Los Angeles Auxiliary Bishop Robert Barron hosted an invite-only meeting of Catholic media professionals last week to discuss “disturbing trends in the online Catholic world,” including the rise of “radical Traditionalist” movements that are often marked by personal attacks and vitriolic commentary.
The private meeting took place July 29 via Zoom and was confirmed to NCR by Brandon Vogt, content director for Word on Fire Catholic Ministries.
Vogt said that the meeting was initiated at his suggestion and had a threefold purpose, to discuss:
- A “culture of contempt” among Catholics online;
- The rise of “tabloid style” news in the Catholic press, “often in service of accruing web traffic and video views”;
- The influence of the so-called “radical Traditionalist” (or “rad-trad”) movements online.
“Rad trads” are often young Catholics who prefer traditional liturgy, including the Latin Mass, and subscribe to more conservative political beliefs and religious practices.
Vogt said the meeting of Catholic media professionals discussed the online behavior of traditionalists who “ruthlessly criticize the pope and bishops, and question the authority of the Second Vatican Council, often to the point of repudiation.”
In an interview with National Catholic Register earlier this year, Barron suggested that bishops may want to consider introducing “something like a mandatum for those who claim to teach the Catholic faith online, whereby a bishop affirms that the person is teaching within the full communion of the Church.”
NCR has confirmed that representatives of America Media, Catholic News Agency, Catholic News Service, Crux and Our Sunday Visitor were present on the call.
Full story at National Catholic Reporter.
Oh yes, it’s the Traditionalists that are the problem. Never mind the destruction of the Faith
in most parts of the world were caused by radical heretics / apostates that injected
their poison into the Church and failed to preach the Gospel as Our Lord taught.
The Gospel is preached. Problem is that about 80% of people aren’t interested.
A bit like the Chinese government censoring discussions of every sort online. I hope bishop Barron was able to provide concrete examples of contempt and help his conference attendees distinguish between style and content. In Europe the church is feeling pressure from governments and factions that do not like the teachings of the church on family,sexuality and gender. traditional teachings have become ” opinion crimes”.Do our bishops need trigger warnings before they enter some websites?Would Chesterton be allowed today with his deft slicing and sardonic twists of rhetoric?
Bishop Barron’s ego is very invested in silencing voices who have been critical of him. He of the “reasonable hope that all are saved” is disturbed that scholars and commentators reject his defense of this false notion. In particular, Michael Voris and Taylor Marshall ruffle his feathers, and while not acknowledging they are trying to bring souls to Christ, Barron wants them subject to his particular brand of censorship. Very petty for a man in his position.
Kristin, you have said before that you are a member of The Resistance. If you still are, then, you should have fully disclosed that in your post. Bishop Barron does not stifle people who disagree with his ideas. He responded to the criticism of the video you are referring to. I don’t think he cares if you agree or disagree with his opinions as long as you do not sin while doing it. I am often disappointed in his videos but sometimes they are very good. The point of this is that people who do not know the Faith very well are being misled by others. Clinton R. brought up some of the problems in his post above. It is not ok to mislead others (Mt. 18:6). It is not ok to start factions in the Church (Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 1:10). It happens especially when people (some traditionalists, some not) use the Internet as a source of income.. Controversy sells or gets clicks. They are under pressure to produce content that will keep their customers coming back. I would assume they are like any other influencer. People may start with good intentions but “where words are many, sin is not lacking.” Proverbs 10:19. They need our prayers.
Actually Anonymous, it is your working relationship with Bishop Barron that should be disclosed. He has told of having staff respond to various posts and in the way you assumed my association with a particular group, I’ll toss that charge back at cha!
Independent voices have the freedom that folks paid by Church officials do not. An employee beholden to a diocese for a paycheck has a conflict of interest when expected to honestly or aggressively cover their own bishop, so they don’t. The faithful, who should be encouraged to gather information from numerous sources, are let down by “official” information streams.
It is a deflection to charge those who disagree with Barron of not knowing their faith very well, or having a harsh tone. The insinuation that they are stupid, mean spirited and in need of our prayers is the very kind of condescension they rightly condemn.
