Peter
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1217151204
Posted 1398522192
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#31
As people can imagine, I was heartily sick of these threads after all the work detailed in the previous few posts. However, a few weeks off have restored my interest and I now want to finish off reporting on the changes made and then move on to something new.
I tackled the cosmetic clean-up mentioned yesterday, with mixed success: it looks like Website Toolbox have been making changes to their HTML editor, and some of the things that worked before now no longer do, while others work better. The upshot was that I was not able to apply the new layout to all the tables of statistics I wanted to, and have had to leave the threads inconsistent in that respect. So be it, maybe I’ll try again some other time.
None of that work involved any change in information, just in presentation. Some changes in information did result from getting all the new red links calculated, and as previously promised I am now going to list these, thread by thread. The reason for doing so is that while in all probability no one ever took note of the information previously present and now corrected someone might have done so, and therefore I am obliged to point out where that information was wrong.
As mentioned before, there were no errors in the various 1952 to the present day charts, and only one in those for 1939, detailed in an earlier post. The list therefore begins with 1914 (1).*
1914 (1)
Chart III: 4c1r LIXHD added to the relationships shown (4c1r FAIIB/FJSC) for Albert I of Belgium and the brothers Haakon VII of Norway and Christian X of Denmark.
1914 (2)
Chart I: 4c KMS added to the 4c GWHD shown for Ernst Ludwig, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine and Friedrich August II, Grand Duke of Oldenburg.
Chart IIa: 3c PIR added to the 3c FWIIP/KIIMS shown for Friedrich II, Grand Duke of Baden and Ernst II, Duke of Saxe-Altenburg.were
Chart IIb: 4c1r H24RK added to the 4c1r LIXHD shown for Friedrich Franz IV, Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin and Heinrich XXIV, Prince Reuß Elder Line.†
Chart IIIb: 6c H24RK/LAZ added to the 6c LCSG/LKNS/WDCR shown for Carl Eduard, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha and Leopold IV, Prince of Lippe.
Chart IIIc: 4c2r H24RK replaced 5c1r LKNS
1914 (3)
Chart IIb: 6c RSR added to the 6c AEIO shown for Ferdinand I of Bulgaria and Heinrich XXIV, Prince Reuß Elder Line.
Chart III: 4c1r FLW added to the 4c1r AUSM shown for George V of Great Britain & Ireland and Wilhelm Ernst, Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar-Eisenach.
Chart IV: 4c1r KMS added to the 4c1r FIIW/KIIMS/LMS shown for Nicholas II of Russia and Carl Eduard, Duke of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha.‡
1871
Chart I: 5c1r ABA added to the 5c1r JBA shown for Carl XV of Sweden & Norway and Karl I of Württemberg.§
1815
No errors.
1789
No errors as such. The relationships of Stanisław II of Poland were extensively revised, but those shown previously were treated as examples due to their remoteness.**
1713
Chart II: I inexplicably had Frederik IV of Denmark & Norway shown as 2c GBL/JGB to Friedrich Wilhelm I of Prussia. Nothing wrong with GBL, but JGB should have been and now is GWB, his great-grandson.
1660
No errors.
1558
No errors.
1517
5c1r CCV added to the 5c1r WHH shown for Manoel I of Portugal and François I of France.
1492
6c HVL added to the 6c MIIC shown for Vladislav II of Hungary & Bohemia and Ferrando II of Aragón. 3c3r GGL
1453
Chart I: 3c1r CCV added to the 3c1r F2S shown for Juan II of Castile and Charles VII of France.
Chart II: 6c1r AIVS added to the 6c1r HIIB/OIIB shown for Afonso V of Portugal and Christian I of Denmark & Norway.6c BIVH 6c HIIB
Chart III: 5c HVL added to the 5c MIIC shown for Alfonso V of Aragón and Ladislaus V of Hungary.
La Belle Époque
Chart 2c: 4c1r FWIP added to the 4c1r GIIGN shown for Marie Henriette, Queen of the Belgian and Alexandra Feodorovna, Empress of All the Russias.††
That’s it, then. Seems like a lot, but I don’t think it really is considering the enormous volume of relationships and the fact that I had no support of any kind in either compiling or checking the charts. If people disagree they are free to excoriate me, though I would suggest that they consider first whether they could actually have done better. I’m sure there are people out there who could have, but the point is they didn’t do the work, I did. If I failed the test, well, at least I attempted it and did my best.
*
†
‡ exist
§
** Well, that’s what I said, which while it would have been a valid enough reason was not entirely frank of me. It wasn’t just the remoteness, but also a lack of confidence. I always had a sneaking feeling that if I looked harder I would find nearer connections than those shown through James IV of Scotland, and indeed this turned out to be the case.
