- Calling something free doesn’t make it free. Nothing in life is free. It’s simply a matter of who pays the costs.
- If a college education has value, why give it away?
- If college becomes free for students, colleges will attract more young people who are not suited for college and more students will major in fields with little or no market value.
Anyone watching the higher education landscape these days can’t help but note the proliferation of articles calling for free tuition. President Obama’s January 2015 proposal to make the first two years of community college free spawned much of this discussion. While the proposal stalled, it did help to ignite a nationwide discussion.
Last month, The Chronicle of Higher Education ran “Nobody Should Have to Pay to Go to College,” by Kenneth W. Warren and Samir Sonti. Earlier this month, The New York Times ran an opinion piece by Stephanie Saul that advocated free tuition at Harvard to help fuel diversity. Political candidates are also entering the discussion. Democratic presidential candidates Sen. Bernie Sanders and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton have offered proposals for free college and debt-free college respectively.
So what are we to make of these proposals? Advocates claim the United States is simply not educating enough students to maintain our economy and standard of living. These advocates claim college costs and crushing student debt are leading to a shortage of skilled, educated talent, jeopardizing our economic future and making us unable to compete in a global marketplace. We need to make it easier for students to access a college education – or so the argument goes.
If you’re a young person, a college student or the parent of a soon-to-be college student, free tuition might sound like a great idea. The prominence of these proposals certainly warrants a closer look.
For starters, we should examine the assumptions underlying this proposal. Some elements of the current discussion defy logic. If something is valuable, shouldn’t we be willing to pay for it? So how can we say it has value, yet seek to give it away?
And what about the notion the United States does not have enough educated and skilled people to fill all the positions of the new economy? Some workforce analysts assert that by 2020 two in three jobs will require some higher education to perform. The solution, we’re told, is to get more people into school and produce more college graduates.
That makes sense to some, but I’d ask: Is more higher education the only way to get an educated and skilled workforce? Of course, if you’re talking about some jobs, that may be the answer. However, we also have labor shortages in fields such as computing, the skilled trades, auto mechanics and health care. Many jobs in these fields pay well, but don’t require a four-year degree.
Is there a shortage or merely a maldistribution of students? The sad fact is that for every student in business, engineering or a pre-professional program, there are others in less marketable areas such as art history, psychology and history majors. That’s nothing against those fields or those who choose to study in them. But we need to ask: Will our nation be better if we keep generating graduates who have difficulty finding gainful employment?
Our society values a college degree – maybe too much. Over the last two decades, we’ve funneled too many young people toward a four-year degree, when the truth is that many probably would have done better elsewhere.
College, unfortunately, has become a proxy for talent. However, the reality is a college education doesn’t always translate into social or economic mobility. We tend to overlook the other paths to success, such as starting your own business or becoming an apprentice. We tend to overlook the thousands of individuals who through their own ingenuity, resourcefulness and determination achieved the American dream without ever going to college.
Moreover, newer statistics undercut the idea college is a sure pathway to a good-paying job and prosperity. According to the Economic Policy Institute, wages for university grads are 2.5 percent lower in 2015 than they were in 2000. The research found that the real (inflation-adjusted) hourly wages of recent college grads in 2015 was $17.94 or just over $37,000 a year. In 2000, the average hourly rate was $18.41.
A free tuition proposal would make more sense if there was a great demand for certain fields and college access was a significant problem. But it’s not. If you look at the data, the bigger problem is that many students don’t finish college. Only about 55 percent of students graduate six years after starting.[2] The problem is not access but completion. Why do people drop out of college? For the most part, money is not the problem. It’s usually factors like family issues, or transportation.
The Obama program is targeted at community college students, a population where only 21 percent of students earn an associate’s degree within three years and only one in five earn an associate’s degree and go on to earn a bachelor’s degree within six years.
The upshot: Providing free tuition to institutions that graduate a little over 50 percent of their students does not make economic sense. It would likely attract more students that are ill-suited for the college environment who will end up dropping out anyway.
We will likely continue to argue about the value of a college degree. Even if we agree on all questions, any plan to make college tuition free faces significant practical challenges.
Again, let’s talk about the president’s proposal. The cost of the Obama proposal is approximately $6 billion a year – which seems a bit like a low-ball estimate, but that’s another discussion. Seventy-five percent of costs would be borne by the federal government; the states would pay the remainder, about $1.5 billion. You can be sure those costs would only grow. Where states would find the money is a good question.
