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Gothic Charm School: An Essential Guide for Goths and Those Who Love Them
An essential, fully illustrated guidebook to day-to-day Goth living There's more to being a Goth than throwing on some black velvet, dyeing your hair, and calling it a day (or a night). How do you dress with morbid flair when going to a job interview? Is there such a thing as growing too old to be a Goth? How do you explain to your grandma that it's not just a phase? Jillian Venters, a.k.a. "the Lady of the Manners," knows how to be strange and unusual without sacrificing politeness and etiquette. In Gothic Charm School , she offers the quintessential guide to dark decorum for all those who have ever searched for beauty in dark, unexpected places, embraced their individuality, and reveled in decadence . . . and for families and friends who just don't understand.
256 pages, Paperback
First published June 1, 2009
About the author
Jillian Venters
6 books87 followersJillian Venters was a fairly spooky and morbid child. When she discovered the existence of the whole Gothic subculture, she clapped her hands with glee and fell upon it like a babybat upon a box of Count Chocula cereal. Since then, the Lady of the Manners has spent a not inconsiderable amount of time trying to gently persuade others in her chosen subculture that being a polite Goth is much, much more subversive than just wearing t-shirts with "edgy" sayings on them. She lives in Seattle.
(Added because it doesn't automatically display with the photo: the current author photo is courtesy of Ian Crowfeather, originally posted on Flickr under a Creative Commons BY-NC-SA license.)
(Added because it doesn't automatically display with the photo: the current author photo is courtesy of Ian Crowfeather, originally posted on Flickr under a Creative Commons BY-NC-SA license.)
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 88 reviews
May 10, 2016
If you've hung around the Seattle scene enough, you've probably seen the author of this book. Dressed in giant swirling dark concoctions of lace and frills, petticoats and layers, giant hats and shiny shoes, Jillian stands out instantly. She's always impeccably dressed, and at first glance can be an intimidating fixture, even with a smile on her face. Yet every time I've spoken with her (usually in a bathroom, sharing the same mirror), she is kind, polite, funny and goes out of her way to put one at ease. She is the epitome of grace under pressure.
Also known as The Gothic Miss Manners, I've read her blog off and on for years, so when I finally saw her book, it was a no-brainer to snatch it up. Filled with advice not just for goths young and old, but anyone who is interested in the scene (or even a little intimidated by it), this is a common sense handbook for being a decent person.
It is in turns silly and serious, snarky and kind. I really appreciated her voice in this, which pretty much boils down to "treat others well and don't be a dick." There are practical suggestions on how to handle social interactions, well-meaning clueless folks, and the downright rude. The illustrations are the bleeding cherry on the pitch black cake, adding levity and valuable instruction.
If you have a babygoth in your life, this is a fantastic resource for setting them on the right path to self-esteem in whatever image they choose to put forth. If you just want to dabble on the dark side, there is a place for you too, whatever degree of darkness fits your comfort zone. And if you're an Elder Goth, you may just recognize yourself here and there. If none of the above fits, this is still a valuable guide on taking the high road, being a decent person, and making the world a slightly better place, one goth at a time.
Also known as The Gothic Miss Manners, I've read her blog off and on for years, so when I finally saw her book, it was a no-brainer to snatch it up. Filled with advice not just for goths young and old, but anyone who is interested in the scene (or even a little intimidated by it), this is a common sense handbook for being a decent person.
It is in turns silly and serious, snarky and kind. I really appreciated her voice in this, which pretty much boils down to "treat others well and don't be a dick." There are practical suggestions on how to handle social interactions, well-meaning clueless folks, and the downright rude. The illustrations are the bleeding cherry on the pitch black cake, adding levity and valuable instruction.
If you have a babygoth in your life, this is a fantastic resource for setting them on the right path to self-esteem in whatever image they choose to put forth. If you just want to dabble on the dark side, there is a place for you too, whatever degree of darkness fits your comfort zone. And if you're an Elder Goth, you may just recognize yourself here and there. If none of the above fits, this is still a valuable guide on taking the high road, being a decent person, and making the world a slightly better place, one goth at a time.
July 25, 2011
This book is snarky! If I wanted a child's point of view on life I would have asked my 4 year old who seems to have better manners than this ranting author.
In this simple guide to everything you ever wanted to know about Gothic culture in today's world, Jillian Venters:the Lady of Manners", attempts to enlighten the nieve and broaden the Goth with proper do's and don't's of the genre .
I would really like to believe that people that chose to follow this way of life are much more vibrant, fun and ecletic than this novel portrays. I am disappointed with the narrow choices given to point the reader to reference particular books, music, social standards etc. Venters often strays from valid points of interest and persists in a rant that the world is against Goths.
I have always loved the energy behind the rebellious idea of straying from social norms, but this book misses key focal points. The most annoying part of this book is the author refering to herself in the third person.
In this simple guide to everything you ever wanted to know about Gothic culture in today's world, Jillian Venters:the Lady of Manners", attempts to enlighten the nieve and broaden the Goth with proper do's and don't's of the genre .
I would really like to believe that people that chose to follow this way of life are much more vibrant, fun and ecletic than this novel portrays. I am disappointed with the narrow choices given to point the reader to reference particular books, music, social standards etc. Venters often strays from valid points of interest and persists in a rant that the world is against Goths.
I have always loved the energy behind the rebellious idea of straying from social norms, but this book misses key focal points. The most annoying part of this book is the author refering to herself in the third person.
September 27, 2009
I thought I might learn some interesting facts or insights into the goth subculture. Turns out, I already seem to know everything about it. This book is too long. The author makes the same 4 points over and over, even repeating the same sentences throughout the book, making it read oddly like deja vu.
1. If you aren't goth, don't be an asshole to those who are.
2. If you are goth, be polite to those who aren't.
3. Goth is about literature, music, and most importantly, fashion.
4. Goth is "not just a phase" - grown-ups can be goth too.
Nevertheless, this book is really written for teens.
(It also has some really distracting editing/grammatical errors. And the author has an annoying way of writing about herself in 3rd person.) I wish this had been better.
1. If you aren't goth, don't be an asshole to those who are.
2. If you are goth, be polite to those who aren't.
3. Goth is about literature, music, and most importantly, fashion.
4. Goth is "not just a phase" - grown-ups can be goth too.
Nevertheless, this book is really written for teens.
(It also has some really distracting editing/grammatical errors. And the author has an annoying way of writing about herself in 3rd person.) I wish this had been better.
April 12, 2015
Honestly, I'm a little surprised that some people consider the tone of this book to be snarky. I think quite the opposite - Jillian comes across as a warm, bubbly lady who wishes to inform both goths and non-goths alike about the culture. While there is certainly an emphasis on the importance of etiquette (perhaps a bit too much), it is an important message to be sending; for anyone, not just the darkly inclined. This book, in my eyes, conveys a love for Goth and Gothlings. Furthermore, it touches on important points for anyone with an association to the culture. Is it perfect? No, nothing is. But it carries with it the same charm that is presented in the title. I would recommend this to anyone involved in or wanting to know more about the goth subculture.
November 1, 2015
A nice behavioral guide to the Goth subculture.
Written in a personable style with neatly organized sections to make it easier for you to pick and choose what you want to read.
Also, BEAUTIFUL illustration by Pete Venters, the author's husband and a talented artist. Those were my favorite parts of the book.
Recommend to anyone newly interested in the Goth world, or those who might just be curious.
Written in a personable style with neatly organized sections to make it easier for you to pick and choose what you want to read.
Also, BEAUTIFUL illustration by Pete Venters, the author's husband and a talented artist. Those were my favorite parts of the book.
Recommend to anyone newly interested in the Goth world, or those who might just be curious.
