Trump supporters of reddit, what do people not understand about Trump and/or your perspective?
I know I am very late to this but what frustrates me about this thread is that most of the top comments (based on upvotes) are all either saying that they arent trump supports but are speaking on behalf of them or are just making jokes. Actual trump supporters arent speaking up, probably because of the stigma attached to their views but also if they do speak up they just get insulted and ignored by those who claim to have an open mind. As I am from England I am not as well educated on this topic and I openly admit that however, it is VERY similar to that of the Brexit vote, where it got a majority but most of the people who voted for it are now staying quiet as to why. Which just makes it so impossible for us to get anywhere because everyone is just arguing about who voted what not why they did it. OP has asked for why people have voted for trump, I am willing to bet bar maybe one or two posts he still has no extra information on the topic.
TL;DR People who vote for stigmatised parties need to speak up, those who claim to be open minded and accepting need to allow them to speak.
It's a problem on all of r/askreddit really. People get hounded at all of the time for answering honestly to topics with tough answers.
We're supposed to upvote based on someone's quality of an answer, not whether we agree with it.
In a thread like this it's also important to understand the limits as far as arguing with someone who does answer the question honestly.
You get more genuine responses sorting by controversial.
Same thing is happening in Canada, or more specifically, Alberta. Alberta is a very conservative province and this last election a non-conservative party was voted in. Now that they're in they have been passing legislation that many Albertans don't agree with, especially while the province is in a downturn. In all the political talk I've heard I've very seldom heard a person speak up and say, "I vote for the NDP and here's why.."
I was just talking IRL with two of my closest friends about this and politics in America in general last night. We were depressed because it's either LEFTIST or RIGHT WINGER and the concept of being a moderate seems impossible. Like say, being pro civil rights but pro gun ownership, which could put you in either of the big two American parties ten or twenty years ago, so you'd have to define more about yourself and thus a great conversation could be had with another person. Now, most people seem to think moderate is a cop out or just doesn't exist.
Anyways, we got on the topic of Trump voters and on the topic of anti-Trump folk. In one side of an off-site social feed, conservatives were willfully ignoring a straight up new series of lies from Kelly Conway and refusing to hold her accountable. In the other side, people were arguing that the pink cat hats from the women's March were exclusionary to trans/POC women and that white feminism was oppressive. What tied those two things together? Well as me and my friends talked we saw some of my hat side friends arguing back and forth that the pink hats weren't fair vs the notion was to flash mob style have symbolism and pointing out that "demanding perfection will kill good." All the while I'm still perplexed the Trump side are eating nonsense about a fake massacre since they are supposed to hate fake news. But the thing is Trump folk were united. They were, as my one friend pointed out, willing to have faith to see their needs through from the moment they decided to vote for him. So if that means they all go all in, for all their X, Y, Z reasons they will. It's less about condoning Conway and more about faith in Trump. And while they've got a united front, and those MAGA logos, the leftists are still arguing over hats. Not even issues but. The color of hats.
(For the record, I know, yes there are deep issues tied to those hats for some but the thread in particular pointed out how no one tried to rally for a different color ahead of time and also that no one who is leftist cares if people wear rainbow or trans unity colors etc to make that hat their own so this shot at leftist unity once again devolved into olympics for DO IT RIGHT OR DONT BOTHER. Not my words or thread, it merely played into our discussion.)
It kind of bummed me out since the three of us were a mixed race, LGBTQ, mixed gender trio chatting this all out but. It's a fact of life right now. There isn't even a space for moderates any more, because 'you aren't doing your activism right, you aren't doing your politics right'. Soon the left is going to realize on the whole what some of my leftist friends were realizing in that pink hat thread. Forget the moderates, the left are consuming leftists. They're tearing themselves apart and it's pretty heartbreaking. The best compromise comes from all the voices (left and right) and leaves no one particularly happy but everyone's needs met. And right now, in day to day opportunities half the time one of those sides is silencing themselves while they all whisper 'shut up, no they should talk, no this message, not that symbolism, be quiet you always talk, this time me, talk talk talk, listen listen listen' but they aren't contextualizing anything they say or quote or demand present or from the past.
It's a shame. This county is so great when we work TOGETHER. And I don't mean our politicians. I mean talking to our fellow voters, the guy who has a flat tire, the girl who has too many groceries to carry. We open minds and repair our nations every day, not just once a year when we vote.
It's pretty simple, social interaction with people who don't agree with you and ridicule you isn't pleasant, so people with controversial views congregate in other places where their views are the norm and they don't have to defend themselves. I've had plenty of Trump supporters tell me they're sick of being called a racist for wanting to stop illegal immigration. While that's probably not the majority, or even a large part of either side of that discussion, it does happen and that's why they're keeping quiet.
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Just a quick meta comment: for the love of god don't try to refute the reasons that people support trump because this thread is about seeing other people's point of view not having political arguments with strangers over the Internet.
I'm seeing debates and civility. People recognizing the validity of the other side, but also providing counterpoints that contribute to discussion. People are having their voices heard, but not drowned out. I like it.
I see a lot of people getting down voted into oblivion
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Yea sorry about that, Most of us are Happy Trump is working with Israel again.
I'm also seeing a lot of people just shouting racism.
That's the problem with these threads. It's almost like a trap to bring people out to call them racist.
"I'm not a racist, but I voted for Trump"
Reply: "Let me tell you why you're racist."
I'll stay on topic and only discuss President Trump, not his opponent during the election. Ok I will touch on the DNC as a whole later, but I'll leave HRC almost entirely out of it, except as it relates to the DNC.
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Donald J. Trump
A political outsider and wildly successful business man. "But bankruptcy!" Yes, sometimes you file bankruptcy to restructure. But calling him a failure in business for a couple bankruptcies is like calling the champion of the world series of poker a shitty player because he lost a couple hands.
Sure President Trump says nasty things. But he's speaking his mind. I would rather have a politician who speaks their mind than parrots pre-written focus tested non-confrontational memos.
He wants to put America First. And this is a sentiment I wholly agree with. We have our own issues. We have our own problems. Our infrastructure is a mess, our veterans are being neglected, our inner cities are in shambles, and we need to start looking after ourselves before others. It's the airline safety 101 method. Please secure your own mask before assisting others.
I believe in a hand-up not a hand-out. Welfare should be a safety net, not a hammock. I was on it at one point after becoming a citizen. I got a job, and got off it. I don't need hand outs, I need a job. And with the America First policy having kept certain manufacturers here as well as some H1-B reform that has happened. Sure you can cry "corporate welfare" but that's better than "welfare". Because when you're jobless on welfare, you feel like shit.
When you at least have a job, you got something you can take pride in, get better at, move up. Being on welfare is stagnant. Even as an unskilled laborer I could learn to pour/smooth concrete, learn how to properly dig foundations, learn the proper mixtures, and maybe move up to supervisor in a few years. Keep going well maybe foreman, maybe start my own contracting company. Where as if I am on welfare now, I'll be on welfare 5, 10, 15 years from now. And all I'll do is decay, my skills will decay, my motivation will decay, my self worth will decay, and I will be dependent on the government for everything.
Since I mentioned coming to this country let's talk immigration. There is a process to come into this country and LEGALLY become a citizen. I did it. I waited on a list for years, I trained in my field, and applied. Got sponsored, learned to better my English instead of hanging out with he other slavs & speaking Serbian or Russian, went through the paperwork, and did everything right, took the exam and became a citizen. There is a legal process, and allowing people to ignore it is a slap in the face to every legal immigrant who went through it.
I support his stance on gun rights. I am a firm believer in my second amendment right to bear arms. I know some people don't like guns, that's fine. But it is a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT the same as your right to freedom of speech, or of religion, or against unreasonable search and seizure, or against self incrimination, or against cruel and unusual punishment, or against being forced to billet soldiers in your home. It is literally on par with those rights, if you believe the right to bear arms should be infringed you also agree with infringing every other right in the bill of rights. Excepting that you are trying to pass an amendment to repeal the 2nd.
States rights. I believe in returning power to the states. I am pro-choice. But I feel it should be a states issue, not a federal issue. I live in TX so I know my state will likely go the other way, but I will carry that fights on at the state level.
LGBT, I have honestly not seen legislation, or EO, or policy from Trump against the LGBT community. In fact, he is the first president in history to go into office in support of gay marriage (Obama was against it initially). Now mike Pence, yeah he seems like a nut job. But think about it like this: How much is President Trumps insurance policy? Just one Pence.
African American relations, I keep hearing President Trump is a racist. Can someone please show me some proof in his policy? I mean if you want to see a law which decimated the inner city largely black communities look no further than This law written by Joe Biden, and signed by President Clinton.
The trans pacific partnership would have been disastrous for many industries. And I am glad it is dead, but I'm sure it will creep back up as something else.
He is not perfect. I oppose him on issues such as abortion (he is pro life, I do believe it should be up to the states), I oppose him on environmental policy, yes we have too many regulations and I think better ones should be written. No I do not think a hard 1 on 2 off is the answer.
But I honestly believe he is doing this because he wants to better America. The man is 70 years old. And a billionaire. He did not need this job, he will likely not be long for this world after it, especially given the stress it puts on them. I mean just look at before and after pictures and just how much may of these people have aged. Some might say he's a megalomaniac, he just wants more power. Maybe.
And maybe he will be the worst thing we ever did. And if he is, maybe we will see some REAL change and progress. Because the last time we got that was during and after the great depression. And maybe he will be the wake up call the left needs. That, no your strategy of doubling down & blaming others (Racist, old, white males) isn't working. Maybe if you put forward a REAL progressive, you might win. Because you have lost, BIGLY in trying to prop up the Clinton machine. Let's tally those losses:
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11 governorships
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13 U.S. Senate seats, and thus the majority
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69 House seats, and thus the majority
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913 state legislative seats
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Which totaled 30 state legislative chambers.