With a budget deficit of $742 billion and $18 trillion in national debt, Americans should ask: Can we really afford to pay for another program that would in all likelihood quickly become another entitlement? Currently the United States provides billions in student need-based financial aid to eligible low- and middle-income students. The administration’s free college proposal would not only reduce the costs of education for many who already qualify for a free or lower-cost education, it would also provide free education for students whose families have the means to pay for part or all of a college education.
In part, working-class families will be forced to subsidize college degrees for rich kids.
There is more than one way to position America to be able to compete in a global economy. We must realize many of the problems we seek to redress in higher education are rooted in K-12 education. Substantive school reform and expanding school choice are two proven and less expensive efforts to address these concerns and improve the pool of quality graduates. States might improve this pool by rewarding programs that work. We could also incentivize corporations, such as CVS and UPS, that offer generous higher education benefits to employees of companies.
Unfortunately, the loudest voices in this conversation are advocates for free college tuition. That option can be accomplished in one of two ways. If private institutions, many of which have billion-dollar endowments, chose to provide a tuition-free education, it’s their prerogative to spend dollars as they see fit. However, if people want to provide a similar benefit at public universities, the federal government would be the only entity able to administer a free college program.
If we’re contemplating that thought, let’s remember two things. First, there is no mention of education or higher education in the U.S. Constitution. Unfortunately, that hasn’t stopped the federal government from funding and exerting ever more control over K-12 and higher education.
Second, the expansion of federal control across all areas of society has fueled ever-rising costs and resulted in a loss of freedom for institutions and the individual. The track record of federal involvement in education is especially disappointing
Decades ago, the federal government’s interest in universities was limited to research. Then came the GI Bill, student aid and Title IX. The federal government‘s burgeoning role in research, student aid, diversity, health care and efforts to protect against discrimination has spawned an ever-growing bureaucracy of middle managers. These changes have added tremendously to the cost of higher education, reduced the ability of institutions to respond to changing conditions, and worked to homogenize colleges and universities that were once the envy of the world.
Let’s also remember that the one who pays the bill also calls the tune. Colleges and students lose freedom when the federal government intrudes into campus life.
Yes, free college tuition may sound like a dream to some. For most others, it’s a nightmare. Let’s remember, calling something free doesn’t make it free. Nothing in life is free. It’s simply a matter of who pays the costs. Free college tuition plans merely shift the costs of education from one group of taxpayers to all taxpayers. The proposals for free college are poorly targeted, too expensive, deliver too little and take away institutional and individual freedoms. It’s time to realize free college tuition is too expensive for North Carolina and our nation.
[1] The Class of 2015, Economic Policy Institute, available at: http://www.epi.org/publication/the-class-of-2015/#young-workers-are-not-%E2%80%9Criding-out%E2%80%9D-the-recession-by-%E2%80%9Csheltering-in-school
[2] Completing College: A National View of Student Attainment Rates—Fall 2009 Cohort, published by National Student Clearinghouse Research Center, November 2015, Available at: https://nscresearchcenter.org/signaturereport10/
The best investment the American taxpayer ever make was the GI Bill after World War II, not because the returning soldiers deserved this opportunity (which they did ) but the huge return on investment American tax payer received on their investment.
An educated society of teachers, engineers, chemist, architects, doctor and craftsman is far superior to one of jailers, police, homeless and desperate uneducated non taxpaying citizens the conservatives lobby for.
Hey Lon,Try living without jailers and police and see how long you are with us.
The link below will show how wrong headed Art Pope and his fellow rich conservatives are taking American down it’s current course. You will notice Nordic countries that invest in citizens as a resource have very little need for prisons, as Iceland incarcerates just 44 citizens per 100,000 and the USA leads the world with 720 per 100,000.
http://prospect.org/article/six-charts-explain-why-our-prison-system-so-insane
Iceland has 329,000 people,about half the population of Charlotte.93 per cent are white.If the population of the U.S. was 93 per cent white what would the crime rate be.Now I know liberals will say that is racist,but facts are facts.Crime stats in this country are huge in the non white population.Iceland also has about 90,000 guns.How does this fit into a liberals mind that is a perfect place.Apples and oranges,Lonnie.Apples and oranges.