September 17, 2021
After reading a whole serious history book I figured the next item of business on my spooky szn reading was going to be Jillian Venters’ Gothic Charm School: An Essential Guide for Goths and Those Who Love Them. This book was published over 10 years ago now and has been sitting on my shelf for at least the last two of them, mostly just looking pretty (which is, admittedly, the main job of gothic things that sit on shelves) while I then proceeded to get all my goth advice from the website and Venters’ social media accounts.
While I therefore cannot say that any of the content of this book was earth-shatteringly new to me--I am, after all, old enough that people have started coming to me for goth advice, and I’m not even involved in whatever local goth “scene” Boston has--it was still both a delightful and useful read: delightful, because it’s nice to revisit a whole lot of Goth Content at once and remind myself that there’s more fun and active parts of the subculture than just dropping all my disposable income on candles at Hauswitch (although I certainly do love buying candles at Hauswitch), and useful, because (like a lot of folks) I have turned into something of an even-more-than-usual feral weirdo over the course of this whole pandemic thing, and I have to re-teach myself how to do… everything, really.
Because Goths are, in their own way, still normal people (or… we’re people, at any rate), the advice in this book runs the gamut from extremely Goth-specific (“common pitfalls of deciding to dress up as The Crow”) to general life advice (roommate agreements, not being a dick when you don’t like your friend’s shitty boyfriend). It’s also a nice mix of concrete, practical sorts of advice (step one in assembling a gothy wardrobe: buy some lint rollers. No, more lint rollers than that) to more attitudinal/theoretical stuff about the importance of being polite (especially for long-haired freaky people) and the pitfalls of gatekeeping. Honestly, a lot of the stuff about gatekeeping and general bad-attitude-ery is valuable advice across a wide range of social categories (looking at you, anyone who has ever complained about “fake geek girls”). The dating advice seems solid but I must admit that it amuses me (because the other option is having it annoy me) that normal people think that “fancying other people” is so normal that the idea of not doing so strikes them as so weird as to be impossible, and yet every group of self-styled freaks and radicals I’ve ever run across is completely convinced that “fancying other people” is, in fact, the freaky and radical thing that separates them from the normies (at least, until I won’t go out with them, in which case it’s back to being Scientifically Impossible not to). To be clear, I am, here, annoyed at these subcultures generally, not at Venters, whose advice does include such sadly necessary gems as “don’t assume all Goths are bisexual” (yes, even in Boston, which is apparently the most bisexual county in the U.S.).
Overall this book is lovely and has started to put me in the mood for doing gothy things in the leadup to Halloween. I have dug out my Halloween playlist and at some point next week may even drag myself to Michael’s to get frames for the Addams Family playing cards I picked up at Brimfield so I can put them on the wall where they’re supposed to be. If anyone else wants a short, readable bit of Gothy inspiration this Halloween season, I’m happy to lend out my copy.
Originally posted at And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people".
While I therefore cannot say that any of the content of this book was earth-shatteringly new to me--I am, after all, old enough that people have started coming to me for goth advice, and I’m not even involved in whatever local goth “scene” Boston has--it was still both a delightful and useful read: delightful, because it’s nice to revisit a whole lot of Goth Content at once and remind myself that there’s more fun and active parts of the subculture than just dropping all my disposable income on candles at Hauswitch (although I certainly do love buying candles at Hauswitch), and useful, because (like a lot of folks) I have turned into something of an even-more-than-usual feral weirdo over the course of this whole pandemic thing, and I have to re-teach myself how to do… everything, really.
Because Goths are, in their own way, still normal people (or… we’re people, at any rate), the advice in this book runs the gamut from extremely Goth-specific (“common pitfalls of deciding to dress up as The Crow”) to general life advice (roommate agreements, not being a dick when you don’t like your friend’s shitty boyfriend). It’s also a nice mix of concrete, practical sorts of advice (step one in assembling a gothy wardrobe: buy some lint rollers. No, more lint rollers than that) to more attitudinal/theoretical stuff about the importance of being polite (especially for long-haired freaky people) and the pitfalls of gatekeeping. Honestly, a lot of the stuff about gatekeeping and general bad-attitude-ery is valuable advice across a wide range of social categories (looking at you, anyone who has ever complained about “fake geek girls”). The dating advice seems solid but I must admit that it amuses me (because the other option is having it annoy me) that normal people think that “fancying other people” is so normal that the idea of not doing so strikes them as so weird as to be impossible, and yet every group of self-styled freaks and radicals I’ve ever run across is completely convinced that “fancying other people” is, in fact, the freaky and radical thing that separates them from the normies (at least, until I won’t go out with them, in which case it’s back to being Scientifically Impossible not to). To be clear, I am, here, annoyed at these subcultures generally, not at Venters, whose advice does include such sadly necessary gems as “don’t assume all Goths are bisexual” (yes, even in Boston, which is apparently the most bisexual county in the U.S.).
Overall this book is lovely and has started to put me in the mood for doing gothy things in the leadup to Halloween. I have dug out my Halloween playlist and at some point next week may even drag myself to Michael’s to get frames for the Addams Family playing cards I picked up at Brimfield so I can put them on the wall where they’re supposed to be. If anyone else wants a short, readable bit of Gothy inspiration this Halloween season, I’m happy to lend out my copy.
Originally posted at And the sign said "Long-haired freaky people".
Read
January 20, 2019So I still need to properly sit down and read this book all the way through, from chapter from chapter but what I've read so far... isn't accurate. Compared to all of the internet sources I've read, all the fanzines on the subculture (sold when it was at its beginning) and, most importantly, books like Some Wear Leather, Some Wear Lace: The Worldwide Compendium of Postpunk and Goth in the 1980s that have interviews from the people who were in the original Batcave scene or musicians (like Alien Sex Fiend) all cite that the music is the most important thing when being Goth. And of course it is, I agree, because even the fashion came from the music and some people remember that they never even knew where it came from (but wouldn't have just cropped up without the music).
If anyone knows the first thing about Goth, you'll know that the song that gave birth to the subculture was Bela Lugosi's Dead by Bauhaus. Not fishnets, or leather. Sure, fashion is still an aspect of the Goth subculture, because that's the way you express yourself visually (and that's what the ignorant person sees as only being Goth; unless you have music patches and badges all over your clothes) but in the end, a Goth is still a fan of Goth rock, like a Metalhead is a fan of metal music and a Punk is a a fan of Punk rock.
By being part of the Goth subculture, we're not saying that you only have to be into Goth rock, post-punk and deathrock or that you should be a clone of every Goth out there. Because you shouldn't. You can listen to other genres of music, and like things that are non-goth as well. It's just that Goth is a subculture of people who have similar interests in fashion, music and aesthetic. So when you take out the music, and the aesthetic, you're just someone who's wearing black lacey clothes with no meaning behind them.
So from what I've seen:
Goth - A fan or performer of goth music.
Gothic - Refers only to the 12th century French architecture, and the 19th century literary genre called Gothic literature. Can also refer to ceramics, glass, and furniture, too (the furniture looks like Gothic architecture).
Dark romantic - What fans of Gothic literature are called, hence how Poe was a dark romantic.
Darkly inclined - Someone who has a dark mindset. Likes things like graveyards; candles on a cold rainy night; abandoned derelict buildings and so on. It's fine to like these things if you're Goth (I sure do) but it doesn't make someone Goth on its own so I'd kindly like to ask you to stop with this whole "Goth is (only) a mindset" type nonsense.
While the architecture and literature (plus film genre) aren't part of the subculture, there is a bit of response there. Dracula by Bram Stoker was written, and then it came out as a film adaption by the same name in 1931 (Bela Lugosi played Dracula himself) and then Bauhaus wrote about the actors death 23 years later with Bela Lugosi's Dead.
