Robert Reacts (ASOIAF/Everything Open Sandbox) | Page 182 | SpaceBattles

Robert Reacts (ASOIAF/Everything Open Sandbox)

What do you want Robert to react to next?

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    • do not post a video and a simple request to react to it
    This has been said before, but let me make this clear: if you have a request, you need to post WHY it would be something cool for a reaction, not simply post the video and a one liner that amounts to "this would be funny." From here on out, failure to comply with this standard will be met with infracts and ejection from the thread for a few days on the first offense, and permanently for repeat offenders.
     
  • Staff Post
    • Has there been reaction to an industrial revolution?

    p020901 said:
    What about the prospect of nobles fighting for the nation and the people instead of for the state? While I'm not quite sure if nationalism is exactly a thing (or rather, that important a factor) in day to day life even for the nobles of the Middle Age/Westeros, there is quite some... should I say 'bad blood' between the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros, within and without. Do you think it would be enough for them to disregard the state for the nation (yet)?
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    Hmmm, maybe a react during the Napoleonic era perhaps? IIRC, that is when nationalism went into self sustaining thanks to the L`Empereur.
     
    Nationalism is really not as new as we tend to think. While the idea of nationalism didn't exist until the late 18th, and didn't get popular until the 19th century, nationalism itself is basically an expansion of the tribal "us vs. them" mindset.
    "us" being all who share the same language and culture - or serve the same king -, and "them" being everyone else (Except, perhaps, close allies). The Northeners for instance are actually fairly nationalistic (as in, mid 19th century nationalism). While the idea of a "Nation" rather than a state doesn't exist in their society yet. All it would take is for someone to introduce to the main societal and intellectual elite, and - oh boy - things will happen.

    edit: When I say: "things", I mean that Westeros would be torn apart by ethno-cultural civil wars within decades. Provided the ideas find a way to spread.
     
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    As far as I can tell the only thing about Westeros that is better than medieval Europe is the percentage of people that can read and write thanks to the maesters like Luiwn
     
    War1hammer said:
    As far as I can tell the only thing about Westeros that is better than medieval Europe is the percentage of people that can read and write thanks to the maesters like Luiwn
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    While I'm not sure about reading and writing part, I do agree that the maesters, as a whole, give Westeros the one thing that they are better at than Europe was; effective medical treatment (to a point).
     
    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    While I'm not sure about reading and writing part, I do agree that the maesters, as a whole, give Westeros the one thing that they are better at than Europe was; effective medical treatment (to a point).
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    In the time of Rome approximately 10% of people in Europe (or at least the empire) were literate
    By the time of people like King Charliman (I don't know how to spell his name) it was less than 1% (most nobles, priests and even a large number of kings couldn't read or write)
    The maesters have given the nobles a higher standard of learning than what we had


    last admiral said:
    Actually, the Maester Order is much more shite than Catholic Church when it come to education and knowledge perservation department.
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    At least they don't rewrite every myth, religion or history to fit their narrative (as far as we know though I have no doubt that they are trying to control it)
     
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    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    Oh, allright, props to the maesters!

    btw: it's Charlemagne, or Karl the Great if you're germanic `;)
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    Charlemagne himself couldn't read or write and he was a king

    To give you an idea of how rare it was in the fanfic A Thing of Viking's (the man writing it has done a lot of historical research) the moment a Bishop sees Snotloud reading a report the Bishop drags him of to find out why nobody informed him (the Bishop) Snotloud was literate (and before you ask why the Viking Snotloud was literate his village spent 300 years being raided by dragons and the law keepers kept dying so they needed to write these things down incase some one died resulting in universal literacy)
     