Larry, your right your comment is racist but nothing I don’t expect here. To show you just how racist and how illogical I will point to Brazil (white population of 53%) which has an incarceration rate of 242 per 100,000 to the USA ( white population 77.35% ) incarceration rate 720 per 100,000. What’s different?
NPR says Brazil is one of the most violent countries on earth.In 2012 there were over 56,000 murders in Brazil.The murder rate in the black population was up 40 per cent.I’am sure you would trust NPR since they are as left as you can get.So,I’am racist for stating that the non white populations have more crime.What would you use to show me that’s not true.Sounds like with 56,000 murders in one year,they need to put a heck of a lot more people in prison.You ask what is different.I guess they have a lot of people like you and Obama that just turn violent illegals loose on us instead of sending them back where they came from.I hope this kind of thinking doesn’t come back to bite you or your family.If one of these people kills a family member,at least you won’t be racist.
When taxpayer money is invested in citizens, regardless of race in the form of education, healthcare, skills training, the arts, childcare, infustructure and yes community police, crime declines as does the need for prisons.
Large parts of America are basically failed states because of right wing extremist public policy. White Rural Appalachian counties have murder rates several times higher than New York City or even Chicago. Areas of Chicago have homocide rates higher than third world countries but Greater Chiacgo brings the numbers lower than poor white rural counties of Eastern Kentucky. Conservativism is distructive to a healthy society which literally causes death. Pay citizens a living wage, let citizens pick their political representives in fair elections, without voter suppression. Investing in public education, including very affordable public universities will return dividends to the American Society and taxpayer like we saw with the success of the GIBill. http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1991-06-16/news/1991167035_1_university-of-kentucky-kentucky-mountains-eastern-kentucky
Lonnie,think what you want.The truth is,blacks kill more blacks than any other race.If you don’t know that,then you aren’t living in the real world.I love how you change the subject when I prove you wrong.No more mention of Brazil.You go to Kentucky where the population is so small it doesn’t take many to skew the percentages.Where you get eastern Kentucky is right wing is beyond me.Those people have voted for Democrats for years.That might change since the Democrats have put a lot of them out of work by killing the coal industry.Why don’t you mention the success of Social Security,Medicare,and every other ponzi scheme the Democrats have come up with.All their programs are broke.With a 19 trillion dollar debt,the whole country is broke.
Larry, are you a troll trying to expose true conservativism and Art Pope’s true agenda? Your remarks are from classic Jim Crow Era racism, something one may expect from the KKK.
Those conservative voters in those volient Eastern Kentucky counties would cheer such racist propaganda as they do with Donald Trump’s fear and hate mongering , bigoted and calls for human rights abuse of torture.
Social Security, Medicare, school lunch programs and the small current social safety net work to keep seniors independ, warm and in their own homes. Small rural towns across America survive on an economy dependent on social security, Medicare, SNAP, school lunch, Medicaid and government services. Jobs in hospitals, public schools, power companies, groceries, clinics are paid with the stimulus effect of the above
Here is a clue for the clueless.Social Security and Medicare are both sending out more money than they are taking in.When Obama came in to office the debt was 10.6 trillion.Last week it hit 19 trillion.We are looking at a crash that will make the depression look like a picnic.You Socialists or Progressives think you can just furnish everything for free,so you can buy the votes of people like you.If I have a job the government taxes and takes my money.If I don’t work the government sends me money.Where is the incentive to work.You talk about conservatives in Eastern Kentucky.Most of those people have been on welfare for three generations.Thats why they vote for Democrats,so the checks keep coming.
Civitas Institute Donors,
“America should be known as the country with the best educated population, not the country with the most people in jail.”
Bernie Sanders
Larry,
Social Security can easily be fixed, remove the cap, increase wages to a living wage, increase union membership to bargain for higher wages and give 12 million undocumented working residents, legal status and a path to citizenship.
Educate and train more engineers, architects, and skilled craftsman who will have more earned income.
Pay back money taken from the SS fund to give tax cuts to people like Art Pope.