To quote from the magazine Drop Dead Magazine
If someone stopped dressing in goth fashion, would that make them suddenly not goth? At least if you were into the music as well and you dressed "normal" for the day, you'd still be goth and it's not entirely based on what types of fabric you choose to cloth your body that day.
People have this belief that "Goth" is a persona someone uses because they're bored of being themselves, they want to fit in with a group or because they're insecure. When it's not. They can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that it's just who they are and they didn't try to be part of a subculture and that their natural interests / tastes just have associations with it.
You can only get so many people out there, and more people are part of subcultures than you'd believe. They weren't trying to be anything, they're just being themselves.
Another thing I feel I've got to do is to crack down on this whole "different types of Goth" thing. I mean, there just isn't. There really is just what's come from actual goth itself; traditional goth, deathrock, and romantic goth (darkwavers). As for CyberGoth, pastel goth, steampunk, metalhead and Victorian goth, they're all valid types and everything, it's just that the majority, if not all, have no connection to the actual Goth subculture. And I can tell you now that the far majority I've seen don't even respect the roots of it.
Steampunk and metalhead are their own styles / subculture so I have no idea why they're lumped in with Goth. Cybergoth is a subculture which derives from rave, and industrial/rivethead subculture and pastel goth is a trend which originated from Tumblr in 2010. It's not the first fashion to come from there, believe me.
So the way I take it is this: if it didn't come from the original goth scene in the 70s/80s, it's not goth. There's some inspirations in there (hence how it's taken the name "goth" on the end of these) but it doesn't make it so.
And these goth types based of moods I find plain ridiculous. "Perkygoth" "Mopeygoth". The only sources I can find anywhere that validates these is that blackwaterfall.com website. And that's where I found out about them in the first place. Oh, and that "Gothttypes Wikipedia", written by normal people without any proper sources.
I honestly believe that blackwaterfall.com was something to be taken lightly, as a joke, a good bit of fun, but someone took it the opposite and actually "became" one of these.
The site says "Emo Goth" is a type, for gods sake. If you're educated, then you'll know that lumping or mixing a teenage phase (formerly a sub-genre of hardcore punk standing for emotive hardcore) and a nearly 40 year old background is a bad idea. It's like trying to mix "scene" and "hippie" together because they both wear bright colours. There's just no respect for Goth there, and adult Goths wouldn't get caught up in teenage trends anyway.
I've written so much already, and I haven't even read all of the book yet. That's why I'm going to stop because no doubt I'll want to add a whole lot more.
If anyone knows the first thing about Goth, you'll know that the song that gave birth to the subculture was Bela Lugosi's Dead by Bauhaus. Not fishnets, or leather. Sure, fashion is still an aspect of the Goth subculture, because that's the way you express yourself visually (and that's what the ignorant person sees as only being Goth; unless you have music patches and badges all over your clothes) but in the end, a Goth is still a fan of Goth rock, like a Metalhead is a fan of metal music and a Punk is a a fan of Punk rock.
By being part of the Goth subculture, we're not saying that you only have to be into Goth rock, post-punk and deathrock or that you should be a clone of every Goth out there. Because you shouldn't. You can listen to other genres of music, and like things that are non-goth as well. It's just that Goth is a subculture of people who have similar interests in fashion, music and aesthetic. So when you take out the music, and the aesthetic, you're just someone who's wearing black lacey clothes with no meaning behind them.
So from what I've seen:
Goth - A fan or performer of goth music.
Gothic - Refers only to the 12th century French architecture, and the 19th century literary genre called Gothic literature. Can also refer to ceramics, glass, and furniture, too (the furniture looks like Gothic architecture).
Dark romantic - What fans of Gothic literature are called, hence how Poe was a dark romantic.
Darkly inclined - Someone who has a dark mindset. Likes things like graveyards; candles on a cold rainy night; abandoned derelict buildings and so on. It's fine to like these things if you're Goth (I sure do) but it doesn't make someone Goth on its own so I'd kindly like to ask you to stop with this whole "Goth is (only) a mindset" type nonsense.
While the architecture and literature (plus film genre) aren't part of the subculture, there is a bit of response there. Dracula by Bram Stoker was written, and then it came out as a film adaption by the same name in 1931 (Bela Lugosi played Dracula himself) and then Bauhaus wrote about the actors death 23 years later with Bela Lugosi's Dead.
To quote from the magazine Drop Dead Magazine
"I think we can all agree that everyone would be a lot happier if they spent more money on things that matter (records) and less on things that don't (corsets, Gang of Four reunions). -Lakini Malich
If someone stopped dressing in goth fashion, would that make them suddenly not goth? At least if you were into the music as well and you dressed "normal" for the day, you'd still be goth and it's not entirely based on what types of fabric you choose to cloth your body that day.
People have this belief that "Goth" is a persona someone uses because they're bored of being themselves, they want to fit in with a group or because they're insecure. When it's not. They can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that it's just who they are and they didn't try to be part of a subculture and that their natural interests / tastes just have associations with it.
You can only get so many people out there, and more people are part of subcultures than you'd believe. They weren't trying to be anything, they're just being themselves.
Another thing I feel I've got to do is to crack down on this whole "different types of Goth" thing. I mean, there just isn't. There really is just what's come from actual goth itself; traditional goth, deathrock, and romantic goth (darkwavers). As for CyberGoth, pastel goth, steampunk, metalhead and Victorian goth, they're all valid types and everything, it's just that the majority, if not all, have no connection to the actual Goth subculture. And I can tell you now that the far majority I've seen don't even respect the roots of it.
Steampunk and metalhead are their own styles / subculture so I have no idea why they're lumped in with Goth. Cybergoth is a subculture which derives from rave, and industrial/rivethead subculture and pastel goth is a trend which originated from Tumblr in 2010. It's not the first fashion to come from there, believe me.
So the way I take it is this: if it didn't come from the original goth scene in the 70s/80s, it's not goth. There's some inspirations in there (hence how it's taken the name "goth" on the end of these) but it doesn't make it so.
And these goth types based of moods I find plain ridiculous. "Perkygoth" "Mopeygoth". The only sources I can find anywhere that validates these is that blackwaterfall.com website. And that's where I found out about them in the first place. Oh, and that "Gothttypes Wikipedia", written by normal people without any proper sources.
I honestly believe that blackwaterfall.com was something to be taken lightly, as a joke, a good bit of fun, but someone took it the opposite and actually "became" one of these.
The site says "Emo Goth" is a type, for gods sake. If you're educated, then you'll know that lumping or mixing a teenage phase (formerly a sub-genre of hardcore punk standing for emotive hardcore) and a nearly 40 year old background is a bad idea. It's like trying to mix "scene" and "hippie" together because they both wear bright colours. There's just no respect for Goth there, and adult Goths wouldn't get caught up in teenage trends anyway.
I've written so much already, and I haven't even read all of the book yet. That's why I'm going to stop because no doubt I'll want to add a whole lot more.
January 16, 2012
This book is both enjoyable and appropriate for people who aren't even very Goth at all, this non-Goth proclaims! I assume that any Goths reading this post are already interested in the book, being part of the built-in audience, but you may want to read this book if any of the following apply to you:
You know a Goth personally: Does that person you hang out with who's always wearing black kind of freak you out? Jilli's here to tell you that you have nothing to worry about, and she will even tell you ways to politely engage in conversation with this Goth and, having learned a little more about the history of Goth and the Goth subculture, you will have things to talk about!
