I decided to join some IT forums on FB and find out for myself what’s going on. I’ll be collecting some firsthand accounts, much like I did with the Common Core and public school stuff.
Here is a post from someone:
I was watching the video from the outsourced Disney IT staffer. I’ve been hearing stories like this for several years. I have seen signs of it in my own specialty for quite a while, plus offshoring, along with people working very long hours because of short staffing. As an IT professional, I consider the misuse of H1B to be beyond disgusting. We’ve been told over and over by members of Congress that this is meant to fill areas where there are shortages of experienced people. Yet I go to events full of people in IT who can’t get work, I’ve even talked to hiring managers who are given such absurd rules of who they can hire that H1B turns into an option for them. I see job specs that are beyond absurd – all sorts of tech and business skills that take many years to acquire, yet they only want 1-2 years experience. You can smell the H1B excuse being put together.
What I don’t get; companies like Disney need customers who can afford their goods and services, yet they cut way back on their US jobs so heavily that sooner or later no one will be able to afford them. Super short sighted. And it is killing the middle class.
And here are some replies to said post:
I worked for AIG back in the 90’s, just after they had laid off most of their programming staff and sent their jobs to India.
It had absolutely nothing to do with the Indians being better programmers, they were cheaper.
Finally, after all these years, this nightmare is finally getting some attention.
I had a cousin laid off by AIG years back; wonder if there was any connection to H1B.
Old Hank Greenberg was a pioneer in offshoring. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did use H1bs too.
There was a lot of anger at the NJ data center after the layoff, but the remaining employees felt powerless to do anything.
There was high turnover and it was basically what I’d call a “sweatshop”.
GREED at the top. Other people can be (and are) greedy, but the upper-executives can actually DO something about padding their own pocketbooks, so they do. Their wages are already sky-high, but MORE $ is what they want, and a golden parachute to boot.
And another post:
Texas Public Schools have been using visa worker teachers for years. Other districts include San Antonio/Austin, Dallas/Ft. Worth.
Don’t know if other states are doing it.
It’s flaming disgusting. Bet Scot Walker, Kochroach Bros., DeVos gang love it – they think teachers are overpaid. Let them try teaching for a while. They couldn’t handle it.
And here are some replies to that one:
I posted one below about public school teachers…One I easily remembered because it was such a large lawsuit…I recall reading other stories of teacher trafficking in the Chicago area if I am not mistaken…and complaints of their older American teachers being pushed out who were vocal about it..It’s probably pretty widespread by now.
When I first started researching this stuff 4-5 years or so ago…it looked like Nurses and IT workers have been hit the hardest, with teachers on the chopping block right behind those professions. Also, the lawyer who gave the seminar on “how to avoid hiring Americans”…well that lawyer has heavy ties with government…and it looks like said law group is now focusing on medical professions as their target now…radiologists, etc etc etc. Doctors still have some safeguards though….they have their lobbying groups to offer protection…plus stricter rules of course due to quality concerns etc.
meanwhile, here in Texas, the texas workforce commission will tell you unemployment is 4.9% and everybody that wants to work has a job as there are plenty of jobs to go around – our silence enables this
It’s not “our silence”…I’m vocal about it, as are many others here in this group. It’s the silence of others…others who are informed but who choose to not spread information…we can’t force them…you know this. I personally find it disgusting when I have informed friends of this and they chose to ignore it…friends with children no less…but what can you do.
sorry, by silence I mean we are not banding together and forming a coalition of STEM workers with dues each month of say five bucks so that we can air these stories on national tv on a daily basis – we have the resources to compete with the likes of FWD.us and others and go toe to toe with them in the media – but we are silent – that is the silence that I refer to when I say that our silence enables them
Look at who controls the mainstream media t.v….and mainstream internet news…corporations control it…so even if we could collect enough money to air more information it will not be aired mainstream…we would need our own network..you are talking huge $$$… and we would need more than just STEM workers to amass that sort of wealth..and most STEM workers are barely surviving as is.
Now…places like Breitbart have been gaining in popularity and they have reported on these issues…I am hoping to see more of it…but we shall see. My opinion…our best bet is to just inform as many people as we can…and if at least one person spreads information…well it’s a slow chain reaction but better than nothing. I used to go into many different comment sections on various sites posting info…took a break from it because I see more evidence now that many others are spreading info now as well…5 years or so ago I was not seeing hardly anyone saying anything…it’s gaining steam now…gives me a little hope.
In to a response to an article on H1B visa reform, someone said:
I can testify to the accuracy of this article since I was employed at Northeast Utilities which was mentioned in this article. I had to train unqualified H1B individuals who would be taking my job as well as those of 219 other American IT workers at Northeast . When I was let go, my pink slip said I was laid off due to lack of work. Now, 3 years later my job is still there, being done by a H1B but guess who isn’t there – ME – the American IT who had to train the H1B worker who got to keep my job.
Just as a follow-up, I had to sign a non- disclosure document which stated that I would never reveal what went on at Northeast or I would be sued for my severance. I decided to not hide in the shadows but to talk as to what actually happened and the effects it has on the lives of those of us who get replaced by H1Bs.
Here is another post:
H1 B visa attracting the Best and brightest … BALLS ! what a shitty joke is that … Speaking as someone who was unceremoniously chased out of Engineering because my prospective employers preferred to hire two Indians for the price of me (good luck with that, BTW), there are plenty of home-grown American girls and boys who can hold their own against the “skills” of South Asian slave labor. these HI B assholes then sponsor their wheel chaired parents and gand parents who to come to the land of the “FREE” and become net PARASITES consumers of our social benefits … H1B is a giant sop to the likes of FaceSHIT and Disney, allowing them to pocket more profit while tossing Americans out of work !
And another post:
You would feel the same way if you were in our shoes. you dont understand, people are losing their homes, and cannot find jobs right away because foreigners are here taking all the jobs for cheap. Hes hit it on each point, even interviews. I had a friend who was doing a job, it got outsourced, he went in for a interview for his job, his tech interview consisted of the indian managers asking him what dropdowns , lists would he use. Nobody has this stuff memorized, instead of looking at his skill set, he was set up to fail and did. The funny thing is when his time was up they couldnt repace him because they couldnt find anyone to take over his job. Eventually they found someone, and they released him. Americans are angry and rightly so.
And another post:
I’ve had friends that told me to get over it, its a global economy. yeah well, you all paid for my unemployment, my mortgage assistance and for my retraining, so dont think it doesnt hurt you too. Its not right and it needs to stop. I just hope Trump does the right thing. This is why he got elected, people are mad and they arent going to take it anymore. Ive been outsourced twice in a row-years part. First tme, i’ll never forget the indian contractor asked me how I did so much work! After I left I heard they hired 3 indians to replace me. And that manager had the nerve to ask me to help them AFTER i left the company. I told him, sorry, in this country when we leave a job we leave it, if you dont have qualified people to do my job, you should not have told the company you could do it. If you want to rehire me at my rate ok, otherwise sorry. I want to the the laws changed. We have a right to have work in our country.
And another post:
I get about 5 calls and 30 emails a day, all from Indian recruiters, and 99% of them horrible attempts to place me in a position that doesn’t fit my resumes or online profiles. And I mean dramatically; as in mandatory required skills aren’t listed even as buzzwords. They even ignore my header saying “Raleigh NC area only” or my minimum salary. I’ve learned a few things about this.
1. They always try to get you to call them, even though most have extremely poor communication skills and a text based medium like email or chat is far more effective. By talking to you, or by pitching a few month contract with no overtime or benefits on the other side of the country, it’s more likely they can determine your age or visa status. Since young people on visas are willing to move every few months just to stay in the country, or other Indians would not have a problem understanding them.
2. This is a false attempt to place me. The real goal is to be able to claim they performed a “local talent search first” by making sure you aren’t a fit and would never take the job. They can then push lesser qualified people under a visa. IF YOU RESPOND you are helping to provide them confirmation of their attempt.
3. They all seem to use the same mailing and unsubscribe service, and many send the same application form. It’s obviously from centralized sources.
I’m sure I’m not alone in this experience.
And here are some replies to said post:
I too have been contacted in the same manner. I was told that most of them just need to get the contact information to fill their quota to find people. Most of the time when I ask for specifics about the position to confirm that I am qualified they cannot give it to me. Not even the second person that they pass me off to. Most of them want to place me at a company that is out of State. Americans have roots and India citizens will go anywhere. Your assessment is spot on.
Back around 1999 when my name first started appearing in anti-H-1B debates, I got a phone call from a guy selling want ads in a tech magazine (Byte, if memory serves). He was looking for a list of immigration lawyers he could pitch on buying bogus ads “looking” for programmers.
I don’t think they are that organized. These are mom and pop companies and nowadays there are Indian call centers assisting in search and these call centers hire anyone who speaks English. Most of the times they lack basic understanding of computer terminology. I am astonished how low educated group of foreigners completely control the IT recruiting industry. They are even placing the people in DoD. One of the main reasons is the collusion between hiring managers and recruiters.
There’s corruption going on. Want to know how could those Indian IT schools guarantee their graduates a job? They give kickbacks to hiring managers who in turn hire them.
Locals don’t stand a chance.
.corruption,nepotism—according to CIS.org 42% of H1B goes to people from just 2 Indian States (Andhara and Tamil Nadu) ….instead of IT industry , it seems a Tech Mafia more successful than South American Cartels
http://cis.org/
You are spot on Kevin and Sarab. Since ethics and moral is dead now, the government should bring some form of check and balance in the system to break this collusion between the agencies and hiring managers. This is infectious.
You’d be surprised how organized it is even as individual mom & pop efforts; there are public forums telling fellow Indians how to act in America, answers to certification test questions, what interviewers want to hear to every variety of interview question, getting fake education credentials, etc. Lots of resources available to individuals.
I won’t even work with a recruiter unless they are American. I don’t like giving the India recruiters my time. When my husband was looking I told him not to work with any of them too. He quickly learned that they were a waste of time since they all try to get you to relocate to a different State.
I’m willing to relocate to another state … but the quality of matches to my experience is poor. I can get a much better return on my time looking on my own. Also, given the overall situation, it’s beyond annoying to consider letting Indian companies be a middleman and take a cut when an American company is employing an American worker, even albeit for a temp contract role.
It is ridiculous! 90% don’t match my skills at all. For those that are close or if I can refer someone, I will try to get rate information to see if it’s even worthwhile to pass it along (especially if travel is involved). Many times they try to duck the question about rate or salary by saying “it’s open.” No way.
For anyone sending me an e-mail with a rate from the early 90’s ($25-$30 per hour Corp to Corp, for example) they get a Nastygram telling the to call 1-800-H1B-VISA.
I guarantee that the Indian job shops are skirting H1-B restrictions by brining over L-1 visa holders.
Some of these recruiters have a quota. They have to get X number of resumes for a given job in the next 24 hours. Their email messages seem to always use the word “URGENT” in caps. Then you discover that the job is a 3 month gig for $25/hour 2000 miles away.
I once was called by an Indian woman – I spoke kindly to her in the beginning. I then told her “You are calling from India are’t you?” She replied sheepishly, yes she was. That explained much to me. At the time I was puzzled how these people survive in the USA. This was 4 years ago. Since then I found about Magic Jack, then everything fell into place. I quote Wiki.
“Magicjack is a device that plugs into a USB port on the user’s computer (or in the case of magicJack Plus, plugs directly into a router) and has a standard RJ-11 phone jack into which any standard phone can be plugged. This allows the user to make unlimited phone calls to the U.S. and Canada.” Bottom line, Indians use US VoIP numbers and make it appear that they are working from the US. Magic Jack is only ONE of hundreds of these type of services.
Another trend I have noticed is that the Indian recruiters will interview a USA citizen, feed them hope for a job, but it is a setup to make these Indian recruiters look like they are actively recruiting American people when the actual final outcome is to hire the Indian. The USA IT person is left holding the bag.
Linkedin is where most of these India-based subcontractors with Magic Jack devices operate on. ALL honest US based recruiters on the site are SICK of these sub-contractors plying their Fakery and trade on Linkedin. As if 50% of the market cornered by the BIG-4 was not enough, these Fake bastards sitting in India are trying to gain a foothold in the rest of the 50% of the market as well and are succeeding lots of times. Honest US based recruiters are one-tenth of the number of these Fake CON-artists in India. Just by their sheer numbers they are able to contact MORE and MORE people in the USA (companies, honest recruiters, candidates ) they are mostly OPT, but since there are close to a million work visas these con-artists try to get a hold of ANY-Indian with any work visa-lawful or illegally gained and have been successfully placing them in IT jobs in the past few years.
from:(webmsi OR systelinc OR panzersolutions OR panzersols OR keshavconsulting OR @tscti. OR gupta OR @vui-inc OR cbsinfosys OR tata. OR infosys OR collabera OR hcl OR euclidinnovations OR Lancesoft OR pyramidci OR sharma OR kumar OR fido OR idctechnologies OR okayainc OR sagetl OR agreeya OR edoorsinc OR mindlance OR libsysinc OR talentburst OR intellisofttech OR @usgrpinc OR diversant OR nlbservices OR mastech OR usmsystems OR objectwin OR synechron OR itmmi OR myasap OR axiustek OR abacusservice OR krgtech OR tresourceinc )
I receive an e-mail from an Indian recruiter (besides others) that started off with this
Dear Professional,
Hope you are doing Good..
!!! H1-B ONLY LOCAL –
Title: Web Systems Administrator
Location: Edgewater Park, NJ
Duration: 6 month+ contract
Warm Regards,
Ajaz Khan |Sr. Technical Recruiter
Panzer Solutions LLC
50 Washington Street,
9th Floor, SONO Corporate Center
Norwalk CT 06854
Voice: 203-652-1444 /Ext: 149
Fax: 203-286-1457
And here is another post:
I get many calls and contacts from Indian IT recruiters doing resume screen scrapping matches, from various databases. Most of these have no context about my previous or current employment, no context of my geo location or preferences as a US citizen. Feels like a Visa worker, no home roots, shell matching game. 
😉 Wonder if all these false hits, are being used in any way to discredit American worker availability or tech readiness?
Here is a comment that I found on a Breitbart article:
>There are no Americans to take these jobs.
This is a lie, these jobs have plenty of qualified applicants, the employers simply make up fake postings with hyper-specific requirements custom-tailored to an H-1B applicant they already had in mind but unnecessary for the job, and then they post those in the local paper to prove that they “tried” to find a qualified domestic worker.
The other trick they use is going on LinkedIn, finding currently unemployed programmers who are in a different specialization (obviously not a fit for the position, like finding a C++ native programmer when what they need is a web developer), then they set up a phone interview to get that applicant’s contact information, and once they have that information they never contact the applicant again and ignore his/her phone calls.
For them, it’s all about gathering evidence that they tried to hire a domestic worker without actually intending to. They deliberately construct a process where the attempt is meant to fail. This fraud is very common and the fines for being caught are very low.
Go talk to domestic tech workers some time, almost all of them have experienced this at one point or another, and we’re all aware of the low quality of H-1B applicants. India is one of the worst abusers, these “educated” workers mass cheat their way through university and their work is widely agreed to be of uniformly poor quality. The liberal universities don’t want to be called “raycis” by cracking down on the mass cheating and they argue “it’s part of their culture”, so they ignore it.
It’s unbelievable the fraud Indians and H-1B employers get away with. H-1B is harming the American worker and damaging tech quality and reputation. It’s about time American tech workers got a President who is willing to crack down on the abuse of this terrible program.
And another comment from said article:
Go Daddy CEO is LYING just like stingy, Zuckerberg. They want the foreign workers for 2 reasons: they can pay them LESS than Americans and they can have more CONTROL over them than American employees
And here are some replies to said comment:
Exactly. My exhusband was in IT and in the dotcom days, there were a lot of jobs he was making more in 2001 than he is making now because the jobs he was doing, got taken up by all foreigners. Every good job started to dissolve and its great if you have a high degree, but the low-to-mid range jobs are not for Americans or even advertised anymore.
There’s an important third reason you’re missing – the glut of tech labor causes wages to stagnate. Suppose wages in the software industry have been depressed by $10k, a figure I would call extremely conservative, because of all of the foreign labor that has flooded the market. Microsoft employs two hundred thousand people, and let’s say half of those people are engineers – also a conservative figure. That’s a billion dollars a year savings, on top of the savings they clear from paying H-1Bs reduced wages. The few billion dollars that Bill Gates gives to charities as a distraction is nothing compared to what he’s getting payed in dividends by promoting the visa scam.
Correct. If you look at Michele Malkin’s, book Sold-Out, she /her co-author document how for years greedy, ultra-STINGY companies like FASCISTbook, Microsolft, etc. have been pushing for years for more foreign visa workers. Ultra-hypocrite Zuckerberg have been paying very large sums of INFLUENCE (bribe) money to Obama/ other political sluts/ whores to sell-out American workers. Also some of these ultra-greedy companies have paid ZERO federal taxes while even receiving corporate welfare for many of these deceptive work visa scams.
Here is another post from the FB IT forum:
The corporate lobby and the greedy politicians have lied so much about the skill shortage that no one with an iota of common sense believes them anymore. Lets assume for a moment these workers are really “high skilled”, how come their spouses get to work at the expense of the Americans. Are they presumed to be “High Skilled” just because they marry these workers. How about the students on OPT? How come they can apply for these visas with zero experience and be considered “High Skilled”.
Another lie that is perpetuated too often is only the body shops are the problem here and the companies like Google , Apple, Disney genuinely need the visas but the truth is they are undercutting the local worker in the same way, they just have more money to payoff the opinion makers.And they are able to get the cheap labor because the alien worker gets to live in the most advanced ,prosperous ,secure country in the world ie at the back of American taxpayers.
The solution is pretty simple. Test the market place for skill shortage and the wage gap. Scrap the H1B,L1,OPT right away. Any company that needs to import “highly skilled” workers should be made to pay atleast $150K minimum. The worker should be temporary ie no possibility of a green card/citizenship. The company should get a year to find a replacement or train the local staff. If they are unable to do so, the temp worker should get a 25% raise every year for a maximum of 5 years. This is a win win for everyone except the greedy companies.
Lets not believe these doomsday scenarios that predicts economic meltdown without imported workers. Remember every economist predicted a stock market crash in case of a Trump’s victory. These paid shills don’t sound very smart now , do they?
A study shows that computer programmer employer is down 11% because of H1B visas: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/02/14/study-h-1b-visas-reduced-computer-programmer-employment-by-up-to-11/
Here is another post:
MZ and other tech billionaires want slave labor and profits so they misguide our public and the President and senators and congressman that Americans are dumb, dont have skills or training to work in their companies so they need H1B visas and more than before. If they had their way, they would not hire even one American. One CS grad from UC Berkeley, topper from his HS, with 4.3GPA and 8 APs, one of only 2 students to get into UCB from his HS, applied to all the companies, including FB and did not get an interview. He is practically unemployed or underemployed for past 3 years. He gets job offers of 40k to 60k in silicon valley small firms, where the rent is $2500 for a room. The sad thing is that our CA congressman and senators depend on them for their election $$$$$ and do not fight the H!B visas. DOL knows its all fraud and that there are plenty of CS grads in America. Many work in small tech firms at 40 to 60k a year. Thankfully President Trump has atleast talked about the problem. The big tech companies have so much money that they have literally brainwashed the people and the the govt. The tech companies dont hire American grads as they would need to give benefits, and cant make them work 24/7 like they can do with H1B visa recipients. Microsoft interviewed some of the UCB grads, and told them to go work in start ups in the phone interview. MS did not even invite them for an interview in Seattle, greedy, dont want to pay for the interview. I hope President Trump does something about discontinuing H1B visas totally until our American citizen CS grads are fully employed.
If they dont get jobs, we the tax payers are on the hook for their $180K student loans for their education, as they cant pay it back.
And here is a post on a Breitbart article:
Less than 40% of the grads from some of the nations top schools including Cornell and UC Berkeley, in STEM, can verifiably find post-graduation jobs. That’s a national disgrace that so many of our best and brightest are being thrown away merely to hire foreigners.
Here is another post from the IT FB forum:
Go to Best Buy and you will be surprised how many kids working there with BS in Comp Sci because they can’t get a corp job.
And here are some replies to said post:
I was at my car dealership recently and my service rep was a recent grad with a Computer Science degree.
but it gets worse folks, many of us have had our credit destroyed because of lack of work – I was recently hired at walmart for a whopping ten per hour only to be told that they couldn’t bring me on because my credit was bad
Damn. It sickens me that companies aren’t required to compensate those affected much more generously. Not as though these companies are losing money. Just greedy execs funding their second and third vacation homes.