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POTUS
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and thus SCOTUS
To put it simply, they blew it. Maybe they will realize they. done. fucked. up. And Maybe they will look inward, and realize their failings, instead of blaming a scapegoat & doubling down. This isn't blackjack, that's not a strategy.
Or maybe President Trump will be the greatest president we ever had. Maybe his policies will work. We simply don't know yet. But so far I am mostly happy with what I have seen.
I will leave you with one more video. Because Michael Moore saw the Trumpening coming. And maybe it will help others to understand.
I came in here looking for exactly this. I'm not a Trump supporter by any means, I just wanted to understand what is going on a little better. Thanks.
WOW! Fantastic write up!!
Thank you very much for your input. Thank you also for the Pence punchline -- I nearly spit my coffee all over my keyboard. That one is priceless. And Thank You for putting in the Michael Moore video. I had heard about it but not found the time to look it up. It really makes sense.
Zdravstvuyte my fellow American.
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because you're not even allowed to say "illegal immigrant". they so control the language that even the label isn't allowed because it's "bigoted".
It was a pretty easy choice for me.
I work in IT.
Trump wanted to fix the H1B visa abuse issue. Hillary wanted to increase the amount of H1B visas.
One was going to protect my job, the other was putting me at risk for being replaced by a lower cost foreign worker on a visa.
I'm also shocked at the judgement from liberals on who I voted for. How can you in good conscience vote for someone who we have evidence cheated her way through the primary. If anyone else had done that, they would have been forced to step down. Why did Hillary cheat, and then hire the woman who helped her do it, and everyone just pretend like it never happened and keep talking about how bad Trump is? The cognitive dissonance is mind blowing.
The especially hillary-ous part is that the Hillary campaign instructed the media to raise Trump's profile early on (along with Ted Cruz and Ben Carson), because they thought these three would be the easiest to beat -- the Republican "establishment' was dead-set against all of them. This is documented in the emails that were leaked through Wikileaks, specifically this one: [link to PDF]
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails//fileid/1120/251
That helped Trump win the primary. Then the media went into full-on attack mode, and the RNC likewise backstabbed him every time they got a chance.
I don't know why people hate him, he's a great Hearthstone player and his videos are entertaining and educational.
I need a meme economist to determine the value of this comment.
It's pretty good. The bamboozle-degree is at least 8/10. The reference was to a fairly known game, making it understandable for most people (this is good for meme-value, as it becomes easily upvoted.)
All in all, I think what you're looking at is a pretty damp comment, possibly moist (borderline dank, but that's probably pushing it) It should give around 500-1000 karma in a big thread. Possibly 1500+ in a really popular thread. Definitely worth a couple of reposts in other threads if you can, but no more than three separate threads. (They will dry up if they're posted too frequently, too fast.)
Also try mixing it up a little to freshen it up, ought to give slightly higher karma-yields.
Wow memeology has come a long way. Back when I was a boy we were Rick rolled and were happy about it.
Pshhh. Back in my day, we got goatsed and were unhappy about it.
I've still managed to this day to go without clicking on or seeing goatse and I've been in various online communities since 2000.
I have a little chuckle whenever he says something like "we're building a wall" while having lots of taunt or something.
I agree, even though I don't play the game much anymore, I still tune into his stream and lurk in chat, he's very chill.
...what?
The true mayor of Value town! TOGETHER WE CAN MAKE SHAMANSTONE GREAT AGAIN!
There's a Hearthstone streamer/ex-pro (I believe he's ex now, it's been a while) and his name is Trump.
He used to be pro, then he wasn't, now he's trying again. This year, he's been entering open tournaments and climbing legend to get into events. Currently, he's rank 16.
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Didn't vote for him, but a lot of these people claiming to be shocked at what he is doing or have said they regretted voting for him don't seem to realize he is literally just doing what he said. He ran on a platform, won, and now is carrying it out, just like any politician should.
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The bad things he promised, he's delivering. But, remember the swamp he wanted to drain? That's now an ocean because of him.
I mean, it all depends on what "Drain the Swamp" means to you (and indeed, it's intentionally vague, that's the power of the term). People like to lump together the Washington politicians, and the rich from finance, tech, and industry as just being this singular block of "the establishment", but that really isn't how it is. So if you believed that he'd sweep all of those folks out of Washington, then yes, you should be very disappointed with his choice of cabinet members. But, then I can't possibly fathom how you thought real estate billionaire Donald Trump would be an effective choice to clear the influence of the rich from Washington, so I'm not really sure what to tell you.
Instead, Trump ran on the claim that his business experience was what made him qualified to run the White House, and that career politicians in Washington were the problem. By that metric, his choices so far have been true to the message. His cabinet displays a noted lack of political experience! They are absolutely (by and large) Washington political outsiders. The last two Secretaries of State, Kerry and Clinton, are prototypical career politicians, while Tillerson is a successful businessman.
I think Trump has so far stayed quite true to the goals of his campaign. He said that career politicians run Washington, and that he was qualified because he had run a business. Thus, true to that logic, he appoints a cabinet with far more business experience than usual, and far less political experience than usual.
I think where people felt misled was with this continued assumption (as mentioned above) that all sorts of people with power are part of the same establishment, that exists as a unified block. This is a much larger discussion, and I know I will never convince some people, but that just simply isn't true. The powerful people in finance largely opposed Trump. Same with the most powerful people in tech, as well as most "Washington insiders". And yet the billionaires in industry (from Trump's own real estate, to oil and gas, etc) often supported Trump, and its from those places that he drew many surprise picks. People heard Trump attack "the establishment" over and over again, and because of their belief that it's all one and the same, they inferred that this would include people like Rex Tillerson. But even though Trump constantly changes his message, that part he was consistent on. Trump did not run on a campaign about how billionaire business owners were ruining this country. He was much more specific than that. But some people heard the outlines of his populist message, and somehow interpreted that to mean that he would cleanse Washington of all these sorts of powerful folks, which was never his promise.
(Disclaimer, strongly dislike Trump, but of all the ways to criticize Trump, I don't agree with the claim that he's betrayed his campaign message. In fact, I think that's a bit of a cop out, as he's been stayed very true to his campaign message, for better or worse.).
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Exactly, he was referring to bureaucrats. I am not sure what people were expecting...he wasn't going to appoint a bunch of Harvard professors. He was referring to people who have spent pretty much their entire lives as politicians; Kerry, Pelosi and even everyone's favorite Bernie Sanders are perfect examples.
I think this is actually big part of the problem with our current elections. The Alt-Right wanted all of his ideas. The Conservative Right just didn't want the Left to win. So they assumed Trump would just be like any other politician and not do much and they would still win. So they went along with it. Now a lot of the Right are seeing him do a lot of the crazy stuff he promised and they seem shocked.
Don't pick a side just because you hate the other side.
I'm not sure what you mean by "don't pick a side just because you hate the other side." In a two party system, if you hate one side there's really only one option left.
I'm not trying to be an argumentative ass-hole, I just don't see a viable alternative, and this is coming from someone that voted libertarian.
I'm from a country with a proportional parliamentary system. Usually 5 parties get into the parliament, nobody gets over 40% of the seats, and 2-3 parties have to agree on policy to form a government and pass laws.
This does mean that there is a lot of time and effort wasted on debates, and nothing gets done quickly. Parties also have an easy out from following up on campaign promises - they can always say that they failed because of their coalition partners. But I think it's actually a good thing.
No party gets too confident and arrogant and gets to assume that they can do things "their way". And when you compromise on the policies of 2-3 parties, they tend to get closer to what the "average" voters want. Not ideal for any voter, but also not favouring one group too much.
I'm from a country that had a referendum on whether we should adopt proportional representation. When I see comments like this I'm saddened to think of what might have been.
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Uh or you know, vote third party...
Actually, most politicians have a tendency to not fulfill campaign promises. Trump has been on the ball since day one. So far he has proven that they weren't empty promises. Whether you like him or not, people should respect that.
Trump and Sanders have a lot of similar positions. Both were against TPP, and both have criticized NAFTA. Like Trump, Sanders is against open borders, and favors a secure border. Sanders and Trump both are against the H1B program and the damage it does to American workers. Both Trump and Sanders are very pro-American worker.
If you want to go back a bit, Trump wrote about wanting single payer health care back in '99 when he was thinking about running with the reform party.
Trump's gave a rousing inauguration day speech telling workers of the United States he is with them and looking to empower them by ensuing their jobs stay here, and cutting unregulated flows of cheap labor into the country, while at the same time he stands against the capitalists who profit from moving production to places where they have more leverage over workers, undermining US workers, and then selling product in the US to their own benefit further consolidating the wealth of this country.
Others (Bernie) saying the same have been branded as communists.
Edit: Sanders quotes: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-trade/#NAFTA Bernie spoke against NAFTA, saying that this fast track agreement with Mexico “will be a disaster for our working people, for our farmers, and for the environment in general.” In 1993, saying that in his view, “NAFTA will accelerate all of these negative economic trends, and will only benefit the ruling elites of the United States, Mexico, and Canada.” Bernie wrote in an article for The Guardian that “the TPP is simply the continuation of a failed approach to trade — an approach which benefits large multinational corporations and Wall Street, but which is a disaster for working families.”
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/28/9014491/bernie-sanders-vox-conversation Open borders? No, that's a Koch brothers proposal. It would make everybody in America poorer —you're doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don't think there's any country in the world that believes in that. If you believe in a nation state or in a country called the United States or UK or Denmark or any other country, you have an obligation in my view to do everything we can to help poor people. What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country, I think we have to do everything we can to create millions of jobs.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4547673/rep-bernie-sanders-wto-local-sovereignty This amendment deals with democracy . And national sovereignty . And the right. Of the American people through their local state and nationally elected bodies . To make legislation which the American people believe. Is in their best interests for members of Congress who are co-sponsoring. This legislation . Have different political points of view. We disagree on everything. But we all agree that it is the people of the United States of America. Who should decide the important issues . And not people in the World Trade Organization. Meeting behind closed doors in Switzerland .