You're not a Goth, but you see one on TV: Although I don't watch NCIS, I know that there's a popular character named Abby who's a Goth. Now you can see how subculturally accurate her portrayal is! As above, if you've been exposed to Goths without knowing much about them, the book gives you a very good explanation of why Goths are gothy. The only chapter that really started to lose my interest was the chapter on fashion since it was not Relevant to My Interests, as I have no sense of fashion, but everything else is still interesting to non-Goths.
You're not a Goth, but you're Something Else: As I suspected, a lot of the Lady of the Manners's advice applies to anyone who's "different." If you're a little left of normal for whatever reason, you likely experience some of the awkwardness, prejudices, and misconceptions that the Goth community does, and Jilli can help you deal with that sort of thing.
You're not a Goth, but you're not sure What You Are: What struck a chord with me while reading the book is how comforting it must be to be Goth. Because it affords you a template upon which to construct your own identity. It gives you an outlet to express yourself. In delving into what is a Goth and what is not a Goth, falling headlong into this whole different world of aesthetics, you start to wonder what your own system of aesthetics and identity are, even if it's not Goth. What makes you you?
You're an asshole: The Lady of the Manners's #1 Manner is "Treat everyone as you wish to be treated." Her advice about how to behave in public, at work, at clubs, with roommates, when dating, on the Internet, and in any number of other situations is sound whoever you are. It is a good reminder of the general rules of etiquette, and we could all use a refresher.
It's also good if you just want to while away a few hours learning something new and laughing all the way. Jilli writes as if she's addressing you, the reader, giving the book a readable, informal tone that lends itself to witty asides and amusing digressions. I will admit, the third-person affectation can be a bit grating at times (I've never read a book where the author referred to herself in the third person the whole time), but you get used to it. Another minor annoyance was the fact that terms like babybat and babygoth and gothling are used throughout and written in spooooky font, but there's no glossary and, although most of the spoooooky words are defined through context clues, I couldn't really figure out the distinctions between the terms since they appeared to be used interchangeably at times. Knowing exactly what age range each term encompasses, however, isn't really essential to one's enjoyment of the book. Besides, any flaws are balanced out by Pete's lovely illustrations—I particularly liked the depictions of all the different Goth fashion styles (Deathrocker, Perkygoth, Rivethead, Cybergoth, etc).
You know a Goth personally: Does that person you hang out with who's always wearing black kind of freak you out? Jilli's here to tell you that you have nothing to worry about, and she will even tell you ways to politely engage in conversation with this Goth and, having learned a little more about the history of Goth and the Goth subculture, you will have things to talk about!
You're not a Goth, but you see one on TV: Although I don't watch NCIS, I know that there's a popular character named Abby who's a Goth. Now you can see how subculturally accurate her portrayal is! As above, if you've been exposed to Goths without knowing much about them, the book gives you a very good explanation of why Goths are gothy. The only chapter that really started to lose my interest was the chapter on fashion since it was not Relevant to My Interests, as I have no sense of fashion, but everything else is still interesting to non-Goths.
You're not a Goth, but you're Something Else: As I suspected, a lot of the Lady of the Manners's advice applies to anyone who's "different." If you're a little left of normal for whatever reason, you likely experience some of the awkwardness, prejudices, and misconceptions that the Goth community does, and Jilli can help you deal with that sort of thing.
You're not a Goth, but you're not sure What You Are: What struck a chord with me while reading the book is how comforting it must be to be Goth. Because it affords you a template upon which to construct your own identity. It gives you an outlet to express yourself. In delving into what is a Goth and what is not a Goth, falling headlong into this whole different world of aesthetics, you start to wonder what your own system of aesthetics and identity are, even if it's not Goth. What makes you you?
You're an asshole: The Lady of the Manners's #1 Manner is "Treat everyone as you wish to be treated." Her advice about how to behave in public, at work, at clubs, with roommates, when dating, on the Internet, and in any number of other situations is sound whoever you are. It is a good reminder of the general rules of etiquette, and we could all use a refresher.
It's also good if you just want to while away a few hours learning something new and laughing all the way. Jilli writes as if she's addressing you, the reader, giving the book a readable, informal tone that lends itself to witty asides and amusing digressions. I will admit, the third-person affectation can be a bit grating at times (I've never read a book where the author referred to herself in the third person the whole time), but you get used to it. Another minor annoyance was the fact that terms like babybat and babygoth and gothling are used throughout and written in spooooky font, but there's no glossary and, although most of the spoooooky words are defined through context clues, I couldn't really figure out the distinctions between the terms since they appeared to be used interchangeably at times. Knowing exactly what age range each term encompasses, however, isn't really essential to one's enjoyment of the book. Besides, any flaws are balanced out by Pete's lovely illustrations—I particularly liked the depictions of all the different Goth fashion styles (Deathrocker, Perkygoth, Rivethead, Cybergoth, etc).
March 31, 2011
Many have stated that this book repeats itself and a lot of it can really come down to common sense. However, some people don't realise that being kind to people on the street also means being kind to people at clubs, music concerts, in the shops, at work and online. And common sense, as the adage goes, isn't really that common. I will accept that Jillian Venters repeats herself a bit, but sometimes it's necessary.
A lot of this book is also just general tips on manners and kindness. I will admit I think Venters was trying to pad the book out a bit, which I think is fair enough. But there are some goths who do think they are a bit above it all and haughtier-than-though and could do with some tips on how to be nicer.
But this book is quaint, cute and I do like the Lady of the Manners/Miss Manners attitude she takes to it. And no, I don't think Venters really sees herself as above everyone. I believe it's just a persona, folks.
A lot of this book is also just general tips on manners and kindness. I will admit I think Venters was trying to pad the book out a bit, which I think is fair enough. But there are some goths who do think they are a bit above it all and haughtier-than-though and could do with some tips on how to be nicer.
But this book is quaint, cute and I do like the Lady of the Manners/Miss Manners attitude she takes to it. And no, I don't think Venters really sees herself as above everyone. I believe it's just a persona, folks.
July 15, 2009
Jillian is a friend of a friend, and while I've never met her, I do remember her from back in my newsgroup days, back on alt.gothic.fashion. I always thought she was delightful and charming then, and this book proves that ten years hasn't changed anything!
Jillian's book is well-written, full of great advice, and great for both goths and non-goths. I wish I'd had a copy of it to hand to my parents when I became all morbid!
Jillian's book is well-written, full of great advice, and great for both goths and non-goths. I wish I'd had a copy of it to hand to my parents when I became all morbid!
February 23, 2021
Younger me adored this book. I'm pretty sure I'd still like it today. But back then, I was pretty new to the goth subculture. I was still in middle school at the time of reading it. Back when I was desperate to make my mark. To show people who I was. That I was different. But couldn't because I was forced to comply with a strict school dress code of polo shirts and slacks. My babybat days began with trying to dress those uniforms up in a rather hideous sort of way that I cringe upon now. But hey, we all start somewhere.
Back then, I was introduced to the goth world via Tumblr and photobucket. Remember that website? And as a result, I only really saw it through fashion. I wasn't aware that the goth subculture was more than just pretty victorian goth gowns (that was the trend in goth at the time) and liking "dark" things that most people thought was weird. Then I discovered Jillian Venters on Tumblr. Discovered this book. And learned for myself that it was much more than that. Of course, it took several more years before I outgrew my babybat days and discovered just how cool and important the music was too. So I'm not entirely sure the book helped. But I thought it did. I felt like I was so educated. And that's not a slam to this book. I hardly remember the content anymore, although the music vs fashion debate is definitely still lodged in my memory. But I imagine if I revisited it, I'd appreciate the content all the more. Goth is not conformity or uniformity. This isn't a how-to guide to be goth and naturally some parts won't resonate and some parts will. This is only one perspective on what it means to be a goth. But hey, it was helpful. I imagine it still is. And to this day, I adore Jillian Venters. So let's give her and Gothic Charm School some credit for opening up a young kid's world, showing her that she can be different and that that's not a crime.