And here is another post:
Americans should cancel their FB accounts and should stop using Ebay. Ebay has more than 50 % foreign workers. I was told by an EBay employee on H1b that 80% workers in silicon valley are Indian or foreigners. Despite 500 million more spent by Hillary and full support from the tech billionaires and King Buffett, Trump won the WH on the silent and not so silent votes of the victims, who nobody paid attention to. If Trump does what he said he would do, he is sure to get the 8 years. Maybe tech tycoons should think again.
And another post:
The big tech companies are not tryng to hire qualified US citizens. Microsoft gives telephone interviews to CS grads from top UCs and tells them to go work in start ups. They have no intention of hiring them. FB does not even give an interview to US grads. Google gives phone interviews and rejects US grads and only considers US citizens with Masters degrees, but will hire H1B with bachelors degrees. All these tech firms should be forced to give names of US CS grads they interviewed and rejected and reasons for rejecting them, before they are give labor certification by the DOL. I believe the US college students in STEM field should all write to the POTUS that the H1B visas should be discontinued totally and the exceptional talented people should come on the exceptional talent category. These students who will graduate with 180k in loans need to get jobs otherwise students wont go to college in the future as there will be no reward for going to college and spending huge amount of money. In addition to jobs going to H1B visas, the foreign students who graduate from US universities are allowed to work for 2 or 3 years without H1B so that also takes away jobs from US citizens. I was told by some Indians that going to US Unversities is the easiest way to settle in the US.
And here is another post:
The STEM skill shortage myth is the root of the issue that needs to be exposed. Everything is based off of that. Why are we not importing lawyers, journalists, doctors en masse like we do tech workers? Heck congress with a rating in teens can use some best and bright senators from abroad. The reason we don’t import these professionals is because they have powerful lobby, strict standards and a compliant media. We can’t even get medicine from Canada but when it comes to the tech labor ,be my guest. And why does it happen? The proverbial “shortage”. That’s why the green card should be the only avenue to get an alien into this country. And all the professions should be a fair deal. Try demanding that and watch the visceral pushback.
Here are some comments about H1B visas in response to an online article about H1B visas:
First, let’s dispell with the notion of a shortage. Since 2000 IT salaries across the board have stagnated and dropped when accounting for inflation. When there is a shortage, wages rise. Basic supply and demand.
If there is a shortage, it is of people willing to work at reduced wages. Offshore outsourcing firms have difficulty attracting top talent because they pay so abysmally.
Next, name one time employers said “hey, we don’t have a shortage this year. We should hire local workers instead”. Never to my knowledge. Not in 2001 or 2002 post 9-11 when the economy tanked and unemployment in IT rose. In fact they raised the H-1b cap at that time – the worst possible time when people were trying to get back on their feet. And again in 2008 any talk of surpluses from industry as they shed workers? Crickets.
The bottom line is that you can’t trust a CEO to tell you when a shortage exists. The answer will always be “yes”. You should trust the data.
Unfortunately the circumstances of the labor market have no impact whatsoever on H-1b approvals. There is no relief when Americans are struggling.
Because this visa is based on a false premise of shortages and has been so systematically abused by both foreign and domestic firms, it’s time to take away this tool from companies. They can’t be trusted to use it properly.
If there is a shortage it is in very niche areas. The H-1b doesn’t give preference to workers with those niche skills. Most visas are awarded to outsourcing firms.
Sorry, my generosity is over. No more. The next CEO that claims a shortage had better bring facts to back it up. Not claims always unchallenged by the media. They can say whatever the hell they want if the media doesn’t challenge them and demand proof. But the media relies on them for ad revenue, and I wouldn’t expect the media to demand real answers.
The law fails us. Executives fail to show integrity. The media fails us. So no more. If Trump kills the entire program, you had it coming.
I’ve been developing software for 20 years as well. Many of the criticisms in the article are spot on. I’ve been laid off and then had to compete against folks willing to consider H1-B candidates. They tell me to my face. In order to get a foot into the interview I have to either lower my salary expectations or keep them exactly the same.
As someone else in these comments notes, there is wage stagnation in IT. I agree and I have felt it. I have even had Indian colleagues on green cards tell me *they* were having trouble competing with H1-Bs.
As the article also notes, it might depend on where you are. You can’t have every IT worker living in Austin.
There are some companies which has almost 90% of the employees are on H-1Bs. Not all the H-1B can find a project. In average 25% of the company sits on the bench. Well…There is a TRICK here. Where do they sit ? In California ? No. They sit in India. Why they sit in India ? That way company does not run payroll, Costs…These people can fly to USA in 24 hours. This is totally ILLEGAL.When the company files H-1Bs they get fake SOWs (Statement of Work). In SOW they say that H-1Bs will work at that location bla bla bla between these dates bla bla bla. Company A gets SOW from company B. company B is part of ponzi scheme as well. All FAKE. If you learn what these companies are doing , you will puke. I sometimes find it disgusting…As a human being.
Before the H-1B we got all the all the STEM workers we needed by way of free market capitalism. The free market is fabulous at responding to shortages and surpluses. The H-1B is government manipulation of the market place in favor of employers.
If, as advocates assert, a skill set is in short supply then in a free market that skill set should command a premium not an average wage. The H-1B allows employers to avoid paying that premium wage which harms Americans with that skill set. The employer is only required to pay an average no a premium wage to the foreigner.
We should end the H-1B and other forms of giving jobs to foreigners. That forces economic efficiency. The stronger firms are able to pay up for scarc skills and weaker firms go without. That is makes for a stronger nation. The H-1B allows weak firms to exist where free market capitalism would kill them off leading to a healthier economy.
One of the beauties of free market capitalism is that opinions do not count. Is there a shortage or a surplus? The free market will respond correctly no matter which it is.
I read this and can relate “One of my coworkers is working at a supermarket”.
Yes. I also know IT workers who are no longer working in IT. ALL American IT workers I know are sick of the H1B program. I am sick of it too and want it scrapped. It’s not right!
When there’s a shortage, raise salaries, students respond. IT salaries are flat!
Salary Surveys are not real-world either.
Now American companies are squeezing indian companies even more! Less onshore and more offshore.
Good read, bringing the feelings of those who quit IT due to H1B. I know many myself.
And here are some comments from the FB anti-H1B forum:
I know of at least 3 previously successful STEM professionals (not including VB’s situation) who have been homeless – sleeping in their vehicle due to this nonsense
I was told of a STEM grad in Ohio, a woman, she could not find work, heavy in debt, became depressed and went to heroin usage. Shocked and dismayed the family. The OPT program favors foreign students over ourUSA student time and time again. Great country huh?
Regarding outsourcing and offshoring, the H-1B is a two step: first they outsource, they then offshore. Basically a contractor like the ones that dominate the H-1B program goes to an American employer with something like the following pitch: you have an IT department with individual employees making, say, $140k a year. Fire them all, hire the H-1B contractor, and that will be just the start of your savings! The American employer asks: how will I save money? The H-1B contractor says — because my guys will be paid $60k a year, so even with the contractor cost it’ll be less than 140K. American employer says: how do I know your guys can do the work? H-1B contractor explains: your guys will train my guys. American employer says — but won’t my guys complain? H-1B contractor says — nope: make their severance depend on training their replacements AND a non-disclosure, non-disparagement agreement. American employer says — gee, I’m interested: but you said that just STARTS the savings? H-1B contractor says — yep: because once you’ve replaced, say, 10 Americans with 10 H-1bs who are trained at the work, the H-1B contractor explains they will leave just one or two in the US as management liaison, and ship all the other jobs offshore — they’ll make $25k in India, which is less than $60k in the US, and a LOT less than the $140K the Americans were making in the first place. So H-1B outsourcing is a preliminary step to offshoring the jobs altogether — a SUBSIDY provided to a job-exporting machine by the US government.
The thing is, the H-1B program does two things — and ONLY two things: it subsidizes outsourcers (the job exporting machine I just described), and it DELAYS green cards. So the solution is to kill outsourcing AND deliver green cards, faster. You can’t outsource with green cards because there’s no cost advantage (a guy with a green card doesn’t undercut US wages, they GET American wages), and you can’t offshore with green cards because (being legal permanent residents), they create and keep jobs here.
Here is another post:
Based on my humble observation of the IT industry, I have evidenced that giants like IBM really started this managed service provider (MSP) game from early 2000 itself right after the dot com bubble bust. Like to register this point as many think that only the Indian outsourcing giants are the reason for the H1B and outsourcing abuse going on for more than a decade.
Here is a post from Breitbart:
I’m an American programmer who lost his job in IT last year, pushed out by the flood of H -1B’s from India, outsourcing too.
But I’m determined to get back into the field, very determined.
The entire H-1B visa program should have been named “The Full Indian Employment Act” for that’s what it has been for many years now.
And another post:
I totally agree with you. This system is just cheap tec labor for many large corporations in US. I use to work at Cummins and they did this all the time. Young people in computer fields for US colleges couldn’t get a job for anything. They hired Indians for half wages.
And another post:
In addition to IT, the Biotechnology and Pharma industries have very high numbers of H1b visa workers. It’s become….awkward to be native born. I work in Silicon Valley in the Biotechnology industry. I feel like an outsider as a native-born American. Sometimes though, some white males relish using Asian immigrant females to try and insult native-born women, so the situation is paying off for some people. Only once in a while does an immigrant seem more competent than an average American worker.
Here is a post from a WND article:
There are many of us out here that thrived early in our information technology careers only to be magically too old or too expensive once over the age of 40. We were not given a chance to prove our skills transfer well to changes in methods and computer languages. We were not given a chance to take lower pay and restart our careers as the industry changed.
My guess is a million Americans, probably more, with information technology degrees, many with advanced degrees, have left the industry. Many having a decade and more of experience are underemployed and others are surviving on consulting and short term contract work because imported, cheaper, younger, contract labor have the jobs we used to have. Many of the largest companies use thousands of temporary contract workers to avoid providing benefits and careers.
Saddest of all to me is that so many of the layoff and hiring decisions are made by people grossly unqualified to make them. If pro basketball teams used the same logic, they would have people that have never played and do not know how to play basketball deciding their draft picks based solely on off court interviews.
Incidentally, I completed my Masters in IT a decade ago at age 49. I earned all As. Half of my fellow students were Indians and few others were Chinese. They openly acknowledged my software development and project management knowledge was superior to theirs. I was the only American in my group in one class. My younger Indian group members referred to me as the old smart guy. One of my younger American classmates asked me how I knew so much. None of this mattered once I put my resume out. I was too old, so I continue taking whatever temporary contract development work that I can get. Most my age have not been so fortunate.
Here is a post from the FB IT Forum:
I used to tell people, not only GCs/Citizens are being replaced by H1bs but I’ve seen higher wages paid H-1bs are being replaced by H-1bs (who are with outsourcing companies) and L-1bs (with outsourcing companies). Because, they are more cheaper. All corporates’ main aim is simple – automate everything (That’s what current IT is for) and get to the next level by getting profits through automation. Network/Robotix Security and AI is going to rule the next generation.
And another post:
The issue is simple. offshoring is getting easier the cost difference is 10 to 1. It will not stop. The few jobs that are needed in the US will be filled by young indentured workers with shorter and shorter career than their predecessors. It is not a good scene. I specifically asked in a very nice way not to rant but to get together and find a solution. PLEASE don’t change the direction of this conversation.
And another post:
Remember all of those good paying jobs that Obamacare was going to created? Many, maybe most, of those jobs went to H-1B Dependent contractors. These companies have permeated the workforce. There are hundreds of thousands of H-1B visa recipients all across the country.
And a reply to the post above:
[Name withheld] is absolutely correct. The entire McLean, Northern VA, Dulles-BWI-Fairfax / Loudon County-DC area has been overrun by H1Bs from india… just in the last 7-8 years. It is unbelievable what has happened. This is what Obamacare “achieved” – changed the demographics of DC in less than a decade, and WASTE billions of dollars of taxpayer money.
And another comment:
Probably the biggest abuser of the H-1B visa is the federal government. It is not just Obamacare. You can include the USPS, the Fed, and many, many other federal agencies are hiring out to H-1B Dependent employers, especially in metro Washington, DC.
And here are some posts from a Conservative Review article:
Many folks with technical degrees are not getting hired due to age discrimination (which WorkSource in my state defines as those over 40) as well as being replaced with cheap labor, i.e. H1B workers. Years ago, I worked as a contractor/temp at John Deere Product Development and there was a very large number of asian engineers working there. I’m a 60 year old engineer that had security clearances, and have not been able to land an engineering or other technical position. Most other jobs, I am over-qualified for.
I worked for a company that did that. All the customer service people were American and all the programmers were on visas from the Ukraine and Poland.
Most H-1b visas are going to the Offshore Outsourcing companies, in order to facilitate the removal of jobs from the United States.
This represents an INSANE waste of U.S. taxpayer resources.
Kick the Offshore Outsourcing companies out of the H-1b system, and we will never run out of H-1b visas. Then the auto companies and Silicon Valley will have nothing to complain about.
The Offshore Outsourcing companies can use the U.S. Free Labor market, you know Capitalism. Same as any other ordinary business on Main St. The Offshore Outsourcing companies don’t need any U.S. Federal Government subsidies, indeed to give them help from our U.S. Federal Government, is completely insane.
More than half of the H-1b visas are taken by Offshore Outsourcing companies. The Offshore Outsourcing companies bring in a transient fresher workforce that is trained by better qualified, more experienced, American workers. After the training the American is fired and hits the unemployment line. When enough such replacements have occured, the entire department is moved t India.
In India they call the H-1b visas, the Offshore Outsourcing visa.
If we kicked the Offshore Outsourcing companies out of the H-1b U.S. Federal Government program, we would never have seen a year, since inception, where we ran out of H-1b visas.
And more visas would be available to our domestic technology originating companies.
Look the U.S. has seen a very slow recovery, it is about time we took a look at how our Federal Government programs are hijacked in such a way that it is damaging our economy. H-1b visa is clearly one of those places.
I did postdoctoral biomedical research at a major University in Boston and about 90% were foreigners who came there on a J1 visa, then switched to H1B and later got a green card. Salaries were around 40k a year with no benefits, no 401k, no healthcare etc. I don’t see how a US STEM graduate could afford to do a 4-6 year fellowship on that salary while still paying off student loans. Consequently, US graduates don’t stay in research and cheap immigrants will take their fellowship positions which gives them an advantage over US STEM graduates in the job market later on. It should be much harder for foreigners to get a H1B visa.
This article is 100% spot on. I have witnessed this up close and personal for years in the high-tech industry. In one company, a hard-working engineer on a H-1B suddenly got a significant increase in his paycheck and didn’t know why. His boss, a friend of mine, had no idea why he got it. His boss had to go many layers up to find out what had happened. It turned out that the company had been UNDERpaying the employee, believe it or not, and the government found out and stepped in to force the company to raise his pay to the lowest acceptable level for his job function. So, this company was actually paying this hard-working employee LESS than the already-low standard. This company, along with many others, recently offered an early retirement offer to employees at or over a certain age. This move allowed the company to get rid of many higher paid senior employees, most of whom were natural-born US citizens, to make room for entry-level H-1B employees. This may give a short-term boost to gross margins, but they will pay dearly in the long run. I have also worked with STEM professors, who are struggling in general with dropping STEM enrollments.
It is truly a tragedy to see American students who have worked so hard and spent so much money to get a STEM degree not able to find jobs. I was fortunate to graduate in a different time, when STEM jobs for American citizens were plentiful. Sadly, I think in the not-too-distant future China and other Asian countries will surpass America in pretty much everything STEM-related, including education, and students will no longer be flocking to the US for this type of education. I have traveled to China many times on business, and it is abundantly clear that they are working like crazy to be the best in the world. It appears that it’s just a matter of time, and the dumbing-down of the American school system is helping things accelerate in that direction.
I was shown a site with a bunch of stories of H1B visa abuse: http://www.hireamericansfirst.org/members/h1b_harm_report.aspx
I noticed that CIBER, Inc, one of the companies that was complained about, is on a couple of the lists above:
I whitnessed two executives in my company state; -“We are targeting H1 workers as I can hire 10 of them for 4 Americans” ~Director -“60% of your jobs [referenceing the 100+ Americans in the room] are going to India and Eastern Europe so we can be competitive.” ~CEO
Here is another entry (though for a different company: Providence Health and Services):
After I left the company – I was replaced by an H1B, I am still being continually harassed by the Indian Manager. Every week, I undergo fake interviews with H1B companies asking me for a ‘previous manager’ reference. This is why H1b is harmful to US citizens. New graduates cant get into the the entry level jobs are still held by h1b people, with their fake personas. US citizens who have enough experience cant get higher paying jobs because the H1B presents themselves with fake credentials, all helped by companies who earns from them. This is how they work: 1) They would post a job opening with pay of 80,000 to 110,000 a year… Check cybercoders.com 2) They would screen candidates, US citizens, ask them endless questions from a book, until the candidate fails to answer one. 3) Then they would say no US citizen was able to answer the questions 4) Then they would introduce the H1B contractor. The H1B contractor earns 50,000 a year and then they would pocket the 30,000. Imagine if they have 100 H1B contractors in one company.
Here is someone complaining about Computer Sciences Corporation (can’t find them, so far, on my H1B pusher list, but they are on my Amnesty supporter list and also listed on my outsourcing/offshoring list and appear to be a member of the pro-Amnesty, pro-Common Core Business Roundtable (which IS on the list as supporting more H1B visas), and also appear to be on my lists as having fired someone for not agreeing with the Gay Agenda, appear to be on this list as one of the worst companies to work for, and appear on my Planned Parenthood supporter list, so we already know that they are sleazy.):
Since 1997 I have competed with H-1B programmers with the result that I was forced, time after time, to work on projects with older technologies, despite obtaining a BS in computer science in 1998 and consistent efforts to join assignments involving newer, job-securing technologies. Often I changed jobs so to work with these technologies, and also often I found I was working in a primarily H-1B shop where I was excluded from the work I sought by tightly-banding H-1B workers who manoevered to keep the key technology projects for themselves (even though I originally was hired to work on these projects). Eventually I had to commute further and further just to find jobs which I could get in what I had most recently worked with — generally the older technologies. Finally in November 2011 I as laid off and have not find an IT job. I often see ads for candidates with 2 years experience which the employer is willing to sponsor for a visa. I am an American citizen, have 30 years of varied IT experience, a fairly recent BS in Computer Science and I cannot get a job even as a tester or Business Analyst or low-level programmer, positions I would take, although I would prefer a programmer/software engineer position such as that which I had during the first 30 years of my career.
Here is a video of how some guys are helping companies pull off the H1B scam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
Here is a comment from someone from Yahoo (which appears on my H1B list MANY times):
I trained/mentored H-1b visa holders, they went back to their country – I was laid off.
I found a comment about a company called Stryker, which, according to here, does indeed seem to be abusing H1B visas):
I have 2 Bachelor’s degrees: BS in Electrical Engineering and BS in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology. I also have MS in Electrical Engineering. I also have many years of experience as a hardware and software engineer. For several years, I’ve been unable to find any employment. I was interviewed numeros times, and during those interviewes was openly told that the interview is done for the statutory purposes to hire an H1-B candidate, and they have no intention of hiring me no matter what my qualifications are. The last such an interview and such a rejection occurred in August of 2011. HR rep. Becky Charon of Stryker Corp. conducted a statutory interview with me on August 20, 2011 (Friday), and on August 22, 2011(Sunday), she sent me a rejection letter.
Here is a post from someone complaining about JP Morgan Chase (a really sleazy company):
I was laid off in 2002 and unable to find another position. Then I find out about Orin Hatch and the American Competitaveness Act for the Twenty First Century. Hatch and anyone like him are nothing more than traitors. I had to sell my home, and various other possessions, I was unable to find another job in IT. Another thing that I learned during this period is that menial, minimum wage jobs will not hire you if you have an IT degeree and several years of experience.
Another complaint about Texas Instruments:
Trained a H-1B employee to do my job, then was fired.