The education should have started with you and Bernie.Economics 101.At least the old idiot admits he is a Socialist.I saw him tell a young man he would raise his taxes $500 dollars a year but it would save him 5000 dollars a year on his medical insurance.How is anybody stupid enough to believe that math.Somebody has to pay the difference.Old Bernie says he will tax the rich 90 per cent,but he is stupid enough to believe they will stay in this country.What makes you leeches think somebody owes you 90 per cent of their money is amazing to me.
Larry
Estill Cty KY voted 72.32% for Romney in 2012
Harlan Cty Ky voter 62.3% for Republican Tea party Governor Blevins in 2015
Hate is an easy sale, ideas and solution require thinking.
Larry
Those high rates of taxation wouldn’t come until capitalist like Martin Shkreli were making millions per year. How is it conservatives think workers should be able to live on $7.25 per hour but a millionaire can’t live on $250.00 per hour?
Lonnie,I told you why Eastern Kentucky changed to Republicans.These people would rather have a job than welfare.Obama killed the only jobs there.Coal jobs.He gave loan guarantees to the rich people to start solar companies.Almost all of these companies went out of business and our tax money to guarantee these loans is gone.Now,if you won’t to tell me that’s not true,I will post lots of articles to prove it and it will make you look not so bright.So,let’s hear it.
Larry
So now at least you believe violence has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a failed state environment found in pockets of American communities of both black and white citizens. The price of oil today is $28.41 per barrel and the unit price for natural gas is $2.10. Do you suppose lower fuel cost had anything to do with the decline in coal production? President Obama has promised over a billion dollars to reclaim old mines to give work and economic relief to the area KY Republicans are grudgingly accepting. Solar and wind energy are the renewable energies of the future. jobs are created manufacturing, installing and maintaining the alternative energy sources. Conservatives have a difficult time with vision. http://www.kentucky.com/news/state/article58169858.html
Liberals have a hard time not having sense enough to know what happens when you go broke.When you spend trillions on the poor and there are more of them than ever,you would think they would try something different.But no,just keep borrowing money from the Chinese and giving it to people that will vote for you.When you get enough people that understand that this is stupid and you start losing elections,you let millions across the border and give them free everything and you have instant Democrats.When that’s not enough you let thousands of crazy Syrians into the country,sign them up for everything.Instant Democrats.
Larry,
Liberal want to end free loading. Liberals want capitalist to pay full price for labor, pay taxes at the same rate as an engineer making $118,000 per year. Liberals want successful capitalist to pay it forward to educate the next generation of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or their own accountants, engineers, sales force a decade out. Liberals want capitalist to pay living wages or wages determined with union bargaining, pay for ports, roads, coast guard, bridges, police, courts and public schools.
As Brian used to say,incoherent rambling.
Larry
I see since you don’t have facts, logic, justice nor the common good on your side you have decided becoming a writing critic.
Lets review my first comment which you attacked. “The best investment the American taxpayers ever make was the GI Bill after World War II, not because the returning soldiers deserved this opportunity (which they did ) but the huge return on investment American tax payer received on their investment.
An educated society of teachers, engineers, chemist, architects, doctor and craftsman is far superior to one of jailers, police, homeless and desperate uneducated non taxpaying citizens the conservatives lobby for.”
In your own rambling you’ve made a racist attacked on people of color, you’ve attacked Social Security, Medicare, alternative energy and the social safety net but you haven’t explained why we as a country should not pay workers a fair wage they can modestly support their family on or why it’s not in our interest as a society to invest in our citizens with education and skills training?
My dad always told me it was a mistake to argue with stupid people.I’am taking his advice.I lost too many friends that were fighting Socialists to argue with somebody that’s voting for one.
Larry
Define socialist, Public schools, libraries, roads, usps, roads, state universities, extension service, health department, CDC,NASA, Coast Guard, FEMA, ports, courts?
I remind you the Cold War has been over nearly 50 years long before most young voters were born. I also remind you our strongest allies ( Canada, France, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Japan, Findland ) have Democratic Socialism.
Don’t let your ideaogy make you look foolish.
Old Bernie is paying his interns 12 dollars an hour.He is on the campaign trail telling all businesses they should pay 15 dollars an hour.Just like a commie to have a rule for them and a rule for everybody else.
Larry
Bernie is paying $10.10 per hour the amount he and other Liberals are trying to get congress to pass as the minimum wage at this time. His goal is to get the minimum wage to $15.00 per hour as soon as possible. None of the other candidates for president are paying their interns anything.