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/05/25/this-is-a-massive-effort-to-attract-cheap-labor-why-sen-bernie-sanders-is-skeptical-of-guest-workers/?utm_term=.80cda22b935d The bottom line is that I feel, very much, that a lot of the initiative behind these guest workers programs, a very large expansion of guest worker programs — H2B visas would go up to as many as 195,000, H1B to as many as 205,000 a year — is coming from large corporations who want cheap labor from abroad. Absolutely, there is a need for foreign labor. I recognize that in agriculture and certain areas in the high tech industry, you need foreign labor. But this is a massive effort to attract cheap labor, a great disservice to American workers.
I don't hate x,y,z group of people
I'm pro-police, pro-gun and pro-small gov.. But Im also think abortion should be legal and think religion should stay out of government. I think most people who look at each issue individually would probably end up with views considered both "left" and "right".
In the end I had two terrible choices and I chose the one that was less against my values. As a right leaning person it's crazy that nobody was able to step up to him and secure what would've been an easy campaign for moderate conservatives though
Edit: seems "pro-police" was a confusing way to word it. What I mean is that I think the far left narrative is false and most of the incidents people riot over have been completely justified on the cop's part. There are exceptions but I was taught in a college course that the police are perpetrating ethnic cleansing non-sarcastically.
Trump is president because there were too many egotistical republican politicians splitting the anti trump vote for too long. Kasich, Cruz, and Rubio all stood five feet from the finish line arguing over who got to cross it first while trump just walked right by them and finished.
The ironic thing is, the RNC could have avoided this whole thing if they were as corrupt as the DNC.
The majority of Reddit is not going to like that last sentence, but you are absolutely right. If the RNC would have undermined Trump from the very start the way the DNC did to Bernie (and other lesser talked about nominees), we probably would have a third Bush as president. The DNC had been planning for Hillary to be next in line for over a decade. The Republicans most likely didn't even consider the possibility of someone like Trump coming in and hi-jacking the party. Both the DNC and RNC came out of this election flabbergasted at how neither of them triumphed.
The DNC had been planning for Hillary to be next in line for over a decade.
Hillary had been planning on being next in line for over a decade. She stacked the deck in her favor after losing to Obama (see DWS's quick flight from DNC chair to top Clinton aide after getting caught, for example). The DNC itself was only planning for Clinton because she filled the ranks with her own sycophants.
Am a Democrat but yeah I was pretty disgusted about this part of the election just as much as anything else. A lot of foot shooting and lies!
I had the impression that DWS did not want to resign and was only persuaded because the campaign offered her that cushy yet ultimately hollow gig.
Obama told the DNC to fire her iirc.
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As someone over 50, let me say this can go two ways. If Trump is successful by the end of his term (that success is resounding approval) that will be the end of the traditional politician as we have grown to know. If he is not successful, America will have a more corrupt version of presidential campaigns then we have ever seen.
When it was said; rooting for Trump to fail is like wanting the plane we are on to crash, that's as accurate as it gets. I would like to think that you will see many more and much better choices in your future.
Many people seem to want him to fail so spectacularly, that it will make future elections a bit less broken.
The belief is; if we burn the house down, we can build a better one.
I personally don't see that happening but I've spoken to quite a few people who voted for him for that very reason
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The Republican stance on social issues is why I can't ever call myself one. I don't mind gun rights. It's in the 2nd amendment, they should be protected.
But shit gay rights, trans rights, abortion rights, gerrymandering districts, trying to suppress elderly and minority Democratic voters, environmental issues.
There is just so much shit that is more important then gun rights to me.
Holy shit I love this post.
I don't have strong feelings about guns in any way, really, but my biggest gripe with the right in the US is that too many people act like they're somehow at the same time "anti-establishment/big government", and then in the next breath denounce marriage equality or abortion, support a president assigning positions based on whoever gave him the most money, and act like the borders need to be essentially completely shut down and travelers treated with 0 respect. The country was founded on the concept of a being a new, free land, away from what those people saw at the time as being a terrible place to live. Not only that - but all of those things are insanely "big government".
As much as democrats can be bad for it, republicans tend to be 1000000x worse for the whole "whatever it takes for the party" bullshit. That's why we now have a president Trump, while the liberals ended up distraught and split over Clinton v. Sanders.
Republicans also tend to adopt the whole "me first" thing. Democrats can also be way too far with the whole "pretending to care about anything and everything else" thing too. But with Republicans it's always "well I don't believe in abortion, so no one can do it", where as Democrats tend to be more aligned with the thinking that "if someone needs an abortion, I don't see why I should be allowed to tell them no".
You'd think the second one is the Republican way of thinking, and the first one the Democratic - but nope.
Edited - liberal v democratic
Yes to your last paragraph! Grew up super conservative voting for "God's candidate" only to turn overly liberal democrat because I feel it's more pro-humanity. I'm adopted and also a rape survivor so the abortion issue really upsets me. Pro-choice here. If you want to save the children, save the ones whom are already living by increasing assistance/support to foster children and focusing on better education (both conventional schooling and sex education).
Edit: typos
One issue I always bring up when "small government" is propped up as an ideal, is the death penalty. I literally cannot think of a reason why a rational minded republican can be pro death penalty. Government power? What's more powerful than the power over life and death? Government spending? Studies have shown capital punishment is hundreds of thousands of dollars more expensive to maintain than life sentences. Government competence? You don't trust the government to run anything on its own, but you trust it to dole out death to those who deserve it? Christian ideals? What the fuck kind of Christian thinks it's ok to respond to murder with murder? Cain killed Abel, and God didn't sentence the first murderer to death. Jesus was wrongfully put to death. Christians all throughout early times were martyred by unfair, barbaric systems. Most major branches of Christianity are opposed to the death penalty. Studies also show that the death penalty isn't a deterrent for violent crime. And if you spend any time talking with victims' families you find it doesn't provide closure for most.
There's this giant fucking hypocritical issue here, and not enough politicians or news organizations bring it up. It's the perfect example of an issue that shouldn't be divided along party lines, but is because herp de derp liberals are pussies
This is actually my favorite thing I think Trump has done. He shook up the status quo and shook up the GOP. I think in the future moderates will have a better chance and the religious right won't play as big of a part.
I'm strongly anti-trump.
But I have to respect the acumen of a guy who saw an opportunity, effectively ran against both political parties, and butt-fucked them both.
Him and Sanders shook the establishment to their core. It needed to happen and they both did it. All the pro campaign analysts have no clue and it entertains me.
Right, absolutely.
Disclaimer: I'm Canadian, so not a voter.
Were I American, I'd have voted for Clinton, but only because I find Trump so absurd. I really dislike Clinton. The thing that would have made voting easier is knowing that she'd have Sanders breathing down her neck, and holding her feet to the fire.
I don't even completely agree with everything Sanders said: he's socialist even by Canadian standards. But I do feel like he was the only person in the runnings who had a clean and honest record, and unquestionable intentions.
I just vote my conscious since I have to live with myself. I tend to go Libertarian, Independent, or Green. I quit voting for the lesser evil decades ago.
He got the RNC to cheer for gay rights. Did you ever think you'd see the day?
Edit: A word.
Neither party is small government, it's just democrats use the money for social programs, while republicans use it for military. I can't believe there are people that think our military isn't big and strong enough, so I don't see why republicans ever win points with this issue
I'd say the real difference is that Republicans like military spending and Democrats like social AND military spending. Even if the party is somewhat less hawkish basically everyone in government likes military spending because it creates so many jobs or at the very least would kill a lot of specialized jobs if it were to be cut.
And while I'm against the majority of the conflicts the US has been involved in since WW2 I can still appreciate the consumer technology that we owe to military R&D. Actually one of the few things my libertarian dad and I (Bernie Bro) agree the money should spend money on is NASA because of all the cool shit that was developed during the space race.
I know when I talk to my family, it's not that they think we need MORE defense spending, but rather less social program spending.
There's a lot of talk about how poor whites voted for Trump, but most of my family is pretty well off and they are vehemently anti-liberal because they don't believe in welfare/food stamps/unemployment etc. The more I poke and try to understand the more I believe they literally view the poor (and ESPECIALLY non-white poor folks) as lesser human beings.
They have similar attitudes about immigration. Once I said "hey remember that time we forgot refugees and immigrants are human beings" and it started a HUGE fight and I got angry phone calls for a couple days about how I clearly don't care about the wellbeing of my own family :/
However, any time one of them has gotten laid off they've collected unemployment so ya know...
Appeals to emotion mean more than facts for garnering votes. Trump made it sound like refugees and illegal immigrants were flooding across the border with no control. In reality obtaining a us visa or refugee status is a long process that requires a lot of vetting and verification.
But that doesn't sell as well.
You do realise some of trump polices have allowed religion to become closer to the gov right?
I believe he was bringing up both pros and cons for Trump. This is clear as he writes 'but' before continuing.
Some? Hes surrounded by religious nutjobs.
Sessions literally said that if you dont believe in the man-in-the-sky then you are unfit for office. Devos wants to bring the schools back to "God's Kingdom" - Pence has all sorts of wacko-christian policies. Carson is a 7th day Adventist.
Sessions Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/01/12/jeff-sessions-said-secularists-are-unfit-for-government.html
Thank you! That's what I was thinking the whole time. Not only that has he allowed religion to be closer to the gov. Trump wants to involve the church by "destroying the Johnson Amendment, which prevents religious groups and churches from engaging in political activities", so it can finally have a part in politics. America will become less secular if this ever happens.
I don't get why I'm seeing all the posts on Trump ensuring that the religion has a less presence on politics...
Source: http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/317542-trump-vows-to-destroy-the-johnson-amendment
Sooooo... How is he actually doing on the small government or no religion front?