I'd say if you're not familiar with the subculture but are curious about it, this might be a book to look into. It might teach you some things, show you some perspective.
Back then, I was introduced to the goth world via Tumblr and photobucket. Remember that website? And as a result, I only really saw it through fashion. I wasn't aware that the goth subculture was more than just pretty victorian goth gowns (that was the trend in goth at the time) and liking "dark" things that most people thought was weird. Then I discovered Jillian Venters on Tumblr. Discovered this book. And learned for myself that it was much more than that. Of course, it took several more years before I outgrew my babybat days and discovered just how cool and important the music was too. So I'm not entirely sure the book helped. But I thought it did. I felt like I was so educated. And that's not a slam to this book. I hardly remember the content anymore, although the music vs fashion debate is definitely still lodged in my memory. But I imagine if I revisited it, I'd appreciate the content all the more. Goth is not conformity or uniformity. This isn't a how-to guide to be goth and naturally some parts won't resonate and some parts will. This is only one perspective on what it means to be a goth. But hey, it was helpful. I imagine it still is. And to this day, I adore Jillian Venters. So let's give her and Gothic Charm School some credit for opening up a young kid's world, showing her that she can be different and that that's not a crime.
I'd say if you're not familiar with the subculture but are curious about it, this might be a book to look into. It might teach you some things, show you some perspective.
March 2, 2020
I've been doing some pretty heavy lifting recently (the death penalty in the US, the fall of Mosul and the IS "Caliphate"), so I wanted something that was a lighthearted and entertaining read. I came across the author on YouTube a while back, and I was curious to see how the "Goth" subculture has changed, or endured, since I was in high school, back in the last century (!). I have a Gothic streak (honestly, I hate the term "Goth," personally; it's too "trendy" and flippant for me) a mile wide, albeit one which is carefully concealed, so I'm just curious about the material.
I think this had a lot of potential, and I get that it's supposed to focus on the etiquette aspects of being Gothic, but I think there was a lot of lost opportunity. I also agree with several of the other reviewers who have likewise reported that the book is highly repetitive and talks a lot, but doesn't say much. I think the current content could have been condensed into one or two chapters on actual etiquette, but it could have gone far beyond that. This could even have been something of an "instruction manual," discussing some "how to's" of being Gothic. I also get that there are many, many subcultures within the umbrella-term "Gothic" subculture, but there are certainly some common elements.
I would also have really liked more of a history, or, at least, incorporating some of the history of the subculture into the material, which would give the added benefit of understanding why this particular group of people gravitate toward particular cultural elements. A more in-depth discussion of the types of things Gothic-identifying people enjoy and are passionate about, and why, to me, would have been far preferable, as opposed to an almost incessant plea to be nice to them. Actually humanizing these complex people would have been far more effective in terms of making them less "scary" and more fascinating (and, hence, worthy of courtesy and respect, which seems the author's primary purpose) than just reiterating for several chapters: yes, they dress weird, but please just be nice to them.
For example: Gothic literature, something I'm passionate about and most people who identify with this subculture are as well. What are some of the most well-known works, and what do actual Gothic persons think about them? Why do they identify so strongly with particular elements? In fact, that's really the missing dimension overall: what ACTUAL Gothic people think about anything. It may not have been the point of the book, but there are very few instances of real people actually being represented. I think I would have featured this type material front and center, because it really adds the highly important human dimension. For example, if people are into Edgar Allen Poe, or Algernon Blackwood, or M.R. James, or Mary Shelley, for that matter: why not have a representative talk about their work (briefly) and why it it appeals to persons who identify with this subculture. The same goes for art, music, food/cuisine, decor (it goes SO far beyond than just bats and skulls).
I'm going to include below a passage from the editor of a volume of Late Victorian Gothic Tales, Roger Luckhurst, who hit the proverbial nail on the head. It's also why I think discussing some of the history behind the Gothic subculture would have enhanced this book greatly. To sum up generally, Gothic involves, at its deepest levels, transgression: transgression of the boundaries between life and death, social mores (i.e., its embrace of the morbid), and, particularly, dress and outward appearance, which typically involves rather outlandish elements representing a throwback to the nineteenth century - As Luckhurst states, profoundly, "the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies."
I did enjoy it, but as I stated above, I think it was something of a lost opportunity. Even the etiquette material would have been greatly enhanced by some real-world examples and experiences. It didn't need to be a history book, but I think I was disappointed that it didn't have more depth. I know there are other books that do, but, I think I was hoping for something more.
-------------------------------------
"The Gothic repeatedly stages moments of transgression because it is obsessed with establishing and policing borders, delineating strict categories of being. The enduring icons of the Gothic are entities that breach the absolute distinctions between life and death (ghosts, vampires, mummies, zombies, Frankenstein's creature) or between human and beast (werewolves and other animalistic regressions, the creatures spliced together by Dr. Moreau) or which threaten the integrity of the individual ego and the exercise of will by merging with another (Jeckyll and Hyde, the persecuting double, the Mesmerist who holds victims in his or her power). Ostensibly, conclusions reinstate fixed borders, re-secure autonomy, and destroy any intolerable occupants of these twilight zones.
"The most successful monsters overdetermine these transgressions to become, in Judith Halberstam's evocative phrase, 'technologies of monstrosity' that condense and process different and even contradictory anxieties about category and border. Some critics hold that the genre speaks to universal, primitive taboos about the very foundational elements of what it means to be human, yet the ebb and flow of the Gothic across the modern period invites more historical readings. Indeed, one of the principal border breaches in the Gothic is history itself- the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies.
We can think about this in fairly abstract ways: the ghost, for instance, is structurally a stubborn trace of the past that persists into the present and demands a historical understanding if it is to be laid to rest. Similarly, Sigmund Freud defined the feeling of the uncanny as the shiver of realizing that modern reason has merely repressed rather than replaced primitive superstition. 'All supposedly educated people have ceased to believe officially that the dead can become visible as spirits', yet Freud suspected that at times 'almost all of us think as savages do on this topic.' This return to pre-modern beliefs was itself the product of thinking of human subjectivity as a history of developmental layers that could be stripped away in an instant of dread, returning us to a 'savage' state.
I think this had a lot of potential, and I get that it's supposed to focus on the etiquette aspects of being Gothic, but I think there was a lot of lost opportunity. I also agree with several of the other reviewers who have likewise reported that the book is highly repetitive and talks a lot, but doesn't say much. I think the current content could have been condensed into one or two chapters on actual etiquette, but it could have gone far beyond that. This could even have been something of an "instruction manual," discussing some "how to's" of being Gothic. I also get that there are many, many subcultures within the umbrella-term "Gothic" subculture, but there are certainly some common elements.
I would also have really liked more of a history, or, at least, incorporating some of the history of the subculture into the material, which would give the added benefit of understanding why this particular group of people gravitate toward particular cultural elements. A more in-depth discussion of the types of things Gothic-identifying people enjoy and are passionate about, and why, to me, would have been far preferable, as opposed to an almost incessant plea to be nice to them. Actually humanizing these complex people would have been far more effective in terms of making them less "scary" and more fascinating (and, hence, worthy of courtesy and respect, which seems the author's primary purpose) than just reiterating for several chapters: yes, they dress weird, but please just be nice to them.
