Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2009 January 3

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January 3

Unknown German Currency

I am not exactly sure what this currency is, and what value it would have today. It appears to be German. dlempa (talk) 02:47, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

To answer the first part of your question, a very similar note (with the same value) is the example image at the top of the German gold mark article. Warofdreams talk 03:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It's the exact same sort of note, but the watermark is more pronounced in the gold mark one. (And the names are different on the 1914 one). The "unknown" one says it was issued in Berlin, 1908. They sell on eBay for around $5. --98.217.8.46 (talk) 03:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, considering it says "Zwanzig Mark" in giant letters across the front, it looks like a Twenty Mark note from 1908. As far as what twenty 1908 marks would be worth in modern currency, I have no clue. But in 1908, it would have been worth twenty marks. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 03:26, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

While the German gold mark was officially equivalent to gold at the rate of 2790 Mark = 1 kilogram gold (20 Mark = 7.1685 g ~= 145 euro at the current ~20.30 euro/gram), I doubt any bank would honor the promise to pay gold made by Bismark's German Empire. I'm unclear as to the legal differentiation between the gold mark and the 1914's Papiermark (I think they are equivalent, absent gold backing), but the German Papiermark went through hyperinflation in 1922-1923. In 1923 the Papiermark was replaced by the German Rentenmark at a rate of 1 Rentenmark = 10¹² (one billion) Papiermark. The Rentenmark was soon replaced by the German Reichsmark at a 1:1 ratio. After WWII, the Reichsmark was replaced by the Deutsche Mark with a sliding scale. I believe cash was set at 1:1. In 1999, the Mark was exchanged for the euro at ~ 2 marks = 1 euro. With the switch to euros, marks ceased to be legal tender, but coins and banknotes valid in 1999 can still be exchanged for euros at central banks. If one was to exchange the 20 gold mark note at a central bank at official exchange rates (assuming a 1908 Gold Mark was valued the same as a 1923 Papiermark, and 1908 marks haven't been voided in all the currency switches), you'd only be able to get 0.000 000 000 01 euros for it. I highly suspect it's more valuable as a collectors item than as official currency. -- 128.104.112.113 (talk) 21:16, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks much for the help, I looked around for it but couldn't find anything. dlempa (talk) 16:17, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Time zone

1. If you were standing on the boundary of two time zones, what time would it be for you?

2. Since the poles are where all the time zones meet, what time would it be there?

60.230.124.64 (talk) 07:17, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Whatever is convenient. See also: North_Pole#Time--Shahab (talk) 08:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

It would be both. Or to put it another way, there is only one time at any particular moment but many names for it. E.g. right now it is approx. 12:30am EST, but also 9:30pm PST, 6:30am CET, and 5:30am UTC. I'm on the east coast of the U.S., so if asked what time it is I would answer 12:25am with the EST being understood. In places where there is no local convention (such as at normally uninhabited places) you'll have to be more specific. It all depends on context. If you're in Antarctica at a U.S. research station, you'll use a time coordinated with someplace in the U.S. If you trek over to the nearby Norwegian station, they might use a completely different time zone. —D. Monack ^talk 05:31, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

All time is conventional, even the division of the day into twenty-four hours. Time zones simply keep everyone on the same track, so that starting times, etc. can be coordinated. In medieval monasteries this was done locally with a bell. Days were divided into the same number of hours, winter or summer: summer hours were short, winter night hours long. Precise times became important for ordinary folk with the creation of railroad schedules in the 1830s. And are you sure that time flows evenly, that it doesn't actually arrive in extremely small packets?--Wetman (talk) 13:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

I've entertained this question in the past myself. Like what if you were standing on the boundary between PST and Mountain Time in Oregon? See this map that illustrates the USA's time zones. I understand that the concept of time is of course just based on the local consensus, but in a "what if" situation, it is entertaining to wonder about. Killiondude (talk) 00:42, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Amateur pornography and 2257

Wouldn't the 2257 law make amateur pornography illegal to distribute, at least in theory, in the United States? This is not a request for actual legal advice; it's just a general question as to what the reality is.--Veritable's Morgans Board (talk) 16:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

18 U.S.C. 2257 § 75.1 (c)(4) lays out some exemptions for the requirement to carry the records. A website that allows users to share content is not required to carry records if it "does not, and reasonably cannot, manage the sexually explicit content of the computer site or service." This would allow a loophole for posting amateur pornography without records. Note, however, that a lot of so-called "amateur" pornography is actually produced professionally with the performers acting as if they were amateurs. The producers of this kind of "amateur" pornography often keep records anyway.--el Aprel (^facta-_facienda) 19:56, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

How can I stop the use of RFID tags?

RFID tags are evil. How do we stop them from being abused by the powers that be?--Veritable's Morgans Board (talk) 16:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Aluminum foil. --Maltelauridsbrigge (talk) 20:40, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't buy any products so-tagged ? If enough people did this, they would no longer be used. But why do you think they are evil ? Radio wave exposure ? Or are you talking about people being tagged ? StuRat (talk) 20:51, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

RFIDs aren't "evil" at all - they're incredibly useful. It seems you've been listening to Slashdot and the like, the glittering anus from which all nonsense flows. Like any useful tool, RFID is subject to abuse. A knife can kill you, or can be used by a doctor to save your life; RFID is just like that. Used without care RFID can turn into a universal tracking token, a veritable mark of Cain which ties you to your inevitable doom. But used wisely it's a great boon; rather than "ban the evil technology", the smart thing to do is to control and use this to our benefit, without cowering in fear of anything that has electricity in it. RFID has some great uses:

• You need surgery. All the instruments and swabs and garments used in your operation have RFIDs in them, so the theatre nurse can make sure all the stuff that went into the theatre comes out (that they're not sewing a gauze bandage or a cotton swab into your bloody innards, as happens all too often). If it wasn't for the "evil" RFID, the nurse might miscount, leave a swab inside you, and you're dead two days later from a massive infection.
• All the workers in the chemical plant have an RFID in their ID badge. When they move from one sector to another a detector records this. When the plant goes on fire, the fire department want to know into which inferno they need to send the firefighters. The RFID based system tells them which, and which not. If it wasn't for the "evil" RFID a firefighter would have to go into each area, and risk dying to rescue someone who wasn't even there.
• You operate a warehouse for forensic samples for the DHPD. The samples to do with a rape case are missing - they're somewhere in the giant (and packed full) evidence room. If you can't find them by tomorrow the case will fail, and the rapist will go free to attack again. But some jackass has filed the samples in the wrong place. Even if you stay all night, searching one bay at a time, you'll probably not find them in time. But all the sample packets have RFIDs on them, so you can set your RFID wand to search for a given tag, and then wand a given bay in a few seconds. This way you can wand the hundreds of bays in an hour or two, and find the misfiled packet. If it wasn't for the "evil" RFID, the rapist would go free.

Now you've read on Slashdot, or Digg, or Reddit, or Fark, that RFIDs are evil, and if you buy anything with one in it you'll be forever owned by the man. Nah. In the worst case, you buy a cheap RFID reader, wand your stuff, and cut or pull out the RFID. There aren't magic RFIDs that only some bad nasty man who wants to hurt you can read, but that you can't. They're just little blobs that return a serial number when you zap them with some radio waves. There's no reason to be scared. -- 87.112.6.240 (talk) 00:42, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

You say "There aren't magic RFIDs that only some bad nasty man who wants to hurt you can read, but that you can't. ", but that's not entirely true. Some RFIDs are encrypted. (Passports) Others are not true RFIDs, but non-standard tags based on similar technology. (some Pet ID tags). In the first case you can 'read' the tag, but you cannot decode it. In the second case you need specialized, expensive, hardware to even read the tag. To say that anyone can read any tag is simplistic and deceptive. APL (talk) 18:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

They're not intrinsically good or evil. The people on slashdot would be concerned by the security and civil rights implications, there's enough people around without any security mindset who can think of ways of making money or doing something useful. For instance a person wthout the security mindset thinks aha an RFID on a passport would make it easy to scan people through the airport and check who they are. A person with the security mindset thinks aha I can easily read people details at the airport and ransack their houses while they're out of the country or impersonate them and get through the lazy security without decent checks. As to civil rights I live in a country where an old age pensioner can be arrested as a terrorist for heckling at a party conference, how much power do you want your government to have over you? Dmcq (talk) 12:30, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

One use of RFIDs that people are particularly uncomfortable with is the new tagged passports. (I got my passport during the transition period and was happy to get one of the old ones. The new ones are ugly, anyway.) There are various sites on the internet that will give you all sorts of ways to disable the tag. Do a google search. I'm sure this isn't entirely legal, but you sound like you're up for it.

In general, though RFIDs are used pretty much the same way bar-codes are used. In the future they'll probably mostly replace barcodes and no one will much care. APL (talk) 18:43, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Smith's influence on Kant

I’m interested in the (possible) influence Adam Smith’s works had on Immanuel Kant. I’ve read many articles drawing parallels between both, but none where Kant's writing have formally and concretely shown to have been influenced by and drawn reference to either the Theory of Moral Sentiments or the Wealth of Nations. Given that both were contemporaries and leading Enlightenment figures, I find it not implausible that Smith influenced Kant; indeed Wealth of Nations was translated into German within a year of its English publication. Kant was no economist but even so I wonder if there are traceable references in some parts of his work to core Smithian topics, e.g., division of labor, open, decentralized markets; good governance etc alongside more familiar alongside philosophical references. Can anyone help? Many thanks - and happy New Year.87.155.40.140 (talk) 18:33, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

In the fall of 1988 I taught a course on eighteenth-century moral sentiment theory that ended with a brief consideration of Adam Smith's Theory of the Moral Sentiments. I was struck by the way much of it seemed to look forward to Kant and, after teaching Kant's moral philosophy in the spring of 1989, pursued the possibility of a link between these two thinkers over the summer. To my delight, I discovered both that Kant had in fact read Smith and that this connection had never been made the subject of thorough scholarly study. I developed the connection in an article published by Kant-Studien in 1991.

from Samuel Fleischacker's preface to A Third Concept of Liberty: Judgment and Freedom in Kant and Adam Smith OCLC 59381978.—eric 03:44, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

• Fleischacker, Samuel. (1991) "Philosophy and Moral Practice: Kant and Adam Smith," Kant-Studien.
• (Autumn 1996) "Values Behind the Market: Kant's Response to the Wealth of Nations," History of Political Thought.

Chopin Nocturne in F minor in a film

I have searched on google to find this but couldn't come up with anything myself. I was playing this Nocturne ( http://imslp.info/files/imglnks/usimg/6/6c/IMSLP00467-Chopin_-_2_Nocturnes__Op_55.pdf - the first nocturne) before and was wondering if anyone knew of any films it was on the soundtrack of. I also tried searching IMDB but their search system isn't the best for finding soundtrack info. Thanks --82.27.103.79 (talk) 21:12, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I googled on 'Chopin nocturne "F minor" 15 movie site:imdb.com', and wound up here at IMDB's Chopin page. It seems they treat him as a songwriter like any other. A <CTL-F> search on that page for 'nocturne' got me Mockingbird Don't Sing and The Peacemaker. --Milkbreath (talk) 22:37, 3 January 2009 (UTC)