"Small government" when it comes to guns and taxing the rich
Most people think we hate minorities. For that vast majority of us that is false. People voted trump because they hated the media, career politicians, and elitism in general. I myself was almost done voting because i realized it didnt matter who you voted for because of lobbyists. I voted Obama because he promised change, but he only helped the banks and insurance companies because they bought him. Had trump ran as a democrat, my vote for him would've remained the same.
Can I ask why you feel like Trump breaks the mold from 'elitism', particularly in light of his cabinet picks?
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I wish I could actually discuss my beliefs with other students in my college without being called a Nazi. I've been threatened a couple times too. Reporting it didn't ease the worry though.
It feels like I'm the only person in my school who listens to what that one big Trump supporter in the class has to say without insulting him. I'm Hispanic.
you're the chosen one
You went to Egypt
I have several Hispanic neighbors who voted for Trump because they went through the process of becoming citizens while illegal immigrants are flooding in. They came here legally and understand they cannot be deported unlike those who are unregistered.
Yup. My mom voted for trump and she was once an immigrant and went through the long process to be an american citizen.
The chosen one
Jesús Christ¿
That doesn't answer the question presented by OP at all.
This doesn't really seem to answer the OP's question, here is the perfect chance to explain your views take it
The mentalities in bigger cities is completely different than suburban/rural areas in America. A lot of the policies the Democratic Party are completely alienating us. MTV literally aired a piece telling white people to be ashamed of ourselves regardless of our beliefs because we are white. I'm not racist etc, yet voted for trump and now we are demonized because people in urban areas honestly just don't understand the life of rural/suburban America
I was raised in rural America. Now I live in one of the largest urban hubs in the southeast. I've gotten enough dosages of political opinions and observations from both sides to understand where essentially everyone is coming from. I've concluded my own beliefs as not necessarily conservative, but moreso not-liberal.
From my hometown, there was work-ethic and reasonability. Most people were poor, but no one gave up. Everyone was constantly seeking for a better job. And everyone would willingly give their neighbor the shirt off their back. Or a place to stay if they lost their home. No one was racist (except a few of the REALLY old people that are probably dead now. And everyone disapproved of their behavior). Right before I left, the largest job-supplier in town, some factory, closed and it was awful. Several of my friends had to drop out of school and scramble for jobs to support their families. Their futures were shot. Because this company realized they could manufacture cheaper in Mexico.
Now that I live in a dense city, particularly on a college campus, I see passionate ignorance. That's actually the best way I can describe liberalism. All of these loud college students have these "let's help everyone in the world with our limitless supply of resources and money" ideas, but they have no idea on logistics. Of course it's easy to say "let's help everyone" only after you don't have to worry about helping yourself. But how would they know? They were born with silver spoons in their mouths. Not to mention that anytime I want to have a decent discussion about politics, my peers get heated IMMEDIATELY because they see I am not part of the circle jerk. It's repulsing of them and their blind beliefs.
No, I do not approve of the KKK, neo-nazis, anything racist Trump has said, etc. But I do approve of him wanting to bring labor-related jobs back to America. And I approve of him wanting to focus on improving America as opposed to helping everyone else. No, America does not have the responsibility of taking care of every other nation in the world. If we did, they would be additional states, not separate nations. It's also entertaining to watch the reactions of my peers when his name is mentioned.
I disliked Trump as a person because I saw him as a pompous clown. But I really like how he wants to pull all MFG jobs back to the USA.
There's always pros and cons to every politician. I just hope he pushes the USA in a positive direction.
Unfortunately, it's going to take a few years for us to really see the effects of his actions.
Manufacturing is never going to be the force in America that it once was.
I don't know why this is getting downvoted. It's true. Factories are using more and more automated processes because it's faster, safer, cheaper, and has less errors. All of these are good things for everyone except for the person whose job gets replaced. This is what happens with all new technologies. Do you think the farrier was happy when the automobile gained traction? Which happened incredibly fast in terms of making an industry almost completely obsolete.
Well someone has to manufacture all the machines and robots that are going to be doing all this automation, right? Why not America instead of China?
To preface this, I'm a trucker. When the executive order coming out saying to cut regulations, I don't think many people against him understand or try to understand what some deregulation could mean for people like me. The executive order saying 2 regulations must be revoked for another one to be put in place is a huge beacon of hope for me. I drove for 13 months for a company that rhymes with Zwift. Yeah, Yeah I know the reputation already. But being a company truck driver and dealing with the regulations sometimes makes you want to pull your hair out. 70% of everything you've eaten, owned, or used has probably been on a truck at one point in time. I've had shippers tell me "No idling while being loaded / unloaded" when it is 90 degrees outside. Some places even say "No idling on our property". Company Zwift trucks aren't fitted with APUs so you're either going to be sweating like 2 mice having sex in a wool sock or being colder than an eskimo in an ice bath. California is the only place I know of that idling laws were regularly regulated, but there's no fine if you want to be comfortable when you sleep in your house and crank the AC up. But there is if you're in a truck not fitted with an APU and want to idle just to stay comfortable overnight. There are several places (where I understand the reason) But where there are signs saying "No jake brake", sometimes you have to decide whether you want to ignore the sign and be less safe or risk it because you feel it's the right thing to do to be safer. Every state has different chain laws which is kinda understandable to be safe but again, it's time I don't get paid for 30-45 minutes, to try to avoid getting a ticket when my own judgment means nothing. If an accountant showed up to work and was told he needed to do something for 45 minutes just to be able to get paid for the next 7 hours, I don't think he'd be understanding. Don't get me wrong, I'm proud of what I do and my whole family has been in the trucking industry. But there are so many regulations that people that vote for lawmakers that put these regulations in place don't get. If you drive through California, you're hauling like I said 70% of the products people will own, and there's little to no parking available, few truck stops, the speed limits 55,(I don't think any truck company that accepts newbies with no experience has a governor lower than 58) there are anti-idling laws. It's miserable. The people that these deregulations will affect the most are people like me, And without truckers, where would your gas, clothes, food, basically everything come from? A slightly more comfortable life on the road is what I dream of and Trump is the first person that makes me think some of the regulations will be lifted or change. I don't think it would be possible for me to carry a gun in my cab. I have a system of tying my seatbelts to the door handles in case someone tries to open my doors and the locks fail. I've had people climb onto my cab at stoplights and hold on asking if I can open my door. I never was a fan of guns until I had to drive through certain areas. I would love to take classes and get a concealed carry just in case something does happen. I support Trump because I want a more comfortable workday and he is the first candidate I think since I've been around, that might change some of the industries like trucking. I could be wrong but time will tell.
TL;DR: Trucking has a lot of regulations and they are no bueno sometimes. And the majority of non-truckers I feel don't understand that.
Edit: Obligatory thank you for gold! After receiving death threats in pms I think it might be a good idea to take things not so literally. Yes there are state regulations and federal regulations. I've been told numerous times "Well he can't change state / local rules" Yeah I get that. I gave my reasons and well, Reddit isn't a very nice place.
Just a question for the curious...
How much of this is "Regulation" and how much of it is cost cutting or just not giving a shit from your place of employment?
I've worked with a lot of truckers here in Canada, and we have anti idle regulations, etc just like California (Not as intense in some provinces.) but our entire country is developed around national trade. We've got one to two main roads that cross the entirety of the country and its pretty much required that all long haul trucks need to have a generator, safety supplies, working heat and AC, etc. This is regulatory through the Ministry of Labour.
Regulation works both ways. You need one to balance the other, if that makes sense. Uneven representation of regulation for a state or country can make life for any worker absolutely hell, especially if the employer has no regulation to force them to do certain things; like supply APUs for trucks so their workers don't freeze to death in the winter (Again, Northern Canada.)
Just wondering if it ever crossed your mind that more regulation needs to happen, not less? More on the employer so it takes the strain off the employee while the individual states can still have their regulations.
Edit: People are sending this guy death threats? Seriously? This is why you guys can't have nice things and everyone hates everyone else.
Regulation could also force companies to pay OP for his 45m prep time.
Regarding that point....I'm a white collar worker with a salary. We often have to work extra hours for no extra pay and this is totally legal and expected.
Only if you make more than $47.48K anything less than that and they have to pay you time and a half for any hours worked over 40.
That's a good point. OP mentioned accountants though and I guess I was thinking that salary range of work.
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... but as u/OriJuice points out the government could put in place regulations that make OP's employer put in APU's or other implementations for OP's safety and comfort.
And when trucks go automated, and it'll happen sooner than we think, what then for this guy? The next candidate says we'll bring back trucking jobs like we're going to somehow bring back coal?
Most of the things he listed are problems exacerbated by the free market. Problems that unions could solve, or government regulation as a back up.
It's like he had gone overboard, and he's reaching for the shark instead of the life raft.
I don't know where you're from or what types of sites you're delivering to, but anywhere I've seen "no idling" or "no engine brakes" laws, it's because the people who lived in those areas wanted them to be enacted.
I'm not saying there aren't cases of excessive regulation out there - I worked for a start-up delivery service for awhile that involved using my personal car and making lots of brief stops in areas where the parking was extremely over-regulated.
But local communities do, and should, have the right to limit noise, emissions, etc that they consider to be excessive - within reason, of course.
I feel like a lot of those regulations are due to lack of sufficient exhaust after-treatment systems on trucks, which is something that has seen some pretty great advancement recently. So it's kind of in the state of being reasonable to eliminate those regulations as soon as manufacturers and equipment owners bring the stuff up to the current state of the art so we aren't blasting shit tons of VOCs and other nasty crap into the air.
Just to clarify--it seems like you're talking about relaxing EPA guidelines/laws that regulate gas consumption. If that's one of your main concerns regarding deregulation, I think you're right, Trump is your guy (or many other GOP candidates, for that matter). Personally, while I can appreciate your point of view and why that may be important/beneficial to you, I can also see value in the counter-argument. For example, I would say that having clean air for me, my family, and the rest of my community to breathe is more important than your comfort at night. Safety is another thing completely--if it's safer for you to jake brake, then by all means, jake brake. We should not be jeopardizing people's immediate safety to lessen fuel emissions.