Read my lips Lonnie.Why is he not setting an example by paying 15 dollars an hour.Because like all liberals,progressives,Socialists,they talk out of both sides of their mouth.They say what people like you want to hear.Like your hero Odumbo told us if you like your Insurance and your Doctor you can keep them.Free health care,housing,food,child care,assistance on heat and free college costs.Of course if you work hard and make one dollar more than some income figure the Democrats come up with,you get none of the free stuff.
Larry
If you as a taxpayer want to see federal tax dollar going to feed young children, provide housing assistance, provide heating oil subsidies or educational grants to low wage families, I suggest you demand major Wall St traded Corporations pay a living wage. Do you really lobby to deny medical treatment for an injured or sick child or adult just because they are poor??.? Is. That really the position of conservatives, ALEC, Civitas Institute and yourself??
As I have said before Lonnie,when you keep doing something for years and it doesn’t work,quit doing it.Are you saying that many trillions of welfare has reduced the number of poor?I can show you plenty of facts that it hasn’t worked and it has bankrupted the country.You want Wall Street companies to pay more.Don’t look now but they are moving out of this country.If that old commie gets elected they will all be gone.Carrier just closed a plant in Indiana.1400 jobs going to Mexico.GMC announced they will make some Cadillacs in China and import them here.Ford is building a 3 Billion dollar plant in Mexico.Where are your Union boys going to get a living wage when all the jobs are gone.Obama has adding thousands of pages of regulations on businesses.These companies are out of here and idiots like Obama and Bernie are the reason.Nobody is going to stay in this country and pay 90 per cent tax.
Larry
America can build high speed rail, rebuild our aging power grid, develop and install alternative clean energy, rebuild American cities to world class standards, reduce class rooms size and make American education world class all using union labor. Those wages and those jobs will ad tax revenue as well paid workers buy homes, go out to dinner, take vacations and pay taxes.
And all this would be free.Why don’t you look up Bernie’s tax plan.Match your income with what his tax rate will be on you,then maybe you want be so crazy about electing that idiot.After you pay taxes you can’t afford going out to dinner or Vacations.
I’ve always had to pay taxes, my children were educated in a public schools, I watched a network of interstate highways being built across America and my tax dollars put a man on the moon. After conservative took control of government we have the great vision of tax cuts for the rich and a prison every 50 miles.
I would have loved to pay your taxes.I bet I paid more in one year than you paid in your life.
What’s the deal with you and prisons?Did you just get out?They need to put you back in,you are a danger to this country.
Larry
Congratulations if you have paid more taxes in one year than I did in my entire working career. I was forunate to work for two major corporations that treated employees fairly and paid a lower middle class wage with good benefits. What you say here is you have never had to attempt to support or educate children on half of a living wage. Clam down and present fact based arguments that support your conservative political public policy if you can find actual facts to do so.
If you make over 55,000 dollars in Denmark your income tax rate would be 60.2 per cent according to CNN MONEY.They also have a 25 per cent VAT or sales tax.All the countries Lonnie thinks are wonderful have tax rates that are about the same.When clueless people realize that is what Bernie and Lonnie want for you,it will be goodbye Commies.That will leave you with about enough to buy gas with.Another thing old man Lonnie and Bernie don’t want to tell you is all these countries are trying to get away from Socialism because they are like us,they are going broke.There is some facts,Jim Crow boy.
Larry
Thank you for this information, Denmark is such a hellhole, how could I have been so misinformed? http://studyindenmark.dk/why-denmark/quality-of-life-1/the-happiest-place-on-earth
Larry
Just look how Denmark treats children and parents.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/jan/01/uk-denmark-children-family-swap
Larry
Look at how the people of Norway suffer under socialism. http://youtu.be/xAjj7LnrTyg
Larry
Would citizens in Denmark be free to spend their $325.00 per month in food stamps as they choose? Is Democratic Socialism much less oppressive than conservative autheorterianism? http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/02/22/brave-republicans-introduce-bill-restricting-what-kind-of-meat-poor-people-can-buy/
It is much more oppressive.
Norway has a 39 per cent income tax and a VAT or sales tax of 25 per cent.I think I can spend my money better than Obama or Norway.I haven’t added over 9 trillion to my debt in 8 years.Now if you think Norway is heaven there are planes going there every day.They would be happy to add another citizen they can take over 60 per cent from.