Here is another post, with no company listed:
The company I was working at until May 1999 hired an H-1B worker who was doing the same kind of work as me and who I helped train to learn what we did on our team. When layoffs occurred in May 1999, I was let go less than a month after the H-1B employee was hired. The H1B employee remained because the company had hired him under a minimum 2 year obligation as an H-1B transfer. More recently ( about 2 years ago), I discovered that one or more local consulting companies have hired almost exclusively H-1b employees to work on local contracts in Omaha, NE. I discovered while giving one employee that worked with locally, a ride home. I was introduced to 4 or 5 guys staying at the apartment provided thru the consulting company with almost no furniture. No beds, only 1 couch. They told me that they must work for this company 2 or 3 years before the company will apply for a green card for them. The situation for these men is similar to Indentured servants while waiting from their green card to be even applied for. They worked for local companies who wired up computers in their apartment so that these guy could work all day at the office and then go home and work many more hours in evening from home. I’m pretty sure their average pay is less than PERM employees or PERM contractors in Omaha. Hard to compete in this economy with foreign H-1B employees who send half their income out of country. I don’t see how this helps our economy. I believe the IT managers in this area have worked together to give preference to H-1B employees, but have no proof of this. I believe I would be unemployable either full-time or as a contractor in Omaha, which is a small I.T. community, if I spoke publicly about the number of jobs that have been given preference to H-1B employees in Omaha, NE. I would need to speak with somone from your organization before I would consider speaking to the media or being a party in a class action suit.
And another post (of which, I’ve heard similar stuff about pharmaceutical workers being decimated by sleazy corporate tactics from two others online that are in the chemistry profession):
So much has been said of the computer specialists, but scant attention is being paid to the pharmaceutical, biotech and chemical industries. My career as a research chemist has been totally destroyed because of both the H1-B program and job outsourcing to China and India. I know, I have always been the one to train these ‘highly qualified’ chemists. It’s not just the low salary and benefits (not even a 401K!) that is the reason these people are hired, but also because they will NOT speak up in their defense. By extension, these circumstances will apply to any American citizen that works in the lab. I have had several people, even in HR at large pharmaceutical companies tell me that science careers are “immigrant jobs”. After years of complaining and protesting against these circumstances (and making myself a target as a result), and then having the full impact of knowing that I was actually making LESS than a high school teacher after nearly 15 years of experience (with a Masters in both organic chemistry and and MBA), I have decided to simply give up and do the most sane thing I can. I am becoming a high school chemistry teacher. The salary is almost the same, the working conditions are better, and at the end of the day, I can feel reassured that I did not work my ass off just to make some conceited prick in top management more wealthly than he needs to be. And, to top it off, one has to be an AMERICAN CITIZEN to be a public school teacher! From what I hear the dean’s of various teaching programs around NY and NJ, their is a flood of American scientists going into education. It’s such a shame, because how on earth are we going to get kids interested in math and science when the end result is that they won’t have a job if they pursue such a career in the first place. This is first and foremost a national security issue. It must be addressed because science is the future.
Here is a complaint about Phillips Semiconductor:
In 1998 while working for Phillips Semiconductor in Mountain View I was replaced by an H-1b from India. A colleague was replaced at the same time same project by another H-1b. Have personally witnessed foreign labor pools inside every major Silicon Valley company I visited including Philips Semiconductor, HP, Nokia, AMD, IBM, Applied Materials. While living in San Jose my neighbor ( a mid-level HP manager who is black ) was coerced by his Indian management to implement a training policy where his 16 subordinates trained foreign labor replacements. The H-1b L-1 visa is the tool of choice for corporations to replace US workers with cheap foreign labor, marginalize the middle class, and leverage corporate profits.
Here is a complaint about EMC Corp, a group that has appeared on the H1B list many times:
Was layed of along with several other of 40 IT professionals and replaced by H1Bs.
Here is a complaint from someone from GE Healthcare:
I watched as 80% of the US citizens in my department were replaced with foreign visa workers while I was employed at GE Healthcare. Even though I have 15 years of experience in my field working with Fortune 500 companies- and a college degree I have remained either unemployed or under employed since September 2006. Ironically, the same companies that pursued me with offers of employment in the 90’s no longer consider me qualified to do the job I’d already been doing for over 10 years. When I do get interviews, strange things happen- in one case they company had supposedly received a hundred resumes for a software support position. I was one of the people they brought in for an interview- well they didn’t hire any of us and I saw the same position re-posted a few weeks later. This type of situation has been quite common as companies try manufacture evidence to support their claim that there is no qualified US citizen for their job- only to hire an H-1b at a fraction of the going wage.
And another post:
I recently had my last contract ended early due to “lack of work”. However, at the same time I was being sent away, several consultants from India were brought in to work on the same project. This project was entirely managed by Indian-born managers (don’t know if they were U.S. citizens) who exclusively employed Indian consultants (with only two exceptions) from WiPro, a huge Indian consulting company. WiPro regularly treated these managers, along with higher-level American management, to trips to India including luxurious accomodations, lavish night-life, and God knows what else. While on this project, I personally experienced total non-cooperation from WiPro consultants who I was assigned to lead (and other co-workers, with a few exceptions). WiPro went to this projects Indian managers and had me moved to another, lower-level position and replaced by a WiPro senior consultant to lead them instead. I was given inferior, short assignments that lacked requirements and told to do the architecture. Then I was told to do programming which I had been previously told was not required for my contract. The culmination was that I was not even allowed to finish my short projects and the last one was assigned to a WiPro consultant to finish so my contract could be ended. What angers me most is that WiPro is allowed to rotate their consultants, working on projects for this company, every year or less, effectively totally locking out American consultants from being employed. And, this is being done with the knowledge of American senior management and knowledge of their largest (and I think only) customer, McDonalds Corporation, Oak Brook,IL.
Here is a complaint from someone from PG&E, a company that has been reported on before as exploiting H1B visas:
My company was actively hiring Indian contractors through Tata and Infosys at the time I was let go.
Here is a complaint about Adobe Systems Inc.:
I worked for Adobe Systems on contract for 2 months. The company is filled to the ceiling with foreign workers from India, China, and Viet Nam. The Adobe Acrobat project (a $1 billion a year project) is run by a Viet Namese witch named Lily Tran who has never even heard of a GANTT chart. 100% of her staff is female imported Viet Namese workers. Adobe laid off 500 U.S. citizen workers in Dec. 2005 but not a single “temporary guest worker” was laid off. After they laid me off they asked me to come back to “work for one week only” to train my foreign replacement. I told them to take a hike. What part of FRAUD doesn’t the U.S. government understand when these people come in on skilled visas but don’t have the skills claimed? Many of these imported workers have never seen a light switch and we wonder why our economy is in trouble? BOYCOTT ALL ADOBE PRODUCTS.
Here is a complaint about Hewlett-Packard:
I was working at Hewlett Packard in Roseville California, and in September 2009 I was laid off with 11 other very valuable people. We saw over a month before a large group of India Nationals being given a tour, and one the men I was laid off with commented, “Those are our replacements.”. I didn’t know it at the time, but his statement turned out to be prophetic. Management brought in people from Bangalore India in order to replace us. They did however leave in place a skeleton crew of knowledgeable people to train our replacements, and their own when the time would come. They were even told this openly. It is rampant within Corporate world here in these USA, as well as HP. In my opinion the executives who made these decisions should be prosecuted under RICO statutes. Its not just the loss of a good job through unethical probably unlawful behavior. There is something else even more sinister of what executive management do in concert with the international banking cartel. The term is “ECONOMIC TERRORISM”. It is Treason at the very least.
And here is a complaint about Bank of New York Mellon:
I was laid off after 22 years with organization where I survived many mergers & takeovers. My job, and the jobs of many of my colleagues were replaced with lower cost offshore workers. This was what we were told in no uncertain terms. We were required to train these offshore workers in our New York offices as a condition of our receiving severance pay. In addition, I have seen my exact position, in my actual technology application area at the organization, and similar positions, advertised on many recruiting sites looking for consulting candidates. Essentially in addition to cheap labor from overseas, we were being replaced by temporary employees who are easily expendable and who don’t require any kind of benefit plan to be offered by the Bank other than an hourly rate. The temporary employees are typically from Indian consulting firms. No Americans need apply. In fact we were told upon our termination that we could apply for positions across the organization but unofficially, management & HR were directed not to rehire any of the dislocated staff since the general feeling is that eventually Indian programmers would be taking over all critical functions at a fraction of the cost. This company has its own Indian consulting firm which they purchased when they acquired Pershing Securities in 2003. The subsidiary which became their unofficial consulting arm was iNautix technologies. The bank, however makes substantial use of the services of Wipro, Cognizant, & Tata among others. I believe that I was absolutely harmed by their wholesale shipment of Indian programmers to the US to glean the knowledge from the US IT staff, so one’s job will be replaced by Indian IT staff. I was an officer who oversaw every change in departmental staff, including those allocated from overseas and I can safely say that the ratio of US staff to Indian staff was 20 to 1. Their work is sub-standard at best and the major difficulty is in their communication and dealings with US staff.
And a complaint about Exult:
My husband lost his computer programming job when his company imported cheaper programmers from India. The Americans had to train their replacements in order to receive severance.
You know, maybe the federal government could better crack down on H-1B Visa abuse….IF THEY WEREN’T ABUSING IT THEMSELVES!!!! http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/guest-workers-employed-at-labor-department-headquarters-220647
Here is a post from the FB anti-H1B group:
May 19, 2016 at 12:02 am, Bob Barnard said:
Having worked at Microsoft for over a dozen years, and having lost my job to an H1B worker, let me lift the covers from a very crafty practice Microsoft uses to displace American workers with cheaper H1B’s, while still being able to state that they compensate H1B’s at the same grade level as American workers:
Microsoft accomplishes its goal of replacing American workers with less expensive H1B’s with an HR ‘sleight of hand’: the company simply reduces the lower boundary of an established pay grade to accommodate the lower salaries offered to H1B’s, who they then use to replace ‘more expensive’ American workers.
For example, the salary range at Microsoft for a level 62 employee might previously have been $90k to $110k. By simply reducing the lower boundary for level 62 from $90k down to $60k, Microsoft is able to terminate an American earning $90k, and bring in an H1B to replace the American at $60k. At the same time, Microsoft is able to say (with a straight face) that a new H1B hire is being brought in at the same pay grade (62) as the displaced American worker. Done deal. Happens all the time, folks. So much for Microsoft’s loyalty to long term, dedicated American employees.
May 19, 2016 at 8:02 am, Spundone said:
Seems to me these companies have no moral foundation nor if you please a solid foundation of civil responsibility and love of country . Americans first.
I believe when a corporation isis in need of kit delivery pressures they being lazy go to the entities mentioned and receive instant gratification. Then they blame Americans for being stupid to justify their nefarious actions. They are people in this world concerned only by quick profits and care not if they even create a environment where violence will come due to poverty from those whose fore fathers shed their blood to defend America and her allies. Corporations are not people is so we would have seen a descent conscience by now.
July 03, 2016 at 6:21 pm, Z US said:
Indians are explicitly saying it ” we fake resumes, credentials, and experience”; moreover, they are advising not to look for an IT job if you are not Indian since it is all about “connection” if you know an Indian manager you got the job. Simply!
July 24, 2016 at 10:42 am, Max said:
In NYC, most programming jobs are taken by South Indians. It’s important to realize that a South Indian manager won’t hire an Indian programmer from other parts of India, let alone NON-Indians. I’ve been told all about it by Indian programmers themselves. As ridiculous as it may sound to some people, there’s also corruption in hiring programmers in NYC. One of my former co-workers, a programmer from India, told me how he got a new job in September 2015, in one of biggest state-owned public companies. My former co-worker personally knew the hiring manager so the hiring manager initiated a hiring process, and invited 5 people for the interview, while the hiring decision has been already made (bribery)! So, 5 people came for the interview thinking it’s “real”, but they had no chance no matter how good they did in the previous job, or at the interview itself. Unfortunately there’s not much that can be done about that, unless Non-Indian programmers will go on strike.
February 13, 2017 at 4:51 pm, GG said:
I have lived this for 20 years as a Project Managaement consultant. I have managed Infosys and Tata resources. India wants all tech jobsin the US. They have killed Computer Science US Citizen Graduate interest due to charging 1/2 to 1/3 the pay of US workers. Infosys, Tata, and Wipro will do anything to populate Hindi speaking Indians into US companies. They are not better,smarter , or more inventive than US students and workers. They can go back to India and US companies using them can movetheir headquarters there as well. Indian business dealings have taken US jobs, entire IT groups have been let go in US companies with replacements in the aisles who are taking US jobs. Their business ethics are not US business ethics. They have taken US jobs offshore as well, H1B’s have replaced. Let the H1B’s train US citizen replacements and jettison them to India. Put tariffs on all services over the web and over the internet for US companies from India,
March 04, 2017 at 10:46 am, Max B said:
Hello,
I’ve been laid off after working as a Senior Developer/Developer for 18 years. I don’t see how I can ever get a job in Software Development (given that there are over 320,000 Indian IT workers in the NYC area). For 18 months, I have not been able to to get a job. Can anyone provide some information about the IT occupation/Job Title with % of Indian workers? That way, I can try getting a job in “Non-Indian” field. For example, Software Development vs. Analyst, or vs. Project Manager?
Thank you.
Here is a post from Breitbart:
I was hired by Fidelity Investments in a highly technical leadership role.
After I was hired I was told by my Indian VP that my #1 priority was to train and mentor their newly hired “Off-Shore Development Team” in India. I soon learned that the plan was to replace the US team with this new team in India.
After getting the details I needed to be sure I knew the truth, I refused to train the Indian team and resigned.
I refuse to be a traitor to the other American Workers and help train their replacements. I have been unemployed for some period since this, but have zero regrets and am happy that I did what’s right for my countrymen.
You can say all you want, but this is the absolute 100% truth.
I found a comment on an article online:
There are plenty of out of work developers, particularly those over 50. It used to be that to obtain an H-1B visa you had to post the job first, and the requirements were laughable. One common requirement was to be willing to accept reassignment anywhere in the USA, which was no problem for someone coming for overseas but greatly reduced domestic applicants. Another was to offer a salary 20% below that of new graduates, but require a year of experience, or in addition to system knowledge require the ability to speak Mandarin Chinese – if that’s a legitimate need, it should come with a higher not lower salary! Lastly it’s amazing how many folks from India have experience with every new technology, but to check their references you need to speak Hindi.
[Name withheld] is correct that if you forbid importing cheap help there will be more offshoring. As a consumer you may pay more if salaries rise. Note however that lawyers and Congresspeople are protected from H-1B competition so don’t expect anything to change.
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And another comment countering the argument that employers cannot find qualified Americans:
And another comment:
I think most of us would agree that the “talent acquisition process” is broken, at least in the IT field.
From my observation, one of the big reasons for this it the outsourcing of the Help Desk. The internal Help Desk was always a low risk way to bring potential in the door, observe their work habits, let them learn a bit about the environment, while at the same time allowing this person to make a living.
With this (and other parts of IT) gone, there is much more uncertainty when bringing someone on, and much less time to learn the system.
From my limited vantage point, there is the expectation of the exact skill set, with the expectation that the person will be up to speed on their first day.
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Here is another post from the FB anti-H1B forum:
True story … I got the “thanks for applying but we won’t be taking you to the next stage …” email this morning from an S&P 500 company where I had applied for a position. The position was one for which I have several years of experience (at a couple of smaller companies) including having been promoted to manager over a team doing that work, and training college grads from scratch on how to do it. I didn’t even get a phone screen at this company. The application I filled out did not ask for a desired salary range, although it did ask for my most recent.
Apparently, the market is so saturated they don’t even need to talk to someone like me.
Then, just minutes ago I saw in the news where an exec from that same company is testifying to the EEOC, and complaining about how the US doesn’t have enough skilled workers.
It’s enough to make a person cynical.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B forum:
In my NYS Capital region we have U of Albany, Siena and Russell Sage College and 4 other Community Colleges. All of the graduates report that they can’t even get interviews locally with Computer Science Degrees. These are I.T. Contract vendors with staffing contracts with NYS. So taxpayer money is used to exclude opportunities for taxpayers children. HBITS has a monopoly on staffing NYS I.T. contracts.
And a reply to said post:
Of course because Universities and Colleges are for sale in the US. This is why the Universities are hotbeds of pro-guest worker wile beasts. Very different than my days at University and Grad School when they were mostly filled with US Students. Now days, better qualified US students get passed over as do Citizen applicants in favor of lessor qualified foreign students and visa job applicants.
Same thing you are describing in New Yawk is happening in Ohio (Wright State Visa Scandal) and in Cali (UC Visa and Admission scandal); its Coast-to-Coast Sell Out and Invasion.
Gives new meaning to the song ‘I am going back to Cali’…”I’m going back to Cali, to Cali, to Cali, I’am going back to Cali…I don’t think so” You got that right, especially if you are a US Citizen or any other state for that matter…look at Ohio.
http://www.latimes.com/…/uc-audit-20160329-snap…
https://www.google.com/…/university-of-california-s…
https://www.google.com/…/la-fi-hiltzik-uc-visas…
http://www.dailycal.org/…/state-lawmakers-approve…/
http://cis.org/…/slowly-unraveling-h-1b-scandal-wright…
And another reply:
Look at F1, OPT, CPT scandals. It is the same “Talent Shortage” lie about American Students that is being said about America’s “talent shortage” of STEM workers.
This is happening at PUBLIC universities like UC System Schools and Wright State. UC feeds foreign students to SCE-PGE (SONGS radiation leak criminal investigation and Gas leak at Porter Ranch ring a bell?) and what about Wright State? That involved feeding foreign students and surplus H1-BS to a “minority owned” (Newly minted Indian woman) Contractor for DOD contracts at Wright Patterson Air Force base.
The student visa scam is also going on with online university scams like Herguan University
https://www.google.com/…/feds-revoke-student-visas…/amp/
Here are some more posts from the anti-H1B group:
Although the most recent one was extra maddening due to the coincidence of getting turned down officially by that company on the same day they were testifying about lack of skilled workers, I don’t know how I can point a finger at a specific company. I have been looking for a long while now. I took stock recently … I have applied for positions at over 150 organizations in 20+ states.
Some of them recently will be turning me down in large part due to the downtime itself (it becomes a self-fulfilling cycle after about 6 months, if you haven’t been there.) Some of them might have turned me down largely because I wasn’t local to them (even though I’m willing to relocate), some might have turned me down because of no experience (or not enough) in their industry (I’ve worked in 4 since starting in IT, though 2 of those were only 6 month projects … but I’ve always demonstrated I could learn quickly.) Some will turn me down because they just don’t like the looks of me.
The thing is, companies are allowed to make decisions on their own criteria, and they are allowed to make mistakes. The problem isn’t with the way I was treated by any one specific organization, but rather the cumulative impact of a lot of those decisions (and how they build on each other) and that the flooding of the market with cheap labor via guest worker visas has a big part in enabling the organizations to be so picky that they can cavalierly ignore someone with my proven experience and aptitude. That kind of thing clearly shows the dishonesty of claims of shortages.
I had 4 years of nationwide consulting for Oracle Corporation. I am a Sun Certified Java Programmer with 10 years of team leadership and development for Oracle. The job that I applied for in Kansas City was a developer role using Web Center portal. The tech screen call asked no serious questions about WebCenter portal, Java or the Oracle database. Two days after the call I was informed that I had only textbook knowledge of the product that I had developed, led and repaired. The US DOJ official believes I was discriminated against. The only way the situation changes is if you report and unethical Indian run body shops have their feet held to the fire.
But unless you have at least 3 years of experience with Oracle v12 in the cloud and Peoplesoft and Linux admin while working in the gift packaging industry, you don’t have the right skills and we need to import more workers. Infosys can send me someone with those exact skills in about a month.
This is absalutely true, the companies are making false ads to hire here, but have no plans to hire Americans, They want only foreign workers, period. I know one US CS grad form ivy league and he was told in tel interview by Amazon, he could interview on site for entry level job when he already has 4 yrs experience. Also, Amazon wants workers to put in 60 hrs a week for no extra pay. Heard its a lousy company for employees, and hires mostly foreigners. I want to stop using Amazon.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B forum:
Have you ever been to DC, like Washington DC, our nation’s capital? In the last 10 years, that place has been overrun by indians,,,almost all of the federal agencies, Freddie, Fannie, DOL, BLS, DOJ, IRS, World bank, are filled to the brim with H1B, green cards, foreigners only… it is just unbelievable how the capitol region has changed.
And here is a reply to said post:
It’s been a while since I was in DC, but I can believe it. I’ve been in the IT departments at several big companies, and interviewed at others. When I meet/see people there of Indian ethnicity of course I don’t always know if they are on h-1b, but one can assume most of them are. The percentages that I see seem, at a glance, higher than any official statistics or reporting that I’ve seen. In my personal experience it seems around 50%. Maybe even higher because the Americans a lot of times are “business analyst” types, not strictly technical roles. That’s just looking at the people physically present, not counting any offshoring.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B forum:
this reminds me of an aspect of this H-1b issue—-many times the employers are requiring advanced degrees. If there REALLY were a shortage of tech talent, then how is it that employers are ignoring so many BSs and only look for MS and above? THis is actually a sign of the opposite of a shortage but of an over abundance of talent.