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    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    While the Roman Legions and Chinese army would no doubt impress them, I don't think it will truly blow their minds. Most of them should know of the old Ghiscari Legions (even if only as another group of badasses the Valyrians made their bitch).
    The fact that we are talking about two civilizations radically different to Westeros will not escape their minds, I think they will be impressed, but conclude that it is only possible in Roman or Chinese society.
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    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    However the idea that Medieval Europe, which is extremely similar to Westeros, could have an effective professional, standing army...
    Something like the Black Army, the late medieval Danish Army, or even the early Landsknechte of Maximillian would shock them to the core. Because it uproots the whole feudal-military system they take for granted
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    Ohh absolutely...and don't forget to throw in the Swiss Cantons and the Tercio's as well. The best part about all of this is that any change to the military recruitment by any King in Westeros to emulate the real world would be resisted heavily because they would fear losing their power. The problems of having a horrifically unrealistic and unbalanced feudal system.
    bissek said:
    Though one thing to note about "sellswords bad" is that it can vary depending on if you mean a single sellsword or a company. A company has leaders to keep the unruly men under control, and because its a large group, its reputation spreads. An individual has less such constraints.
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    Yeah true, but the Westerosi disdain sell swords as a whole, regardless of how "professional" they are. In fact, everytime a Sellsword shows up, they are all portrayed as rapists and scum of the earth by GRRM.
    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    Since we're pointing out GRRM's mistakes regarding medieval society:
    How do you think they will react to the fact that r*pe was actually extremely rare in medieval times? In so far as there is no ecidence of it being widespread, even during wartimes.
    For crying out loud, the vikings (the people most often accused of mass r*pe, and the people the Ironborn are a poor imitation of) punished it with death. Seriously if you killed a man, you could get away with a fine, if you r*ped someone; you die (at least in the lands that would become Denmark).

    The thing is, in societies based around the ideal of honor; honor is actually really damn important! The fact that they accept r*pe to be an unavoidable part of life, would disgust a medieval man, noble or commoner.
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    Another thing that would blow their mind, and would probably have Queen Bitch Whore Cersei shrieking about how blessed we are and how unfair Westeros is and then blaming everyone else around her.
    War1hammer said:
    As far as I can tell the only thing about Westeros that is better than medieval Europe is the percentage of people that can read and write thanks to the maesters like Luiwn
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    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    While I'm not sure about reading and writing part, I do agree that the maesters, as a whole, give Westeros the one thing that they are better at than Europe was; effective medical treatment (to a point).
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    last admiral said:
    Actually, the Maester Order is much more shite than Catholic Church when it come to education and knowledge perservation department.
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    War1hammer said:
    At least they don't rewrite every myth, religion or history to fit their narrative (as far as we know though I have no doubt that they are trying to control it)
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    Ehh, the effectiveness of the Maester Order thing is debatable, on one hand, yeah they have achieved a somewhat higher literary rate in Westeros thanks to their efforts, on the other hand, they are heavily implied to have completely destroyed any evidence of magic and are basically the Westerosi equivalent of what the fanon thinks of the Adeptus Mechanicus. And while 9th and 10th century literary rates were below Westorosi standard, once you hit the 12-14th century is where IRL Europe equalizes the gap.
    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    Oh, allright, props to the maesters!

    btw: it's Charlemagne, or Karl the Great if you're germanic `;)
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    Though, with all that taken into account, they did a good job with literacy rates, gotta give the Westerosi a consolation prize.
     
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    GuestLurker said:
    And medicinal knowledge, they have that better than a lot of Earth, especially Europe, did at the time too.
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    To be fair Westeros never suffered the same sort of fall of the Roman Empire. The closest thing they had the Valyrian empire didn't even reach Westeros so the Westrosi people didn't have that knowledge suddenly forgotten. And then they were conquered by Aegon who didn't try to reform the empire and instead kept many of the existing Westeros traditions only changing they all had a singular king instead of being a bunch of squabbling states
     
    Zone-Meister said:
    Ohh absolutely...and don't forget to throw in the Swiss Cantons and the Tercio's as well. The best part about all of this is that any change to the military recruitment by any King in Westeros to emulate the real world would be resisted heavily because they would fear losing their power. The problems of having a horrifically unrealistic and unbalanced feudal system.
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    Ahhh... Swiss and Tercios... the two things you really didn't wan't to meet in the late Medeival/early Renaissance period.
    Tercios basically kickstarting the development of modern warfare.
    And Swiss... well Sabaton's "The Last Stand" tell one everything he needs to know...