For example: Gothic literature, something I'm passionate about and most people who identify with this subculture are as well. What are some of the most well-known works, and what do actual Gothic persons think about them? Why do they identify so strongly with particular elements? In fact, that's really the missing dimension overall: what ACTUAL Gothic people think about anything. It may not have been the point of the book, but there are very few instances of real people actually being represented. I think I would have featured this type material front and center, because it really adds the highly important human dimension. For example, if people are into Edgar Allen Poe, or Algernon Blackwood, or M.R. James, or Mary Shelley, for that matter: why not have a representative talk about their work (briefly) and why it it appeals to persons who identify with this subculture. The same goes for art, music, food/cuisine, decor (it goes SO far beyond than just bats and skulls).
I'm going to include below a passage from the editor of a volume of Late Victorian Gothic Tales, Roger Luckhurst, who hit the proverbial nail on the head. It's also why I think discussing some of the history behind the Gothic subculture would have enhanced this book greatly. To sum up generally, Gothic involves, at its deepest levels, transgression: transgression of the boundaries between life and death, social mores (i.e., its embrace of the morbid), and, particularly, dress and outward appearance, which typically involves rather outlandish elements representing a throwback to the nineteenth century - As Luckhurst states, profoundly, "the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies."
I did enjoy it, but as I stated above, I think it was something of a lost opportunity. Even the etiquette material would have been greatly enhanced by some real-world examples and experiences. It didn't need to be a history book, but I think I was disappointed that it didn't have more depth. I know there are other books that do, but, I think I was hoping for something more.
-------------------------------------
"The Gothic repeatedly stages moments of transgression because it is obsessed with establishing and policing borders, delineating strict categories of being. The enduring icons of the Gothic are entities that breach the absolute distinctions between life and death (ghosts, vampires, mummies, zombies, Frankenstein's creature) or between human and beast (werewolves and other animalistic regressions, the creatures spliced together by Dr. Moreau) or which threaten the integrity of the individual ego and the exercise of will by merging with another (Jeckyll and Hyde, the persecuting double, the Mesmerist who holds victims in his or her power). Ostensibly, conclusions reinstate fixed borders, re-secure autonomy, and destroy any intolerable occupants of these twilight zones.
"The most successful monsters overdetermine these transgressions to become, in Judith Halberstam's evocative phrase, 'technologies of monstrosity' that condense and process different and even contradictory anxieties about category and border. Some critics hold that the genre speaks to universal, primitive taboos about the very foundational elements of what it means to be human, yet the ebb and flow of the Gothic across the modern period invites more historical readings. Indeed, one of the principal border breaches in the Gothic is history itself- the insidious leakage of the pre-modern past into the skeptical, allegedly enlightened present. The Gothic, Robert Mighall suggests, can be thought of as a way of relating to the past and its legacies.
We can think about this in fairly abstract ways: the ghost, for instance, is structurally a stubborn trace of the past that persists into the present and demands a historical understanding if it is to be laid to rest. Similarly, Sigmund Freud defined the feeling of the uncanny as the shiver of realizing that modern reason has merely repressed rather than replaced primitive superstition. 'All supposedly educated people have ceased to believe officially that the dead can become visible as spirits', yet Freud suspected that at times 'almost all of us think as savages do on this topic.' This return to pre-modern beliefs was itself the product of thinking of human subjectivity as a history of developmental layers that could be stripped away in an instant of dread, returning us to a 'savage' state.
April 10, 2010
A silly little read I picked up randomly in my local library. The topics address in the book really did not need 236 pages to be explained. 1 or 2 pages would have sufficed - at the most - nor did the topics need to be explained repeatedly in every chapter.
As someone of the Gothic persuasion, most of the content qualified as a 'Well, duh!' reaction.
As someone of the Gothic persuasion, most of the content qualified as a 'Well, duh!' reaction.
August 18, 2016
I know some people don't really like/agree with this book for some odd reason, but I really enjoyed it. Jillian Venters is a gothic rolemodel for goths of all ages and she writes out this helpful,insightful guide to all who are goth or enjoy goth.
November 25, 2016
Cute book - I came across a copy at the local used bookstore, otherwise I probably wouldn't have sought it out, since I'm guessing most of the material is more or less online. But a fun read since I have a lot of friends who run in gothy circles and am a fan of the music and fashion.
July 30, 2009
Although much of this was common sense ettiquete, and preached to the Gothy little choir of my heart, I enjoyed this. Especially the constant referals to her readers as "Snarklings"!
April 4, 2012
This book is so much fun. Makes my inner and outer Goth smile. It deals with history, fashion, and etiquette.
January 17, 2019
Only tangenitally related to goth culture, this seems to be more of a guide to the kind of basic social skills that most people have learned by the time they're 12.
July 1, 2009
Simply put, this should be highly recommended, if not required reading not just for goths, but also for anyone curious about the goth community, whether because they are personally interested or because they have an acquaintance, friend, or loved one (spouse, significant other, boy- or girlfriend, relative, child, or secret crush) who counts themselves among the spooky set.
Miss Manners' more somber-dressed and bat-festooned doppelgänger, the Lady of the Manners, has adapted from and expanded upon columns from her long-running website and assembled a delightful collection of advice for the goth and goth-friendly. Covering everything from the basics ("The difference between being a Goth, a NotAGoth, and not being a Goth yourself but being Goth-friendly") to social etiquette both online ("The Internet is not Real Life (with an aside about the Great Flounce-Off)") and off ("What to do when people ask why you're dressed like that") to parenting ("How to show support to your babygoth or babybat without relinquishing the keys to the hearse, and everything you need to know to Not Freak Out"), Gothic Charm School quickly becomes, in many small and a few not-so-small ways, the very "Goth handbook" that the Lady of the Manners so often reminds us does not exist.
I can't go back in time twenty years and hand this book to my teenaged self (more's the pity), but I canquite heartily recommend this to both old and new members of the goth community, as well as those around them who just might not quite get it.
Following are a couple of short excerpts, collecting some of the Lady of the Manners own recommendations for further reading:
Babybat-friendly books the Lady of the Manners recommends:
* The Vampire Kisses series by Ellen Schreiber
* A Series of Unfortunate Events (beginning with The Bad Beginning) by Lemony Snicket
* The Scary Godmother storybooks by Jill Thompson
* Coraline by Neil Gaiman
* The Wolves of Willoughby Chase by Joan Aiken
* The Spiderwick Chronicles (beginning with The Field Guide) by Holly Black
* The Witches by Roald Dahl
* The Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper
* Bizenghast Volume 1 by M. Alice LeGrow
* The Wee Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky A Discworld Novel, and Wintersmith by Terry Pratchett
Thirteen of the Lady of the Manners's favorite vampire books, in no particular order:
* Drácula by Bram Stoker
* Anno Dracula by Kim Newman
* Those Who Hunt the Night and Traveling with the Dead by Barbara Hambly
* Interview With the Vampire and The Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice
* The Delicate Dependency by Michael Talbot
* The Blood Opera Sequence (Dark Dance, Personal Darkness Blood Opera Sequence 2, and Darkness, I) by Tanith Lee
* Lost Souls by Poppy Z. Brite
* Hotel Transylvania by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro
* The Vampire Kisses series by Ellen Schreiber
* Gothique A Vampire Novel by Kyle Marffin
* Bloodsucking Fiends by Christopher Moore
* The Stress of Her Regard by Tim Powers
* Sunshine by Robin McKinley
Recommendations listed in "The roots of Goth's dark garden"
* Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë
* Drácula by Bram Stoker
* Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
* Anything by Edgar Allan Poe
* The Sandman Vol. 1 Preludes and Nocturnes (and the rest of the series) by Neil Gaiman
* Anything by H.P. Lovecraft
* Any of the illustrated works of Edward Gorey
* Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury
* Lost Souls by Poppy Z. Brite
Miss Manners' more somber-dressed and bat-festooned doppelgänger, the Lady of the Manners, has adapted from and expanded upon columns from her long-running website and assembled a delightful collection of advice for the goth and goth-friendly. Covering everything from the basics ("The difference between being a Goth, a NotAGoth, and not being a Goth yourself but being Goth-friendly") to social etiquette both online ("The Internet is not Real Life (with an aside about the Great Flounce-Off)") and off ("What to do when people ask why you're dressed like that") to parenting ("How to show support to your babygoth or babybat without relinquishing the keys to the hearse, and everything you need to know to Not Freak Out"), Gothic Charm School quickly becomes, in many small and a few not-so-small ways, the very "Goth handbook" that the Lady of the Manners so often reminds us does not exist.