For example, some industries like …. physical therapy I think, perhaps audiology, and some others require advance degrees simply because so many are out there.
Recently a friend of mine who is a IT director at Bank of AMerica told me sheepishly w/ head down ( because he knew my son was graduating from college in computer engineering) that his boss was going to Perdue to recruit, but was ONLY looking for MS and above. Clearly there is not a shortage
[Name Withheld], any data on the extent to which employers seek our higher degreed people in IT? I assume it is not as prevalent as in physical therapy where you MUST get that advanced degree.
And here is a reply to said post:
The Masters degree demand is smoke and mirrors too. I can point to many, including myself, who have undergrads from top universities, have masters degrees and graduated with high GPAs (I was 4th in my class), who have earned and maintain Cybersecurity certifications (I have 6) and still are shut out.
In the current paradigm of corruption, you could earn degrees and certs to end of time and if you are American in America you won’t work in your field.
If you speak too loudly in protest, you are blackballed, isolated, attacked, crushed financially, reputation attacked , voices muted, etc. Still, we must keep fighting and keep our skills up too. Never surrender, fight on to the death is my commitment, even if I am the last paratrooper.
I, like many, didn’t choose our career fields just for for the money, we chose our field because it was our calling in life.
I fought for Constitutional rights when I joined the military and I am not going to stop until those rights have been restored to ALL Americans. Fight on and fight to the death or you will be digging your own grave.
Here is another post from said group:
I’m going to ask a question … and I think I know the answer, but I wonder about other opinions. Say someone had 10, 15, 20 years of IT experience, programming, databases, system architecture … but didn’t have the right current hot terms on their resume. If that person took some self-study classes to learn new skills, and prove that they were still willing and able … would that person be able to get a job that paid them like a 10-20 year veteran, or would they have to accept entry-level H-1b wages in order to get a job?
And here is a reply to said post:
I tried the entry-level job hunting route w/ my many years experience COBOL/FORTRAN/DB MRP/ERP/EDI for Java, Web development, management.
Response? Job ads were rewritten that explicitely stated must be recent graduates entry level, coming right up to the fine line of age discrimination.
Here are some posts from the City-Data forum:
Im an Aerospace Engineer in Defense: My company replaced our very capable American IT people with remote overseas and imported H1b Indian visa holders. We have been suffering with poor communication and performance ever since. Anyone who has endured having to talk to someone who can barely communicate in English over the phone knows exactly what Im talking about.
It happened in the Fortune 100 company I work for. Our entire IT department was replaced by less capable imported H1b holders in the mid 2000s.
Couldn’t rep again. This is the truth in many if not all the F100 corps. In late 90s, very few Indians. In 2010, nearly all the offices have some Indian or Middle Eastern names on the office name plates. They are everywhere. American citizens become temps.
Lots of American citizens are being forced out. They take the majority of spots that our new college grads should receive too.
Anyone who support H1b and L1 (even bigger problem because the Indian companies can import their employees over here without limits) visas abuse are anti-Americans on the American land.
This illegal hiring practice is as dispicable as letting illegal alians dominate much of the blue collar work. It’s a white collar crime of illegal activities. American corporations with their armies of fork tongue lawyers are anti-Americans.
Cat’s been out of the bag for a long time. We know it’s not the shortage of skilled workers that caused a climb in those visas. It’s the shortage of workers who would work for less.
A furor over the layoffs in Orlando last January brought to light many other episodes in which American workers, mainly in technology but also in accounting and administration, said they had lost jobs to foreigners on H-1B visas, and had to train replacements as a condition of their severance. The foreign workers, mostly from India, were provided by outsourcing companies, including the two named in the lawsuits, which have dominated the H-1B visa system, packing the application process to win an outsize share of the quota set by Congress of 85,000 visas each year.https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/u…mmigrants.html
Now they are discouraging this by attaching a fee to hiring foreign workers with this visa so it’s less about saving money and more about needing a few foreigners for skill. The program was abused. What the numbers fall. I’m very thankful those at Disney spoke out.
I saw on 60 Minutes the fired IT workers at a CA University talked about the humiliating experience of having to train their foreign replacements. How can anyone with half a brain and who is not a shill for the outsourcing industry say they can’t find qualified American workers? HELLO, these guys were fired so the school can save money.
Here is a post from the anti-H1B group:
The audacity of the American companies:
Mass Mutual Email to its workers attached.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B forum:
Here is another post from the anti-H1B visa group:
one nuance to ‘can’t get jobs’ is there are jobs and there are jobs – even in the IT industry. My nephew, a recent grad out of Univerity of Illinois , champaign urbana in comptuer engineering, one fo the best programs in the country, was turned down to work at his first choice job , Garmin ( ’cause he thought the gps products were ‘cool’). he was looking for entry level.
When I looked at myvisa website to see if they were users of H-1b , I learned that they were.significant user of H-1b YEs, he ended up w./ an IT job, but it was nt what he SHOULD HAVE gotten coming from this good program. THey reduced his options.
as I said in my comment, Garmin . One thing I learned about this place recently was that it has something like 2700 employees, so it is not a huge fortune 100 firm, but they apparently wd rather go 10,000 milles away to fill entry level positions than to the American midwest where they are HQ ‘ed.
http://www.myvisajobs.com/…/Garmin…/211646_Visa.htm
And another post:
80% US IT/STEM grads that I know are either under-employed or unemployed. People are angry out there. If Trump is doing nothing or not enough, we will get a more extreme President in 2020.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B article:
I’ve been in IT in the same Fortune 100 company for 32 years. Have been seeing the writing on the wall with this H1B bullshit for 20 years. Now more than half the people in my building are dot heads. They’ve taken over support for many systems and have to be bailed out at every turn. Two months ago they laid off 500 IT employees. I was one of them. They give you 2 months to apply for jobs within the company. I was lucky and got into a code school program they send folks to. Did not want to do programming any more so went for UX. The dot heads don’t usually do UX or requirements. We also went all Agile, and UX is basically pre-agile. Tried the Scrum master thing for awhile but fuck that. I wouldn’t advise any kid these days to get into coding due to the H1B program. They work for half the price and are happy to do it.
Hmmm, I wonder what the feds wanted to hide: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2839375/government-it/feds-set-to-destroy-h-1b-records.html
1 million H1Bs working college level jobs here? So that’s where all the jobs are going! http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/03/14/goldman-sachs-almost-one-million-h-1b-foreign-workers-hold-university-level-jobs/amp/
Here is another post from the anti-H1B group page:
I have a 37 year old Degree in Public Accounting with 30 years of experience in multiple languages and sofware. Requirements are written to ignore prior experience if that experience isn’t in your current job. That is how you negate 10-20 years of experience in a job requirement
Here is another post from the anti-H1B group:
Americans need not apply in America
Mycon is a leading provider of world-class enterprise-wide consulting and custom application and integration solutions.
Mycon has helped connect the most talented technical, engineering professionals and application management with a long list of satisfied customers ranging from small and midsized companies to global Fortune 500 corporations.
Mycon has recently awarded multiple projects to be executed Onsite only. Mycon is looking for candidates with valid H1b Visa and willing to transfer it to Mycon.
We are looking for outstanding and bright candidates for working in US for our development projects at our client places. we are looking for top notch candidates in the following areas.
We are seeking candidates to work in our US locations.
Candidates should have a valid stamped H1b visa and willing to transfer H1b to Mycon.
1. Java/J2EE & J2EE ; Sr. developers.
2. ASP , .NET
3. C++
4. Informatica.
5. Datawarehousing.
6. Salesforce Developer
7. Guidewire.
8. Servicenow
9. Big Data
10. Hadoop
11. Sharepoint Developer
12. ETL Developer
Qualification:
Bachelors / Masters in Computer Science , or other related field required.
Job Location: USA ( on H1B) Must be Stamped
Salary: Will be best …Can be discussed.
Experience: Minimum 4 Years
Green card policy:The company will file / sponsor for Green card after few months also can file immediately for interested candidates.
https://www.naukri.com/job-listings-Urgent-Onsite-Opportuni…
Here are more posts from the anti-H1B visa group:
I have mentioned this before in this space, but a mgr in my ex company ( looks like tons are all bound up in the graph – in DT Chicago) said they were paying per capita 20-30k / yr .WAY below prevailing wage. I dont know how they do it . It is probably paying a shell company who assesses the prevailing wage or even something higher like 60k, and then they skim and end up giving the H-1ba lot less.
And here is a reply to said post:
That makes sense. They would report the 60,000 for compensation but take the overhead out and the employee would receive much less.
And here is another post from said group:
It is an outright scam. They DO NOT pay FICA, medicare, medicaid etc to the IRS. the employee is paid a “stipend” usually out of a petty cash account, the banks, the Feds all blissfully unaware of whats going on. And by the way, this has been happening for years. Screwing the IRS is child’s play for the indian mafia, believe it or not. PLUS – and this is huge, they’re extremely adept at manipulating the KYC and AML laws… freely transferring money offshore, in hidden shell accounts, foreign companies etc. Meanwhile us idiots diligently pay taxes each year while progressively making less and less. KYC is Know your Customer, and AML is Anti-Money Laundering.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B group:
2 yrs ago, Garmin wd not give an entry level job to my nephew, a University Illinois – Urbana graduate, because ‘it had no openings’ but we found that it was a strong user of H-1b .
Here is another post from the anti-H1B group:
Former INS officer here (before ICE). We were instructed to admit ANYONE with a valid H1b visa. I saw a lot of waiters & bartenders on H1b’s
Here is yet another post from the anti-H1B group. Looks like L1 visas are being heavily abused as well:
I was chatting with a coworker who has a green card but is intimately familiar with offshorers/indian body shops practices. He laughed when I told him that H1B changes will fix this issue. He told me that most of these Indian companies use L1/B1/B2 visas to place their staff on a coding/QA assignments. He also said it is illegal to do that unless these guys are at a managerial level and are controlled by the offshore company.They are not allowed to code, just supervise or give presentations.Is it true? If it is than can we get the L1/B1 data under the FOIA act and publish it so if someone is working illegally, he/she can be flagged. This seems like a no brainer.
And two more posts:
I worked on the world savings to wachovia to wells fargo merger – back then it was mostly americans – now I hear most banks have replaced their staff although I can’t confirm it
Bank of America, JPM Chase, Citi, Wells out west, Capital One in DFW and Virginia, are all 70-80% indian. there is no way we’ll take those companies back. They have tasted cheap indian blood and there is no crueler vampire than a bank CEO.
And yet another post:
Every day, I am getting calls from recruiters for jobs where visa holders are excluded from the assignment. A few days ago, even a top Indian firm called me about a job. The client of the Indian firm was a major US bank. I did a little research before the interview and discovered that the bank had been certified for around 2000 H-1B visas for 2015 and 2016 combined. Naturally, I wanted to know the culture of the work environment, but as I asked questions, the hiring manager said that he was uncomfortable discussing the issue and ended the call.
For me, the job was over 1000 miles away. Naturally before taking that kind of plunge, I want to have a good feel for what I am getting into.
And here are some replies to said post:
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Very true
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I did not get the job.
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You never had a chance. You just permitted a checkmark on a form to be signed “under penalty of perjury.”
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I would have mixed feelings about working for a H-1B Dependent employer. I would like to help them transition over to being a US employer, but I would be nervous about the relationships with fellow workers. I did go through the process. I will not be working for this employer not because of my decision. It was because of their decision.
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I would have done the exact same thing. I have.
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Not all h1 are work for outsourcing companies, they hate outsourcing as equal as any others here. Because they get treated badly by these big indian IT companies , also threatened by these companies to issue any reference letters. To get cheaper rates how hiring h1 is wrong ,it is the same issue when they outsource the Job just selling out the job on whole sale
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I simply don’t understand the utter lack of patriotism, the lack of concern for fellow Americans, the overt greed – all of this for H1b visas.
And that’s assuming that H1b visas are a good thing which they are NOT
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And yet another post:
Two years ago, I helped a young STEM SF grad apply to more than 100 jobs (similar to ones mentioned) and some jobs were actually internships, and others were entry level positions in STEM. Internship paid $10 an hr in South SF– cant even eat, let alone live on that in SF. We tracked how many responses we got. We got zero responses. We know that companies advertise just to show they are looking for US Citizens, but really they only want H1b. Reason is employers know H1b is dependent on them for their visa, so they will work 60 to 80 hrs a week, and stick around for many yrs. I was really shocked that the young grad got not a single response, not even for jobs that mentioned no experience needed.
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And another post:
Amazon will definitely fire most engineers and other tech workers in 3 yrs as their stock options kick in in 4th yr. That is also one reason they prefer to get the H1b from Infosys and other Indian companies, so they can work them to death and never have to pay a dime extra. Amazon is super greedy, just like the other tech companies
And another post:
It’s pretty common to take advantage of young people by working them very hard and making them think that the real rewards will come later. (I have fallen for that myself in the past … more than once, unfortunately, thinking naively that things would be different in a different organization.) I think it was different decades ago. When I was young, some of the experienced people I knew were treated and compensated well, and we looked at them and wanted to work our way up to that level. Instead for our generation, we only got the hard work part in the early years, then we got dumped for younger, cheaper people. This is made possible by (a) an overabundance of IT labor (for decades) and (b) short-sighted management that only evaluates cost per hour and doesn’t understand (or doesn’t care about) real differences in productivity and efficiency.
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And another post:
This is interesting. This is the first time I’ve seen this type of statement in a job posting:
QUALIFIED APPLICANTS: Click “Apply to job” below and follow instructions.
THIS NOTICE IS BEING POSTED AS THE RESULT OF THE FILING OF AN APPLICATION FOR PERMANENT ALIEN LABOR CERTIFICATION. ANY PERSON MAY PROVIDE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE BEARING ON THE APPLICATION TO THE CERTIFYING OFFICER OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR AT:
United States Department of Labor
Employment and Training Administration
Atlanta National Processing Center
Harris Tower
233 Peachtree Street, N.E., Suite 410
Atlanta, Georgia 30303
All qualified applicants will receive consideration for employment without regard to race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, national origin, protected veteran status, or disability status.
PepsiCo is an equal opportunity employer Minorities/Females/People with Disabilities/Protected Veterans/Sexual Orientation/Gender Identity.
If you’d like more information about your EEO rights as an applicant under the law, please download the available EEO is the Law (http://pep.jobs/eeo-poster) & EEO is the Law Supplement (http://pep.jobs/eeo-poster-supplement) documents by copying and pasting the appropriate URL in the address bar of your web browser.
To view our Pay Transparency Statement, please click here: Pay Transparency Statement
And here are some replies to said post:
This is to fulfill a legal requirement for any company seeking to sponsor a foreign worker for a green card (not H-1B). This Atlanta address came up years ago and it is essentially a drop box for companies to fulfill a legal requirement that they did all they could to find an American worker by merely posting some job add with the DOL. Of course, none of these postings are actually meant to attract responses.
This is the usual M.O. You have the H-1 that you want to hire hand over their resume. Like most developers in the IT field they have a hodge podge of seemingly random work experiences: 5 years Sybase, 4 years PowerBuilder, 1 year Fortran, 1 year Data Science, Sun Java Certification, etc. etc. Then you advertise for exactly what’s on that resume. If an American citizen happens to show up with that *exact* skill set (and there will only be a handful at that point), you find a way to disqualify the Americans based on salary or any other arcane/random requirement. This is how the game is played to ensure that that particular H-1 candidate and only that H-1 candidate is “qualified” for the job even though the actual job will require doing less than half of the skills listed in the bogus job description. Clever huh?
guess I found my answer;
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/tlIAP1OUTPu9vOm0hN7MgK/TCS-HCL-among-frontrunners-for-Pepsi-outsourcing-contract.html
And yet another post:
One Indian on H1b told me that Ebay had 90% engineers H1B form Inida or other countries, most from India.
Here is a post from Breitbart:
In the 1980s I was a college student working on a degree in Electronics Engineering Technology. I was hired before graduation to join a new company in a new data communications field. The company sent me to school to learn that business during the next year. That is what is needed today.
The H1B program is flawed to allow companies to hire cheap labor from India and train them, as I was trained in the 1980s.
I know bar tenders that have advanced engineering degrees that cannot find a job. They were replaced by H1Bs.
And another post from Breitbart:
My fifth grader son has already finished the JavaScript class. Now, he’s taking Java class online. It’s not going to study computer science in college. I don’t want my kids to repeat my mistakes. In our company, almost the entire IT department is h1b visa. The few remaining American IT workers are treated like lepers.
And here is a post from another Breitbart article:
Fidelity Investments in Boston replaced me + 25,000 other Americans with H1-B visa’s then the Stop & Shop grocery forced me to train my H1-B visa replacements. And just like the lady in this article there are at least a dozen H1-B’s sharing an apartment across the street from me.
Our government did this to us. Makes me angry.
I interned at Stop & Shop while I was getting my software engineering degree at Northeaster U then when Fidelity started replacing 1000’s of us with H1-B’s I lucked out and returned to Stop & Shop writing code to process sales. At Fidelity I was making $200K+ as a contractor and $120K @ Stop & Shop as a full time salaried employee. Today I make $60K as a clerk/administrator @ Boston Medical.
Here is a post from the anti-H1B group:
if only they could PEEK inside the gargantuan offices of Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, Capital One, DOJ, USCIS, SEC, Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS), Amtrak, EPA, DHS, NIMH, CMS and countless health agencies…. the very federal govt. they are protesting is REEKING with indians on visas…. filled to the brim. THIS IS WHAT 8 YEARS OF OBAMA DID TO THIS MARVELOUS COUNTRY. And it will take Trump and others more than twice as long as to undo……………… sobering thought
Here is a post from a Breitbart article:
Myself having lost 3 great paying jobs to H1-B visa’s – Told my oldest son I am not paying a penny of your tuition if you major in computer science.
And here is another post:
It should. Those of us that have been in IT for years and have seen what has happened first hand are scared for the rest of the country — it is *not* stopping with IT. The scam is now involving architects, engineers, chemists, nurses – even teachers. The visas used by colleges is not included in the counts/limits. This problem is HUGE and needs to be addressed soon.
And yet another post:
Lowe’s last week outsourced their entire IT department & flat out stated that an IT worker makes a salary of $50-$60K a year, while in India, they pay each employee $60 per month. Even McDonalds outsourced last year, which received very little media coverage. I would stop all H1-B persons immediately unless corporations pay the same amount plus benefits, just like an American citizen, as well as housing and moving costs. Companies will then hire American STEM graduates, who have wracked up tons of school debt. Make foreign workers very expensive, & this garbage will stop.
Here is a comment in an article that was complaining about Disney (actually, the article was about the gay Beauty and the Beast thing, but the comment fits on Disney infamy):
I haven’t supported Disney in a long time. So, not going to this movie is an easy thing to do. I swore off them completely when they fired American workers, forced them to train their foreign replacements (who were working for less, naturally), then, blacklisted them from other jobs. Disney told their sub-contracting companies not to hire the then-jobless Americans and if those companies hired any of them, they’d lose their Disney contracts. I wonder how many people realize that about Disney? Happened within the last two years. So, no…I won’t support Disney in any way. This was simply the last straw in a fairly big hay-bale for me.
Here is a post from the anti-H1B group:
This is the most egregious H-1B visa application that I have found so far. This application has been certified for FIFTY “INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SPECIALISTs” working for Adobe Systems in Lehi Utah for a wage of $23,462 per year, less than $12/hour.
https://h1bfacts.com/visa/I-200-16085-389807/2016
And here are some replies to said post:
I worked at Adobe in 2006 and was thrown out by this racist manager, Anil Bhavnani, who went around writing down the names of all the white American programmers so he could throw us all out of work. 499 out of 500 laid off were white Americans
23k is literally tyeh number I was told several yrs ago by a mgr friend at my ex company that they were paying PER HEAD for H-1b. this is in downtown chicgo in a fort 100 corporation, NOT in backwaters of Miss.
So immigrants make up 42% of California’s STEM workforce and in New Jersey, the number is even higher. No wonder Americans are having trouble getting STEM jobs there: http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/07/14/immigrants-are-42-percent-of-californias-stem-workforce/
Here is another post from the anti-H1B visa group:
Totally fake job requirement sent to me by an H1b dependent body shop.
I wouldn’t include the name, but “Jane Morgan” is most likely fake.
Hello,
Hope you are doing great.
My name is Jane Morgan and I represent Arete Technologies Inc. I am sharing job requirement with one of our direct client “State of IA”. I’m looking to is hiring is “Security Analyst 3” Would you like to learn more?