    edit: Also, Denmark had a similar problem with feudal lords. Danish nobility pre-absolutism was the most priviliged nobility in Europe (if not the World). Heck, the only reasons the Kings could secure their heirs in the 15th and 16th centuries, was because the King of Denmark, was also King of Sweden and Norway. Norway was a hereditary monarchy, while Denmark was an electoral monarchy.
     
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    GuestLurker said:
    And medicinal knowledge, they have that better than a lot of Earth, especially Europe, did at the time too.
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    At the 8-10th century?. Definitely without a question. And as angroon mentioned, the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the subsequent chaos that led to the aptly named "Dark Ages" meant that people were generally busy trying to survive and thrive, which meant that hoarding knowledge the same way the Maesters did was put at the back burner for a long time. Seriously, the amount of chaos and conflict that occured at the time period would certainly rival the Three Kingdoms Era.

    Son_of_DANCAS said:
    Ahhh... Swiss and Tercios... the two things you really didn't wan't to meet in the late Medeival/early Renaissance period.
    Tercios basically kickstarting the development of modern warfare.
    And Swiss... well Sabaton's "The Last Stand" tell one everything he needs to know...
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    Indeed, that they can't emulate this form of organisation for their own military (or what passes for it) would drive Robert crazy. Whatever he may be, he's is a decent soldier and leader.
     
    Robert reads An Age of Prosperity, The Kingdom of Denmark. 5
  • Threadmarks
    • Robert Reacts to: An Age of Prosperity, The Kingdom of Denmark. 5

    Aftermath

    Luwin: Your Grace, My Lords, it seems that these "Bishops" are indeed the same as the ones from the crusades. And they seem to be actual landholders.

    Robert: Priests with the rights of Lords! Imagine that Ned! Septons holding their own castles, raising their own levies, madness I tell you!

    Eddard: Aye, they seem to put too much authority in the hands of their church.

    Robb: We have also seen that they can call upon a large number of levies (for their size). At least 10.000 and almost double if it weren't for the rebellion.

    In the summer of 1224, Valdemar II received envoys from Norway. Sigurd Ribbung, having escaped in 1223 from Skule Bårdsson the Jarl of Nidaros, and one of the most powerful men of Norway. Sigurd Ribbung is a pretender to the Norwegian throne. Much of Viken have joined him in his rebellion against Håkon IV, the Norwegian king that resides in Bergen. Seeing an opportunity to stop the rise of Håkon IV, and Norway as a whole or at least disrupt it, Valdemar II agrees to send 3.000 men under Johannes Ebbesen to support the claim of Sigurd Ribbung, as long as he marries the Danish noble woman Ingeborg Ulfeldt, the daughter of Peder Strangesen of Kalundborg. In the early parts of 1225, she will arrive in Viken, with another 1.000 men from her father's holdings. As of 1225, Valdemar III, the elected prince is of age. He will take on a larger role of governing the country.

    Cersei: He just defeated a rebellion, and now he supports another? Typical.

    Tyrion: He is making allies, dear sister. Surely even you can understand that.

    Cersei: :rage:

    Joffery: Only 4.000? To topple a Kingdom! What is he some minor lordling with a crown!?

    Jaime: He can levy at least 10.000, he must believe that 4.000 are enough.

    For decades, the Polish dukes and Prussian tribes have been locked in warfare, the Poles to convert the pagans, and the Prussian tribes raiding the Polish lands for slaves. While the Polish at times have succeeded in defeating the pagan tribes and converting them, they soon turn back towards their pagan roots. While waiting for the pope's answer, Valdemar II has been conducting correspondence with the Duke of Masovia, Konrad I, about a joint campaign against the Prussian tribes.