In any event, thanks for what you do. You provide a great service and it's pretty cool that your family has such a strong history of trucking. It has definitely a dream of mine to hit the open road.
Well thank you.
So, I'll first say that, as a liberal-ass democrat, this is the kind of argument I love seeing from the other side, because it's actually based in economic reality. There's a vocal minority of people on both sides who really do vote with their hearts, not their brains, and it's a breath of fresh air to see "the government does X wrong, candidate Y wants to change how the government handles X, I'm voting for Y".
Although this is Reddit, so obviously I'm really here to argue with you for no reason.
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It does seem like your main problem is with Californian laws, not federal ones, although I could have misunderstood. Trump can't repeal Californian laws, although new Federal regulations could (in some circumstances) make Californian laws illegal. "States are not allowed to regulate X" is still itself a regulation.
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It looks - to me, someone who has gotten most of his knowledge about the trucking industry from this post within the last 5 minutes - that your problem is less with the regulations themselves and more than they just don't work in the favor of truckers. If I were a legislator, I could see better regulations, not less of them, addressing a lot of your problems - maybe something to mandate civil engineers include a certain amount of truck parking or pit stops in any new highway designs, or some system that allows truckers to exceed the speed limit in some circumstances. With the latter, for example, "removing" the regulation would just, you know, get rid of the speed limit, which would probably be bad times. Paradoxically, you'd need to add regulations - either to raise the speed limit generally or add an exception for haulage vehicles - to give people greater freedom.
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I will say, though, that as someone who is pretty damn anti-gun, it seems completely ridiculous that you can't be armed while on the road. You're carrying valuable cargo and your behavior is monitored by your employer- giving you a right to carry seems like a no-brainer.
Thank you grass_type, as a conservative-ass republican its also refreshing to see a liberal who can talk about specific issues as well. More often than not, I tend to find significant areas of agreement when we can break them down into discussable topics instead of foregone conclusions.
The vast majority of democrats and republicans agree on tons of stuff, they just have very little reason to talk about those points of agreement with each other, and a powerful drive to argue about the dozen or so issues that we've collectively decided are simultaneously more important than anything else and totally unresolvable. Most of these issues have fairly little to do with one another.
It also doesn't help that - due to a large number of factors - both sides have come to identify the other side with their absolute worst members. Democrats think Republicans are all white supremacists. Republicans think- well, I won't tell you what you think, but I can only imagine you've heard some pretty crappy generalizations about us. Plus, representative democracy is a pretty just system, but it's also slow, counterintuitive, and involves a lot of very selfish people acting selfishly even when everything is fine. It's easy to blame that on the other side, but it's just a nonpartisan fact of our political environment.
Most people with the intellectual capacity to register to vote, and then actually file a ballot, are more or less reasonable people. There's a lot of economic incentives to convince us that's not the case.
The best weapon against political polarization is self-scrutiny, and generally viewing "your side" with skepticism. I like to think I've gotten pretty good at distinguishing between, say, a genuine article in the NYTimes about a problem with the presidential administration and, alternatively, a masturbatory op-ed about how Trump is kind of rude sometimes. These articles do not distinguish themselves as such, and that's a real big problem.
I also may make it sound to be worse than it is. Have I ever been ticketed or given a warning for using jake brakes near a residential area? No. I've heard stories and we all know how reliable some people can be hue. The chaining laws aren't that big of a deal. I get their point and understand it perfectly well. But a bunch of little things add up sometimes. Is it a horrible industry destroyed by regulations? No. I would like to see some things changed, whether they do or do not is not up to me, but perhaps I shed some light on the downsides of a certain industry because of certain regulations.
I mean, I totally agree with the basic reasoning behind your complaints: California is a fairly over-regulated state (aka, literally all consumer goods cause cancer in CA) and those regulations tend to be passed in the interests of consumers who live in California, without respect to the huge supply chain that actually gets everything into stores for Californians to buy.
My only point is that fixing this at the federal level requires passing more regulation to force California to address these issues, not repealing regulation, which wouldn't affect most or all of the problems you outlined above.
My big problem with Trump's regulation stance is that there is very little you can actually accomplish by repealing regulations and not providing a replacement. In the small number of cases where the government is requiring something objectively stupid, then it works, but if the government is simply mandating something in a partially incorrect way, or, even moreso, not doing something that you want it to do, you need to, at some point, pass regulation to make it act the way you want.
Don't get me wrong, even as a big-government Democrat, I'll admit there's a lot of pretty bad legislation on the books, which was either passed under economic circumstances that don't apply anymore or in a nakedly corrupt or biased way - but most of those laws aren't regulations; they're usually appropriations bills for, say, highways that don't have adequate truck stops. But you can't make the highways have truck stops by repealing that bill (I mean, technically, repealing that bill does absolutely nothing, because the highway is already built), you need to write a NEW bill that either funds a project to add truck stops to preexisting highways or requires new highways to include them. Only the latter is an actual "regulation".
This doesn't jibe well with Trump's policy, because he's not trying to replace regulatory laws, he's actively trying to reduce the number of them that exist. In all likelihood, this will lead to a reduction in conditions for people in the trucking industry (or, alternatively, no noticeable change, since all the infrastructure in place, and a Grand Infrastructure Spending Bill - which Trump hinted he might try to pass - has yet to take shape).
I'm a huge public policy wonk man. Your problem is with the states' regulations (at least with what you've outlined in your post).
Not a lot the prez can do about what states want to regulate.
that might change some of the industries like trucking.
Volvo and other car companies are hauling ass to get rid of truckers via automated trucks.
Genuine question: What will you do then?
I'll be doing it for the next 5-10 years easily.
Most of what you cited are local or state ordinances (or simply private property policies) that are impacted by said EO though. The EO does absolutely nothing for you.
Not to mention that executive order is null and void on its face when challenged, as well as being unenforceable, since it cites a law for justification that doesn't actually exist.
While I see your concern, that's not something Trump can fix. The whole point of a Federalist system of government is that states have lots of power, and if California wants to have anti-idling laws there's nothing Trump or any federal government entity can do about it.
The problem is that executive order is extremely vague. The term regulation is such a broad term, there's no way in a million years Trump was thinking of you when he wrote that executive order. Trump wants to deregulate banks which is exactly what left us with the recession in 2008. He wants to cut taxes and put us in more debt than we already are. He wants to let big corporations do more and with less consequences. That's what deregulation is about, and that's why it can be dangerous, especially when put into a vague and unclear order such as the one he signed.
At the end of the day, there may or may not be good reasons for California's laws. But California isn't going to change those laws anytime soon because there's not a big enough group lobbying against them. If you don't want to be fined, it's gonna take lots of lobbying in Sacramento, not in DC, and voting for Trump didn't do anything to help truckers.
I'm gonna have to agree with you. I can't help but think his use of the term deregulation was only meant for more "conventional" issues. Things like business deregulation or environmental deregulation. Unless, there's a quote specifying his intent to deregulate trucking oversight, I feel like OP just heard what he wanted to hear.
It's really generic, and that's why a moderate like myself is so hesitant to support him on an issue. I'm all for getting rid of old/outdated regulations that gives our companies an extra enemy to fight when trying to do business.
But keep in mind, many regulations are there for the public's benefit. For me the ecological and large banking regulations are the one's I would deem most vital. No matter the reward we cannot trash our environment, nor can we allow another 2008 crash.
That's why I really don't like Trump, he panders to every person whilst taking every position possible. So even when he does something I'm still not sure if I'm going to be with or against him.
Sadly I bet most of these regulations will be for wallstreet. Which isn't necessarily bad, but greed for the sake of itself doesn't always make the best longterm investments.
I do agree with him on this though, we need to tear down a lot of existing regulation, and build it back up. There's too many contradicting laws, guidelines, etc. that hold businesses back. And I'd say there are wayyy too many regulations overall now. We should cut back 50-75%, then remake the ones we need to be a lot clearer, and give businesses equal advantage. Right now only huge massive companies can afford to meet every regulation standard, and even then it's just making the product take longer to produce, increasing both consumer and the businesses costs, and most importantly is holding back a lot of companies because any idea they have it held back with red tape and hundreds of hours worth of product laws.
And without truckers, where would your gas, clothes, food, basically everything come from?
Other truckers. The ones who are willing to work for half as much as you, don't have the right qualifications, are happy to take amphetamines and drive through the night, don't speak English ... whatever. The regulations are there to protect you and your industry from the people who will drive it into the ground for a quick buck.
Or robots in ten, maybe twenty, years.
Five.
Five might see some adoption, but full on replacement in five is ridiculous.
This is something that I and I'm sure many others didn't even know as an issue.
As someone who was the kind of person who immediately branded every Trump supporter a bigot - I understand your vote. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Well thank you very much! I'm glad I can share my experience and reasons.
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Have you heard a jake brake? It's banned in places where people are trying to live and a couple dozen trucks blowing through in the middle of the night is roughly equivalent to a your neighbors throwing a loud party every single night.
It honestly sounds like you have more of an issue with state regulations than federal regulations. Even if Trump deregulated your industry, all that would likely translate to is worse hours. It would also give your employers more ways to avoid paying you. All the while, states will continue to keep their own rules and biases that make your life difficult.
I love how the top response to every comment is a rebuttal arguing why that reason doesn't justify supporting him.
EDIT: Empathy begets Empathy. Dismissal begets Dismissal.
Probably why more Trump supporters aren't making comments. Instadownvotes and rebuttals on personal opinio
DINGDINGDING......I could give a shit about the fake internet points but at the end of the day, I don't want thousands of people telling me about how bad of a person they think I am because of one fucking decision. The liberal circle jerk of reddit is getting out of hand, and if I wasn't as addicted to it as facebook I would quit coming to it. The day of conversations on reddit is dead, as every comment that doesn't slide right in with the left is shot down to oblivion, shamed, and shunned. It's turned into a very one sided shit show......like CNN.