If so, please send an updated copy of your resume at janem@aretetechnologiesinc.com OR call at +1 (919) 447 1299 Ext: – 403 for detailed conversation.
Title: Security Analyst 3
Location: Des Moines, IA 50321
Postion Type: Contract
Duration: 8 + Months
Description:
· The security analyst is responsible for advising IPERS in all policies regarding security.
· Knowledge and understanding of information risk concepts and principles, as a means of relating business needs to security controls.
· Knowledge of and experience in developing and documenting security architecture and plans, including strategic, tactical and project plans.
· Proficiency in performing risk, business impact, control and vulnerability assessments.
· Knowledge of network infrastructure, including routers, switches, firewalls, and the associated network protocols and concepts.
· Technical knowledge of Microsoft Windows and a wide range of security technologies, such as network security appliances, identity and access mgt tools
Desired skills:
· SafeNet Luna HSM administration
· COOP/COG coordinator
· Windows PKI administration
· Network Forensics
· Log parsing
· Incident Response
· Continuous Monitoring
· Power shell Scripting
· HID Credential Management System administration
· Varonis DatAdvantage, DatAlert, and DataPrivilege administration
· Vormetric DSM administration – file level encryption product
· OSINT – Open Source Intelligence gathering and analysis
· End User security training program administration
· Maldoc analysis
Skill
Required / Desired
Amount
of Experience
Manage vulnerability scans and assist administrators in verification and remediation with Tripwire IP360
Required
5
Years
Proxy administration, configuration and troubleshooting; Forcepoint Triton AP Web
Required
3
Years
SIEM configuration, management, and analysis; Solarwinds Log and Event Manager
Required
3
Years
Application Whitelisting administration; Carbon Black Enterprise Protection (formerly bit 9)
Required
3
Years
Windows Forensics and investigations
Highly desired
5
Years
Internal Policies compliance
Highly desired
5
Years
Risk Management
Highly desired
5
Years
Familiarity with implementing CIS Critical Security Controls and/or Australian Signals Directorate Essential Eight
Highly desired
3
Years
Best Regards,
Jane Morgan
Technical Recruiter
Description: cid:image001.png@01D2C40C.34DD3690
*National MBE Certified Enterprise*
Address: 647 Peach Orchard Place, Cary, NC, 27519, USA
Contact No: +1 (919) 447 1299 Ext:- 403
Fax : +1 (919) 447 1299
E-mail ID: janem@aretetechnologiesinc.com
Website: www.aretetechnologiesinc.com
*Arete Technologies, Inc. is an Equal Employment Opportunity and Affirmative Action Employer*
And here are some replies to said post:
I like that they’re looking for someone with experience in “Australian Signals Directorate Essential Eight”. Obviously cut and pasted directly from a Visa holder’s resume.
The resume copied from is a 23yo Indian. 
😆
fraud then
Aren’t they all?
This is what H-1b fraud is all about. The fake resume guy is brought in and an American forced to train in order to receive severance package
That’s a legit opening. Check on DICE. A few companies have posted the same opening.
It might be a “real” listing, but I find these symptomatic of the dishonesty of the current system and the extremely saturated market. We all hear how data security specialists are in short supply, yet they can require that long list of specifics at that rate? Does that sound like a market with a shortage? In a market with a shortage, rates go up, and requirements get less specific. When’s the last time that happened? Also, I’ve applied for positions … hundreds of them … with a long list of specific requirements where I actually met most or all of them, but still didn’t even get an interview. In some cases that was without giving a salary requirement or in a few cases without even a salary history. Yet somehow they had so many candidates that they could rule me out based on some other unspoken criteria.
Rate is $35/hr. Also listed on Indeed.com
I do see Infinite Computing Systems posted the same requirements and it is also an H1B dependent firm http://www.myvisajobs.com/…/Infinite…/261689.htm
With such rate they obviously target outsourcing firm or h1.
But when everyone of us know, it is legally done with government blessings
What I would do is, don’t send any particulars. Just ask the vendor what’s the rate. If too low, propose your rate and see how it goes. Keep the emails for records and that way you can report them to USCIS.
I ran into another one of these today, ad that was really an attempt to cover paperwork so an H1B could be hired. I call the guy and sure enough, he’s in India with the hourly rate being far less than what we can work for here.
It’s really bad in the SF Bay Area. We would leave but can’t due to my wife working for UC Berkeley. We’re stuck.
Same story in Dallas I’m afraid.
We were there, lived in Plano for years. I understand the place isn’t anywhere near what it used to be.
I feel your pain. Never felt old and obsolete until I moved to the Bay Area
Irving is highly concentrated.
6 out of 7 emails that I received so far today have been from body shop cockroaches.
And another post from said group:
My report of H-1B visa fraud to the USCIS (ReportH1BAbuse@uscis.dhs.gov)
To whom it may concern,
I would like to report H-1B visa fraud by IBM and its subsidiaries. During the past three years, IBM has received certification for over 27,000 H-1B visa workers. Employers that have over 50 employees and more than 15% of their employees being H-1B visa recipients are designated as an “H-1B Dependent” employer. In order for IBM to have less than 15% of their employees to be H-1B employees, IBM would need to employ 180,000 workers in the US, which is obviously not the case.
IBM is an “H-1B Dependent” employer and refuses to indicate such on their LCA applications.
Sincerely,
[Name withheld]
Here is a post from the anti-H1B group page:
I had been an independent contractor for google located downtown, Austin, Texas for 15 months last year and the year before that. I finished up my contract last December and I returned back to my hometown of El Paso, Texas. The managers that I had worked for at Google were impressed with my professionalism and my job performance and told me that they wanted me back sometime soon in the near future for other projects that were in the pipeline.
So just this last June Google in Austin, Texas called me and told me that they wanted me for a full time job on their fraud prevention, identity theft team. So I did a technical interview over the phone with them and everything and after that the people at Google decided bring me down to Austin for a round of face to face interviews. After I did that, they told me that they wanted to hire me on as a perm position ASAP. So they asked me to go get drug tested, and fingerprinted and to do some background information that needed to filled out online. After I did all that, I didn’t hear back from them. So I called the HR lady who was in charge of staffing up that department and she never not once returned any of my phone calls, or my emails. I was dumbfounded and I couldn’t figure what had gone wrong and why they decided to pull the plug on me and let the whole thing just fizzle out on me like that.
Until today I was no longer dumbfounded or confused, because I contacted a friend of mine who still works there and I told him what happened to me and he told me that the office space that Google had set up in downtown Austin where my project was supposed to be located is now completely overrun with Indian H1B visa workers and that the running joke among the IT people and the Engineers at Google in Downtown, Austin is to call that place little New Delhi or little junior Hyderabad.
Needless to say, I am really super-duper pissed off like you wouldn’t believe right now. I need some moral support from people here to talk me down from the anger that I feel right now.
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And here are some posts on said article:
This is ridiculous, trucker shortage. I don’t think so. There is a shortage of professional drivers.
These guys are some of the most rude and unprofessional on the road.
Working longer hours? FMCSA has done nothing but hurt this industry with all the new regs, e-logs, hours of service changes and CSA 2010.
Anyone that lives on the road as I do and have for 20 years can see it.
We can only work 13.5 hours a day combined between driving and on duty not driving. They say 14 hours but we have to take a 30 minute break before 8 hours so we lose 30 minutes off of our time.
So working the longer hours makes me wonder if FMCSA, DOT, CSA are doing their jobs.
MONEY!!!! That is all it is.
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There. Is. No. Driver. Shortage. The proof is in the fact that wages have stagnated for 30 years. The current average trucker salary is about $40,000 per year. The current average trucker work schedule is about 330 days out annually, roughly 19 on and 2 off, and 14 hour workdays, including “off duty” time that doesn’t belong to the driver while waiting to load. That just barely equates to minimum wage $7.25 per hour plus overtime. Minimum wage for a job that requires professional licensure, a higher cost of living, and what most people would consider hardship living conditions. They aren’t filling a gap. They’re being used to keep wages depressed. If NO new drivers entered the industry for the next 10 years or so, the “shortage” would balance out, forcing appropriate wages. The main advantage is the near gaurantee of “overtime” to maximize equipment productivity, compared to other jobs typically limited to a 40 hour work week (ironically without HOS regulations; that’s what happens when you have to pay overtime. To counter that, you have to hire enough employees to keep work hours below 40 and pay a professional wage to attract the needed workforce.) With a $15 minimum wage gaining traction, trucking could eventually become an entry level job to a career delivering pizza. Let that sink in.
So one guy said that American drivers have helped him out a lot. But then because the same guys who helped him out aren’t eating and drinking together he’s more of a driver?
Let’s look at this on a bigger scale. The H1b drivers are depressing wages so much that people who would become drivers, or are past drivers don’t want to drive because the wages are so low that it’s not worth it?
Who you crapping. The H1b drivers are the problem!
If you want to end the alleged driver shortage raise the wages!
I was making .38 per mile with a .02 paperwork bonus and a .02 idle bonus and $20 a stop -1st and last 13 years ago. It’s a crying shame that the industry has fallen this far down with wages for you OTR guys and gals.
I hear ya.
How difficult is it for H1b Drivers to get a license?
I thought you had to be a US Citizen to get a CDL?
(i thought the article was good for pointing out the issues with Trucker Wages. Can’t increase wages if the supply of Drivers is high…especially if you can get H1b’s to drive).
I don’t know that the answer to that question either? What the hell are these guys doing taking our Jobs because they simply have an H1b Visa?
I posted the article because i thought it was interesting how the immigrants stick together, but on the down side, they are diluting the work force for Americans. AMERICAN Drivers need to stick together MORE-SO than ever.
I disagree with hiring H1b Drivers over Americans with full citizenship.
Here is an article about Intel and H1B visas: http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/08/18/intel-ceo-bailed-trump-manufacturing-council-sought-8k-h-1b-workers-u-s-jobs/
And here are some comments on said article:
I know at least a dozen people who were laid off by Intel, and replaced with H1B people. Most of them never returned to the tech world they worked in for many years. There are PLENTY of skilled people here, but they don’t want to be treated like slaves.
These CEOs that are complaining about the Trump’s speech not decrying the White Supremacists want to be slave owners. Can you say Hypocrisy.
I know graduates of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science who have spent most of the past decade submitting their applications to companies like Intel, not even to receive the most basic courtesy of a professional response.
When Intel doesn’t even bother to “shop” the domestic market, how dare they claim they need foreign nationals to conduct their business.
John Binder, you have understated Intel’s H-1B visa applications. In 2016 alone, Intel had 1585 H-1B visas certified by the DOL, many visa applications were for 50 workers apiece. Collectively, Intel was certified for 4056 workers in 2016 alone, while laying off 12000 US workers.
All of this while receiving job applications most likely from basically every US citizen or Canadian recent graduate of Electrical of Computer Engineering.
Intel, with the sheer amount of interest in their company, has zero excuse to be even using a single H-1B worker. If they need a best and brightest foreign national they can use the O-1 visa.
Here is a post from the anti-H1B group:
Now, half a decade since HP threw 30,000 Americans into the street, and people think nothing of the H-1b. They think it’s a political boutique issue, or that I’m a “1 issue voter” for staying focused on it. Let me make this real clear. I would physically fight for this issue, I would fight members of my own family if I had to. The offshoring of jobs and factories is destroying this nation. If it doesn’t end, I’ll eventually need to expatriate. No nation ever prospered by dismantling itself.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B group:
I know many big Indian IT not paying the consultants or contractors on time. This results in failure of payment of salary on time to those employed by the 3rd party vendors doest matter you are citizen or on H1. But if you are on H1 then it is illegal and USCIS allows these kind of issues to continue. Is this not a violation of law.I know many who was not paid for more than a 3 or 4 months. Otherwise to keep them in payroll the employer has to pay a portion to keep the payroll running , just like they do while they are in bench. In fact the IT gaint use this to threaten the 3rd party vendors H1s to join their company.
And another post from the anti-H1B group:
When I was working at DELL computers in Austin and Dallas I saw the fired American workers accompanied by company HR officials and company security guards being marched single file circus elephant style holding their personal belongings in cardboard boxes while being escorted out of the front door of the building while out back of the building in a holding/reception area hundreds of foreign guest visa workers were waiting to go into the building to take the jobs that the American citizen workers were in the process of losing.
I even saw my DELL office mate who got laid from his job having to train his h1b visa replacement for six weeks or he would not be eligible to receive his severance package or his unemployment compensation. So yeah the whole thing stinks to high heaven and then some and things like what I just described up above should not be happening in America. We live in better country than that. Or at least that is what I thought……..
Simply put……….What this is is runaway predatory capitalism at its worst and it all started with Ronald Reagan with all of his bullshit propaganda mantras of “Getting the government off the backs of the people” bullshit garbage. What Ronald Reagan was really saying were hidden message code words. In reality what Ronald Reagan really wanted to do and was saying was that he wanted to get the government off the backs of his uber rich billionaire friends so that the corporations that they owned and controlled could get away with these kinds of nasty shit business practices that have for over the last thirty years screwed over the American worker and the middle class and that have brought Capitalism here in the US and around the world to its proverbial knees and to its last dying breaths.
And yet another post from said group:
My husband got laid off by Qualcomm in September 2016 after 15 years of employment. Our lives have been in turmoil since. He’s depressed on most days. Who do we turn to? I am convinced NO ONE cares!! What goes around comes around. The younger Chinese guy who took over his office space will have the same fate.
Here is a post from a Reddit thread:
I started working for one of the largest multinational companies (non tech industry) in the world fresh out of college and I’m a little bit taken back by the amount of H-1B contractors and outsourcing. Nothing against these H-1B workers personally, I’ve become friends with a lot of them.
However, it does kind of reduce morale especially with building rapport and team dynamics because you can’t talk to them about inside company info, they can’t attend company events, I feel like I’m talking to my eventual replacement, they come/go, etc.
Just want to hear from your guy’s end if this normal? If I move to a more start up type company would it be any different?
And here are some replies to said post:
Yes. Get used to it. It usually comes in cycles, too. Execs will shuffle in and out, they will bring staff back in house and then when they’re trying to line up their bonuses or a new job, ship em out again.
Let me guess, when they ship em out they are praised for saving costs, when they bring them back in they are praised for increasing jobs and making the company more employee centric.
Even worse, they’re usually praised with the increase in quality across the board. Unfortunately, a LOT of workers who this type of work gets outsourced to are woefully undertrained, if not just flat out incompetent. Management definitely gets what they pay for with this sort of labor. So once the work reaches a critical mass of awfulness (which is definitely going to happen long after everyone in IT is already complaining it has), they bring the work in house to “clean up” using “local experts”. Then the cycle begins again to clear out “redundancies” once shit is done hitting the fan.
it’s more of an industry thing than per company thing. it’s a general trend, not a hard and fast rule.
The best you can do is hope for relatively sane management and do what you can to work around it
Also depends on the quality of the people being hired. A huge mass of untrained people coming in all at once will implode a lot faster than a higher quality company that provides more skilled employees at a slower pace.
Worst case is when a company tries to cope with rapid corporate growth by quickly bringing in contractors – that’ll de-stabilize an already shaky situation.
Cycle of norm , just in case dust off your resume with your new position.
I recently started working as a contractor in a very large business and I’ve noticed there are contractors in every single area. Personally I feel like there are too many that are under qualified. It is true that the upper management see it as a cheap solution and in my case the upper management are completely oblivious to what they are asking us to do. They see projected numbers but don’t realize how unrealistic they are.
Sadly it’s become a sort of norm.
I’ve worked as a contractor at large international companies (Wells Fargo, Gap) as well, and I’ve seen what you’re talking about. It really fucking sucks as a contractor as an American, just for work related reasons. Add the social segregation on ethnic lines on top of that and you’ve got a really toxic environment. Imagine how those guys deal with that.
It may be ‘nothing personal’ but if I were working in another country and found myself excluded from meetings and decisions or treated like a second class anything, it would be hard to believe that it wasn’t bigotry. That does indeed take a toll on morale.
Yeah trust me, I’m not american myself but I’ve lived here the majority of my life, sound american, etc so that’s why I understand these folks struggles and try to befriend them, give them tips, etc. But at the same time it’s also frustrating on my end because again I don’t know at what point I’m talking to my replacement. It’s rather conflicting…
I work as a contractor for a major international company and I think 80% of us are contractors. My head spun the first time I heard that. We are kind of treated as second class citizens but overall it is okay. It is weird having so many long term contractors though.
The larger the company the larger the outsourcing. If you want in house teams you’re going to need to look at smaller companies.
You have to find that balance between not being too small where the company can outsource and not being too big where they can outsource.
Very common, especially in places where IT/Software isn’t considered a “core competency” or there are laws/regulations/contracts dictating where work can be done.
I worked for a medium sized org that got bought by a large sized org and both places had a significant amount of outsourcing. Which was sad because the medium sized place was at one point, a pioneer in a field where basically IT was their advantage and they never fully developed it because they “didn’t want to be a tech company.”
If you hear any outsourcing,internship, self employed, part time in any requirement website , don’t do that , most of them poor work condition , low pay , over qualification , as my friend try that I.T employment trap , the whole I.T company (rubbish Microware Ltd in Hong Kong ) compare to ASL and PCCW enterprises they have three hundred staff , more 80-90% were outsourced, but according their financial report list in stock exchange , earning as same as AAPL and MSFT those grant ,
What you do is looks likes low skill worker compared to another undergraduate to have expert I.T certificate
The government contracts and financial banking information technology contracts is the most profitable and easiest job to do
Finally , don’t trust any job agency or discuss in any private area(most of them the manager office) or meeting room if you discussing in wages or benefits , must be in public area more than two staff and self recording audio
Also , you have to print it out the job contract by yourself, don’t be feeling sham or lost face , my friend in retired human resource said most of the new information technology men getting scam most of the time
Don’t refused to pay tax to government as well , the record have benefited for identifying next job you wage
Don’t trust any mega title likes CEO of IT , director/ senior manager/VP etc , ask them directly how many IT budget you under management before , how many staff under you control ( requirements or fire )
This is the most valuable information for new help desk , specialist without scam by the 50-70 Year’s old non technology dummy and 20-40 years old sexy lady human resource, good lucks
Here are some posts from a Breitbart article on workers in IT fearing ageism as a big threat to their jobs:
As a 20+ year employee who was laid-off from HP a number of years ago, I suspect that the age of the employees is not the cause but rather that they were long-term employees. Long-term employees cost the company more since they have typically have higher salaries and have accrued more benefits like time off, plus are bigger potential burden post-career (i.e., pension benefits, etc.). That said, as an older worker myself I’ve been concerned once dumped on the job market about the ageism factor when competing for new jobs.
I believe some of the biggest companies in the industry follow a model where they hire young, energetic workers, then work them to death, fully expecting them to eventually burn out and leave. It is interesting these same companies are among those who champion (and heavily use) H1B workers claiming a shortage of software professionals in the U.S.. The reality is, there is no shortage, but there may be a shortage of entry level workers willing to put up with that corporate environment.
Another major problem is the ever-changing landscape in terms of technology. Many companies use a very specific skill list when hiring. They expect the applicant to have years of experience in exactly the latest technology they have decided to use (even when that technology is only a year or two old). While that seems logical (i.e., get the best candidate), I’ve seen many positions go unfilled for months and months when they apparently can’t find the perfect candidate. IMO they’d do better to hire candidates with a proven track record of working in various technologies then train them as needed. But software companies don’t seem to be focused on developing a workforce for the long term.
As a 63 year old Engineer that went through layoffs, every third Thursday of the month every month for over 5 years and still more layoffs after that, and enduring the so called “Fresh Idea and Young crowd” who complained when they could not get on Facebook because of Wi Fi congestion and were so condescending I wanted to pimp slap most of them – I have no pity for them what so ever. There is that small minority of 30 somethings that work their collective rear ends off, but they are a small minority and growing smaller.
Entry level and younger workers are cheaper. They often are not yet married and have no children. Their lack of family obligations also makes them much more flexible with regards to transfers and work hours. They don’t have a lot of vacation time (1 week as opposed to 4 or even 5 weeks for older workers who have been there a long time.) and are relatively healthy, so don’t take a lot of sick days.
Older workers have more benefits: more vacation time, more sick time accrued, have had pay increases over time and typically have family insurance plans, and may have developed health issues that cause time off. If a younger employee is doing the same job, the company would like to jettison the older worker in favor of the younger. It’s illegal, and company HR departments do a lot of finagling to make it happen. But they make it happen little by little over time. (One tactic is offering a severance program, and making sure it is only offered to expensive older workers and the dead wood…non-productive or inept younger workers.)