Larry
Where’s the line of immigrants fleeing the oppressive tax system of the Nordic Counties?
Lonnie,where is the line of immigrants trying to get into countries that take most of your money?
I guess Lonnie is looking for a link that shows how great Marxism,Communism,and Socialism are.Check with a person that has lived under them instead of some dummy in a liberal think tank that has had some stupid Professor tell him how great that garbage is.Check with somebody in Cuba,Russia,Argentina,China ,Vietnam,or many other countries what they think of total government control.Oh,that’s right,if anybody in one of these countries had anything on the internet that was critical of Communism they would be dead.No link for Lonnie to read,not that he would anyway.
Larry
You need to do your home work. What kind of utopia existed in Cuba,Russia,China or Vietnam before Communism? How is today’s Communism in China and Vietnam different form the Capitalist Oligarchy Art Pope is in the process of buying in NC or the Kochs across America?
Democratic Socialism requires the Free Market works in the interest of the all of society, not just the rich and powerful.
Where you been troll?This country became the richest country in the world under Capitalism.All our citizens became better off.When we started to go down the tubes is when the Democrats found out they can buy votes by give away programs.Thats how we became the biggest debtor nation in the history of the world.Since 2008 we have 550,000 new small businesses.The bad news is we had 680,000 small businesses close.Now,I won’t give you the link,you need to learn how to go to the truth instead of leftie web sites.Socialism has never worked anywhere,period.I have said it before,we have spent trillions on the poor and we have more poor than ever.Can you deny that? I know you and you won’t deny it ,you will just ignore it and come back with some crap about the Kochs and Art Pope.If you had spent your life trying to get rich instead of voting for people that promised to steal people’s money and give it to you,you might have gotten rich.
Larry
Your last comets are simply not true, all American citizens did not become better off. We have many unethical corporations that exploit the poor, Pay Day Loan charging extremely high usury fee, main stream banking which exploits low income worked living on the margins with banking fees designed to cause overdrafts that then trigger larger overdraft fees. We have major multinational corporation paying half a wage to workers and sometime cheating them on hours worked. While America is a rich nation the disparity in income between the rich and wage earning Americans is one of the worst in the developed world. For the last 30 years there has been a rigged political system designed to redistribute wealth from the poor and middle class to the very rich. What was the CEO of Blue Cross’s income package 37 million? When you blame Liberals for the nation’s debt did you forget about the Tax cuts for the rich that produced no growth, did you forget about the Conservative failed foreign policy of war in Iraq costing lives and trillions of dollar for the rest of our lives, in an unstable Middle East, Veteran Benefits and pensions? Supporting Walmart with laws allowing low wages and taxpayers supplementing employees of Walmart, Yum Foods and similar low wage business models hurt the more ethical small business model. Democratic Socialism is alive and thriving in Canada, Germany, Norway, The Netherlands and if expanded would boost the standard of living for all American including the very rich as their society would be safer, more well trained police, nurses, teachers, less crime fewer citizens incarcerated, fewer educated people on the street. The Conservative message is if you are poor it’s because you didn’t work hard enough and you and your children deserve to live in high crime neighborhoods with lead poison or coal ash poison water.
That should be fewer uneducated people on the street.
I didn’t know I made any comets.They fly through the sky like your brain.Three times in our history a president has given us a tax cut. John Kennedy,Ronald Reagan,and George W. Bush.All three times we had massive job creations and the government took in a lot more in taxes.This is easy to check out on government records.Here is a clue,it’s not on Huffington Post.If you think government can spend your money better than you can,get on a plane.Can you not see the Democratic felon is killing the Democratic Socialist.Most people in this country are not buying what you and Bernie are selling.
Larry
I’m glad you’re interested in actual facts. Jobs were created under Kennedy when the top tax rate was dropped from 90% but let’s don’t forget the massive infustructure program started under Republican Eisenhower and continuing into the Kennedy Admin. Kennedy like wise started NASA that continued to Today’s landing of Scott Kelly but the fund has been reduced. Conservative vision is limited to tax cuts for the rich, more gun in more places and more religion if it’s evangelical. Bernie does have an uphill trip to winning but did you think he would be winning four states on supper Tuesday? Hillary won the conservative slave states Democrats are unlikely to win this fall any way. http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/jobs_numbers_improve_historica.html
Interesting reading a free person arguing against a slavery advocate. Sorry Lonnie, you and your slavery advocacy lose. I suspect your socialist hell society is fine for everyone except you and your friends in true statist hypocrisy fashion.