Not everybody voted for Trump because of his immigration policies.
His trade and job policies won him the election.
Also a lot of people stilll can't understand that illegal immigration and legal immigration aren't the same thing.
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I'm not a trump supporter, nor am I against globalism, but your comment is exactly why Clinton lost the election. There is a sizable amount of the American population that has experienced something like this and the lefts dismissal of them is why they won't win elections in the near future. My family had a somewhat similar experience, my dads own business was failing because of Nafta (even though I think its not a bad deal) and he went from being a business owner to a school janitor. I hated seeing the anguish in his face, but he kept a strong work ethic and moved on up in the school ranks and retired there a few years ago. So while I don't agree with you politically, I understand where your coming from and don't blame you one bit for voting the way you voted. No family should have to experience that.
That i can support Trump but also disagree with some of his policies.
This is interesting to me. I support some of his policies. We do need to enforce the laws we have whether they are immigration or abortion or drugs, or whatever. We do need to have a plan for how we are going to deal with job losses, although I would argue we have and will continue to use lose more jobs to technology than cheap labor overseas. I liked the idea of someone not tainted by the political establishment shaking things up.
But I couldn't get passed the man himself.
I came here interested to read some genuine trump supporters' perspectives, but, instead, it's just standard r/politics opinions.
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they're still baffled as to why they lost as they scream at possible converts or neutral parties about how racist and dumb they are.
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How can you be a Bernie supporter and vote for Trump? Do you believe anything Bernie supports or did you just vote for him because he's an outsider?
renewable energy
I'm curious as to what you have to say about this. Trump is a climate change denier, which I think is possibly the scariest part of his presidency. If he does anything else wrong then we can repeal it eventually, but global warming won't wait for us to get our act together.
EDIT: Also, you said you had a gay uncle. What do you think about Trump's decision to take Mike Pence, who advocates electroshock therapy for gays, as his vice president?
While I do not agree with your opinion, thank you. Thank you for having the balls to type it out when you knew you'd be criticized. Many of use came here to see Trump supporters' views, and you're one of the few that have given us that, with sources as to why you hold those views. You have a great day as well, dude. Good luck in the future.
Thank you for this reply. The worst thing we can do is demonize each other.
I hope you have a wonderful week yourself.
The worst thing we can do is demonize each other.
This is the problem, both sides have people who do demonize one another. While I disagree with your political stance, I wholeheartedly agree with your moral one on view here.
How would you respond to critics of the immigration ban that cite that the vast majority of domestic terrorist attacks have been committed by natural born or naturalized u.s. citizens? And just another question, feel free to not answer, but how does it make you feel knowing there was no consultation with homeland security or immigration before it was signed into effect? In all honesty, this is the biggest issue I have with president trump (so far) in that he hasn't really consulted with anyone outside of his own cabinet, who are also basically all newcomers, on policy that affects the whole united states. I just want to get a sense for how trump supporters respond from this angle.
Thanks for the honest response. I think you should consider that the bible also has horrible and archaic rules about stoning women, killing children, murdering dissenters etc. So it is not really fair to cherry pick the worst parts of a religious text. Also you seem to make the case that conservatives are called names for sharing their beliefs but do you not agree that name calling and demonizing the other side is a huge problem for liberals and conservatives alike?
The only problem here is that Milo dates black men. In fact, he talks about it constantly. How he loves black dick. It's kind of in-your-face how much he does it.
I'm not arguing that Milo is a white supremacist, but I've never understood this as a response to that argument. You don't have to like or respect people to sleep with them. There are plenty of people who hate women and treat them like shit but still sleep with them.
Thank you for being one of the few actual Trump supporters who actually posted their honest opinion in this thread!
Question for you, how do you square your previous support with Sanders and his ideologies for your current support with Trump and his? I myself was a Sanders supporter during the primary, and while I very much disliked HRC, I voted for her because I believed that her views and that of the Dems lined up more closely (though not nearly perfectly) with what Sanders was saying than what Trump and the GOP were saying.
Would you say that you no longer support Sanders, or rather, was your vote for Trump a vote to get rid of a political party leadership that would attempt to undermine the political process of the primaries?
Thanks for the reply.
A lot of the appeal of Bernie was as an outsider who was not part of a political machine the way Clinton is. Obama was a textbook case of this, but he was maneuvered throughout his tenure.
A lot of what I supported with Bernie is applicable under Trump as well. Education reform and better economics for America's youth.
The critical difference is how these can be achieved. Whereas Bernie wanted to expand the welfare state to accomplish this, Trump wants to decrease it by eliminating sanctuaries, corrupt teachers unions, etc. The funding is there, it's just being mismanaged.
As I learned and expanded my viewpoint to something less selfish, my opinions divulged quite greatly to many things I would now disagree on. A lot of this changed when I got out of college, got a good paying job, met my fiancé, etc.
I don't think we'll be seeing significant education reform under DeVos.
There might be reform but probably not in a great direction.
French guy here, the stuff happening in Paris and its suburbs right now has nothing to do with religion. They're protests of recent police brutality events that went out of control. People out in the streets are riled up because 4 policemen in Aulnay-Sur-Bois have brutally injured a young man with their night sticks, forcing the young man into the hospital for 2 months, and the police have passed it off as an "accident". Those protests did turn slightly violent but this is a symptom of the high tensions between the poorer people in the suburbs and the police.
Secondly the no-go zone thing is bullcrap, I've only heard it on foreign media. Those zones are actually delimiting places where further economic growth is needed. They have nothing to do with terrorism. Hell, Paris's mayor Anne Hidalgo has attempted to sue Fox News after they ran their original story about the no-go zones. Plus my neighbourhood is technically considered a no-go zone, and it's literally one of the most gentrified places in Paris.
PS: Here are the sources i've used but they're from French newspapers:
Thanks for your post, but I need to correct you on something. The Alien and Sedition Acts are not part of the Constitution. They are four laws that were signed by John Adams. Two of them were temporary and never renewed. The Alien Enemies Act, which is still on the books today, was also invoked to inter Japanese Americans during World War II.
Thanks for the reply.
You are correct. This is what I meant:
Although A&E are applicable in similar ways.
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good post, however i totally disagree that t_D is a good tolerant subreddit. They downvote and remove anything that puts Trump in bad light, even if the comment itself is constructive. They make up stories to push their agenda forward and ban anyone who calls them out on it. They call everyone who disagrees with them cucks, libtards and sjws and many t_D posters are straight up blatantly racist, not only against brown people, but black community and even jews. that's not what i understand when i hear the word "tolerance". I wanted to see other sides opinions, but it's pretty much impossible to take this subreddit seriously because it feels like an echo chamber of immature children.
Absolutely. I found one thread there that asked blacks to thank whites for fighting for their freedom and losing mass casualties during the Civil War. Hypocrisy aside, all I said was "give yourself a pat on the back" and was banned lol
There's no discrimination, no carousel of who can be a bigger victim like there is elsewhere
The entire subreddit is engaging in the same kind of victim complex you are complaining about.
You'll notice when researching or listening to these people, a common theme is that they are "betrayers", as if because of their status they are required to tow party line. They're called horrible, awful things by people who claim to champion them- because they don't think the same way.
Sort of like how Trump supporters and the_donald call anyone who doesn't align to their worldview "cucks," "libtards," "betas," etc?
Like I get what you are saying, and while I don't support Trump I agree with a lot of your criticisms of various elements of the left including the media. But isn't there a certain amount of hypocrisy in decrying "bias" and identity politics when the right is engaged in the exact same behavior? Anything that the_donald decides they don't agree with is instantly labeled "fake news," even if it is demonstrably not. Anyone not agreeing with the hivemind is instantly banned. I honestly do not see what the difference is between that and your accusation that, for example, Twitter is censoring Milo because his content is dangerous to the corporate narrative or something.
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I have been liberal all my life
While I appreciate your posting I cannot see how someone who was "liberal all their life" turn to The_Donald. Trump I can understand but not The_Donald. I'm having a hard time believing that.
One thing is to vote for trump with hope for change from the establishment. Another is to accept what Trump has been doing since November 8th especially in office. It's astounding how much he has veered from his campaign promises of "draining the swamp" and not playing with Wall Street when that is exactly what he is doing. He hasn't even separated himself and family working in the White House from their businesses. He hasn't put aside the campaign rhetoric and attempt to lead us all. As matter of fact, his New Year's Eve tweet was divisive. I'm not sure how someone who was going to vote for Sanders eight months ago would accept what's been happening over the past month.
Honestly, I think Donald J Trump has mental illness. I don't mean that as derogatory but an actual serious assertion.
While I disagree with a lot of stuff here, I appreciate the effort you put into this response. However, I will point out that you saying:
The left doesn't think of people as individuals, they see them as collectives. If you're black, you should conform to X. If you're gay, you should conform to Y. Anyone outside these norms is ostracized. That's not tolerance.
is an example of you describing people as the collective and not the individual. I would probably be considered "left" to you but I and the majority of my like-minded friends do not fit your description. Perhaps that is just how the left is collectively described to you by your preferred media outlets.
Only thing for me is that I don't think that job losses have a political solution. Consumer demand is more powerful, but that can't touch the losses due to technology
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As a French I'm not informed enough to discuss most of the things in your post but I must shed some lights on your inaccuracies. Your article is about LePen being charged for anti-semitic. I don't see the link with Muslims. Also you link an article about the recent events in Aulnay which is clearly an opinion piece and not journalism. The guy who was raped is a christian. Again, I see not link with Muslims. So yeah, it's a popular area and people are going batshit crazy when there's no penalty for the cops who did this awful act. The article also complains about the 'punishment' that now cops will have to wear cameras. Whereas every study on the subject concludes that these cameras eases tension on both sides, little fuckers don't want to be on tape insulting a cop, and the cop doesn't want to be on tape being an ass if it leads to complaints.
