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The pastor at my church is hateful and mean

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u/TheKayin avatar

Yea he sounds like a dick

u/Yesmar2020 avatar

If I were in your spot, I see two choices.

If I were an integral part of that church, served in some way, or had a position of service in that church, I would probably stay and help change it from the inside. You don’t forsake a whole family because of one bad egg. In most Protestant churches, a pastor is hired, an employee, and subject to the board that runs the church.

On the other hand, if I just “went to church” there, and the pastor was a “sheriff” that ruled over the congregation, I’d leave.

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u/Yesmar2020 avatar

Ah, yes, I’ve encountered that before too. That’s a toxic church. If it was me, I’d leave, but you follow what the spirit leads you, neighbor.

Good luck.

u/Sea-Suit-4893 avatar

If the elders aren't going to do anything about it, I don't see what else you can try.

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Him disowning his family might be a good start

u/Niftyrat_Specialist avatar

Some churches are basically just miniature cults-of-personality for an authoritarian preacher. This sounds exactly like one of them.

Is this church part of a denomination, and/or is there a governing board? You could try bringing your concerns up in the proper channel. Or you could just forget trying to fix this church and find one that isn't so broken.

Edited

If he isn't listening to other churchgoers, leave. He clearly is choosing to harden his heart and continue being hateful and judgmental. Pastors are supposed to lead their flock closer to God, and I doubt that's what yours is doing.

1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ of glory with respect of persons. 2 For if there shall come into your assembly a man having a golden ring, in fine apparel, and there shall come in also a poor man in mean attire, 3 And you have respect to him that is clothed with the fine apparel, and shall say to him: Sit thou here well; but say to the poor man: Stand thou there, or sit under my footstool: 4 Do you not judge within yourselves, and are become judges of unjust thoughts? 5 Hearken, my dearest brethren: hath not God chosen the poor in this world, rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which God hath promised to them that love him?

I would find a different church. Don't worry about what this pastor, or his flock, thinks about that decision, because clearly they are in error.

Whoa, a pastor full of dumbassery. Definitely one that has lost their way. After the first not bright remark, I would have let him know and walked.

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He has lost his way, he has no excuse.

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Actually sounds pretty typical in my experience.

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That HAS to be a sin, right?

Yes.

Jesus talks about this sort of thing several times.

u/Henry--Z avatar

As a follower of Jesus Christ myself, I had a few thoughts and impressions as I was reading your post.  As believers, we need to be careful that we don’t let the “fear of man” creep into our thinking as stated in (Proverbs 29:26) “Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the Lord is kept safe.”  Also we need to remember we are to please the “Audience of One,” that being Father God.  “Am I trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God?  Or am I trying to please people?  If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.”  Sounds like the pastor is trying to put people back under the law, which Christ died on the cross to free us from.

Either ignore him or leave. He sounds like a jerk and just letting you know, if everything is you said is true, then God isn't happy with him. And I think we both have an idea of what that means.

What a jerk.

James 22 My brothers and sisters, practice your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ by not favoring one person over another. 2 For example, two men come to your worship service. One man is wearing gold rings and fine clothes; the other man, who is poor, is wearing shabby clothes. 3 Suppose you give special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say to him, “Please have a seat.” But you say to the poor man, “Stand over there,” or “Sit on the floor at my feet.” 4 Aren’t you discriminating against people and using a corrupt standard to make judgments?5 Listen, my dear brothers and sisters! Didn’t God choose poor people in the world to become rich in faith and to receive the kingdom that he promised to those who love him? 6 Yet, you show no respect to poor people. Don’t rich people oppress you and drag you into court? 7 Don’t they curse the good name ⌞of Jesus⌟, the name that was used to bless you?

8 You are doing right if you obey this law from the highest authority: “Love your neighbor as you love yourself.” 9 If you favor one person over another, you’re sinning, and this law convicts you of being disobedient. 10 If someone obeys all of God’s laws except one, that person is guilty of breaking all of them. 11 After all, the one who said, “Never commit adultery,” is the same one who said, “Never murder.” If you do not commit adultery but you murder, you become a person who disobeys God’s laws.
12 Talk and act as people who are going to be judged by laws that bring freedom. 13 No mercy will be shown to those who show no mercy to others. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

"By their fruits you will know them."

Seems like you've seen enough to know you shouldn't be learning from this dude. I'd get out.

u/SecurityTheaterNews avatar

i have often thought when I see Christians being hateful, mean, and petty, that they are likely just following what their pastor is teaching them.

u/DueChampionship4613 avatar

He should be told some (many, many verses) which are specifically talking about him and any one like him. If you feel like it. Let me know and I'll seriously retrieve verses you can show him concerning judgement and pride in Christ. It's not acceptable. Do you realize that he is the antichrist? He is apposing the will of God by judging his flock according too the flesh and the law and not grace and truth. He is being cruel when God showed him mercy. He's judging when God is giving him grace, he's condemning when God blessed him. He is a thief because he is stealing the very grace of God using it up too comfort his own shortcoming but instead of feeding and clothing the flock he's suppose too protect and lead he is devouring them and making them too feel naked and shameful. He is what is wrong with the church and he is not even worthy of being a pastor if he's just a big miserable Grinch who despises the freedom his flock has while he's unable too accept mercy and therefore is condemned and facing wrath. Don't believe his way it is wrong and will lead too him being cast down too the ground from his high nest where he dwells in the branches of the tree of our Lord and judges those given less spiritual authority or insight- hence he will be as the beast of the earth soon. Warn him of his error if you have any heart for him or ur people. He's under a spirit of condemnation and is probably really in need of a check

u/lonequack avatar

Where's the Tiktok Red Flag guy when you need him?