Gone are the days when the only way to register a complaint against a bishop was to send a letter to him or his superior. If Bishop Barron would truly embrace the opening of the windows, he would appreciate the laity’s role in the battle that is, on this earth, The Church Militant.
Kristin, I do not know or work for Bishop Barron. I did not assume your association the The Resistance. You claimed you were a member in a comment once. I will make an attempt to find the comment but you post so often that it will be difficult and I only have a vague idea of when it was but I will try to find it. I notice you did not deny being a member. And it is fine if you are.
I did not say that those who disagree with Bishop Barron do not know their faith well, I said nothing about anybody’s tone or the other things in that paragraph. I did say that people who try to be Catholic influencers need prayers.
That’s the laity’s job! He twitter barked when recently asked to show pastoral leadership. He needs to censor himself.
Bishop Barron should comment on the homosexual culture at the Vatican or perhaps how his fellow US Bishops constantly ignore doctrinal and moral abuses in their dioceses. But he won’t, its easier to target “Rad Trads” with no power. The hypocrisy is disgusting.
Have all of you considered the source of this article?
It’s from the National Catholic Reporter, a notoriously dissenting, left-wing (shouldn’t even be called “Catholic”) newspaper.
(In fact, the bishop where it’s headquartered directed them not to use the name “Catholic” and they simply disobeyed.)
I don’t know enough about what really happened to comment upon what Bishop Barron did or said, but, the “spin” of the National Catholic Reporter (against not only traditional Catholicism, but most things associated with Christian faith and morality) is an important factor in what you read from them.
(And, dividing practicing Catholics from one another is a strategy that so-called newspaper has used for decades.)
Good point.
People: Look at your comments. So you perceive that the Bishop’s words about you are wrong. So be it. But instead of “turning the other cheek” as Our Lord would have you do, you begin to attack him. You all need to be reminded of the basics in genuine Christian deportment and attitude, regardless of what Bishop Barron has said. Barron being an anointed shepherd of the Church has every right to correct, reprimand, guide the flock; but you folks have no right to attack a bishop as he exercises his ministry. Folks, honestly, if you cannot handle this sort of thing from Barron with graciousness and patience, how can you hope to deal with REAL persecution when it comes?
jon, you are free to be as respectful as you like in following a bishop teaching error, but Bishop Barron is WRONG with his claim that we have a reasonable hope that all are saved. His error misleads the flock and he hates being called out for it even if the rebuke is candy coated and dipped in rainbow sprinkles.
Recognize that for orthodox Catholics, including that snarky designation of “Rad-Trad” believers, the persecution is already here. Bishop Barron is trying to rally his troops, the liberal Catholic media, to fight those he perceives as the enemy. That is behavior most unbecoming of a man in his position.
Kristin, you’re right that the snarky “rad trad” designation is inappropriate. But, so is calling most Catholics “Novus Ordonarians” or other things as has been done here.
All Catholics should refrain from name calling. Would you agree?
It seems that in a forum like this, we should feel free to disagree with the ideas or opinions of other readers (mostly presumably Catholic?) without resorting to name calling. Respecting all persons goes a long way. Your thoughts?
Anonymous, my thought is that those who post here are responsible for their own statements, whatever them contain. Bishop Barron prefers “something like a mandatum” to keep discussion from flowing freely which is not my preference. As for this site, the moderators are the final arbiters, and since it is theirs, that’s their proper function. If however, they attempted to “moderate” someone else’s site, that would be positively Barronesque.
Kristin, I hear you. But, it’s not clear to me what you’re stating. Would you agree that we should refrain from name-calling while disagreeing or do you think name calling is appropriate for Cal Catholic Daily readers (most of whom I presume are Catholic)?
Kristin, I came into the Church in the ’80s. It was nearly impossible to find someone who knew the Faith. Even older people taught from the Baltimore Catechism would say “They used to say (fill in the blank). I don’t know what it is now.” Enter the Catechism (Praise the Lord and thank you St. John Paul II and Pope Emeritus Benedict.) It really helped.
The internet has caused similar confusion. The mandatum idea is simply a way to let the Faithful know that information on the site is trustworthy. Problem is every time someone writes a new blog they could screw up.
