This is the subreddit for everything related to Star Citizen - an up and coming epic space sim MMO being developed by Chris Roberts and Cloud Imperium Games.
QUESTION
Perhaps this has already been suggested, but i find it's near impossible to judge your accurate distance from planet surfaces on approach (yes i know there's an Alt calculator and we can use Tab to briefly scan terrain).
Night, Thermal or IR vision as an option built in to the HUD would be a pretty easy addition surely?
Love to know what everyone's thoughts on this are.
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It should definitely be a thing
For exploration/pathfinder and military ships as Standard, cargo haulers and civilian ships should be able to buy an upgrade
I think all ships would have an appropriate approach suite to deal with night.
Upgrading things though for quality of life would be a more immersive mechanic though. Some ships would be outfitted from the beginning with everything but others would be basic and you could upgrade for your play style.
Sorry I'm late to the party (just crashed into a moon I couldn't see, so found my way here...) There's no reason they couldn't do a little of both...
As in there's no reason why there needs to be just one type/quality of "night vision", just of the top of my head you could have:
Classic image intensification
The green one, taking the light that is there and cranking up the gain of the light that's already there.
Short range but passive
Thermal imaging
Usually Infra red, but no reason why a future variant couldn't be dynamic and switch to UV
Longer range, generally better than image intensifiers.
Virtual landscape
Wire mesh based on GPS location and mapping data
Very basic & cheap but no data on locations/vehicles/vegetation
Should at least stop you crashing into the dark side of a planet.
Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR)
Uses radar to create an image based on the returns.
Active system & expensive but produces good images
Can see through clouds etc
LIDAR
Like SAR but using lasers.
Better quality, but shorter range & can be blocked by clouds etc
There's 5 possible technologies from the top of my head that exist irl that they could have in game, each with their own pros and cons.
You could give every ship the virtual landscape one to start with the option of upgrading to better systems like image intensification.
Military ships would likely start with thermal imagers (as well as their own radar) as the default and might go for LIDAR as an addition/upgrade/sidegrade to help them find (thermal) stealth targets.
Exploration ships should come with either Synthetic Aperture Radar or LIDAR as standard, with the option to add more types of sensors in addition to be able to have the best of all worlds since that's their thing.
Then within each type of sensor, there should be better and worse models, that have better range & clarity, plus the amount of power they draw etc.
Some might go straight through to your HUD, but some might only be available through the multi-function displays. Lower power versions of some of the passive systems like II or IR should be available for use through your visor while on foot too (though not by default).
I like that idea too. I think more customization would be a lot of fun in this regard because it might allow for some novel uses of ships. I personally really like certain ships, but they aren’t necessarily the best for what I want to do with them but customization like this could make for some interesting styles.
You do have the tools necessary to fly at night though. Yeah you have to be careful on approach, but any pilot worth their salt needs to be able to fly by instruments. Not just for night but for any other situation like weather or scifi nonsense where visibility is limitied.
I agree with the sentiment of the other poster, though, that it would make sense for certain types of ships to have different sensor packages on them, which might include IR imaging. Could even be a feature of certain helmets if the idea is to have night vision through your cockpit window and not through an MFD, which is how that would make the most sense IMO. I dont think our ship windows double as an electronic display
Problem currently, at least on moons and planets: ( Saying this as a military/combat pilot for a while ) - No ground radar, and altimeter is relayed as absolute from some point of the center of the body, and not relative ( meaning the altimeter doesn’t account for changes in terrain ) yet. If you’re in very dark or adverse weather, I have seen more than several pilots eat proverbial sh** because of the functional limitations of IFR. Hopefully, it all goes in as soon as possible.
I can comfortably agree there. It would be useful to have better ranging equipment. Currently I spend a lot of time toggling my quantum drive on and off while I'm in atmosphere so I can check my bearing against the jump markers. But it would be great to have, say, a DF on board that could tell me I am recieving signals and give me headings. Something like that might also give you feedback if terrain is blocking you. For the most part though, I tend to fly above 4,000 so I dont really worry about slamming into a hillside. Only issue is high altitude makes it harder to see your target on the ground.
Most civilian ships should have a thing called synthetic vision. It's basically like displaying a computer graphic overlay of the terrain in the cockpit. This can be standalone, or combined with blended vision system that displays a thermal/IR view of the terrain ahead.
Should have a toggle for 'wiremap' which illuminates the terrain with the scanner, at the cost of increased power usage and a much higher signal
I love this or a way to keep the ping data up till you dismiss it. If they did that we could use ping and up date ping as we move through the approach. Not a lot of coding just give us a toggle with ping.
its coming
In a perfect world, I'd want both a "passive" option that works like a traditional IR camera that's cheaper in terms of power usage and doesn't impact stealth, and an "active" option that does really high definition wire mapping like you describe but at higher costs
That might be a ship component, or a blade or something for stealth ships to equip. The two default options would be powerful lights, which is low sensor but high visual, or wiremap which is low visual but high sensor. Then the passive IR camera could be a balancing choice
Image enhancement, engaged.
In a universe that has quantum drives, not having night vision is ridiculous.