I can't go back in time twenty years and hand this book to my teenaged self (more's the pity), but I canquite heartily recommend this to both old and new members of the goth community, as well as those around them who just might not quite get it.
Following are a couple of short excerpts, collecting some of the Lady of the Manners own recommendations for further reading:
Babybat-friendly books the Lady of the Manners recommends:
* The Vampire Kisses series by Ellen Schreiber
* A Series of Unfortunate Events (beginning with The Bad Beginning) by Lemony Snicket
* The Scary Godmother storybooks by Jill Thompson
* Coraline by Neil Gaiman
* The Wolves of Willoughby Chase by Joan Aiken
* The Spiderwick Chronicles (beginning with The Field Guide) by Holly Black
* The Witches by Roald Dahl
* The Dark Is Rising series by Susan Cooper
* Bizenghast Volume 1 by M. Alice LeGrow
* The Wee Free Men, A Hat Full of Sky A Discworld Novel, and Wintersmith by Terry Pratchett
Thirteen of the Lady of the Manners's favorite vampire books, in no particular order:
* Drácula by Bram Stoker
* Anno Dracula by Kim Newman
* Those Who Hunt the Night and Traveling with the Dead by Barbara Hambly
* Interview With the Vampire and The Vampire Lestat by Anne Rice
* The Delicate Dependency by Michael Talbot
* The Blood Opera Sequence (Dark Dance, Personal Darkness Blood Opera Sequence 2, and Darkness, I) by Tanith Lee
* Lost Souls by Poppy Z. Brite
* Hotel Transylvania by Chelsea Quinn Yarbro
* The Vampire Kisses series by Ellen Schreiber
* Gothique A Vampire Novel by Kyle Marffin
* Bloodsucking Fiends by Christopher Moore
* The Stress of Her Regard by Tim Powers
* Sunshine by Robin McKinley
Recommendations listed in "The roots of Goth's dark garden"
* Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë
* Drácula by Bram Stoker
* Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
* Anything by Edgar Allan Poe
* The Sandman Vol. 1 Preludes and Nocturnes (and the rest of the series) by Neil Gaiman
* Anything by H.P. Lovecraft
* Any of the illustrated works of Edward Gorey
* Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury
* Lost Souls by Poppy Z. Brite
July 26, 2023
Take it from a goth who's been in the goth scene since 2017. To any baby bat/person interested in the goth subculture, skip this book. Venters comes off as elitist, hypocritical and confused-- perpetuating only the worst gothic stereotypes. Her cynical demeanor infantilizes the reader (referring to them as a "snarkling") while she deems herself "the Lady of the Manners" unironically. This lady needs to find some manners.
Venters spouts dangerous misinformation that will do more harm than good. Gothic Charm School boils down to one part basic subculture history lesson and nine parts worst social etiquette advice. Some of her tidbits include outing queer people so that there are "no surprises" (90), making sure that you have the "proper physique" to dress in goth attire lest you become an "object of ridicule" (98) (as if being goth is only for people who are stick-thin), pursuing potential partners after they rejected you because they only rejected you "for the sake of pride" (119) and physical confrontations to break up with abusive partners (119). She often incorporates antisemitic references in her work, most notably the "Secret Goth Cabal" (cabal is used in reference to its antisemitic origins) which one: doesn't exist and two: is mentioned in every chapter. She also demonstrates ableist views towards those with psychosis when she calls on the reader to encourage delusions "in the most exaggerated manner possible" (34).
Between random font changes, nonsensical syntax and capitalizations, shoehorned references, and plentiful illustrations to keep the reader engaged (I use engaged loosely), her bratty attitude doesn't make for an enjoyable read. She's visibly uninformed towards other subcultures that she mentions (including emos and otherkin). She talks about how much she despises "cliche" goths and tries to change her personal cliches so that she can be "not like other girls" but she spends all of chapter five recommending cliche goth media. You can't admit to mocking goths for reading Interview with the Vampire on page 95 and then recommend reading Interview on page 101.
In the rare instances Gothic Charm School talks about the gothic subculture further than a shout out to The Lost Boys, Venters can't free herself from her elitist bubble. She can't decide to what degree is "goth-ness" acceptable and to what degree makes her roll her eyes. She additionally can't decide if she wants to encourage or deter her reader from reaching that level of "gothic cringe." When Gothic Charm School becomes a self-help book, the advice offered is painful to anyone who actually escaped their coffin and touched grass. Goths aren't zoo animals, we're predominantly normal people. Just treat us like how you would treat anyone else. The only thing that makes us different from "preps" is our black wardrobe and our penchant for literature about sad dead guys.
Venters spouts dangerous misinformation that will do more harm than good. Gothic Charm School boils down to one part basic subculture history lesson and nine parts worst social etiquette advice. Some of her tidbits include outing queer people so that there are "no surprises" (90), making sure that you have the "proper physique" to dress in goth attire lest you become an "object of ridicule" (98) (as if being goth is only for people who are stick-thin), pursuing potential partners after they rejected you because they only rejected you "for the sake of pride" (119) and physical confrontations to break up with abusive partners (119). She often incorporates antisemitic references in her work, most notably the "Secret Goth Cabal" (cabal is used in reference to its antisemitic origins) which one: doesn't exist and two: is mentioned in every chapter. She also demonstrates ableist views towards those with psychosis when she calls on the reader to encourage delusions "in the most exaggerated manner possible" (34).
Between random font changes, nonsensical syntax and capitalizations, shoehorned references, and plentiful illustrations to keep the reader engaged (I use engaged loosely), her bratty attitude doesn't make for an enjoyable read. She's visibly uninformed towards other subcultures that she mentions (including emos and otherkin). She talks about how much she despises "cliche" goths and tries to change her personal cliches so that she can be "not like other girls" but she spends all of chapter five recommending cliche goth media. You can't admit to mocking goths for reading Interview with the Vampire on page 95 and then recommend reading Interview on page 101.
In the rare instances Gothic Charm School talks about the gothic subculture further than a shout out to The Lost Boys, Venters can't free herself from her elitist bubble. She can't decide to what degree is "goth-ness" acceptable and to what degree makes her roll her eyes. She additionally can't decide if she wants to encourage or deter her reader from reaching that level of "gothic cringe." When Gothic Charm School becomes a self-help book, the advice offered is painful to anyone who actually escaped their coffin and touched grass. Goths aren't zoo animals, we're predominantly normal people. Just treat us like how you would treat anyone else. The only thing that makes us different from "preps" is our black wardrobe and our penchant for literature about sad dead guys.
April 2, 2018
Out of the few books relating to the goth subculture, I found this one to be fairly decent.
This is book is written to help those who aren't goth but interested in learning more about the subculture or help educate them better to show them that there is nothing to be afraid of, as well for those who are goth but need advice on how to deal with the non-goths whole seem to look down on and hold negative views on the goth subculture.
The author seems more upbeat and entertaining, which makes it much more fun to read instead of feel like a chore to get through the whole book.