Brasil as an example to bolster your argument for a great society? Are you serious? Brasil contains three main ethnicities: white european, african slave descent and native american. (aside: Brasil took in many more slaves from africa than did the American colonies/U.S.) Brasil is an amazing nation with many wonderful people of all ethnicities especially out of the big city centers. But non-whites are systemically, legally excluded from the greater Brasilian economy, which, as Larry stated, has a tremendously-high violent crime rate despite, or because of, strict gun controls. In the U.S., non-“whites” (by whatever arbitrary means defined, could include me) are given legal preferences.
Lonnie asks, do we want less educated people on the streets? Those schooled at today’s universities, especially those in “victim studies” curriculae, can be called schooled but hardly educated.
You arguments have been read and found desperately wanting.
Lonnie holds Norway out as socialist success. Larry has aptly pointed out that the population is homogeneous among other things; apples and oranges. My best friend in college was from and returned to Norway and he gained a notable appreciation of free market entrepreneurship. He loves his country and is a patriot but bemoaned leaving the U.S. because, and I quote, “no matter how hard I try or how well I succeed in my work, I don’t do any better, make anything more, or have anything additional to show for it”. And the influx of Muslim migrants into Scandinavia has women previously secure in Western civilized society scared to death.
Another thing you should consider about Europe; traditionally the “best qualified” people are in public service. They take their position serving their country very seriously. Can you say the same about the U.S.? Do the best of the best, avid tea party American patriots, staff the DMV? Social security offices? Medicaid offices (where a sub-literate, retarded level IQ person decides whether or not you have a medical indication for an ultrasound of your gestating baby?) No, the best Americans start a business. They are directly accountable to their customers and are found fixing your water heater or HVAC. (And they are increasingly expensive due to the mountains of regulations constantly being placed on their professions).
No,Lonnie I am not surprised that Bernie won some states.With half the population getting welfare they want more and old Bernie will steal it from people that work for it and give it to them.I am glad you knew who I was talking about when I said the felon.If you want to talk about NASA let us talk about what Odumbo did to them.He gave a speech while he was running for POTUS at NASA and told the workers they would keep their jobs,then when he won he laid off almost all of them.About all that is left is government workers.Just like all liberals he talks out of both sides of his mouth.I guess the religion you want is Muslim.I know about NASA because I have family that worked there and one of them was a Odumbo supporter.Thank God he was not a blood relative.
Larry and Mike
Lots of issues have been discussed, the original post is about public resource being used to provide higher public education to America’s youth at very affordable tuition or for free to those meeting academic goals. Free or affordable public universities would create a new generation of teachers, engineers, chemist, architects, doctors and craftsman which is far superior to one of jailers, police, homeless and desperate uneducated non taxpaying citizens.
The GI Bill after World War II was the best investment the American taxpayers ever made, not because the returning soldiers deserved this opportunity (which they did ) but the huge return on investment American tax payer received on their investment.
When taxpayer money is invested in citizens, regardless of race in the form of education, healthcare, skills training, the arts, childcare, infrastructure and yes community police, crime declines as does the need for prisons.
Large parts of America are basically failed states because of right wing extremist public policy.
Conservativism is distructive to a healthy society which literally causes death. Pay citizens a living wage, let citizens pick their political representives in fair elections, without voter suppression. Investing in public education, including very affordable public universities and that will return dividends to the American Society and taxpayer like we saw with the success of the GI Bill.
Liberal want to end free loading. Liberals want capitalist to pay full price for labor, pay taxes at the same rate as an engineer making $118,000 per year. Liberals want successful capitalist to pay it forward to educate the next generation of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or their own accountants, engineers, sales force a decade out. Liberals want capitalist to pay living wages or wages determined with union bargaining, pay for ports, roads, coast guard, bridges, police, courts and public schools.
