Talk:Khomeinism

This spin-off of the Khomeini article is the work of Savakilian and myself (so far). I've put a fair amount of time into its creation and feel there is enough importance and detail to justify this article's existance. --Leroy65X 18:43, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Criticism and suggestions

Background:Shia political thought

You've summarized what I had written as theological and historical background.[1]. It could be reasonable if there were a separate article about this issue. So I propose making that article or write whatever I had written completely. --Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely. As I was summarizing the background, I thought, "This is was too long for background to an article on one man, but maybe Savivilian can make it into another article." --Leroy65X 14:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Governance

How can a reader understand why Khomeini changed his idea about legitimacy of monarchy. The reasons of the transformation should be added.--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Sure but Khomeini did not say "I changed my mind because ..." He said "The governance of the faqih is a subject that in itself elicits immediate assent and has little need of demonstration, for anyone who has come general awareness of the beliefs and ordinances of Islam will unhesitatingly give his assent to the principle of the governance of the faqih as soon as he encounters it; he will recognize it as necessary and self-evident.

so speculatation of his reasons may bee problematic. --Leroy65X 14:55, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Fiqh

We can add the effect of time and place on Ijtihad as the third issue. (see:Ja'fari jurisprudence)--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Unity of the Ummah

Khomeini made a lot of efforts to establish unity among Ummah. Interestingly, during the early days of the Revolution, Khomeini endeavored to bridge the gap between Shiites and Sunnis by forbidding criticizing the Caliphs who preceded Ali — an issue that causes much animosity between the two sects. Also, he declared it permissible for Shiites to pray behind Sunni imams.[2].

He declared The unity week and International Day of Quds--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:21, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Sure

Martyrdom

This part looks like irrelevant:

Ironically and tragically, in the last few years, thousands of Muslims, particularly Shia, have been victims, not just initiators, of martyrdom operations, with many civilians and even mosques and shrines being targeted, particularly in Iraq. Wahhabi extremist Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi has quoted Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab urging his followers to kill Shi'a of Iraq.[33] In 2007 some of the Shia ulema have responded by declared suicide bombing haram:

"حتي كساني كه با انتحار مي‌‏آيند و مي‌‏زنند عده‌‏اي را مي‌‏كشند، آن هم به عنوان عمليات انتحاري، اينها در قعر جهنم هستند" "Even those who kill people with suicide bombing, these shall meet the flames of hell."--Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Don't agree. see section with Sina Kardar below

References

Re:Political thought and legacy of Khomeini

Thanks for your note. I am very happy that you started this article. I went through the article quickly. If you are interested in my feedback, here is what I think:

Thanks for your feedback. I'm pretty busy but I'll try to reply to your points.

A.

I think the section on martyrdom needs to be rewritten: 1. More than half of the section is not about Iran while Khomeini was Iran's leader. 2. Khomeini did not introduce any new definition of martyrdom. 3. Martyrdom is not suicide bombing. 4. Martyrdom in Iranian literature is not necessarily a religious concept. Any soldier who dies while defending his country will be considered "Martyr", even if the person is not muslim.

I think the maryrdom section is very important. THe clearing of minefields by baseej martyrs was a big part of the Iran Iraq war and certainly unique one. Yes other country's are mentioned but this is an article about the Imam's legacy not his legacy in Iran. Khomeini wanted Islamic government to spread throughout the Islamic world. My point is that however unintended and grotesque the connection between Khomeini's promotion of martyrdom against mlitary targets in Iraq and the intihari attacks on Shia (primarily in Iraq) there is a connection, a documented connection. Pasdaran helped, trained, aided Lebonese Shia Islamists. Lebonese Shia Islamists then had tremndous success in expelling superior military forces of US, France MNF and Israel from Lebanon. Bin Laden is on record pointing to these tremendous successes as examples he would follow, and other Muslims should also. And "Al-Qaeda in the land of the two rivers" is on record calling for and bragging about attacks on Shia civilians in "martyrdom operations."

5. Suicide martyrdom, was not practiced nor recommended during Iran-Iraq war. There were some very few occasions where some soldiers were trapped in mine field and some soldiers needed to sacrifice themselves for the life of others. I think that's the highest level of humanity that a person sacrifices himself to give life to hundred other humans. Please do not mix this with terrorism. 6. In today 's Iran, any person like a teacher, a doctor, a lawyer who dies due to an accident in the work-place will be considered a martyr. For example a notable teacher who dies due to a car accident while going to school would be considered martyr. 7. Martyrdom is nowadays smells like terrorism. But the word as used in Iran refers to concepts that are praised in all societies under other names. 8. Iranian soldiers did not jump on mines in order to win the war! They were forced to do it to minimize the number of victims. 9. Iranian soldiers who died for the sake of Iranian nation during Iran-Iraq war are well respected in Iranian society no matter they are secular or religious.