Some of the big tech companies in Mass. got bought out by Indian owners. They make the Americans stay and teach the dot heads the manufacturing systems. If the anyone walks they get a hard time on their buy out. It’s all wrong to see foreigners taking 60-70K positions from Americans. It’s all wrong.
Same thing at the Honeywell APU factory in Phoenix they moved the work and a 1,000 jobs to Mexico and threaten the workers with loss of pension and buy-outs if they did not teach the Mexicans their jobs.
Vote Trump to stop this BS.
So now we’re using the H1B visa to get pizza cooks: https://cis.org/North/Government-Allowed-Pizza-Cook-Enter-US-H1B-Visa
Here is another post from the anti-H1B group:
Serious question – I have almost 20 years of experience in IT, working primarily in data analysis areas. I can’t get jobs any more, even after reducing “desired salary” by 30-40% or basically telling people “just make me an offer”. One part of the problem is probably too much downtime on my resume in the last few years, another is that I don’t have a technical degree (I have multiple degrees, but not in C.S., because I was a career changer.)
I started looking at Information Security training/certifications. Does anyone have opinions on whether it would do any good to go down that path. Has anyone tried that or something similar … being a long time pro who completely jumps the tracks into a very different area of specialization within IT?
And here are some replies to said post:
I honestly doubt after 20 years of experience, what your degree is in makes a difference. Downtime does hurt you. What hurts you, even more, is trying to get a job in IT. It is a shrinking market and you are competing with $10 an hour opt, l-1b, and desperate many looking for a job. My advice to you is to find something away from the hard core type IT jobs. Remember over 85% visa workers are in IT.
After 20 years the degree shouldn’t matter, but it does, a lot of the time. For some positions it’s an absolute requirement to be considered. For others I think it’s a way to quickly cut down the massive number of applicants. Also … having thought this over a lot because I have too much time to do it … I think there is some resistance to the idea that the IT degree shouldn’t matter from people who HAVE IT degrees … including hiring managers. Even though they might be quick to assert that tech changes quickly and your current skills are what matters, I think a lot of them also get offended by the suggestion that someone without that degree can do the kinds of work that they do.
I am sure your perception is on the money. But it is a moot point. You don’t want to be looking for a job in a sinking field. Figure out what and where to apply your skills.
It’s tough trying to stomach starting over once you are past a certain age, since of course the time recoup investments in retraining and starting at the bottom is completely different than it was in your 20’s. That’s one of the particularly insidious things about age discrimination … it targets the people who have the most invested, the most to lose and the least time to try to recover.
This is not age discrimination if anything it is discrimination based on national origin. You are an American in a field where most workers are not. I feel your pain. But better get busy. You are not getting any younger.
Yep you could have a phd in cs, downtime is a catch 22, first they don’t hire you, then they don’t hire you because of down time, then they change the job description from sys admin to devils, so u have no experience etc
I’ve definitely seen cases firsthand where it seemed like that was what was going on. The frustrating thing about all of this is that you’d like to just say “their loss” and move on, but the craziness is pervasive in this market.
I see many underemployed or unemployed, they are just Americans and older, younger folks are finding all the interviewing run around frustrating, and often does not work, requirements tend to be too specific too
From what I have seen, job applicant pre-screening appears automated – required degree, languages, buzzwords. NUNA (No Unemployed Need Apply) kicks in – Robert Half Associates is a BIG practitioner. Shortly after finishing M.S. (I was ‘hiding’ out in grad school during dot com bubble burst), recruiter seen my resume which CLEARLY listed my grad date, she had the nerve to say “what have you done lately?”. With her attitude, if she was in the same room I would have scalped her on the spot.
Age Discrimination IS an issue. We know what works, what doesn’t, won’t be be pushed around, know what we’re worth. Employers want cheap serfs, not professionals.
“tough trying to stomach starting over once you are past a certain age” – true! Tried that w/ education for 5- 6 years, not teaching material.
I have current skills and I can’t buy an interview either
Age is a big part
Massive tidal wave of non-immigrant guest workers is the main culprit
Study the jobs divided by population that I have at jobsvspopulation.com
I have 20+ years too, but I’m doing okay (but I worry too). I recently studied to get an AWS Associate Developer cert. Cloud skills (AWS is simply the most popular) are in demand. Udemy offers courses in AWS for $20-50 by Cloudguru. I find them really good. People our age can’t compete with junior folks simply as programmers (or whatever your computer skill happens to be), you need to augment your resume with in-demand specialist skillsets that junior people can’t get from school. With me I focus on knowing how to apply AWS architecture to apps and can advise how to migrate them to the cloud. By the way, I have a history degree from 1992, but it never comes up in interviews. Good luck!
I have the same issues finding work. It started when I turned 50 & now I’m 56. May I ask how old you are?
I’m still in my late 40’s, but my hair has been slowly turning gray for a long time, and there is a lot of gray now, so that probably doesn’t help. I’m guessing that’s just one of many factors, but it’s not like I really know.
A little hair color for men takes care of the gray hair. Get out there and get it. Believe me, it is not your age. It is the macro market conditions that are holding you back. The job market sucks for everyone. IT is the worst market for you to be looking for a job in. If you have been out of work for a while… You need to upgrade your skills. It does not have to be a drastic upgrade. Have you managed people? What else have you done? Take an inventory of your skills and find out where the market strength is.
I’ve been a direct manager, and it’s on my resume. I’ve also taken some online classes in the last couple of years, but no one seems to care much. I agree that most of it is macro. The macro conditions allow employers to be ultra-picky, and what we are talking about are just some of the dumb things about which they choose to be picky. Improve the macro supply-demand balance and all of those stupid picky things could go away.
I’m in my late 50s. I have undergrad and grad degrees in IT. I have had certs MCSE, and VMware 3 and 4. I have current ITIL, PMP, CISM and what do they want? CISA which is the prior 3 exams plus experience. HR doesn’t know what is needed. I’m asking for a salary that I was getting for a PM which is lower than for a security position. Maybe they think if you ask too low, there is something wrong?
To tell you the truth, I have a CISM and it hasn’t helped me. The CISSP is the cert that most companies ask about. CISA is great if you’re going for auditing type positions, but what I see is that companies also want big 4 experience along with the CISA. Big 4 hire mainly right out of school and rely heavily on H1Bs.
With your background, you may be better off staying with security engineering.
I’ve experienced that hospitals and healthcare companies are more accepting of people new to security.
The pay is usually less, but the experience is invaluable.
A good friend at Accenture has a CISSP. Accenture has never made use of that CISSP in a consulting gig. His money maker at Accenture? High-end Project Management.
Security I T professionals have demand especially cyber. Many companies incorporating in digital age with many challenges.
Wages are down and u have to jump through hoops, most times for nothing
The truth is on the job boards. Is there a need? Most definitely. Do companies want to add headcount and pay for that need? Not so much.
Security is a cost center, so many companies rather just roll the dice.
Can you really believe the job boards? Dice lists 72,000 jobs. When you filter out all the crap, I’d bet the number of actual jobs on Dice is closer to 7,200 openings.
I’ll look at indeed or LinkedIn to get an idea of the job market for a particular region.
Of course you have to consider the duplicate postings and just plain garbage postings, like Wells Fargo that posts the same positions, over and over, in multiple states.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B and outsourcing group:
I work in a non-technical role now with a large global company. I do some technical work also. I do it because they NEED my technical work.
Today, the IT department met with me to take much of my technical work away. This included being DBA on a MS SQL server (yes, less than a challenge). I’m pretty sure the duty will go to an H-1b in California (where I used to live).
They asked me how much of the business side the DBA would need to know. I answered “none”. They asked me, “will he be able to understand what you need?” I answered, “I’ll send him the DDL, he won’t need to know anything”. The meeting went silent. They fully understood, they may be lowering the DBA skill level in what they are about to do.
Hey at least I’m working again. Three goddamn years unemployed. We live in a bona fide dumbed-down world.
Here is a post that I found stored on the anti-H1B visa group:
worked for Adobe Systems in San Jose, CA from Oct-Dec 2005 in a software engineering group as a contractor. Upon starting work I noticed that the company was jammed to the ceiling with foreign guest workers – mostly from India and China. In IT positions in the company there were barely 15% Americans overall. Our tiny group was mostly Americans because all worked on a niche computing platform that doesn’t focus on Windows. Most of my coworkers were Americans and my immediate boss was an American. However, his boss was from India and was apparently new to the company and had only been there about 5 months before I got there. In meetings I would notice that this senior Indian manager would constantly talk about “cross-training”. The company had rooms full of foreign guest workers doing nothing but sitting around learning new skills, not developing products. I would notice many of these foreign workers often going to the office of the technical lead in our group to ask him how things were done. The senior Indian manager himself didn’t really seem to know what he was doing as I would always hear him asking rudimentary development questions in the project manager’s office adjacent to mine. One time I even heard him asking the project manager where he got a prerelease installation CD for Microsoft’s upcoming operating system. The answer of course was “MSDN”. The project manager was an American also. One would think a highly skilled, highly educated senior IT manager from India would know such basic IT information, but apparently not.
There was also another engineering manager in another group who appeared to be from Viet Nam. She spoke broken English and was difficult to understand at times. I was tasked with writing some software for her group. Upon starting the project I asked her for a project GANTT chart for the tasks I was to work on. A GANTT chart is a standard project planning tool used on all properly run software projects. She didn’t even know what a GANTT chart was. Her idea of good software development practices was to send daily emails to developers saying “Oh and one more thing…”. She of course went home at 6 every night so she could watch TV while we had to stay until midnight to struggle with the ensuing chaos she created. She didn’t know the first thing about developing software. It does make one wonder why we are bringing these people into the country if they don’t already possess the skills claimed.
After about two months Adobe acquired Macromedia and it was announced a few weeks ahead of time that there would be layoffs as a result of the merger. I didn’t mind the layoffs so much as the way they happened and *who* was and was not laid off. I ended up getting laid off, as did my American boss, as did the American project manager in the office next to me. One other senior American Windows engineer in our group was laid off after being with Adobe 8 years. In a former life he had worked on the Xerox Star at PARC. Nope – no skills there! I guess he is one of the American workers who is not smart enough to work in American companies or one of the highly skilled American workers that companies claim they can’t “find”. In the end 5 people were laid off from our group. One was of Chinese descent but the other 4 were Americans – U.S. Citizens.
Two of the 4 laid off Americans in our group were REPLACED with two foreign Indian workers from within the company. One took my old manager’s job, and one took the Windows installer engineer’s job. The new Indian manager who replaced my boss came running around with a big smile on his face shaking everyone’s hand the next day with glee introducing himself and telling everyone he would be managing the group “going forward”. He could barely constrain his excitement. Both Indian workers were directly promoted to their new positions by the senior Indian manager in our group.
So in the end the senior Indian engineering manager took the merger and layoffs as a prime opportunity to slash Americans from the workforce, and to promote Indians into the same positions. I’ve seen this happen at nearly every company I’ve worked at. It’s an American worker replacement program. These people coming into the country possess little or zero of the skills claimed. The real goal is to get them into the country, TRANSFER the skills of existing American workers to them first, and then lay off the American workers. This has been the case at nearly every software company I have worked at in the past 8 years. It’s a mass skills transference plan on a national level. Of course, the CEOs and executives high up in these American companies are too ignorant and stupid to know that they are being conned, because all they see are the dollar signs from the money the Indians promise they will save. Of course in the end it never works because after 8 years of these shennanigans Silicon Valley is a wasteland of FOR LEASE signs.
None of these imported workers have delivered any of the economic benefits we were promised in 1998 when these programs were increased to mass levels. In fact, the opposite has happened. Instead of keeping the 90s booming economy going, these 3rd world workers have sucked it dry. Silicon Valley is dying and it is because these stupid companies are importing millions of fake workers under fraudulent pretenses and then the workers aren’t producing anything. All the 3rd world workers know is “IT is a good way to get rich”. So they come to Silicon Valley and the companies collapse. They move from company to company kicking out productive Americans, taking skills and money, and then not producing anything. When the company collapses they move on to the next one. One company after another goes under and the CEOs wonder why they can’t make this business model work anymore.
The Indian workers could care less about whether they destroy the companies or not. All they care about is taking. As one Indian worker said “We have to get our money before the Chinese do”. Yes, GET is their operative word. CREATE is not in their vocabulary. Meanwhile the very American workers who created the industry are deliberately being kept out of the workforce by managers like the senior Indian engineering manager at Adobe – so that unskilled Indian workers can have “jobs”. What is actually happening is that these imported workers are enjoying the benefits of the 20 million jobs Americans created in the 90s long before they got here. The imported workers are enjoying having those jobs now but they are not maintaining them nor are they creating new ones. They are getting a free ride coasting on jobs Americans created. Meanwhile the very American workers who GAVE them these jobs are being kicked out of their own job market by the imported workers themselves. That is the way 3rd world gratitude works I guess. This entire thing has been a fraudulent racket from day one.
There are plenty of IT jobs in America – it’s just that Americans are not being allowed to work in them and ones who are working in them are having their skills stolen from them and then they are being kicked out of the industry they have created. This is happening all over America on a huge scale. Americans can’t find jobs because they are being deliberately excluded from their own job market by racist Indians who will only hire other Indians for positions in IT. Our government is either complicit in the process or else they are too stupid to know they are being conned also.
The fact that nearly none of these workers possess the skills claimed and the fact that they are being given skills from existing American workers means that these guest worker programs amount to fraud. They are intended to deceive the American people. Intent to deceive is fraud. All guest workers imported since 1998 should be deported immediately and the jobs be given back to American workers. Laws should be passed that impose criminal penalties and jail time for any American executive that participates in such acts of fraud. Imported guest workers who engage in such behavior should be banned from ever entering the country again.
Now you know the truth about these fraudulent guest worker visa programs. Greedy CEOs and executives are giving away America’s most important economic engine to unskilled, uneducated 3rd worlders just so they can save a few bucks right now. These programs have been a total disaster for California’s economy and for Silicon Valley. They should all be ended immediately before they destroy the U.S.
And yet another post shared in said group:
I worked for Cisco Systems of San Jose, CA for almost four years. I was the last American to work in the Oracle Database Administration department of approximately 25 individuals at this site. Almost all of the remaining DBAs are from India on H1-B visas. Other technical departments have extremely similar demographics and it is obvious to all that only Indians need apply for technical positions. Several times, I attempted to submit resumes of qualified candidates only to be told ‘they wouldn’t be a good fit’ – and this was without interviewing or even looking at their resume beyond their names. I understand that even Indian US citizens were turned down for interviews when they mistakenly told Cisco representatives that they did not require sponsorship. I was given a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan), ironically enough, shortly before I had told several people that I was planning to leave the company soon as well as around the same time I sold a number of my stock options, a practice strongly discouraged by management as options become invalidated if an employee is terminated, saving the company large amounts of money. At my going away lunch, virtually the entire department, except for my manager who had also gotten rid of the earlier American DBAs, came to the lunch. I had very good relations with my Indian colleagues who could undoubtedly speak on my behalf as to my dedication, skills, and conscientiousness. When I was terminated, I was given a termination package but no reason was provided, despite my repeated requests. The best the PIP could do, was to say I did not answer my telephone by the third ring. The plan was followed but no matter what, I was told that it was not good enough. I was told that if I protested or considered legal action, my termination package would be revoked. If I was not planning to relocate, I would have pursued the company regardless as I was without doubt, discriminated against and very openly. Additionally, I was several years older than my manager as well as several years above the average of the generally younger group.
And yet another post:
I was on the phone the other day with VMware. I asked to be connected to a tech support guy in the US. They kept giving me the run around. Seem that VMware doesn’t have anyone int he US anymore.
Hey Trump where are the jobs? You said you would bring them back in the tech sector. We have been lied to again by a corrupt politician. It is time to bring back the tar and feathering of dirty politicians.
And yet another one:
I have to get this off my chest. Make a long story short. I was invited yesterday to a fortune 100 company for a hiring event. Who knows how many people they are going to hire. I heard so many different numbers not sure what to believe.
I get there, I am in a huge conference room with at least 30 other candidates. 25 of them are visa workers who have traveled to this location on their own dime from all corners of our nation interviewing for this job.
I will find out soon if I get the job. But none the less, this just isn’t right. If it wasn’t for these bastards, the job would have been mine.
This is a type of job that requires speaking the culture. How can these bastards be even invited to this event? I answer my own question 
🙂 because just about everyone that works there is a visa worker.
I mean come on. Somebody, please kick these parasites out!!!
And a follow up to the one above:
Got the offer this morning. Yippie… These dumb visa workers are no competition for me. They are just ugly retarded parasites. I read your comments you wanted a follow up.
Folks my advise to you. Avoid coding, programming, anything technical. Over 85% of visa workers are concentrated in coding or heavy technical jobs. They work insane hours at low wages. Even if you get the job, you won’t be able to live with it.
Better yet get out of IT altogether.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B visa group:
I’ve been employed continuously all my life, but it stopped cold roughly 2008. I was never unemployed longer than 2 weeks. Since that time my struggle to find employment and to stay employed has been met with “Gee, you’re really unemployable” or “its age discrimination, you’re getting old, you’re worth less”.
It may be my shortcomings but I see this denial of the impact of globalization and the H-1b as astonishing cruelty. Or a manifestation of ignorance.
Here is yet another post from the anti-H1B group:
File this under “I guess they just don’t want to hire people like me … they really, really don’t.” I’ve applied to hundreds of jobs, and after all of the ones where I was very qualified and heard nothing back, or got the various forms of “no longer under consideration” and “selected candidate who better fit our needs” … and several where sometime after I applied the “position was cancelled” … this is a new one. This time I got one that says that “the qualifications of this role have changed” and “your profile does not meet the new qualifications”. I’m guessing that’s not much different in practice from most of the ones where the “position was cancelled” (and a different one was opened, written to better exclude people like me) but I thought the wording was interesting because it’s a bit more explicit.
Here is a post from another anti-H1B group:
More good news (though still not enough)…update on John Miano’s fight against the OPT
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/22/feds-hid-white-collar-outsourcing-program-public-says-judge/
And here are some replies to said post:
YES!! This is tha shizz!!! I am actually working w 2 OPT grads that are on this program. this big tech company brings these fledgling graduates in to train them up to speed as engineers. They don’t know ANYTHING… Trust me– it’s a nursery up in here and I am contract w no benefits, zip.. zilch… making less than they are. I see them on their financial portfolios and scheduling Dr visits. I can’t afford Healthcare and yet am holding their hands watching them learn to walk. To be fair, there are American kids here too but they love to promote visa holders to lead teams while the push older Americans out. Believe me, these visa holders buy and promote the whole “highly skilled worker” myth. They walk around very confident that Americans just aren’t as smart or skilled as they are. Meanwhile, my 20 yr experience saves them alot of time and money. It’s pretty demeaning to work “for” engineer toddlers that are literally younger than my youngest daughter. I w’d not invest in this industry anymore at this stage. I w’d like to get out but I guess I’m stuck for now.
This lawsuit is a good start. Thks for sharing.
This lawsuit has been ongoing for 10 years. Trump and Sessions should have backed the DOJ off and let Miano win, THAT would have been MAGA…it boils my blood they are letting this continue. I was replaced by OPT, my entire small team was OPT after I was laid off. I can definitely sympathize with your opinion of this program…the government paying businesses to not hire Americans!
And another post from said group:
Posted on Twitter .
Derek J Compton
@DCDerek1
Feb 28
More
Informed today Indian recruiters w/Indian consultancies using my resume for contract bids as project manager and as SAP HCM consultant 4 contract bids/proposals and after they were awarded contract, would inform client I was unable join project, places Indian person on project.
And here are some replies to said post:
Yep, Infosys and Wipro have been doing this for years.
Bait and switch. The Indian guy must have been better qualified than you. (BS!)
I’m thinking you aren’t the only person this happened to the exception is you Caught this crime.
In 2017 I questioned a company about an email telling me to report my time. I didn’t work for that company and contacted them about it. I haven’t heard from them yet.
Yes very common practice it seems , When they have issues in developing solutions or doing some POC , they call for interview to find out some solutions too. I dont know where these will take america going forward
Here is another post from an anti-H1B visa group:
[credit to Perturbed Pundit]
While lobbying Congress for more H-1B visas, industry claims H-1B workers are the “best and brightest”. Come payday, however, they’re entry-level workers.
The GAO put out a report on the H-1B visa that discusses at some length the fact that the vast majority of H-1B workers are hired into entry-level positions. In fact, most are at “Level I”, which is officially defined by the Dept. of Labor as those who have a “basic understanding of duties and perform routine tasks requiring limited judgment”. Moreover, the GAO found that a mere 6% of H-1B workers are at “Level IV”, which is officially defined by the Dept. of Labor as those who are “fully competent” [1]. This belies the industry lobbyists’ claims that H-1B workers are hired because they’re experts that can’t be found among the U.S. workforce.