Fox News has a big history of inventing facts about France. Last year they said no less than 700 areas are ruled by Muslims under Sharia law and their 'expert' said it reminded him of Afghanistan. They kinda lost any credibility they had here. But now it gets worse because the POTUS is using it as source among those 'terrorist attacks we don't hear about because big bad media'
But I think he wants to move us in the right direction, where Clinton did not care about any of us. Trump's dedication to talking to a class of people that were largely forgotten is proof enough of that.
You should take a long hard look at your own words and ask yourself if 1) you actually have any proof of him caring for the welfare of the country beyond his own words and 2) any proof that, even if he cares, the decisions he is taking will have a positive impact.
Ignoring with the fact that you're going against the WH's own narrative that the ban is not a muslim ban, surely you are aware that the EO has had a negative impact on thousands of immigrants that actively contribute to your country. Sure, you may think that lives saved are worth more than the inconvenience experienced by them, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find any piece of actual hard evidence quantifying that assertion.
Something we can quantify, however, is the budget for the wall compared to using that money for pretty much anything else. Even if "bad hombres" come and kill Americans every so often, that same amount of money could save far more lives if it were invested in improving your health system. Have you ran any analysis on lives saved by "bad hombres" denied entry versus deaths prevented from heart issues via improved screening and prevention campaigns? You haven't and probably can't. Neither can I, but you should expect the government to and prove that their plan of action is actually putting money to good use and not just a really expensive show of power.
I don't understand why anyone would call themselves a "Trump supporter" at this point. The campaign is over. What you should be supporting now is an efficient and effective government that holds itself accountable to its people and so far your prez has shown very little in the way of doing that.
That most people who voted for Trump voted for him because of what he wants to do with the country. The left seems to think that people who voted for him just really wanted a president who would be racist, sexist, homophobic, etc., and characterize all Trump supporters as such. While these people do exist, they are in the minority of Trump supporters. Most of us just want a president who will do what we want to be done in America. I would be much happier with any other Republican, but Trump in my mind was better for the country than Hillary, which is the only reason I voted for him.
Say what you will about Trump supporters, but at least they voted for a candidate who delivered on his promises.
People who voted Trump know perfectly well that he was a deeply flawed candidate. Nobody voted for him thinking he was some clean-cut Christian family man with steady-as-she-goes policies and viewpoints. Trump himself pretty much embraced being different and being kind of a dick.
So all those protesters and stuff pushing the "Trump's a nutter! Trump's a dick!" line.....you aren't telling his supporters what they don't already know. You need a different strategy than that.
EDIT: Since my inbox has blown up, I should clarify that I am Australian, so
a) I have no dog in this fight: whoever is US President has no direct effect on me.
b) Many Australians think Trump is off the scale politically, but have a sort of sneaking regard for his "I don't give a fuck" attitude.
c) Maybe, since I'm not so emotionally invested in the outcome, I can step back and see things more calmly and rationally. Of course I 'get' why people think Trump is a dick and a nutter. But I can also 'get' why people are attracted to him.
He rejected TPP which was a controversial trade deal that was being signed behind closed doors. Created a 5 year lobbying ban for people working certain positions in government. Shook up the political establishment "threw a wrench in the machine."
And I was just sick of the media drowning us with their political ideologies. Fox News and CNN are the most biased news organizations ever. Usually Fox is the worst but CNN took the cake this past year and it is justice seeing Sean Spicer put them and all the other cronies in their place. Journalism has been an unbelievable nightmare and it needs to be addressed.
I don't think it is salvageable. It's time to accept the big 24/7 news networks for what they are: corporately owned profit driven businesses reliant on ratings. We have only ourselves to blame though. You can't fault them for wanting to stay in business after watching the slow death of printed media. They're no more credible than the history channel at this point.
I think the biggest problem is the 24 hour news cycle. When the news was reliable, they had to fill 1 hour per day of tv airtime (maybe 2). Now, the owners of the news channels demand "news" programming 24/7/365. The results, reporting on things that aren't news (waterskiing squirrels comes to mind) and putting way too much analysis on the actual news they do report (any analysis is too much, they should just be reporting facts. Opinion pages/columns come to mind as well). It's a shame, because now more than ever, people need to be well-informed and educated, but they have to contend with a deluge of non-information and opinion.
I think the biggest difference is that we have differing beliefs on the role of government. As a conservative, I believe the federal government should just be responsible for defense (against foreign and domestic enemies through military and intelligence), protecting the constitutional rights of Americans, maintaining fair interstate trade, and national infrastructure. Possibly some other things I failed to mention, but for the most part everything else should be left to the states.
The way I see it, democrats have been more egregiously violating what I believe to be the role of the federal government, and Trumps policies are more in line with what I want. I'm not a big fan of the guy, I voted in the primaries for the first time ever to try and nominate someone else, but when it came down to Trump and Clinton, I felt that Trump was the lesser of two evils.
If you really take a look at his views sometimes like at ontheissues.org, he's modertate-conservative.
To me, I see him as a key to reviving the moderate to progressive wing of the Republican Party, a part of the GOP that's been forgotten for some time.
Thank you. That makes sense
His platform aligned with Bill Clinton's more than Hillary's did.
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I am a strong Trump supporter as you can probably tell.
However I'm not religious, never been a republican, hell I'm not even American. I believe in climate change, and have a huge respect for the sciences. I have also been left / green my entire life up until this election.
I vote Trump simply because I believe he is genuine. I believe he really wants to help America and that he id of good character.. I don't believe a single word that Hillary says, and I think she is a nasty women.
I voted for Trump because I've lived through Republican and Democratic administrations, and I don't think that either side effectively got anything done and fufilled their promises. Time and time again, these experienced politicians have proved that they really don't have what it takes to make change happen.
Meanwhile, I've seen our culture become more violent, more hateful, more desperate, and more involved in identity politics all the time. Hell, I can't even mention Trump's name without someone around me frothing at the mouth and calling me racist and homophobic and xenophobic. And the liberal side is constantly bombarded with "libtard" and stupid and falsely tolerant, and the list goes on. I'm tired of a country where it's neighbor against neighbor.
So here comes a guy rhat undestand business, the economy, taxes and regulations, has been in the public eye for years, and has done business all over the world, thus interacting with people globally, and he's talking to us as Americans. Not as black or white or Latino or gay or straight or bi or upper class or lower class. Just, Americans. Neighbors. Other people. That resonates with me. What other reason does he have to go into politics besides to fix the problems he sees? He's a freaking 70 year old billionaire. He has all the money and power he could want, and he chooses to make a difference. I think that's admirable.
I think too that our media blows things out of proportion. There are outlyers in every group, but I'm pretty sure most Trump supporters don't hate Hispanics, they hate illegal immigrant. I'm all for people coming here, if they do so legally! I doubt most us of hate Muslims, we hate the radicalism that kills people across the world everyday. It's senseless, and it needs to stop. We don't hate gay people - I'm a Christian, but I mourned with the nation over the Orlando shooting. So did the people of the_donald. So did our president. And I don't understand why he's a "woman hater". His campaign was run by a woman. His daughter is his right hand man. He has employed women in his business in high ranks for years.
Maybe it's just because my father was a small business owner, so the business owner mindset appeals to me, but this finally seems like a guy that isn't a Washington scumbag, finally trying to make some changes that benefit the people of America, rather that the other shady politicians they rub shoulders with.
Just my $0.02. I'm open for a civil discussion.
Wall of text, sorry ahead of time.
I really want to have a civil discussion with a Trump supporter for once, so here goes. And first off, some of your points have started to open my eyes to the situation. I want to support our president because yes, he's our president, but it's hard right now.
You said how most supporters hate illegals, not Mexicans, and radicals, not Muslims. I totally get that and it makes sense. But how, from a Trump supporter's point of view, do you feel about his executive actions? Would the travel ban have even helped since it didn't include the countries that do most acts of terrorism in the country? How do you justify the pipelines from a conservative point of view?
The biggest thing about him for me, and I think a lot of left-leaning people, is his past rhetoric. His comments about women made me so uncomfortable. He does so many things that he has criticized Obama for in the past (signing executive orders and even stupid things like golfing too much). And then so many of his supporters I see on Reddit or in my hometown blame problems on the groups of people they are associated with (Muslims for terrorism, Mexicans for illegals, etc.).
I just want to feel like my friends and family are safe here. I don't want my sister to spend more for her medications because PP gets defunded. I don't want my kids learning religion in school under DeVos, I want them learning religion in church and science in school. And I want my LGBT friends to know their rights won't get taken away sometime in the next 4 years. Many people have many fears and I want to start that discussion with Trump supporters who will actually talk about them.
Lots of text below so I understand if you don't wanna read, but I'd also love to have a civil discussion as it is rare these days.
I'm not a huge Trump supporter, but I do lean right and I did vote for him.
To touch on your first point about the executive actions, I typically don't like the president signing a lot of executive orders because I'm more of a small government, less power to the executive branch kind of guy, but I'm not getting upset about it just yet because president usually take increased executive action in the beginning of their terms. If it doesn't slow down though I will start to worry.
While I don't necessary support a travel ban, I support a crack down on immigration and a increased screening process on people coming into the country as I believe it will lead to increase liberties to people already in the US.
As for his past rhetoric, his "grabbing the woman by the pussy" remark was disgusting. No question about that. But I do kind of understand when he claimed it was "locker room talk." I remember being in highschool joking about stuff in the locker room and I'd be lying if I said I never dared someone to grab a girls ass or something like that. Nothing ever came from it, and I never wanted anything to, it was just me being an idiot when I thought there would be no repercussions. Obviously, Trump should have more maturity than I did in highschool and should not have made the comment at all. Now before I go on to the next point, I want to clarify, I don't condone what he said at all, and if he did actually do that, it's disgusting and unacceptable. No excuses.