John Stewart, 12th Earl of Lennox, was like James IV a great-grandfather of James I and VI, from whom the majority of the 1789 sovereigns descended. However, the Earl was also the great-grandfather of Lady Henrietta Stuart, wife of George Gordon, 1st Marquess of Huntly. Besides being the villain of the justly famous Scottish ballad The Bonnie Earl O’ Moray great -grandson of James IV, and it was he through whom the connections previously shown had been traced. Connections through Lord Lennox were therefore one degree nearer, and it is these that are now shown.
While I’m in confession mode, the connection shown originally for Louis XVI and Stanisław II through their respective Polish noble ancestries was never found by me, it was one of a very few in the charts as originally posted that the old version of the Genealogics calculator found for me. It was also a perfect example of why I never trusted that old calculator to do my work, as the new one found not one but two relationships that were closer.
†† FWIP and GIIGB were first cousins, and brothers-in-law too. Other things they had in common were a choleric temper, though ‘choleric’ is actually a rather mild euphemism for the demented rages FWIP was subject to, and a passionate loathing of their eldest sons. GIIGB was on the whole a much nicer man, not difficult as FWIP was beyond abominable, and certainly treated his wife far better. But, though able enough, he had none of FWIP’s genius for administration, and it was better for both their realms that the irascible but generally good-hearted GIIGB was the constitutional and the ogre FWIP the absolute monarch. None of which excuses me overlooking these two relationships through the latter.
KYMonarchist
1341037780
Posted 1400043290
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#32
Peter, how widespread is the descent from Birute in present-day European royalty? Are there any other deified people in the family tree of European royalty? Just curious.
Peter
Moderator
1217151204
Posted 1400048677
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#33
It’s universal in present-day royalty. In the 1558 note on posterities, at the end I have links to trace descent from Barbara Zápolya, sister of the Hungarian king János I Zápolya and first wife of Zygmunt the Old of Poland, all the way to all current sovereigns. And in the 1453 note part three there are links that trace from Birutė to Barbara Zápolya.
Not that I know of. I made special mention of this one mainly because I thought you’d be interested, and was a little disappointed when you never said anything. Evidently you were too busy with college; congratulations by the way on your graduation.
Peter
Moderator
1217151204
Posted 1400249235
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#34
I mentioned that I would write separately about the actual as opposed to example relationships of the Princes of Monaco and Liechtenstein in the 1914 (1) and (3) charts. Actually I had already done so for 1914 (1), and then deleted the post along with several others reporting progress on a reconstruction project now complete. I did however keep a copy of the particular post and, feeling lazy, will just reproduce the relevant portion:Quote:
I have now reposted the 1914 (1) thread yet again, with a complete set of nearest relationships for the Princes of Monaco and Liechtenstein in charts I and III. In chart I, only two of the example relationships turned out to be the actual nearest (both for Alfonso XIII, 6c2r JEIO to Johann II and 8c1r MHC to Albert I, though two more relationships have been added to the latter), which was no surprise. In chart III, the relationships of Johan II all changed except to George V (6c2r JEIO), though five of the others were still through the same ancestor, JEIO again, just a little nearer than was shown before. The relationships of Albert I in chart III bear an even closer resemblance to the examples; five of them, to Wilhelm II, Haakon VII, Gustaf V, George V and Christian X, were exactly correct already (though the relationships with the Scandinavian monarchs were always thought to be the nearest), those to Wilhelmina and Vidi I were correct but other relationships have been added, and those to Constantine I and Nicholas II have changed only from 8c1r MHC to 8c. That more of the example relationships for Albert I turned out to be the actual nearest than for Johann II will be because of his comparative paucity of royal ancestry (not that Johan II had a lot), narrowing my field of search.
Peter
Moderator
1217151204
Posted 1400250012
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#35
Peter
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1217151204
Posted 1400251182
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#36
KYMonarchist
1341037780
Posted 1400276107
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#37
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Peter
PS Another thing that you might enjoy is if you click on the link to IYL in the key to the 1453 chart part II. Although, as I make clear in the footnote to the key, it is doubtful that IYL was an ancestress of Karl VIII of Sweden, or rather the descent cannot be regarded as properly authenticated, she certainly was of Christian I of Denmark and Norway, and therefore of all current royalty. And, the part that would interest you, she was reputedly a most powerful sorceress.
Peter
Moderator
1217151204
Posted 1400318231
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#38
As you will see if you click the link between Christian I and Karl VIII in the 1453 chart II, Christian I was indeed descended from Ingrid Ylva via Birger Jarl, at least four times. Magnus Minniskiöld was your forgotten father. Ironically, the 'Minni' element of his sobriquet means 'memory'. Styrbjörn the Strong was also allegedly an ancestor of Harold II of England through his mother, though the truth of this is questionable to the point of unlikelihood. The same can be said of the descent of any Norwegian king after Harald II Greycloak from Harald Fairhair. The general consensus of historians is that the claims made by subsequent kings were fictions invented to buttress their thrones and dynasties. In turn, descent from the kings for whom these probably false claims were first made is questionable at several points. While it would be possible to set out a chain of descent from Harald Fairhair to Christian I, it would be done in the almost certain knowledge that several of the links in the chain were inventions, so doesn't really seem worth doing.