So this means one of two things: either employers are looking for entry-level workers (in which case, their rhetoric about needing “the best and brightest” is complete B.S.), or they’re looking for more experienced workers but only paying them at the Level I, entry-level pay scale. In my opinion, employers are using the H-1B visa to engage in legalized age discrimination, as the vast majority of H-1B workers are under the age of 35 [2], especially those at the Level I and Level II categories.
Any way you slice it, it amounts to H-1B visa abuse, all facilitated by and with the blessings of the US government.
The National Association of Colleges and Employers (NACE) has never shown a sharp upward trend of Computer Science graduate starting salaries, which would indicate a labor shortage (remember – the vast majority of H-1B visas are granted for computer-related positions). In fact, according to their survey for Fall 2015, starting salaries for CS grads went down by 4% from the prior year. This is particularly interesting in that salaries overall rose 5.2% [3][4].
References:
[1] GAO-11-26: H-1B VISA PROGRAM – Reforms Are Needed to Minimize the Risks and Costs of Current Program
[2] Characteristics of H-1B Specialty Occupation Workers Fiscal Year 2016 Annual Report to Congress October 1, 2015 – September 30, 2016
[3] NACE Fall 2015 Salary Survey
[4] NACE Salary Survey – September 2014 Executive Summary
Here is another post from the anti-H1B visa group:
Here is nice little memory I had while working at DELL in Austin, that I will empart for all of my fellow techies in commemoration of what a great country we live in this fine and beautiful Easter sunday. About 9 years ago while working at DELL computers in Austin, Texas I decided to go down to the company cafeteria on my lunch break which was located on the 1st floor of the building. When I got off the elevator I noticed that right there in front of the main doors of the front entrance to the building there was a large line of my fellow DELL employees lined up single file Indian (no pun intended here) style all the way to the back of the end of the hallway and then down around the corner. It must have been hundreds of my fellow DELL employees. They were all lined up single file and just about all of them were holding cardboard boxes (that were brought from the DELL shipping department) that were crammed full of their personal belongings.
Surrounding them were the company goons er…. uh DELL Security guards that were standing there watching them as the DELL employees each one at a time walked up to a little folding table where two HR people were sitting. There were three Austin police cars parked out front just in case there was any problems that got out of hand that the DELL security goons couldn’t deal with. As they approached the table these same DELL employees were being asked to sign on a sheet a paper and then were handed their final paycheck as they walked out the front doors of the DELL building never to be able to work there again. Meanwhile out back in the parking lot, hundreds of H1b visa foreign guest worker scabs (just about all of them from India or Mexico) were milling about waiting to come into the building to take their jobs.
I asked some of my fellow employees in the DELL cafeteria as to what was going on and some of them told me in very hushed tones of voices that the people being let go that day were the low-level Tech support people. Of course, I didn’t worry or think to much about it as those people were the lower level people, they were not senior software engineers like me and my fellow colleagues who worked on the fourth floor. I thought that something like that could never happen to me until about a year and half later when the company management at DELL eventually worked their way up to us as we received the same treatment that the lower level tech support people had received a year and half previous.
Nobody’s job is secure today even if you have a really good education and great skill sets. It doesn’t matter you are expendable too and don’t think that you aren’t!
Here is another post from the anti-H1B visa group:
I look everyday at job postings. It seems to me that the pay for IT jobs is decreasing while our cost of living is going up. For instance I saw a level 3 position only paying 65K or $35 an hour with no benefits.
When asking people in the anti-H1B visa group how these issues have affected them personally, I got the following replies:
Rejected approximately 5 or 6 separate times by HCL America that took over military non secret documentation projects at various defense contractors such as Harris and Parker Aerospace. These companies used to pay USA citizens $45 – $55 per hour to review software test documentations at their facilites but in the last few years now give those projects to HCL America that leases office space close to the defense contractors facilities and then imports H-1Bs with low qualifications and language issues to review those documents. When the projects are behind schedule because the H-1Bs can not review those documents start receiving floods of calls from recruiters mostly Indian to interview by phone and skype for the software documentation review jobs at those offsite facilities. Usually have no issue answering every technical question and accepting $19 per hour but always blocked and never hired. Internally at Parker and Harris the USA citizen software engineers would contact me directly and ask why not getting hired and the only reply is that is how HCL America works they do not want non Indians they would rather fail in their projects.
Adobe for one. Whoo the story I could tell you about that place. One viscious Indian manager ran around our floor writing down all the names of all the white programmers on a legal pad. Then 500 were laid off and replaced by Indians. 499 white people and 1 Chinese were laid off, all replaced by 100% Indians. I was called to come back to “work for one week only” to train my replacement, to which of course I flipped them the bird and walked. Training an H-1B is illegal now isn’t it – because they are supposed to already possess the skills that can be found in Americans. So why are we TRAINING them. Replacement in general is illegal since they are supposed to already have the skills claimed in order to legally enter the workforce. Adobe is all Indian now and the CEO is Indian. Most of the jobs were stolen and moved overseas.
Qualcomm laid off my husband when he was 61. Our lives have been in turmoil since. Depression, anxiety, betrayal and now rage. I understand an arsonist mind now!!! We keep praying for God to lead us out of California. The local companies have the large Indian population and with the Indian hiring managers he’s out of luck. Grateful for the warriors to our cause. Kudos to Sara Blackwell who continues to fight for us.
Qualcomm, L3, Cymer, General Atomics, Illumina
And here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
http://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/qualcomm-starting-layoffs-after-failed-broadcom-acquisition-2018-4-1021532216
And here are some replies to said post:
Qualcomm is H-1B Dependent; i.e., >15% of its US workforce is on an H-1B. Most people don’t realize this.
It has been lobbying heavily in DC for more H-1Bs. It underwrote a conference in DC with a reputable news organization to argue a that because there’s a desperate shortage of engineers Congress should increase the number of H-1Bs: http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-20150802-column.html
There is no worker shortage. The fact that people buy that disinformation underlined how gullible the average joe and Jane are…
Qualcomm is an un-American and unethical company! They continue laying off American workers and hiring H-1Bs. Their outrageous records of abuse and suicidal employees are well known in San Diego.
I bet to differ, it’s much much higher than 15% when you include those H1Bs hired as temp workers to replace the Full timers routinely laid off by Qcom.
We don’t know the exact percentage since neither the company nor the US government discloses it. We do know it is higher than 15%.
Here is another post from the anti-H1B visa group:
It is standard business practice for body shop companies registered as LLC in USA to collect US$5000 to US$8000 from the h-1b candidates to file for h-1b. This practice is illegal but hardly .1% (1 in 1000) companies get prosecuted for this. These LLC companies are setup by people who came to US on h-1b. There are over 5000 such companies which masquerade as small business’s (with an added tag of minority owned) whose sole business model is to abuse h-1b by bringing people on h-1b by making them pay for the h-1b application fee and once is US they are paid a salary only when this h-1b body shop company places them as contractor. When they are on bench they are not paid a salary, this is also illegal but the h-1b applicant does not report this because he is also part of the scam. Nobody is talking about these small body shops which on an average hold about 40 to 50 h-1b each, employing about 300 to 400k h-1b currently. These h-1b body shops are running under the radar because they are too small (less than 50 h-1b) but since there are over 5000 such companies, the total h-1b held by these body shops is over 300K. Only way to stop this abuse is to kill the h-1b contractor\body shop model. H-1b applicants should not be allowed to work as consultants(contractors), they should be allowed to only work as Full time employees to the company that applied for the h-1b visa, h-1b applicants should not be allowed to work as contractors at other customers (third party or second party customers) or in any other location other than the company address.Unless this abuse is ended no regulation will fix it.
This was shared in the anti-H1B visa group:
Anon please: I’ve been there for 8 years now. Was told in April that I am RA. Yesterday my task manager told me that he had been approached to help find my replacement in India. He was then told that I was to provide a handover (8 years experience and 6 years programming) – so I have 5 weeks in which to hand-over all of that to some Indian chap – well done IBM
And here are some replies to said post:
CSC [Computer Science Corporation] did this to friends of mine in 02. Train or they would fire you and challenge unemployment claim. I found a job and quit.
What you describe has been going on for a couple of decades. It’s very insulting. No one really cares if it gets done well or not has been my experience. Good luck.
DON’T do it. Is like you are sentenced to death and have to build up your scaffold. Better resign yourself, even if you don’t get any benefits.
Just proves that IBM management have no idea what you do. The whole premise of a handover of anything but simple process is simply laughable. Ha just realised they obviously think you follow a process
And here is a post from an anti-IBM tech worker abuse page:
Please post anon: RA’ed with last day of 7/18 with 90 days notice and 1 month severance. Been with IBM for 12 years. All PBC 1 and 2+ history, high band. Highest achievement results in the team. Manager many times said “you’re too old for this role” which is illegal. Team being replaced with all junior Indian US-visa folks.
And another post:
From Anon: Implementation of IBM Checkpoint has resulted in “Management by Accounting”. Yesterday, I was informed by my first line manager that he was forced to put me on a “Performance Improvement Plan” (otherwise known as a PIP.) I have 90 days to meet signing goals. Instead of investigating and addressing systemic process, tools, people, morale, strategy, execution and leadership issues… IBM is choosing to “force” 2Q results by either intimidating short sighted behavior, or by eliminating roles. I don’t see how this is good for our clients – or how it is good for IBM. For a long while I bought into the transformation, value and principles rhetoric. I was a wild duck to be treasured. But – with this insult to my personal brand under the guise that my “performance” needs improvement… when in reality, the objective is short sighted gain in a vacuum… I no longer believe this is the place to further invest in my career.
Here is a post from a Breitbart article:
I have a friend in Florida who worked IT for Disney. A few years ago he was telling me how little by little all his coworkers were laid off and the Indian kids we’re all taking those positions. It got to the point where it was him and two other regular American guys left. He lined up something else with a different company just as they approached him and told him he was required to do training. He basically gave them a resignation letter and the middle finger and said to train them yourself. He was fortunate he had something lined up and did not need that severance. But he also mentioned the hardship that his fellow coworkers faced after being laid off. My grandkids are going to have to request Six Flags instead of Disney if they want me to take them somewhere. I refuse to financially feed that machine.
And another post:
It happened in IT industry. ALL OF LARGE BANKS did it. They hired cheap programmers from India and China and made local high-paid guys to train them. That’s why a lot of our guys became unemployed and agree to be hired for much lesser lever of salary.
The problem is that there are not a law to prevent. The classic Republicans and Democrats did not see (or were lobbied not see it???) this situation.
I have idea what to do now after 20 yrs it happend
And another one:
Both my kids recently graduated from college. The ratio of American born graduates to foreign born graduates was 1:3 or 1:4 in the disciplines of engineering and most crucially IT security and encryption, especially for Master’s and PHD degrees.
Two young women in hijabs refused to shake the University President’s hand or receive the diploma from him. Two young men flew the green flag of the shahada from kingdom of SA. The announcer read so many Chinese names from the college of engineering that he continually faltered on traditional American/European names.
It was a real eye opener.
And another one:
Colleges and Universities except them, to the detriment of US students because of the “retail price” of tuition they will pay the university. US students pay reduced tuition. WE pay tax dollars to state schools. Hold them accountable.
And another one:
How about all those news stories of higher education teachers, assistant profs, who proselytize anti-constitutional worldviews and practice classroom and grade intimidation on any student who dares to question that worldview?
Or all the catholic universities that are taking down crosses, opening alternative prayer rooms and abandoning their founding principles. It’s all about the money.
In this term or in the last term, I think there was one Congressional member who did ask for an investigation into the massive amounts of tax free endowments of American colleges and Universities.
It’s time to follow the foreign money that is building anti-constitutional or sharia compliant schools among our seats of higher learning.
And, it is time to disclose how many schools, at any level, harbor and encourage a known terrorist organization called Muslim Students of America while discouraging Young Republican groups.
And yet another post:
Less than 50% of U.S. graduates with a STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) degree get a job in the STEM field. It’s less than that for IT. The majority of graduates asked why they don’t have an IT job responded “lack of job opportunities”.
Wages for IT have been flat for 18 years!
So there is no shortage of STEM talent in the USA. Our universities are pumping them out at a healthy rate.
The fact that wages are flat shows you there is no shortage.
And yet another post:
I’m a tax professional. Our jobs are also being outsourced to India. Is this why we are having our identities stolen through the IRS? Unintended consequences. In this case, the replacement of the middle aged middle class with young foreigners who work cheap was the intention. H1-B, et al need to go. We have had too many immigrants -legal and illegal for 30 years. We really need a break, here.
And yet another post:
The H1B visa program is an absolute joke. The vast majority do not have special skills – they are just willing to work for less than what a company can pay an American worker. My own company is doing this – replacing existing American employees with incompetent H1B visa holders. I am actively looking for a new job and am not in a position to just quit. But if my team is next, if they bring in that H1B visa holder and tell me to train them, I have already decided I will walk. I will find a way to make it work. If Washington does not end this fraudulent program, they will find themselves voted out by all the angry, displaced workers – and the customers that are tired of contacting a company only to be confronted with someone from India who can not speak the language and provides inferior service.
And yet another post:
Let me tell you how it worked for programmers in a big 10 bank.
The bank made them document everything they knew about the system they supported. When a change needed to be made or a problem needed to be fixed, the replacement was at the keyboard. The American was to direct the replacement, who wrote down every word and keyed what they were told.
If change did not work or problem was not fixed the American caught hell and was told to instruct the replacement or leave without their severance.
The Americans with families to support and/or with debts complied. Then were laid off when the replacement was trained.
Replacement got a free college class and tutoring from the American still trying to collect another paycheck to pay off their student loans. Sick and sad.
And yet another post:
H1B have taken over INTEL here in Arizona. They even have Cricket field on campus
And another post:
Citi Bank is also selling out American workers to India and firing Whites and Hispanics. It’s called Toxic Femininity.
Boycott Citibank Corporate terrorism !
And yet another post:
I’m in IT and here is the pattern I’ve seen for decades now.
Management works on the “yo yo” system. Meaning, a company will hire some VP with a golden resume, who will come in and scatter shot “new policy” like he was the last man standing at Iwo Jima. Usually that policy involves “cost reduction and resource consolidation” aka “Hey, IT is costing us money, so….”. This is the first “Yo”.
He will gather with his accounting department and see that Ravi Patel only charges 1/3 of what Bob Smith charges, and everybody in the meeting will scratch their chins and say “Weeeelllll, I see where we can save some money!”
They start hiring an army of Ravi Patels, who they place in coding and management positions. The Patels then will only hire other Patels. Meanwhile, Bob Smith gets less and less work as it’s offloaded to “the team, to make things more efficient”. Eventually Bob Smith is called in one day and told “Hey, dude, sorry, your services are no longer required” and is offered severance but ONLY if he trains a snaggle toothed invader first.
MEANWHILE, the coding in the shop has become a nightmare. Hindudes sit around trying to reinvent every single IT “wheel” in the known universe and spin their wheels doing nothing of value. Endless meetings are held where “customers” in the company try to get plain English requirements through to the Army O’ Patels, to no avail. Quality goes to pot, everybody knows why, nobody is brave enough to say anything.
ALSO MEANWHILE, Fred VP GoldenResume pads his resume with “Look at the money I saved this company!” and bails to another higher paying job in a larger corporation. He’s suffered not a whit for his bad decision making that devastated his current employer and has no inkling of how his incompetence is killing companies. He goes to bed at night happy and sleeps with little angels hovering over his head. This is the second “Yo”.
Bob Smith either manages to get another IT job, which is harder and harder thanks to low paid, incompetent Hindudes taking over every IT shop, or he simply fades away hoping that he has enough savings to pay his debt and bills for the next three months before he goes broke.
And the cycle repeats, ad nauseum.
And another one:
White, male and 58 in IT. How I have lasted this long could be a mystery. My wife and I are savers so I am training myself for a twilight career now. In other words losing my job would have minimal impact now for me. I have always said that I will never train my replacement. Ever. My wife knows it to. If it comes to that I walk. These younger people with families cannot have this same attitude. I really feel bad for them and I actually discourage people from STEM careers now. Not the place to be as you WILL be replaced. Honestly, the Disney replacements are probably not doing a very good job, but nobody cares. Nobody cares if project timelines are doubled. Nobody cares if the software quality is poor. I have seen this before. “We got them cheap” is all they care about. Bonuses for the top. Done deal…
And yet another post:
I work in IT and starting about 12 years ago it started in my company as well. The American to East Indians is now at 1.1 so I am watching it daily. I work for State Government and it isn’t just occurring in my IT shop it is also occurring in the Court System, L&I, Department of Health and IT Infrastructure.
And another one:
I work in Washington State and it doesn’t get much more liberal. I started seeing this practice about 12 years ago. Contracted American IT personnel are being systematically replaced by East Indian IT. My office in now a 1 to 1 ration of East Indian and some Middle East IT working for much less. The only reason I have not been replaced in because of the Union.
Here is a post from the anti-H1B visa group:
Torchmark Corporation is laying off entire department and asking their employees to train H1bs
(Headquartered in McKinney, TX, just 30 miles north of Dallas)
I have asked my friend to contact Brightfuturejobs.com
Any other suggestions?
And yet another post:
Another H1b abuser
And another post:
Did some digging on this. Primary contractor is Leidos Partnership for Defense Health. Their partners include Accenture, HP Enterprise, and others who hire non-immigrant visa workers. No wonder DoD’s EHR system is FUBAR.
https://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/computing/software/how-much-trouble-is-the-new-us-defense-department-electronic-health-records-program-in?utm_source=computingtechnology&utm_campaign=computingtechnology-05-29-18&utm_medium=email
Here is a post from Quora:
I am an American, originally from India, and who once was on H-1B visa. I have interviewed hundreds of H-1B visa consultants in the last 20 years, and have hired plenty of them. So, I think, I am qualified to answer your questions.
Let me be as objective as possible and brutally honest, as well. U.S. is a country of laws and is dead serious about law and order, and fairness. US is one of the fairest countries in the world, besides UK.
If an H-1B consultant abuses the legal system and is in the U.S. based on fake experience, and is hired unfairly, even when Americans are available, he or she should lose his H-1B privilege and must be deported. Wouldn’t you agree? The Trump administration is keen on following the law and order and being fair, when it comes to foreigners in the U.S.
What I have seen in the past ten to fifteen years is, rampant abuse of H-1B visas by Indian consultants, Indian IT body shops and unfortunately, major U.S. organizations too. I have seen Indian managers hiring H-1B consultants, when qualified American citizens and Green Card holders are available, even for Business Analyst and Project Management jobs. BA and PM jobs do not require technical skills. Trust me, Americans are much better than Indians, generally speaking, when it comes to management and analysis. Then why do Indian managers hire Indians? It’s ILLEGAL to hire H-1Bs when citizens and permanent residents are available. But, the abuse continues. Where? Mostly in California, Greater Dallas area, Charlotte, NC, New Jersey, to name a few places. My wife is an American, Agile certified and has real US experience as a true-blue Business Analyst. Yet, no Indian IT agency or an Indian Manager is willing to hire her. Why? She is an American. If the manager instead hires from an Indian agency, he/she can make money under the table. I see it at my work. My brother has an IT agency. He tells me how they bribe. The attitude is, let’s squeeze America, screw Americans! I am not lying.
Check this YouTube link to know more about these companies. There are hundreds of such IT body shops in California, New Jersey and Texas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gq_yUzeE-1E
To answer your question, “What did we do to America?” Well, you abused the system. Rampantly. Not you personally, so don’t get me wrong. I can make an educated guess and say, 80% of H-1Bs are unqualified. They are mostly from one region in India called Andhra. Does it ring a bell? The other 20% are absolute gems. USA needs them and these 20% H-1Bs need USA. I will support them whole-heartedly. These gems are mostly hired by FANG companies. If you are a gem, then you don’t have to worry about your future in this great nation. Trump Administration will protect you. President Trump is not an idiot as portrayed in the media. He knows what he is doing. He is protecting Americans, and trying to retain the truly high-tech students and consultants. And, rightfully so.
Btw, I just found out, Cognizant hires H-1Bs for sales jobs. Why? Isn’t that an abuse of the H-1B visa? Do you think it’s right? If you think, it’s right, then you don’t deserve to be in the U.S.