I worry about the souls of those who run websites like this. Some of the comments here, especially about the Consecration to Mary, seem almost demonic in their attempt to undermine people’s faith. You would never print a card with comments like that and hand it out to everyone you see and think you were doing them a service. There are a lot of problems with just letting people say whatever they think.
Kristin writes: “Bishop Barron prefers ‘something like a mandatum’ to keep discussion from flowing freely which is not my preference.”
Peoples: Kristin preference has actually been condemned by Pope Leo XIII in his Encyclical “Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae.” The Pope writes: “These dangers, viz., the confounding of license with liberty, the passion for discussing and pouring contempt upon any possible subject, the assumed right to hold whatever opinions one pleases upon any subject and to set them forth in print to the world, have so wrapped minds in darkness that there is now a greater need of the Church’s teaching office than ever before, lest people become unmindful both of conscience and of duty.”
The Bishop is correct (and Kristin not) when he asks for a mandatum. In matters of faith and morals especially, you want the precise, correct, and orthodox teachings out there. And this is what Leo XIII is talking about. For example the false notion that “Vatican II is bad, and the ‘novus ordo Mass and Church are bad’ is precisely the kind of unorthodox sentiments that must be called out, if not removed.
jon, that is a great quote from a great Pope. I hope someday he will be canonized.
Entities are not allowed to use the word Catholic in their name unless they have permission from their ordinary. One of the Catholic “internet loudmouths”asked his diocese about that and was told that the dioceses really don’t have time to police the internet. It has been a problem for years and I have seen good faithful Catholics get really messed up by some of the less-than-faithful or holier-than-thou internet “informers”.
I contacted my diocese after I first saw this happening and explained to them who was messing with their minds and why the victims were vulnerable to the deception (lack of knowledge of the faith.) But it is more complicated than just ignorance. You see distrust of authority, naivete, zeal for a Church that they imagine was more faithful that they existed in the past, an intolerance for ambiguity, disappointment and anger in decisions made by priests and bishops and just plain old anxiety,
I just saw on YouTube a review of Catholic Internet sites and it was mentioned how much money one of them made. It is not in the millions but it is substantial income. i pray that people stop believing anything they read and turn to prayer and listen to Pope Leo XII.
We’re not talking about “reasonable hope.” We’re talking about the culture of contempt in the hearts of those who call themselves “traditional Catholic.” People, on this topic, this Bishop has hit the nail precisely on the head.
There’s a lot that’s contemptible in the novus ordo church.
Yours is the attitude, Anonymous, that this Bishop is speaking against. And for your information Anonymous, there is no such thing as a “novus ordo church.” There is only one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church.
I agree, the culture of contempt among Catholics has got to go. But it has got to go from all sides.
Amen, YFC! And, this “anonymous” rarely agrees with you. But, this goes to show that we can disagree without resorting to name calling.
Dear CCD Editors: The extremely heavy censorship of my posts is getting tiresome.Either let me defend myself or at least censor those who harrass and degrade and lie about me here on CCD.
I think the designation of “Rad-trad” came from the Rad-trads themselves, no?
This is silly nonsense. Proclaim Christ crucified and Risen. Nothing else matters. Rad. Trad. This or That. Nothing else matters.
I don’t know if they started it but they adopted it because rad in slang means awesome which in slang means impressive.
I’ve observed before, and I think it is still true, that the majority of Catholics don’t even know that there is a “traditionalist” movement in the Church. Think about it. Those who were born at the time of Vatican II are now in or quickly approaching retirement and have never been to a Latin Mass, seen a TLM, or would know that they might find one in the Diocese. Those who were adults at VII are quickly passing to a new life. Except for the one or two percent of Catholics who cling/prefer the EOF, there is no issue. I’ve also observed that it is not the OF folks who are lambasting the EOF folks, but the other way around. Just saying. Think about it this way, if we can. The TLM is a European Mass used by the Latin Rite of the RCC. The other, who knows how many, Rites of the RCC use another Mass form. Even some of the Orders use a different form of the Mass. They are all good and helpful unto salvation and there is no need to think that one is better than the other. If you really want to get something started, think of the TLM as the Mass of the White colonial invaders who forced conversion of the natives of the American continents. There, now you have something to get worked up about.