Your pastor sounds like a class act... doesn't sound terribly pastoral. Probably shouldn't be in a position of power, let alone authority, over anyone.

Don't take anything he says to heart. What are you praying about? I don't think he's going to change. I don't know if the congregation wants him out of there or not- but by your other replies, it doesn't sound like he's leaving any time soon. Honestly, counter-prayer of sorts here- I pray that you are released from that which holds you there, in the same environment as that guy. That's not a restful Sunday.

I imagine it would feel much more freeing to be somewhere else where the clergy are kinder. I hope that you are able to get to an environment that is safer and friendlier, where you can wipe the dust off of your shoes and be yourself, without worrying about him anymore.

"I'm at the point where I only go to church just to please my family because they attend the same church. I've talked to them about this countless times and they are well aware of how he is. The only reason they continue going is because we're all related and they don't want to cause some family conflict with him because he's the type that will disown his own family if they aren't attending his church."

Spiritual truth is more important, as is a personal relationship with God; neither of which it seems this "pastor" possesses.

Consider:

"the time is coming—indeed it’s here now—when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. The Father is looking for those who will worship him that way. For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.” (John 4:23,24)

“If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine." (Matthew 10:37,38)

u/were_llama avatar

Forgive him. God will judge him and you

I'd leave. At my church if there was an issue with the way someone was dressing, the person would be approached privately, with love. They wouldn't be corrected and shamed for their style of dress. They would be encouraged, with love to dress more appropriately.

Just don’t attend the church. Why would you benefit from listening to hate?

Growing up in a Catholic household, I've always found it interesting how I've never experienced any of these issues with any of the priests or nuns within the church. I don't understand how other denominations have such a bad experience with their religious leaders.

I'm sorry that you are treated this way. It seems odd that this occurs anywhere.

u/blackdragon8577 avatar

Yes, I am so glad the Catholic church stands alone regarding it's lack abusive leadership.

That's not what I said. I don't understand how people like to pick fights with others. All I did was share my experience.

u/blackdragon8577 avatar

But it is what you implied.

I don't understand how other denominations have such a bad experience with their religious leaders.

The obvious implication here being that other denominations have more problems with church leadership then the catholic church members do.

You know what I don't understand? People that think they can say whatever lie they want as long as they aren't technically saying what they obviously mean.

I understand that you may have a different perspective, and I respect that. We all have our unique experiences and feelings, and it's important to acknowledge and respect them.

I don't want you to feel as if I'm attacking anyone. If you thought that way, I'm sorry. It wasn't my intention. You can't always please everyone. I see your point. I never intended to make it sound like the Church I belong to didn't have their problems.

I sometimes articulate my thoughts and feelings differently than others might. However, I guess it would have been better to state that I find it weird that any religious organization treats its members as less than because of differing opinions. It just so happens that I've never had that experience, and I feel sorry for anyone who has.

God bless you, I mean that.

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I think a lot of it has to do with the organizational structure of different churches.

The Catholic Church is very "corporate" in its structure with a simple and well known hierarchy. The Catholic Church also has a pretty well established "career path" from seminary, to "entry-level" priesthood positions, to leadership of a parish, and beyond. In general, that means Catholic priests are well educated, have significant experience before reaching a position of leadership, and have "a boss" that they answer to if they screw up.

Most other denominations are not so clearly organized. For some, it's enough for a pastor to find somewhere to worship and start holding services. Many denominations work more like franchises, where each local church is "independently owned and operated" but affiliates with the parent denomination. The senior pastor or church founder really has ultimate control of the church and there are no guarantees as to their training or experience. While this opens the door to some unique and wonderful worship opportunities, it also opens the door to some absolute horror shows.

That's a very eye-opening perspective. That makes a lot of sense.

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Keep your head up. If you're a believer in Christ, stick to that. Those who would judge you for simple things shouldn't be listened to. I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope that you can find solace in your faith. God bless you.

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u/Kanjo42 avatar
Edited

Yeah, he sounds pretty disagreeable, but it's not like this is all he's about, right? It's easy to find things wrong with him, but I assume there's a lot right with him, too.

He sounds like he makes superficial judgments about someone's character based on things he perceives as lazy or disrespectful. It might be helpful to bring up the fact, not an opinion, but a fact based on Jesus' words, that as he has treated the least of these, so he has done unto Christ Himself.

I wonder if he'd be so cavalier about running his mouth if it was Jesus in the crowd wearing shorts. Maybe he'd measure his response with more humility.

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u/Kanjo42 avatar

Not really my place to say, so take this with a grain of salt, but it's possible God may hold him to account for these people he's put off, if he put them off the gospel. He may face the bitterest judgment before Christ at the end of all this for the petty prejudices he enforced instead of putting the gospel first.

It may be a kindness to fight him on this, for his sake. I think God loves him too much to just let him shame the gospel in this way. I'm pretty sure he just doesn't perceive the effect he has on others as a leader in the church.

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Modern churches are replete with hypocritical leadership, false teaching, compromise, bending to the pressures of of cultural changes,  becoming political propoganda organizations, material gain, biblical errors, and apostasy. 

I personally believe that the Church Age (i.e. The Millennium) began its waning in the late 1960s. I believe we are living in that period where Satan is unbound and allowd to roam "for a short while". 

u/Dillxdean98 avatar

Just read scripture for yourself and allow the Spirit to teach you. Switch churches if you have to until you find one with strong Biblical leaders and values that reflect Christ's love genuinely.