However, in a universe that isn’t finished being yet it makes a little more sense ;)
Fair enough. But, they could lay off the new ships and work on core mechanics instead.
Sure :) I think the people designing and building ships aren’t the ones creating core mechanics. At least if you don’t count ships as a core mechanic.
The project is also financial dependent on ship sales, so it does make sense to a certain degree. At least I think so
"Hey Jim I know you're a 3D designer but could you please come code the rendering engine instead?"
You're aware they're different teams right? And CIG "laying off the new ships" would 1, basically mean they'd need to lay off the vehicle teams because like, the vehicle design teams are there to do that, not something else. And 2, would mean their income stops, which means they can't make the game at all.
Well, perhaps Jim should be let go so that a coder capable of working on the rendering engine could be hired?
Reddit - starcitizen - "something something stop selling ships and fix your game" https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7qvzns/something_something_stop_selling_ships_and_fix/
But then they will make less money.
I'm in the National Guard aviation and even I have NVGs.
My flight gear, uniform, and helmet don't match... but I have NVGs
tbh I dont particularly like night vision in games because it defeats point of darkness. So it's a valid design choice
A wireframe ground radar view would be cool, but have had enough of "night is irrelevant" in arma series.
Sorry I'm late to the party, but just to counter that with...
But then people could also gamma "hack" just like they do in other games that rely on darkness, so the people playing "as intended" are at a severe disadvantage to the ones who are borderline cheating.
They should give legitimate tools that allow you to see, but at the same time are not as good as daylight so there's still a definite day/night difference... Like make it limited range, or reduced quality etc.
I'd rather them give just enough tools to dissuade people fiddling with their monitors to keep everyone on a level playing field.
I would kill for a night vision tier system or upgrades for helmets. Cheapo would be the NVG kids today use and the more advance high end would be a wire mesh… also GIB parachutes plz.
Just like AI has been outlawed since the butler jihad, nightvision falls under the same laws as family atomics. Only to be kept in stock to maintain the balance. Oh wait.. wrong universe… I just saw the demo again with the gigantic worm on the desert planet with the downed capital ship and things got messed up in my head.
Lol
Id be willing to trade parachutes for drop pods 😎
I could also see there being Xi'an 'parachutes' that is just a belt anti-grav that slows you enough to survive.
My thoughts are that that sounds absolutely fucking lit. It was something I didn’t even know I needed.
I've crashed into too many planets....
Image and vision enhancement gear absolutely should be a thing.
You can't ask for realistic things in SC. Where is the fidelity in that?
Its 2951, ppl had such tech in mere 2000...
Meh, I've tried that argument before....I still don't have a sun visor in my ship.....
I'd get that as an optional system to be added directly to the front window... No HUD, nothing just an add-on to the ship
Like a throw back to the old Mech Warrior days?
Exactly, many many systems :) imagining 10 years down the road lol
I've talked about this for a long time.
Optics and glasses of helmets (cockpits) must have different filters, such as anti-glare, night vision, thermal imager .. Much of this will directly affect the gameplay. Perhaps they will add something in the future.
You can use the scanner's ping and even weapon shooting when closer.
Adapt. Improvise. Overcome.
Ghetto rigging a solution shouldn't be a fix to space ships 900+ years into the future not having a way to fly in the dark.
We literally today have things like this for pilots in fighter jets. I'm supposed to believe 900+ years in the future that technology has been lost? lol
Don't worry, the Empire "reverse engineer's" more Vanduul tech in 2952 (date not confirmed). One such tech is enhanced optics...but only months after CIG implements punishing new atmospherics and super dark nights.
;)
Sounds about right :D
Star Citizen is not a realistic game set in the future. It's a game based on the aesthetic of WW2 air combat set in the future. There will be design decisions around this. Otherwise none of us would even fly the ships, it would be all computer flown.
The dude flying your 737 isn't using night vision lol. I dont think any pilots in the world are. If anything, its the operators who crew the airplane using night vision for a military purpose. The rest of them are flying by instruments, which is the way it has been done for decades. Radar pings and altometers arent "ghetto solutions" lol
Instruments tied to the coordinate data of a well-mapped planet with known, current atmospheric information, satellite -referenced positioning systems and sometimes inertial - navigation systems. Some random rocky moon ain't going to have such data, so radar or some other advanced system is going to have to do.
I didn't say they were? The person I replied to suggested using two things, the scanner ping that does momentarily image the ground and surrounding area in your HUD and firing your ships weapons, in order to literally see in the dark. Those are the ghetto solutions.
Altimeters are nice and all but they don't let you know there is a mountain or hill you're flying towards at a 300+ m/s do they?
If people are using the scanner ping to literally see the ground in the dark already, why not add an actual NVG style HUD element that lets you see the ground? As someone suggested elsewhere here it could be a module you need to equip to your ship so it has a downside of not being able to fit other things you'd want. So people who want to continue firing their weapons and using their scanner to see in the dark can do so.
There is plenty passenger aircraft that have a HUD and a thermal camera that can be displayed on said HUD for night and bad weather navigation.
It's a game, forcing gameplay through limitation is the entire point.