Bob One, perhaps you are unaware that churches offering the Traditional Mass are bursting at the seams. Young people and large families are breathing life into parishes long thought to be dried up. Aging boomers are the ones clinging to Novus Ordo Masses with the kind of abuses listed below by Romulus Augustus. The thing to get worked up about is the 80+ percent of Catholics that do not attend ANY Mass.
Traditionalists are the very heart of the Church, even in spite of the nervousness coming from “invite-only” discussions hosted by Bishop Barron.
This myth is repeated over and over again by rad trads. That the TLM is flourishing. It’s not. A small group who like the TLM drive long distances to attend the only TLM in town, giving the illusion that it has wide appeal. That’s not flourishing. If you changed every parish to the TLM, most of them would be even emptier than they are now with novus ordo Masses.
I agree with Anonymous. It is indeed a myth that the TLM is flourishing; and I say this as someone who goes to the TLM regularly. And this is not just me, but I’ve also heard it from Bishop Conley of Lincoln, NE at a conference, while he was speaking about both forms of the one Roman Rite in his diocese. His point is that in his diocese the attendance at the TLM has plateaued.
And to Kristin’s point that “Traditionalists are the very heart of the Church”—this is wrong. Christ Our Lord is the very heart of the Church. The closer a person is to Him, the closer that person is to the Heart of the Church. When one separates oneself from his ministers in the Church (bishops, priests, the Pope), one separates oneself from the Heart, which is Christ.
It’s a figure of speech,lots of bishops call various people, black, gay, indigenous, female, addicts, prisoners, the heart of the church
Bob One, for most of the world nothing could be further from the truth about the Latin Mass being for Europeans only. Some of our finest classical musicians and conductors are from Asia or of Asian descent. I know. I grew up with some right here in California. Cardinal Zen and Sarah learned Latin and still prefer it for the Mass. Chant is originally middle eastern and has an eastern tone to it. It is easy for those from Spain and Latin America to learn the Latin language. Just get on line and listen to the Mexican and Spanish singers who sing Gregorian chants so beautifully. Listen to the Japanese TLM chanters.
By the way, Lebanon (in the middle east) needs our prayers now after the explosion that killed and injured many. I did the chaplet of St Charbel (in English) for them.
Thank you Anne TE for raising the issue of the ailing peoples of Lebanon, of course including our Christian brothers and sisters.
You are welcome.
It was very comforting to find out that the priest (probably Maronite Catholic) in the video going around was neither killed nor injured, but others were not so fortunate. There have been Maronites in my area, and after fleeing their own country, some of them have died tragically. May they and all others, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.
I find comfort at times reading “St. Sharbel by Mary Clare Vincent, OSB. St. Therese and he had similar lives as both were considered “just ordinary” until miracles attributed to them proved otherwise.
What else don’t you like about National Catholic Reporter, Reverend?
I suspect the local Bishop is afraid of losing in civil court if he tried to enforce his order.
Mike, I’m happy to answer your question. The National Catholic Reporter has a long history of dissent from and promoting dissent from the teachings of Christ and His Church. Even truth in advertising should cause them to choose to take “Catholic” out of their name. It is not an issue for a civil court. You’re right, they would, of course, lose there. It’s a matter of Church (or canon) law. They claim to be Catholic, yet totally disregard their local bishop. That isn’t Catholic. That’s the newspaper business. They want the revenue (as do some other dissenters) from being thought of as Catholic. Compare what you find in the teachings of the Catholic Church with what you find in the pages of the National Catholic Reporter. Then, you’ll see the difference yourself. I hope that helps.
I have lived in the city where NCR is headquartered since the 1950’s.
NCR is an independent publication. It has never been a diocesan newspaper.
Bishop Helmsing asked them to remove “Catholic” from the title back in the late 1960’s.
They declined, citing their independent nature. Succeeding Bishops have asked them the same thing and they have always declined, citing their independence.
Freedom of the Press allows them to continue using the Title.
Like them or not, “Catholic” is not a copyrighted word.
James, that’s exactly what I said, They have a legal right to use that name. Catholics also have legal rights to abortion, pornography, drunkenness, adultery and many other things. Exercising one’s legal rights can be wrong, even evil. Civil law is not the issue here. Being a Catholic means more than simply claiming a word and applying it to one’s self (whether a business or an individual). Catholics belong to the Church founded by Jesus, with bishops as successors to the Apostles. A lot of what’s in the pages of the NC Reporter is not Catholic. Even if you don’t think they should follow their bishop, do you believe in truth in advertising?