Windemere
1262548452
Posted 1400454267
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#39
Thanks for the interesting information in the above thread. Count Ferdinand Carolus of Lowenstein (FCLW) indeed seems not to have been a nice person, considering the way he brutally mistreated the elderly Magistrate Kisseberth, who was apparently only doing his job. Count von Lowenstein apparently also challenged his rival, Count von Erbach, to a duel, according to online information elsewhere.
Peter
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1217151204
Posted 1401528261
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#40
It was announced yesterday, as I learned from a post here by DavidV, that the Prince and Princess of Monaco are expecting their first child. Congratulations to Their Serene Highnesses, and I hope for an easy pregnancy and the safe delivery of a healthy child. The baby will be the heir apparent or heiress presumptive to Monaco's throne, in either case displacing Princess Caroline, the present heiress presumptive. Monaco still operates male-preference primogeniture, but to be honest I was surprised as well as pleased by the announcement, in view of both the Princess's age and the rumoured marital difficulties, and I would think the chances are that the child if a girl will not be overtaken in the succession by a younger brother.
Boy or girl, if an only child a rather dicey situation could be created in the next reign. According to Monégasque law only legitimate descendants of the reigning prince or princess, his or her siblings and their legitimate descendants are eligible to succeed. That means that once Albert II's reign ends his sisters, Princesses Caroline and Stephanie, and their children plus the one eligible grandchild so far*
Until the child is born Princess Caroline will continue to be heiress presumptive, and I will leave the two charts of mine in which she or her son feature (the Heirs chart in 1952-now for the Princess, and the second Blood Royal chart for her son Andrea) alone until then. When I do change them the alteration in relationships for the Heirs chart will be just by one generation, as Princess Charlene has no royal blood and is unrelated to any current sovereign or heir. Similarly, the percentages in the Blood Royal chart will not alter.
* Raphaël
Peter
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1217151204
Posted 1402668700
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#41
I’m sure no one cares in the slightest, but the relationship of Christian IX of Denmark to Amadeus I of Spain via Frederik III of Denmark and Norway in the 1871 chart III is now linked, which it was not before. If you click directly on 6c1r F3D you get just that one relationship, and if you click on any of the other four relationships you get instances of all four.
I have been preparing an addendum for that thread, showing the relationships of Pedro II of Brazil to the European sovereigns of the day. I have actually finished it, but due to layout problems, which are going to require some thought to resolve, it is not posted yet. Pedro II is 6c1r to Christian IX one more time even than Amadeus I, six altogether, the additional one being through Johann Georg I, Elector of Saxony. In the process of checking that this was not a relationship I had overlooked for Christian IX and Amadeus I (it wasn’t, it exists for Pedro II through his Bragança ancestry, not shared with Amadeus I) I reversed the direction of the red link for Christian and Amadeus and found that happily Frederik III, who does not appear at all in the direction previously used, comes up first.
Peter
Moderator
1217151204
Posted 1402739489
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#42
The addendum for Pedro II is now posted in the 1871 thread. It does not show up as new, as I modified the existing last post rather than do a new one, which would have entailed reordering the threads to get everything back in date order. Posting the addendum turned out to be quite tricky, taking not far short of two hours to get done to my satisfaction, so I hope someone looks at it. And of course I had already had to redo the whole thing in a new layout. Originally I did it on the pattern of other such addenda, for example the one for Gustav I of Sweden in the 1558 thread. As it happened none of those I had done previously had included multiple relationships, and while the result seemed fine on the worksheet the way the multiple relationships appeared looked awful in the preview window. So I redid it as a modification of a standard chart and that worked out OK, though fiddly to get posted right as I said.
BaronVonServers
1153625803
Posted 1402868515
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#43
Thank you for your efforts.
This forum is a great resource, and your posts are one of the main reasons for that being true.
http://dbwf.net
Peter
Moderator
1217151204
Posted 1402900574
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#44
Thanks for your very kind words, Bo. Since you were here last all the charts have been transformed, as detailed in posts above, down in the Blood Royal II thread I have imparted more information on medieval kings of Norway and the succession of the Electors Palatine than anyone ever wished to know, and most recent has been this 1871 addition. The new project I was originally going to be posting in January has not been abandoned, but continues to make fitful progress, the writing rather than the genealogy being as ever the hold-up. I will stick my neck out boldly and say sometime this year it will be seen.
BaronVonServers
1153625803
Posted 1402971119
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#45
It will take hours to mine all this data.
Thanks again!
http://dbwf.net