Lastly, to touch on your last point. I do not know as much about the whole Planned Parenthood situation as I should, so I don't feel comfortable commenting on that as I could come across as ignorant. That being said, I usually support as little federal funding as possible. I don't want kids being forced to learn religion in school either. That is what church is for. As for the LBGT rights, I am a Christian, so I don't believe that it is "right" per say, but I 100% support LBGT rights. Government should not be a "moral police" forcing people to conform to the beliefs of its current agenda. That being said, Trump has came out and said that he doesn't plan on taking away their rights, and I would be hard pressed to think that he would think it would be a good idea/even be able to do it if he wanted. Imagine the uproar around the country.
I hope I made sense, if not just point out what doesn't make sense. I haven't slept in a while and it's entirely possible I'm not making much sense.
Thanks for posting this. I realize that you will probably get some hate for it, but it is exactly on topic, and keeps the floor open for discussion and debate instead of angry spam and schoolyard name-calling.
French here.
I would've voted for him without any second thought.
People here don't understand anything, because our media are just copying the twitter feed from yours and don't even give us any useful fact. I challenge you to find one person that's not simply blindly spilling out the media's views regarding who he is/his program/his beliefs.
Why is he the best president the US could have in my opinion ? That's easy.
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He fucking does what he said he would do. Do you know why people are shocked ? Because no "politician" has ever done that... A campaign should be won on ideas and trust, not fucking betrayals.
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He helps everyone realize how stupid and biased the media are. Just looking at Worldnews for the past month, people are getting more and more tired of the agenda news and calling them out on this.
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Relationship with Russia. Hello people from the other side of the Ocean ! Know what ? Political/Economic/Military conflict with Russia is dumb ! We don't need your country to impose sanctions using us as pressure points when... well... we don't have any problem with them ourselves. (can't talk for everyone but I've never met someone in Europe that fears Russia)
No matter what happens, I hope he will cause a permanent change in the political scene, we have elections coming up ourselves and we have been having the "lying/corrupt/betrayals/useless" guys for too long now. Everyone knows it's a fucking joke, no one actually will do anything they promise. They are all more or less corrupt/shady (Yes. All.), and I'd love to have one person that would act like him here... because he actually ACTS.
If you have questions, ask away.
Bill Burr put it best. We esssentially had a choice between two serial killers. One is very open about his actions, the other hides the bodies under their house and pretends they're not doing anything wrong.
At least we know what the fuck he's doing. And it's a huge shift from the norm.
If he sucks we pick a new guy in 4 years. Everyone needs to chill out.
Edit: I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that arguing against someone's point of view with snark and insults is a great way to shut off the part of their brain that's actually open to new ideas and shit.
This is why r/the_donald and r/EnoughTrumpSpam are literally two sides of the same fucking coin. They're only purpose is to piss the other side off and they're both an embarrassment to this website IMO.
This is interesting because it's the explanation I hear the most often. At its core, though, this reasoning assumes they are equal in everything except their honesty, which seems bananas to me when you look at their qualifications to hold the office.
I just wish people wouldn't judge me for it. I'm a college aged kid and if I ever talk about agreeing with anything Trump says around my friends, I feel like I'm going to be conveniently left out of the next get-together. I've had to stay closeted this whole time, and it's just making it more of an echo chamber for them.
I don't think illegal immigration should be allowed or encouraged. I think that as long as people earned their money legally, they should have a right to keep it (obviously still pay somewhat higher tax rates, but nothing ridiculous).
I also really couldn't stand Clinton. She embodied everything that I hate in a politician. I didn't really like Trump at first, but I slowly started to warm up to him. I was indifferent about Clinton at first, but through the primaries, I just started to absolutely loathe her.
Trump's not my ideal candidate. I don't agree with him on everything. I would have 100% voted for him though, and I still would today.
Most voters pick what they think is the better of two evils, many Trump supporters are no different.
-Globalization vs nationalism. He at least addresses the existence of foreign and domestic issues instead of claiming some moral high ground from his upperclass life. When people say something like "the elites have betrayed us", they're saying the elites either don't understand, care about, or deny the existence of lower to middle class problems. While Trump is not and has not been graceful in addressing these issues, he at least is.
-Media. It's hard to see when you agree with it, but there really is an unacknowledged bias in media. Right wing has been mocked and simplified on television for a couple decades now. Colbert, Jon Oliver, The Daily Show, SNL; all exaggerate the political right and forgive the political left. It's resulted in an arrogant left and angry right. There's also the media spin. If you took the time to read where the journalists got their clips or "quotes" from, it's shady the spin they put on it. Too quickly they wanted to label Trump as the __ist, or ___phobe.
-Gender. Men are increasingly vilified. Hillary represented a continuation of that political force. She practically used "vote for me because I'm a woman" as a reason to be elected, which signals weakness in actual merit and/or implicit sexism at worse. Modern feminists were behind Hillary, and third wave is more man bashing instead of actual progression. (Calling ALL men rapists, "mansplaining", continuation of half-truths such as gender pay gap).
-The role of government. Republicans just don't believe a strong federal government effectively solves many problems; and that they shouldn't indirectly pay for something they don't believe in (abortion).
-Leftist hypocrisy. Christianity is mocked, while Islam is defended. Stereotyping and racism is bad, unless it's against whitey. We need to help the poor get back on their feet, as long as they're immigrants. If someone does something as part of a leftist group, it's on them; if someone does something in a rightist group, it represents all of them forever.
-Anti establishment. Bernie Supporters, Occupy Wall Street, Tea Party. Those all didn't just disappear. Hillary was the continuation of the status quo, Trump was a chance at something different - whatever it may be.
It always amuses me when people say Colbert, Stewart, Oliver or SNL are centrists and "make fun of both sides equally". If their comedy was half a funny as that concept I would still watch them.
Actual full-blooded Trump supporter here. Not a disaffected BernieBro, not a lesser of two evils, not an anti-Hillary supporter, but a Trump is the best modern politician since Ron Paul retired supporter.
Here's three things the left misses:
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The election was primarily about one issue: Is America a sovereign nation or are Americans citizens of the world in thrall to the globalist elite?
That was what the election was about.
On the one hand you had Trump, who stood alone in advocating that America should:
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Control her own borders
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Determine who is allowed in America
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Determine her economic policy for her own benefit
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Determine her foreign policy for American priorities
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Avoid unnecessary war
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Not restart the Cold War
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End off-shoring
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Rebuild American industry
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Audit the federal reserve and reduce its power
Opposed to Trump were absolutely everybody: big business, corporate media, neocons, neoliberals, the global elite, etc. variously arguing that:
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Controlling borders is racist
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Controlling citizenship and residency is racist
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We should escalate conflict with Russia
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Americans should be happy to lose their jobs and industry to foreigners
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Americans should suffer lower wages for corporate profits and consumerism
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More military involvement in the Middle East
So the choice was simple: America is American; Americans are not interchangeable economic units subservient to the globalists.
What I don't understand is the left. For decades they've been railing against war, corporate power, globalism, free trade at the expense of workers, bankers, off-shoring, etc.
Trump is the first candidate in ages who legitimately stood against all of this. Yet they hated him with a blinding, irrational passion.
2) Social justice totalitarianism.
In this case, this is completely a leftist own goal. With Obama being elected twice and demographics going the way they were, the right was feeling defeated; there was an overwhelming sense the left had won permanently and we were beaten. The culture war was over.(See the Benedict Option).
Had the left recognized their victory and been magmanious, we'd probably have President Clinton right now. But the left weren't content to win; they decided to be as ruthless and totalitarian as possible in every area.
They destroyed small businesses for not wanting to be involved in gay "marriages". They brought the Sisters of the Poor and various other Catholics to court to force them to buy birth control. Leftists have no idea how much impact these attacks had on the religious and conservatives in general. We couldn't peacefully surrender because the left was not taking prisoners.
The constant talk of white privilege and ending whiteness; combined with the left's tacit approval of violence by BLM and the seeming approval of blacks attacking cops.
The college rape panic and the insane kangaroo courts and regulations resulting from it has frightened a lot of young men and mothers of sons.
Also up was Gamergate (and other related intrusions into popular culture). The left decided to do a full court press against gamers because they like attractive women in games. I can not count the number of formerly liberal or apathetic gamers who became right-wing from this. It's probably the best recruiting tool the right has had in ages.
Those are just a few examples of the left's overriding totalitarian need to force their way everywhere. This frightened, mobilized, and made enemies of a lot of people, who may otherwise have given up or been apathetic.
The left literally turned victory into Trump.
3/ Relatedly is tribalism. In their unmerciful victory, the left has resurrected white tribalism.
Whites have not voted tribally as a race in decades and males have not voted based on their sexual identity ever; they've voted against other whites based on religion, ideology, culture, and geography.
But with BLM violence, all the white/male privilege talk, identity politics, all the extreme feminism, and so on, whites are beginning to identify as white and males are beginning to think politically as males in reaction. Whites and males are looking at their whiteness and their maleness left has demanded but they are not hating themselves like the left wanted. The left is literally building white male identity. It's still only vague and half-formed, but if the leftists don't ease up on the identity politics; you won't have civic nationalists like Trump and Bannon in 2024, you'll have a literal white nationalists.
Finally, I'll add #4. It's relatively minor but interesting thing most people missed: Twitter.
Twitter is/was the most popular platform for cultural elites to chat. Right-wing trolls (many recent converts due to gamergate) took to Twitter to troll these elites. These was a very small group; a few thousand at most. but due to the nature of social media, the cultural elites blew it way out of proportion. You had Hillary literally make a national speech on Pepe to the bewilderment of almost everybody. They started conflating all Trump supporters with the trolls and the cultural elites literally handed them way more influence and power than they could possibly have had otherwise.
Probably the only person elected who has delivered what he promised he said he would do and in a very short timeframe.. How many other politicians do you know have kept their word?
ITT: tell us why you support Trump so we can tell you why you're wrong and a bigot
I don't know why I expected anything different, some genuine conversation, but a lot of baseless/subjective assertions spoken like fact
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