Canon Law gives the bishop jurisdiction over any organization within his territory that calls itself Catholic. Whereas as a matter of US Law NCR may call itself “Catholic”, according to Canon Law it may not do so without the Bishop’s permission. NCR is so independent that it is independent of Catholic faith. Just read about staff writer Jamie Monson, lesbian, and you’ll quickly realize that NCR isn’t Catholic despite it’s claim to be.
Can we get a few things straight here: “catholic” means universal. To the extent that the Roman pontiff calls his see :universal, is from the outset an insult to the Eastern Churches, which even by Latin Canon Law, have their own juridical state. If the Roman Pontiff and the Latin BIshops under his prelature call themselves “catholic”, they deny the true nature of the truly universal Church.
Since you mentioned the Eastern Churches, of which I am a member, I feel compelled to say something here. I am a member of a sui juris, self-governing, Eastern Catholic Church. That said, all of our Eastern Catholic bishops are in communion with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, otherwise we wouldn’t be Catholic. Catholic Christians are members of Churches whose bishops are in union with the Pope. Anyone one, even any church or ecclesial community, as some do, can call themselves “Catholic.” It’s the bishops in communion with one another, including the Pope of Rome, and their faithful and clergy that make up the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church (of the Creed, and the Catechism). “Whole” would maybe be a better translation of the Greek word for catholic. I hope that helps shed some light.
Thank you Bishop Barron. It is about time someone resisted and pushed back against the arrogant and obnoxious radical traditionalist catholics. I have had several encounters with these rad trads while walking to my car after Mass. They has been hostile angry screamers who will not engage in a respectful and civil dialogue but instead insist that they are right and their way is the only way to salvation.
William Robert, WOW, that’s incredible! Catholics engaged in a culture of encounter, trying to make a mess and dialogue with the community. It’s just what Pope Francis asked to be done. At what church do you find these folks, they sound fearlessly on fire with the truth.
Yes, I can see how we “Rad Trads” so funny are the root problem of the Church, remember you were once what we are we HAVE NOT CHANGED its you the Novus Ordonarians who have changed. Altar girls, dancing girls in leotards, pervert priests, hand holding, kiss of peace, drums, guitars, pianos, rock music, Holy Communion in the had while standing, lay lectors, a “dinner table” not an altar of sacrifice, eucharistic ministers, tank tops, shorts, while we have altar boys only, holy priests, kneeling for communion on the tongue, Mozart, Palestrina, Organ, Gregorian chant, Latin, incense, high altar of sacrifice, proper attire, communion rail, silence, this is what the Roman Catholic Church is Bishop Barron. Why don’t you stop the Marxist-Leninist’s from ripping down the statues of Junipero Serra and defacing Our Lady all over the United States?
What I don’t understand is bishops who talk about “building bridges” with every possible dissident group out there, then react to traditional Catholics like they are the enemy. So many faithful Catholics are fed up with the lack of leadership and are sending donations that once went to parishes and dioceses to those brave Catholics who are not afraid to speak the truth. So many Catholics are fed up with the leftist agendas that they find in their own diocese. We want shepherds who are not afraid to stand up for the traditional faith, but what we get too often are leaders afraid to offend the left.
IF you prefer the TLM, fine. If you prefer Gregorian chant, fine. If you prefer incense and robotic liturgical men, fine. But don’t go around and call yurselves”faithful Catholics”. It is an arrogant insult to those of us who are just as faithful as you, at least we try to be, believe the same things you believe, are no more and no less sinful and in need of God’s Grace than you are, find spritual life fulfilling in this life and hopefully unto the next.
The very term “faithful Catholics” — which is meant to seperate you from those of us who are supposedly “unfaithful” — is a slander that has got to go.
Bishop Barron seems to be worried about the rise of or should I say the return of the Traditional Mass and sacraments with YOUNG people leading the way, I mean really are young Catholics going to attend Life Teen Masses once they have grown up? No of course not they will want the real deal and that is the Traditional Latin Mass the Mass of All Times!