Agreed martyrdom may have no connection with "martyrdom operations" (intihari) whatsoever. Agreed many in the West many may not hear the word "martyrdom" these days except in connection with intihari attacks. Agreed Iran (or Iranian military leadership or whatever) felt clearing minefields with volunteers was necessary militarily.

The idea that Khomeini expanded the definition of marytyrdom is not mine but Brumberg's. But I cannot help but notice the great publicity the baseej clearing of minefields got in the world press does appear to be strong evidence that the practice was rare if not unknown before then.

B. I think the most important subjects that khomeini wrote and talked about were: "Neither East nor West" and "Velayat e faqih".

Very important, but I have to argue not as influential as martyrdom -as-a-military-tactic/strategy. No other country uses "Velayat e faqih". "Neither East nor West" is of course the majority belief in the Muslmi world but predates Khomeini (the non-aligned movement)

C. Perhaps it is good to have a section on Khomeini's negative opinion on Vahhabi regime of Saudi Arabia and Al-qaeda. He ordered Iranian goverment to cut relation with Saudi Arabia and he clearly said that Iran may one day start good diplomatic relation with the US but never with Saudi Arabia. Iran had no diplomatic relation with this coutry until Khomeini's death.

Agreed but then Shia antagonism with Wahhabi is longstanding and not unique to Khomeini

D. There need to be a section on Khomeini's differentiation between Islamic government and Islamic Republic system. He was totally against Islamic administration without parliamentary system. (see Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi)

Cannot agree. His book Islamic government specifically calls for the replacement of a parliment with a "planning agency" as parliments are unnecessary.

E. Khomeini was a main advocate of good Sunni-Shia relation in the world.

Agreed there should be something in about his stand on that.

F. During Russian occupation of Afghanistan, Khomeini allowed 3,000,000 Afghan refugees into Iran and helped them while Iran was itself busy with Iran-Iraq war. Iran's population was around 30,000,000 at that time. Perhaps this is one of the most important contribution of Khomeini to humanity and needs to be covered thoroughly. He considered himself a supporter of "poor people of the world".

Agreed

There are however many useful information in the article. I will comment on other parts in case you are interested. Take care. Sina Kardar 20:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Salam Leroy65X 15:42, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

PS, I'll post this exchange in the article talk section if you have no objections.

Have made some changes per complaints --Leroy65X 17:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

deleting quote

The quote below has no credibility so I'm deleting it. I can find no mention of the book Khomeinism and Islam on the internet.

The Islamic and non-Islamic powers of the world will not admit our power till such time that we establish our hold over Makkah and Madinah because these are the centers and citadels of Islam. Hence our domination over these places is an essential requirement ... when as a conqueror I will enter Makkah and Madinah, the first thing to be done at that time by me would be to dig out two idols (Abu Bakr and Umar) lying by the side of the Prophet's grave.

--BoogaLouie (talk) 23:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

References

Selected Fatawah and Sayings

This site is a pdf of THE LITTLE GREEN BOOK: Selected Fatawah And Sayings of The Ayatollah Mosavi Khomeini, translated into English by Harold Salemson (apparently translated from a French translation of the original). Is this an accurate? If so, should it be linked? 173.241.228.218 (talk) 02:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 25 October 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Consensus to move (non-admin closure) BegbertBiggs (talk) 18:56, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

---

Political thought and legacy of Ruhollah Khomeini → Khomeinism – Better and shorter name. Maudslayer (talk) 05:26, 25 October 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. BegbertBiggs (talk) 11:09, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

• Support - Seems reasonable to me. --Pokechu22 (talk) 19:43, 2 November 2020 (UTC)

• Support, reasonable title that is used in the literature. Also concise. Vici Vidi (talk) 08:38, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Iranian nationalism?

How can Khomeinism be an example of Iranian nationalism? This ideology is one hundred percent against nationalism. From Khomeini himself until now, Khamenei and his associates are all completely anti-Iranian nationalism. This ideology is even anti-nationalist. Amir Ghandi (talk) 23:43, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

The article is biased

In most places, this article tries to refute Khomeini's beliefs, and for this reason, the author chooses words from him that strengthen his opinion. Most of his words have been translated and interpreted in a biased manner. The author has used sources opposed to Khomeini. Unfortunately, political articles cannot be trusted on Wikipedia. Please at least mark this article as controversial 5.127.94.70 (talk) 19:48, 7 January 2022 (UTC)