I have also seen H-1Bs delivering boxes for Amazon, in my neighborhood. That’s an abuse. Uber drivers here in California are H-1Bs. That’s illegal and abuse of the system. All Trump is trying to do is, making sure the laws are not broken. IN AMERICA, AMERICANS COME FIRST!
It’s good to know you love America. America is one of the most coveted countries in the world for residency. And American Green Card is the most coveted document in the world. God Bless America!
And here are some replies to said post:
It’s the visa lottery system that this administration opposes and the abusers are primarily Indian outsourcers. As others have said, the H1B visa program is temporary. The visa is good for 3 years and can be extended for another 3 years if approved. Therefore, the arrangement was NEVER permanent and I expect you knew this before asking the question in such a politically biased manner. An H1B Visa holder may seek a green card and begin the process of naturalization.
India has a very similar and likewise temporary visa program for foreign workers. Like the U.S. law, employers in India must prove there are no qualified Indian nationals for the job before a work visa is issued. The Indian government vigorously enforces this provision while the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services has been lax in enforcement which has harmed American job seekers.
Back to the lottery system and the Indian outsourcers. In 2014, 13 outsourcing firms, including seven from India, accounted for nearly a third of the 85,000 H-1B visas that were approved through the corrupt visa lottery system. Of the major Indian firms, Tata Consulting Services obtained 5,650, Infosys 3,454, Wipro 3,048, U.S.-based Cognizant Tech Solutions obtained 4,293 visas, and Ireland-based Accenture got 2,275. Data shows those visa recipients acquired through the outsourcing firms that gobbled up so many H1B visas were paid far less than their American counterparts for the same job. The corrupt visa lottery system allows American workers to be displaced by foreign nationals. Surely you can understand how this infuriates American workers.
See Infoworld’s “The fix is in: Proof that H-1B visa abuse is rampant”
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Why US wants to kick us out?
Guys, we are getting carried away with a false sense of entitlement. Just see what an average Indian H1B is doing. If they work for these desi service shops like TCS, Infosys etc, they are “coordinating” i.e they are a glorified postman. Most of them are doing prod support and other menial jobs like QA. I do agree that there are people working on advanced technology for large firms. But their numbers are almost neglible in the whole scheme of things
Is this why US government articulated H1B visa? No. It is meant for “speciality occupation”. If you just apply this requirement, most H1Bs will fail to meet the standard of “speciality”. No wonder US govt wants to fix this large scale abuse. In my opinion rightly so.
What did we do to America?
Guys, we all agree that we drove down the wages for lot of Americans out there. Due to lack of reform, the wage rates for H1B is still stuck at 1980s amounts. The desi sweat shops are cashing in on this loophole bigly. The starting salary for a Software engineer per official LCA is around 56k. If one is prepared to work for such low wage(without benefits, mind you) why would the company want to hire Americans who expect the previaling market salary?
Also we are responsible for large scale layoffs because our desi companies have managed to convince large American corporations that they will save a ton by moving jobs offshore and depute couple of guys onsite to “coordinate”. It is true, but at what cost? American STEM graduates are the collateral damage. If an American college kid finds it hard to compete with the hoardes of Indians working for peanuts, why would he/she take up STEM study?
Do we love America?
Do we really love America or do we love the material comforts that America has offered us that India did not. Turn on the tap, water comes out. You can even select hot or cold. Wow, This never happens in India. The list is endless. Roads, electricity, courteous people, cleanliness, privacy.
If we really loved America, we would volunteer in our communities. Get involved in charitable activities. Go help out in the local soup kitchens, mentor the abused kids, take in a foster child. I dont see us doing these kind of things. Let us not kid ourselves please!
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The US government does not want to “kick Indians out.” The issue of H1-B visas is indirectly linked to Indians in the US only so far as that Indians represent a sizeable chunk of the H1-B pool, but that’s it.
The issue of curbing H1-B visa numbers is related to the belief that they (the visas) are used (abused) by tech companies to suppress salaries as opposed to what would actually reflect market forces.
I personally am ambivalent about H1-B visas. On the one hand, I agree that the top talent in the world ought to be available. If there *really* is a shortage of engineering and other STEM skills, then of course, Google, Microsoft, Apple, and other companies ought to be able to recruit workers with the skills, even if they are in India, China, the UK. Wherever.
On the other hand, I know more than one person who is on an H1-B visa, and my experience over the past 20 years or so is that they are exploitative and need to be changed.
The H1-B programme needs to be reformed, not done away with.
- If someone gets an H1-B visa, it ought to belong to him, not to the company sponsoring it. The talent lies with the worker. Hence, once a person holds the H1-B, if a different company wants to recruit him, then he takes the visa with him. Period. As it is now, if you have an H1-B, and you work for Apple, and Google want to recruit you, sorry. You belong to Apple.
That’s wrong, and it needs to go.
- People with H1-B visas should have ALL the same rights in this country as anyone with a green card. I personally think that “guest workers” programmes pretty flagrantly violate basic decency and equality.
- Companies sponsoring H1-B visas should be required to pay a salary not equal to the “market rate,” but instead, at a significant premium. If the “market rate” salary for an engineer is $100,000, then the H1-B worker should be required to be given $150,000, or $200,000. THAT is how supply and demand works – if the skill is not available, then it is worth MORE than the alleged “market” rate. When Uber wants to get more cars on the road, they charge “surge” prices.
If there really is a shortage of talent, then the prices should reflect that. Companies should not be able to get access to “unobtanium” at the same price that they can get lead or copper. And yes – they (the companies) should have to pay all of the fees as well.
If we put these changes in place, I think H1-B visas are just fine.
I would suspect that the tech lobbyists would not really be on board with them, but I could be wrong.
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US government doesn’t want to kick Indians out. That would be racist and unconstitutional decision and US courts would stop it immediately. As it was with Trump’s travel ban. But the question itself “Why does the US government want to kick Indians out?” means that in India H-1B visa considered to be own by India only. That tells a lot about such visa abuse scale. Who, how and to which extent are different question but the matter of fact that H1-B visa considers to be associated with the rights of Indian citizens to work in US. What the hell? I don’t think the whole blame is on India. The scale of such abuse would not happened without previous governments involvement- Bush and Obama should share the blame. And remember that such abuse been hurting not only American engineers and scientists but STEM workers from other then India countries who wanted to work in US. The basic principle of American economy – competition- been abused.
It is another important aspect of such abuse. It creates environment where STEM education in India and for some extent in China flourish and in US goes on decline. It is simple and obvious. And it is done by American government. Suicide. I don’t think Trump himself understands( otherwise I can reference his tweet) it but GOP government definitely understand the danger for American global security in technology and act accordingly.
I don’t blame much regular Indian engineers – they trying to make their American dream and using all legal means in order to achieve it. As all of us do. The blame on those politicians and CEOs who created such environment – both on American and Indian sides. And American side now trying to put blame on India only. Political business as usual
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Before replying here, let me tell about myself. I have 18 years in IT exp. Out of which I have 16 years in India and mostly with a Fortune 50 MNC in India through which I migrated to US. I started my career as campus recruit with Wipro. Now if you know India you must know that there are two type of IT companies in India one is called service companies like TCS, Wipro, Infosys, HCL etc. And other one is called product companies like Google, Intel, Texas Ins. Phillips, Qualcomm etc.
Salary ranges in service companies is ~30% lower than product companies. Still people stick to service companies to get one chance to have H1B and come to US or EU/Japan. Its this onsite stint where they make more of savings and once they come back they switch to product companies. So the saving from onsite stint creates backbone of their saving or is used for down payment of an expensive flat in Bangalore. Nothing wrong in it. Its all about choice people make.
Despite all rumors service companies are not the ones which are abusing the system. A person is given opportunity to come to US as a reward for his good performance. He is given this chance to come “onsite” for 1–2 years. And companies would like to rotate this to offer this chance to every good performer. So far so good. Nothing bad about it.
But once he lands in US he starts loving US and now wants to stay here forever! So he gets to know that there are so called body shoppers available which tells themselves IT consultants and transfer his visa to these visa abusers! Now who are these abusers in first place? These are the byproduct of chain migration. Few residents sponsors their brothers and sisters who have no idea of IT and start an IT consultancy and does this dirty business. They are the temporary parking lots for these people who await jobs with american companies. And I feel this middle-men are basically responsible for visa abuse.
Now these middle men become so daring that they start sponsoring H1B by TAKING MONEY !!! In a glaring day light abuse of the system they TAKE MONEY TO DO THIS!! And for last 16 years I have been asked by my many friends to give money to these and come to US but I never bowed. For me law of land (no matter which land) must be followed !! So I waited patiently till I got a legitimate and perfectly legal relocation on a proper visa by my employer on 180K salary including all benefits!
Do I love US ? YES.
Will I like to stay in US? YES
Will I circumvent rules / do tricks to stay here? NO
Donald Trump (or any other president of a sovereign nation) is perfectly right here to safeguard the rights of its own citizens. In fact back home we want NaMo to do the same so what is this hypocrisy about abusing DT?
I am sure you must have got the answer by now that US is too big to hate any individual / country. Its a country which frames rules to benefit its country men in specific and at same time try to be fair as much as possible.
So play by rules and be content wherever you are!!
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Consultancies if not for these, this problem wouldn’t be there.
Honestly speaking most of the Indians who get a Masters Degree from an average university in U.S.A don’t have the core knowledge about their field. During their college days they spend time mostly working on part time jobs (which are illegal btw), but can be understood as to why they do that as their living expenses on average would range from 300–500USD per month which is very hard to be sent by parents from India.
Now coming to job scenario people join consultancy to get their STEM extension (OPT) , consultancies will claim that a student is working for them when they are actually not. Now the consultancies promote the profile of the students who join them by showing “FAKE EXPERIENCE” in the profile it is not just 1 or 2 but at-least 5 years of fake experience is shown. The phone interview is done by the person set up by consultancy. After joining the job consultancy will take a certain amount of salary (20–30%) keeps varying. This is the scenario until job during OPT. During job the tasks which cannot do due to lack of knowledge and experience they secretly outsource it to someone in India. I can safely guess these category students are around (50–60%)
Now after the OPT is completed and while waiting for HI-B people again enrol in “Online Courses” which again provides work permission. In H1-B lottery consultancies will apply even twice for the same person to increase chances.
Now about the rest 40% of the students who study in good colleges they actually utilise their time for education utilising the best of professors and infrastructure and the research opportunities which is U.S.A famous for. These people get internships and later jobs on their own without joining any consultancy or faking their experience.
Now after all these things would you ask the same question again considering you are not one of those candidates trying to get a job with fake experience which you are unworthy of? It’s high time you develop your skills and get a job on your own.
If not for consultancy how many Indians would have been in USA after completing their masters as they couldn’t get a job to apply for OPT extension within 60 days? Would this problem with H1-B be present? Not only Americans but this affects Indians too who actually have good skills and are interested in making use of the American education system.
Be Honest mate just venting out emotions won’t make your problem genuine. Before blaming Trump or the American system just at look the system your fellow people have developed.
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The H1B visa system has morphed from a strictly controlled method of letting people with specific and hard to find skills into the US, into a free-for-all method of getting cheap skilled labor. If it was used as intended, it would help the economy, but as it is currently abused, it merely helps some at the expense of others. Democrats decry wealth inequality and want more wealth redistribution, but the PRIMARY means of wealth redistribution is wages, when they go down or stay stagnant, wealth inequality grows.
There are lots of opinions as to if a free-for-all immigration system would in effect help the economy and therefore indirectly help with wages and job growth. Without direct proof, all of these opinions are mere speculation, as such, I’ll give mine:
- That there is a shortage of basic skilled workers (programmers, engineers, scientists, etc) is total fiction. Labor participation rate, while improving lately, is still very low, indicating the real unemployment rate is still VERY high. Prime age males, those that comprise the majority of tech workers, are still lacking full time employment at an incredible rate (see below). There are literally millions of skilled workers that are sitting on their hands, I hear from them on a daily basis, many are losing their homes as we speak. Many are being passed over for jobs because of competition from H1Bs.
- Flooding the US job market with every skilled/unskilled worker from poor countries will lower wages and raise unemployment.
But why is all of that not OK? To an American, this may seem obvious, but to a foreigner, let me spell it out. We have a great country, a country we had to fight and die to originate and to maintain. As a result, we have the strongest economy in the world, because people here are free: free to think, free to work, free to make money, etc. Who should be the beneficiaries of that great sacrifice? Foreigners, who may/may not share American values (ie freedom)? Foreigners who have not sacrificed for the USA? Foreigners who neither themselves nor their parents have paid a dime of US taxes, but rather are loyal to another power?
There are so many down sides to flooding the US with workers, I don’t have time to explain them all. Security is a big one. Dilution of the fundamental American values that created this country is another. But if you look at why people want to come here, you can see yet another angle to this story. People come to the USA from poor nations to get away from their home nation because their home nation is…awful. It is awful due to the corruption of its leaders primarily, but also because its people accepted the situation without a fight (unlike the US). So, by opening the flood gates, the USA is basically footing the bill of all of the disasters of the world created by the world’s despots. And who, specifically, is being shouldered with paying for it? US workers. Through lowered wages, hard working Americans would be unwittingly shouldering the burden of all of the world’s poverty and corruption. Is that fair? Why can’t these foreigners do more to resist and change their home country from within? Because they want an easier out, and they have one with the US immigration system.
If the US were to shut down all immigration, what you would see is people in their home countries rising up, the thought leaders who get a terrific education, rather than seeking to migrate somewhere to make money, they would use that big brain of theirs to effect change in their home nation. Foreigners love to laud the benefits to the US economy of receiving the world’s best and brightest, and maybe there is some indirect benefit of that, but what about the brain drain happening in the countries they left behind? How is THAT indirectly effecting the world and the US economy? A brain drained population is much easier to control, to manipulate, so you end up with more and worse failed states. By opening the flood gates of workers to the US, in my view you merely shovel the responsibility to care for the victims of those failed states onto American workers and make it basically impossible for those left behind to do anything about it.
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US is a sovereign country and has the right to control its borders and immigration to suit its needs. And it is exercising its right, albeit you may argue for not all the right reasons (some are politically motivated and some are justified).
H-1 b has been abused and needs to be fixed. (We can argue about this for a long time.) But the proposed solutions have all been very simplistic.
Yes, some of the immigrants have been very valuable (some CEOs and some startup creators), some are still very valuable in software, healthcare and STEM fields. BUT apparently, quite a few junior and middle levels software workers are cheap labor & here because of market forces and some unscrupulous firms. And this has been the bone of contention for a long time for all the H-1b detractors and supporters. The headlines about firms using H-1b’s to replace local workers doesn’t help the narrative that H1b’s are here to be complement American workforce (although they just make up 1% of american workforce).
We are at a point where the system seems likely to be reviewed and possibly overhauled. I understand that there is some human cost to the changes that have been proposed to the visa system, including displacement of families and the impact of it on children. It’s a sad reality some of us will have to face. It will also result in a correction in the market expectations and popular beliefs about availability of American labour to replace all the foreign workers.
All i can say to any Americans reading this is urge your senators and congress to fix the H-1B mess , but please do consider the human cost to it. Temporary work visa is just that – Temporary, agreed. But don’t dangle a Green Card in front of a temp worker to retain talent/ cheap labor. Set the expectations right for foreign workers. Have realistic expectations about the outcomes of the proposed overhaul.
Look at the real culprits here. No H-1b worker wants to replace American workers and cause grief and trouble to fellow human beings. It was and will always be the GREEDY corporations. It’s easy to blame the next guy because they are readily visible. Hard to find that CEO who replaced you, and give him a piece of your mind.
And to SOME of my fellow Indians, i say stop pleading for visa status. And start being more self respecting. I understand that the prospect of returning to the homeland is daunting and sometimes scary. But pleading is shameful and detracts from the HARD WORK and endless years of wait we have all put in so far to further American interests and our own personal lives. Put forth your arguments in a respectable manner and bravely face the outcome.
Some of us are actively pursuing means to contact senators and lawmakers to help sort out an amicable solution to this. There are many forums on Facebook promoting our contributions to US and the positive impact of immigrants. So please help them if you want to, but stop posting ridiculous questions and make us look like untalented cheap labor. That we are not. Please. Thank you.
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I used to own an IT consulting company. We recruited developers from India, Philippines, and Korea (South for clarity.) It was the easiest to bring folks from India on H1B visa compared to other countries. Koreans were very good but did not speak good English or no English at all. Philippines government puts their IT pool in the same category as the unskilled labor which goes to Middle East countries, and get taken advantage. We as employer had to sign some contract with the Philippines government that if the employee dies while under our employment abroad (America in this case,) we had to make sure that his/her body reaches Philippines at our expense. Needless to say, we stuck mostly with Indian IT pool. Occasionally one or two were exceptional. Some were good. Most of them were mediocre to bad. We could not keep the good ones. As my company’s immigration lawyer once told me once, “the slavery is over.” The good ones came with premeditated intention to jump ship in a short time, and that they did. There was nothing we could do to retain them. David mentioned this as point#1 in his narrative. I agree this has to go.
I, originally from India, a naturalized citizen of the U.S.A. came through the same system in 1985. The only difference is that during that time most of us had four years college degrees in Engineering. H1B existed but was not given by the U.S. embassies. Most of us came here on B1, business visa, and then converted to H1B after coming here. My friends and I are directly responsible in making Indian billionaires like Raj Vattikutti of COVANSIS and Bharat Desai of Syntel. These folks took full advantage of their cheap labor force and enriched themselves. I realized very early on, that U.S.A. was not short of talented folks. We as H1B immigrants filled the need to move from east coast to west coast at 24 hours notice at cheaper rate than anybody could offer, where a well settled and qualified U.S. citizen had constraints to do the same.
A friend of mine, who is Indian, asked my opinion about a book he was writing about, Indian software excellence. When I told him, it was an oxymoron, he thought I was joking. IT field dominated by the Indians is mostly about cheap labor, and very little about the real talent. If you ever have issues about websites not being functional and you are given run around. Be assured, it’s TCS and Infosys, or simply cheap H1B folks running the show behind the scene. TD Ameritrade, my trading company, cannot explain for the past two years as to why their Website and Mobile platforms show one security’s daily profit/loss being remarkably different within a matter of seconds. It has an extra ordinary amount of Indians in the IT department. Recall the infamous calculator bug on your iPhone (iOS 11 Bug: Typing 1+2+3 Quickly in the Calculator App Won’t Get You 6). Why did it take Apple so long to fix it? I can tell you horror stories about Microsoft Sharepoint Support managed from Bangalore, where I knew the fix to the bug I was reporting, but it would take Microsoft a release to fix it. Have you ever used any Indian website? Just pick anyone, they are horrible in user experience.
Sorry, I digress. The point is DJT has no specific hatred towards Indians. However, Indians have not fulfilled their end of the bargain by shortchanging the U.S. by average to incompetent labor force. This has to stop. There is no free money, not any more!
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Read the book: SOLD OUT! by Michelle Malkin – the answers are there.
Sold Out: How High-Tech Billionaires & Bipartisan Beltway Crapweasels Are Screwing America’s Best & Brightest Workers: Michelle Malkin, John Miano: 9781501115950: Amazon.com: Books
The latest wrinkle is that workers are coming from Hyderabad on training visas, couched to say they will not work, then when in the U.S. they are sent out to run cash registers or other menial labor as contract workers. And they are not paid by their handler as they are not working, they are being trained. They get food and board. They are basically indentured servants. Even minimum wage workers can’t compete with that.
Here is a shocking statistic: What percentage of those making minimum wage have college degrees? I was SHOCKED:
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patriotmongoose 
I know out of work developers – all’s you have to do is look at the work force over 50. Most employers won’t interview them regardless of their skills or how much they need workers. I know a large number of developers who left the field over the last 10-20 years because they couldn’t find work in the field because of outsourcing and age discrimination. I personally have recommended that bright young people NOT go into IT or software development because of outsourcing and age discrimination in the past, including my own son. Who would tell a kid they care about to go into a field that they cannot continue in after they are 40? Yes, they can become managers, but not everyone will want to and not everyone will be able to. I tell them to go into law or the medical professions where people with gray hair are viewed as having wisdom and experience and valued for it!
While we’re on the subject, if employers wrote job descriptions that valued basic engineering and programming skills and experience more than the current buzzword du jour, they would be able to find plenty of people who are “qualified”. You can turn a good C# developer into a java or javascript developer in a matter of weeks, but employers won’t hire one without years of experience in SPECIFIC FRAMEWORKS – not even the entire language – listed recently on their resumes. In fact they can’t hire one – keyword searches on resumes eliminate the resume before an employer would ever see it. Boot camps and certifications aren’t enough, especially if you are over a “certain age”.