I sense in this move the beginning of a process to ban many healthy Catholic web and blog sites that discuss currents in the church with thoughtful ,prayerful orthodox insight. They move with lightning speed to cast light on error and abuse.they also celebrate good and help propagate it. By setting a standard from Rome, transmitted by delegated bishops such as no Barron, Facebook et Alia will feel compelled to set a firewall. Do not expect transparency on this law.
We radical trads hope that through our ancient Faith we will help keep the Faith in the much smaller future Catholic Church.
Bishop Barron should be talking about the 90% of young Catholics who leave the church and won’t come back after coronavirus ends in 3-4 years.
Cancel Culture, Catholic Style. Word on File.
Hostile and angry screamers?? Far from that, it is the Novus Ordonarians who scream and cannot engage in a decent conversation, the first thing they call us are 1950’s Catholics or living in the 15th century, like liberals Novus Ordonarians are full of rage at the mere mention of the TLM or anything prior to the Second Vatican Council. I love to discuss the TLM vs. the man made Novus Ordo Mass created by the known “Freemason” Annibale Bugnini, they are night and day. Prior to the council Mass attendance was 75% after the Council it stands at 10% that is your New Springtime for you. And by the way calling you Novus Ordonarians is NOT a bad thing it simply means New Ordo in Latin, we just call ourselves Roman Catholic.
You make up a weird name for people and you think they are raging at you? Novus Orgonarians? As though that were even a thing?
Most people as far as I know, even if they don’t themselves partake in the TLM are hardly screaming and unengaging.
Should the vast majority of Catholics who don’t adhere to the less-than-ordinary form of the Mass be called Minoritarians? TranscendentialLatinoMarians? No, of course not. Show some respect, please!
TLM is just the MAGA hat for conservative Catholics. It’s about group identity and cult, not so much a well thought out set of principles. You think everyone who wears a MAGA hat has thought that through? You think everyone who promotes the TLM has thught that through?
The anonymous hoards are rattled, all their anti TLM and pro Barron stuff. Scattered and leaderless Bugnini victims.
James you are very correct, the bishops love anyone or any organization who does not support Church teaching or is a far Left outfit. I find it ironic here we are loyal to Holy Mother Church and all it stands for and we are the bad guys, just like the BLM and Antifa Communist movement that is destroying and looting and burning our cites and the Democrats do nothing and call it “peaceful protests”!
Gratis, that is precisely what His Holiness Pope Benedict the VI said, the Church will be much smaller but filled with true believers. How I miss our good Pope, he tried so hard to restore the Church to its traditional roots and then for some nefarious reason he stepped down.
i gotta stop lookin’ at the hierarchy
one way or the other
there’s nuthin’ there
gotta draw close to Christ
AND His Church some other way
sacraments, rosary, prayer, Scripture,
and faithful priests, when you can find ’em
Part of Bishop Barrons complaints, it seems to me, is that we as Christians are called to proclaim Good News, the Gospel, that Jesus the Christ has won for us so great a victory that even our own failings and sin, which merit us death, are overcome by the cross. That we who have died with Christ shall rise with him. Do we see any of that in Catholic social media these days? No, what we see is bitterness and infighting.
Barron rejects the reality of Adan and Eve and
has stated publicly that the Jews are saved independently of Christ and the Catholic Faith. How is it he is a bishop since he’s not even a Catholic?
Inquisitor Maximus-Answer is Vatican II.
Adam and Eve were not real people walking around with fig leaves and eating apples all day. it is a story, a lovely story, about human relationships, the power to sanctify the secular things around us, and the gift that self restraint can give to all of creation. The Genesis story of the tree of knowledge is an awful lot like wearing masks and not engaging in group behaviors, when you think about it. It’s not objectively evil to eat of the tree, it is your right, after all. But it is your choice to do what is asked so that other inhabitants of the garden might flourish.
Adam and Eve were real people. They were not in fig leaves very long because the Lord made them garments of leather. It was the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil that they ate, not an apple. They did not have a right to eat of the tree. It was forbidden. They disobeyed and one of the consequences was that they and their descendants became vulnerable to disease.
Thank you Anne TE for raising the issue of the ailing peoples of Lebanon, of course including our Christian brothers and sisters.