There are many different sections in the book (including a section for parents and babybats). There are sections for how to deal with roommates, how to build a basic day to day wardrobe, outfits that is appropriate for job interviews, dealing with dress cods, encourages people learn different skills (such as sewing and tailoring clothing. Goths at one time would buy cheap clothing at thrift shops and alter them a bit), what to look for in quality clothing. Advice on relationships, goth club etiquette. Some of these things should be common sense really.
I say it is more a behavior and advice guide than about the history of the subculture (so if you are looking for a book that goes a bit deeper into the history of the subculture, you will have to look elsewhere. I heard some of Voltaire's books are pretty good and humorous when it comes to discussing about the subculture; unfortunately they are bit harder to find unless you order them online and a bit pricier as well because of that); but it is still a handy book overall and it does touch up on the subculture a bit as well.
I would rate it higher if it did go a bit deeper into the subculture or perhaps gave some tutorials for making some altered clothing, jewelry etc....and sometimes it did seem like she repeated herself a bit too much (I get is meant to help reinforce the whole being polite to others which is important but did get a bit tiring after awhile).
All and all, the book was a good read and recommend that everyone should have a copy as some advice is really valuable resource.
This is book is written to help those who aren't goth but interested in learning more about the subculture or help educate them better to show them that there is nothing to be afraid of, as well for those who are goth but need advice on how to deal with the non-goths whole seem to look down on and hold negative views on the goth subculture.
The author seems more upbeat and entertaining, which makes it much more fun to read instead of feel like a chore to get through the whole book.
There are many different sections in the book (including a section for parents and babybats). There are sections for how to deal with roommates, how to build a basic day to day wardrobe, outfits that is appropriate for job interviews, dealing with dress cods, encourages people learn different skills (such as sewing and tailoring clothing. Goths at one time would buy cheap clothing at thrift shops and alter them a bit), what to look for in quality clothing. Advice on relationships, goth club etiquette. Some of these things should be common sense really.
I say it is more a behavior and advice guide than about the history of the subculture (so if you are looking for a book that goes a bit deeper into the history of the subculture, you will have to look elsewhere. I heard some of Voltaire's books are pretty good and humorous when it comes to discussing about the subculture; unfortunately they are bit harder to find unless you order them online and a bit pricier as well because of that); but it is still a handy book overall and it does touch up on the subculture a bit as well.
I would rate it higher if it did go a bit deeper into the subculture or perhaps gave some tutorials for making some altered clothing, jewelry etc....and sometimes it did seem like she repeated herself a bit too much (I get is meant to help reinforce the whole being polite to others which is important but did get a bit tiring after awhile).
All and all, the book was a good read and recommend that everyone should have a copy as some advice is really valuable resource.
May 3, 2021
So - this is NOT a comprehensive overview/survey of the ever-expanding & -changing Goth music scene (such as Mick Mercer’s “21st Century Goth” is, or was). Nor a style guide. It’s mostly an etiquette guide for Goths, or people who want to understand Goths. Which is exactly what I expected from reading the back cover.
Covers misconceptions, cliches etc. & how to deal with them. What to expect re. people’s possible reactions should you decide you want to go down the Goth route - and good vs. bad reasons for wanting to do so. Club/scene etiquette; work/family occasions etc. Does cover fashion (including assembling your own basic Goth wardrobe), music, literature & the roots of Goth(ic) culture. The lists of artists/authors etc. are brief, it just gives you a starting-point. Plus a brief section on the future of Goth/some of the sub-groups within Goth culture & other sub-cultures that have, maybe, an affinity with Goth whilst not being Goth.
For anyone wanting to seriously get into the Goth scene, this is never going to be your only reference-point & I don’t think it was ever intended as such - it doesn’t read that way. Ditto re. exploring Gothic literature, films or music. Just a darkly humorous guide to getting started & how to behave (like a decent human not a jerk, basically), that makes some serious points whilst not taking itself or the whole Goth scene too seriously.
Covers misconceptions, cliches etc. & how to deal with them. What to expect re. people’s possible reactions should you decide you want to go down the Goth route - and good vs. bad reasons for wanting to do so. Club/scene etiquette; work/family occasions etc. Does cover fashion (including assembling your own basic Goth wardrobe), music, literature & the roots of Goth(ic) culture. The lists of artists/authors etc. are brief, it just gives you a starting-point. Plus a brief section on the future of Goth/some of the sub-groups within Goth culture & other sub-cultures that have, maybe, an affinity with Goth whilst not being Goth.
For anyone wanting to seriously get into the Goth scene, this is never going to be your only reference-point & I don’t think it was ever intended as such - it doesn’t read that way. Ditto re. exploring Gothic literature, films or music. Just a darkly humorous guide to getting started & how to behave (like a decent human not a jerk, basically), that makes some serious points whilst not taking itself or the whole Goth scene too seriously.
January 1, 2022
It's a good first time baby bat read if you wish to hear her quite well established wishes of what the upstanding goth ought to be. Which was influenced by the fact that we are equated to every darkly inclined nay-do-gooder like the horrible Columbine incident. However the book does step into the "narrow box" of defining Goths in many capacities that aren't helping with selling the fact that we are after all an alternative subculture that needs to evolve to survive. Would still recommend it as a good read.
January 30, 2018
As a Seattle native, it's impossible to miss Jillian Venters' beautiful gothic Victorian dresses at local conventions and gothy events. The few times I spoke with her, she was nothing but sweet, kind, and modest - making her the perfect goth rolemodel and author for Gothic Charm School. Bubbly, playfully snarky, and - of course - polite, Gothic Charm School is a great book for those new or interested in the goth scene, or for anyone looking for a fun and interesting read.
September 16, 2020
I hate giving less then 4 starts especially when it wasnt a bad book. The refrences are dated but its still a really cute book. Yes, its a bit repetitive, but I do appriciate it for what it is. I would have liked some more old fashioned (victorian) mannerisms and social codes incorporated perhaps in a more modern context. Everyone needs a reminder to watch the snark and keep an open mind. Even though it seems like a no brainer, I did need to remember that much.
September 21, 2022
So many people could really benefit from this. And not everybody intends to be rude - a lot of people genuinely don't understand social cues, so this is a gentle, delightful way to learn how to act. Really anyone could benefit from it, this is just goth-specific (e.g., "don't do interpretative dance in a club with a lit cigarette in your hand for effect"). This is good enough that you could enjoy it more than once.
June 14, 2017
im tempted to give it 2.5 stars but there wasnt really that much /wrong/ with it. i found myself rolling my eyes a lot but that was more to do with me as a person. i liked a couple of chapters but wasn't that interested in the rest. unlike most people i actually do like the way she refers to herself in the third person
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February 10, 2018Truly Essential
Jillian is amazing. As a longtime blog reader, I've been a fan since the early days, and am so grateful this book exists. It is a delightful, sane template of polite behavior that encourages spooks and non-shpooks to co-exist in peace and civility.
Bless you, Lady.
Jillian is amazing. As a longtime blog reader, I've been a fan since the early days, and am so grateful this book exists. It is a delightful, sane template of polite behavior that encourages spooks and non-shpooks to co-exist in peace and civility.
Bless you, Lady.
January 29, 2021
I've always been fond of the gothic fashion and culture. So I figured why not give this book a go? Overall I thought that it was pretty cute and I found The Lady Of Manners to be a bubbly, eccentric, and fun narrator. I think that this is a nice read to help people get a sense of etiquette when talking to goths & and its a nice little guide to help new goths get into the scene.
February 25, 2018
A little repetitive at times but it didn't phase me. It was fun, informative, exploratory and well put together. I like the sarcasm in the authors voice too, I think some may confuse it as sharply critical but it's not. She's just blunt and playful. Would love another!
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