That works for some things.
Forcing players to use features not designed for night vision to mimick night vision is lazy development.
If Frontier, one of the most out of touch devs in the industry, can add a night vision mode to their ships there is zero reason CIG can't do it.
Hell if they plan on adding NVGs for foot soldiers, that'll work too since that's how modern fighter pilots do it when needed. It doesn't need to be a ship feature if they want to be lazy about it.
There is, they don't want night / wire vision by design because it renders low light / storm conditions trivial to traverse.
Personally I hate that FDEV included night vision in E:D and would do the same here if CIG decided to add it.
forcing the players to adjust the gamma settings of their monitors is completely beside the point though.
Having a display of the terrain ahead in 3D based on radar returns was already a thing in the 1960s A-6 Intruder all weather bomber
"weapon shooting when closer" to measure distance... found the hillbilly
Night vision also doesn't provide good depth-perception, generally (or so I've read - I've not experienced it myself).
Personally, I'd prefer a wire-overlay of the terrain... with the added bonus that this would also work to highlight Asteroids in space etc (especially when in a planets shadow, or similar).
Given CIG dynamically generate the planetary surface as you move over it, it should be possible for them to add such a mesh as part of the surface generation (or even just simplify the existing mesh) and then make it glow green (or other hud colour) when piloting?
Like the style shown in Aliens?
Only monotube NV devices have bad depth perception, dual tubes are very much like seeing normally, and then there is quad tube...
I would prefer it to be some type of upgrade that can be applied to ships and helmets. I would even be down to see some thermal on guns scopes and such. But it has to be balanced where it's obtainable by everyone, but surrounded by things that make the whole process inconvenient. In a way making it better to learn how to play without it over going through the trouble to obtain the ability after each death or lost ship.
Personally, I love not having night vision. Landing on the dark side of a moon or planet is a challenge. You have to go in slower, keep your lights on, and use everything you can to see things you can't. Kind of like landing the original moon lenders, you get your altitude and speed and go from there. This is a game based on actual skill and reputation. That being said don't expect to be a master at everything in the game. If you're a pilot who botches every night landing then no player will hire you, simple as that.
Terrain avoidance systems that can display the ground in a 3D view where already a thing during the.1960s So why should we not have that tech 900 years in the future
I think stuff like that should come with disadvantages, like a ship module or something.
So you can opt for nightvision and fly like its daytime and miss out on some other module you could have there instead.
Or you could fly carefully when its dark and use the module slot for other functionality.
Not everything needs a downside, but you should definitely be able to turn it of so people like you can get the additional challenge they require.
I think something that gives you a benefit should come with a downside as well.
I don't understand the question.
"Judging distance from the surface in the dark"
"Yes, I know there is an altimeter"
You answered your own question. Use the altimeter.
As for night vision, yes, but for other reasons than seeing planet surfaces in the dark like your enemies and navigating dark corridors and tunnels and seeing through smoke.
Altimeter is not a solution when you are about to hit an invisible mountain
There must be something wrong with your monitor's settings because when you get close you can see the surface. The alt tells you when you are close. You also have lights.
The altimeter shows "mean sea level" altitute, not above ground altitude.
So the altimeter is always measuring the distance to the ground beneath you?
I use the scan. Hit tab, use your barring and height measurements to find your target
The new scanner ping is nice I think
But that's only a workaround and on foot you are lost.
I'm definitely down for ship components that provide different kinds of HUD AR overlays. Maybe blades can be used for that stuff.
We. Need. This.
I just hit the scan button in the dark to get an idea if im going to slam into a mountain and eyeball my alt meter. Night vision would be cool though
The topic has come up once or tw...ohundred times ... ;)
Yes, nighttime in SC is pretty bad considering the amount of personal lights or night vision we (don't) have.
It has been asked since 2014, draw your conclusions. :D
Probably because of people like me who play Batman Arkham games in detective mode.
They're supposed to be adding a way to set a ping interval. That will allow you to highlight all surfaces in the game like a ping does. The downside will be that doing so will announce your presence to those nearby.
would also be hella useful to hqve ir goggles for dust storms that visible light can't penetrate.
Dust storms also block thermal scopes pretty well.
While thermal uses ir, it uses wavelengths that are still relatively close to visible light. I'm talking about goggles that could scan a much broader spectrum of light and adjust to be able to penetrate the dust. just like how if you aim a tv remote at your hand, some times it will still go through.
Maybe when radars are upgradable
Should be pretty easy to do with some post processing shader or something. And don't call me Shirley.
Scan. It helps immensely. But I could see some aftermarket upgrade to give your ship some nightvision. Will cost computer power though.
Same with a personal helmet with one. Sure it can exist, but it'll be a trade-off whether or not to get a helmet with it.
CIG has already mentioned that night vision shouldn't be too difficult to integrate, but that thermal is another story as they will have to go in and add a heat map to the environments and many objects.
Spam tab it’s the closest thing we have for now!
Lights, your hud and ping. That's it
We have ping for that but yea would be cool
Night vision? I'd be satisfied with lights that point downward....
Would be cool if you could set an mfd to show a night vision camera.