    Eddard: I have mixed feelings about this...

    Jon: On one hand, forced convertion...

    Robb: On the other, slavers `:mad:

    Tyrion: Hmm... It might be that these crusades are only an excuse...

    Robert: What?

    Tyrion: Well, if the neighbors are constantly raiding them. Then I see why they would wan't to conquer them. And if they use Holy War as a justification...

    Jaime: Then no one would, or even could, object!

    In Norway the fighting has become a standstill, Håkon IV has been beaten back from southern Norway, and Sigurd Ribbung is in complete control of Viken, However they are not strong enough or interested in going on the offensive. Håkon IV has increasingly trouble of controlling Skule Bårdsson, the second most powerful man in Norway. In the summer of 1226, a son is born to Sigurd Ribbung and Ingeborg Ulfeldt. Unfortunate Sigurd Ribbung in the winter becomes ill, and passes away in late 1226.

    The Bagler nobles decide to support the infant Harald Sigurdsson, also known as Harald Ribbung. Due to a fear of losing Danish support, if they do not. Ingeborg and Harald are spirited away to Denmark, where Harald will grow up in Valdemar's court. The Danish soldiers and mercenaries under Johannes Ebbesen stays in Norway.

    Robert: A standstill? Come on!

    Tyrion: Isn't Harald a Northern name?

    Jon: Yes, but the 'd' is silent.

    Robb: You pronounce it "Hah-ral".

    Jaime: They have knights and wage Holy War, but have Northern names?

    Barristan: Begs the question; Who are they most like?

    In Valdemar's realm, the land is returning to normality, the economy and population are growing at a steady pace, Rügen, Pomerania and Estonia starts receiving Danish settlers, which will clear the forested areas and build new villages. Economic wise, especially Lübeck is booming, the salt trade and the Herring trade is immense, while Lübeck does not have a monopoly on the herring trade, it is by far the largest participant, however Rostock, Havn, Stettin, Wismar and other towns and cities in the western parts of the Baltic Sea to some degree participates in the annual fishing. For the areas on the coast of the Øresund the benefits are obvious, nevertheless, no place other than Skanør and Falsterbo in the extreme southwest of Skåne benefits the most. It is out of these two areas that most herring are caught, two royal castles are build to secure that Valdemar II can control the herring trade. Another important trade good for the prospering danish towns and cities is the importation of Swedish Iron and copper by the Swedish city of Kalmar and Visby.

    Eddard: They have priorities in order I see.

    Cersei: Fish? What value could such a disgusting trade hold for any but the least of peoples?

    Eddard: Food and iron are worth more to the starving farmer or blacksmith, than all the gold in the World... your Grace.

    Robert: Damn Ned, I thought I was the one with the hammer...

    In Holstein, the castle of Bengerndsborg is founded on the spot where Johannes Ebbesen landed the Danish army in 1223, it will serve to become the resident of choice for Christoffer, Duke of Holstein and his mother. As time goes on the surrounding area will become the largest city in the duchy.

    Jaime: An auspicious location...

    Tyrion: Perhaps it brings luck? `;)

    Before his death in 1227 Pope Honorious III gave acceptance to Valdemar and other Christian nobles in Northern Europe to invade the Prussian tribes, as such the correspondence between Valdemar II and Konrad I intensifies to come to an agreement between the two rulers.

    Robert: Now we are talking!

    Map

    Robb: So a lot of disunited tribes, how haven't they been conquered yet?

    Jon: Ferocity and luck most like. Shame the latter is about to run out.

    In Norway, relations between Skule Bårdsson and Håkon IV have broken down; Norway is essentially split into three areas. Valdemar's support of Sigurd Ribbung, have succeeded in preventing the rise of the Norwegian Kingdom. Johannes Ebbesen and the Danish forces have little to do. They have effectively become a garrison force.

    Barristan: A three way war? Messy.

    Jaime: Well, garrison duty is always boring.

