out.” And so it’s just a very quick moment of recognizing what she needs to do, and it’s much more powerful because there’s not enough time for her to get emotional about it and go through everything in her head. It’s like, “This is what I need to do. Bye.”

She’s lived most of her life in accordance with the rules, rituals and obligations that come with her culture, allegiance and duty. Did Anjin ultimately represent her one real brush with free will and her own desires? 

I think so. I don’t think that she knew this in the beginning, but as she gets closer to him and he starts vocalizing what freedom is to him — especially in episode four when they have their talk at the hot spring — they get to escape for a moment. It’s not reality to her. It’s not realistic at all, but I think she understands that they can maybe dream about it. In a perfect world, she wouldn’t have to be tied down like this, but then again, that’s not her freedom. That is a different version of freedom. I don’t know if I completely understand what freedom means to her, because there’s the scene where she says, “If freedom is all you live for, then you’ll never be free of yourself.” So what does freedom mean to her? I don’t know. But freedom as we know it? Yes. John Blackthorne was that to her.

It’s mighty impressive how this series dramatized scenes involving interpretation. Given that you’re also bilingual, are you no stranger to playing the role of interpreter? 

Yeah, I’ve done it, but not often because a lot of my friends do speak Japanese and English. We actually mix both languages. But on the set of Shōgun, if the interpreter wasn’t there, then I would kind of step in. And even when there are translators, sometimes it doesn’t translate as directly. So a lot of people would chip in — and I would be one of them — to try to get the message across. And so, yes, I’ve done it quite often. 

Decades from now, when you reminisce about the experience of playing Lady Mariko on Shōgun, what day will you likely recall first? 

That’s a really difficult question! (Laughs.) I’m just thinking of a day that was probably during episode three. Toranaga snuck into the palanquin before we all set off, and I was just so happy that there were horses there. (Laughs.) So I’m just thinking of that random day right now, but I would have a more profound answer if I had more time to think about it. I just remember everyone wearing Covid masks, but I would still go up to the horses and take mine off when I was really close to one. So I have a lot of happy memories with the horses.

Well, I’m glad we got to finish what we started on Monarch.

Yeah, it’s been such a journey. I’ll be honest, when you asked me about what day I was going to think about decades from now, I almost teared up again … (Sawai begins to cry.) 

Oh no! I’m getting you to cry again. Why do I keep doing this!?

(Sawai is now laughing and crying.) You were the first one to ask about Shōgun and just thinking about this whole journey, it’s an emotional thing. 

***
Shōgun is currently airing on FX and Hulu.