    1228, sees more preparation for the crusade, also Valdemar, the elected prince becomes a father, a bastard son is born, the son is named Sigurd.

    Robert: Ha! Look at that Ned! That boy knows what life is about!

    In 1229 Valdemar, the elected prince is married to Eleanor of Portugal, the niece of his stepmom. Knut Holmgersson deposes Erik XI Eriksson the King of Sweden and the nephew of Valdemar II as a result Erik XI flees to Denmark. Which is rather inconvenient for the Danish king, which is preparing for the campaign against the pagans in the Baltic.

    Robert: And now he is trapped in marriage... oh and Valdemar will have a problem with this.

    Eddard: *sigh* Priorities Robert...

    Tyrion: Inconvenient is a bit of an understatement. Valdemar will have to respond to this.

    Jaime: Most likely, he will call off the crusade.

    ————
    I said at least one chapter a day :evil:
     
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    • sammyboy47 said:
    That's unfair, those are religious mercenaries protecting A LEADER OF RELIGION. Hell, IIRC, they are only inducted of they are pious.

    Still, mercenaries has a reputation to protect.
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    The Swiss were more than just religious mercenaries, they were also well-regarded by other rulers and monarchs that they ended up having bidding wars over the right to be their employer. Even having them as court guards were seen as prestigious because of their loyalty to fight even when the odds were against them. When Louis XVI fled his palace from the revolutionaries, it was the Swiss who gave him time to escape at the expense of their own lives.

    The Lion lies in his lair in the perpendicular face of a low cliff—for he is carved from the living rock of the cliff. His size is colossal, his attitude is noble. His head is bowed, the broken spear is sticking in his shoulder, his protecting paw rests upon the lilies of France. Vines hang down the cliff and wave in the wind, and a clear stream trickles from above and empties into a pond at the base, and in the smooth surface of the pond the lion is mirrored, among the water-lilies.

    Around about are green trees and grass. The place is a sheltered, reposeful woodland nook, remote from noise and stir and confusion—and all this is fitting, for lions do die in such places, and not on granite pedestals in public squares fenced with fancy iron railings. The Lion of Lucerne would be impressive anywhere, but nowhere so impressive as where he is.
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    -Mark Twain, A Tramp Abroad, 1880
     
    p020901 said:
    Would be pretty CMOA if Robert can bring out his inner soldier-ness and emulate/copy/recreate the Tercios for the coming war.
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    Pfftt. That's an ever distant dream. Robert is absolutely terrible as a ruler/King and politician because he is so disinterested in it. He just doesn't care and that lack of care despite people trying to snap him out of it (like his foster father Jon and to a lesser extent Ned) caused him to run he Seven Kingdoms to the ground and indirectly got him killed. He's only good at fighting and leading at the battlefield.

    So no...he would laugh and extoll it's virtues...and then he would go back to drinking and whoring because actually getting those lords to support an army that reduces their power directly is extremely difficult.
    sammyboy47 said:
    That's unfair, those are religious mercenaries protecting A LEADER OF RELIGION. Hell, IIRC, they are only inducted of they are pious.

    Still, mercenaries has a reputation to protect.
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    The thing about the Swiss is that their reputation as a whole was beyond superb. Even when technology and tactics rendered their combat formations ineffective. The Swiss were still valued as mercenaries because of their impeccable loyalty, their superb skill in fighting and their dedication.

    Also ninjad by Kamzil.
     
    Hmm, it's been a while so I can't quite remember, but have they ever reacted to the War of the Roses? As one of the events that inspired ASOIAF it'd be interesting to see their take on it I think.
     
    Well... They would certainly be interested, but since the comparisons aren't obvious until the WoFK starts, I don't think they will react that strongly. They would probably go: "What a bunch of idiots/assholes".
     
    Hm, I wonder how would they react to French Revolution, not the meme one, as well as the Holy Roman Empire.


    EDIT: Also, I wonder how would they react to a youtube channel, Forgotten Weapons.
     
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