Lonnie,I can’t believe anybody is as clueless as you.I would love to pay taxes at the same rate as an engineer that makes any amount.Go to any CPA and ask them who would pay the most taxes on 118,000.If you are a small business owner you have to pay 15.2 per cent for your S.S. And Medicare.If you have employees you have to pay 7.6 per cent on each one of them.Then there is Odumbo care.Then there is federal and state unemployment tax that you have to pay on yourself and your employees.Now,if your employee gets laid off he gets the money you paid in for him.If for any reason you have to close your business you can never collect unemployment even though you paid into it for years.There is no way that any employee is going to pay as much taxes as an employer.I have said for years if everybody was in business for a year there would be no Democratic Party.
Lonnie,you say large parts of America have failed because of right wing public policy.Name one.Every city and state in this country that is in the worst shape have been run by Democrat mayors,congressmen and most of the voters in that area.Just a few are Detroit,California,Illnois,and you name the large city.Some of these have never had a Republican in charge.Your arguments are so weak I feel sorry for you.
Larry
Keep in mind this discussion is about the merits of public resource being used to provide higher public education to America’s youth at very affordable tuition or for free to those meeting academic goals.
You can bet these top earning CEO making an average of $16 million per year are paying a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than the wage earning engineer making $118,000 per year. http://www.epi.org/publication/top-ceos-make-300-times-more-than-workers-pay-growth-surpasses-market-gains-and-the-rest-of-the-0-1-percent/
Larry
How many of these are Red States? I filtered States with poverty rates under 16%.
50. Mississippi – Median household income: $39,680 Poverty rate: 21.5%
49. West Virginia – Median household income: $41,059 Poverty rate: 18.3%
48. Arkansas – Median household income: $41,262 Poverty rate: 18.9%
47. Alabama – Median household income: $42,830 Poverty rate: 19.3%
46. Kentucky – Median household income: $42,958 Poverty rate: 19.1%
45. Tennessee – Median household income: $44,361 Poverty rate: 18.3%
44. Louisiana – Median household income: $44,555 Poverty rate: 19.8%
43. New Mexico – Median household income: $44,803 Poverty rate: 21.3%
42. South Carolina – Median household income: $45,238 Poverty rate: 18.0%
40. North Carolina – Median household income: $46,556 Poverty rate: 17.2%
39. Florida – Median household income: $47,463 Poverty rate: 16.5%
38. Oklahoma – Median household income: $47,529 Poverty rate: 16.6%
34. Georgia – Median household income: $49,321 Poverty rate: 18.3%
31. Michigan – Median household income: $49,847 Poverty rate: 16.2%
30. Arizona – Median household income: $50,068 Poverty rate: 18.2%
28. Oregon – Median household income: $51,075 Poverty rate: 16.6%
23. Texas – Median household income: $53,035 Poverty rate: 17.2%
9. California – Median household income: $61,933 Poverty rate: 16.4%
http://blogs.voanews.com/all-about-america/2015/09/21/these-are-americas-richest-poorest-states/
Larry
Iowa gets it right on keeping students in high school.
http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2015/06/09/408521333/guess-which-state-has-the-best-high-school-graduation-rate
Why can’t you say I am wrong?You won’t try to say that an engineer making 118,000 pays more in taxes than a small business owner making 118,000 a year like you did before.You won’t do that because I just proved you were lying about that.You also should know that 50per cent of tax payers pay no federal taxes other than FICA taxes,which they will get back if they live long enough.Look up what percentage of the total taxes are paid by the top 10 per cent of wage owners.Come back with that figure off official government records and not some joke web site that lies as much as you do.Your idea of rich states must be how much in debt they are.California and Illinois are the two of the biggest debtor states.They are totally broke.Also been run by Democrats for years.Every time I prove you wrong you drop that and come back with something else that I disprove.I’am getting tired of making you look stupid.
Larry
I’m advocating for organized labor to have a seat at the bargaining table of free market prosperity to determine the fair price of labor. When workers are paid a living wage we will have a growing middle class and a lot more tax paying citizens.
Larry
The small business owners ( plumbers, barbers shop keepers) making $118,000 are not the people cheating society. You know I’ve been addressing a whole different class, Discovery Communications, where CEO David Zaslav earned $156.1 million, Blue Cross CEO Daniel Loepp, CVS Health CEO Larry Merlo, whose $32.4 million, Walmart chief Doug Mcmillan, who made $25.6 million, Chipotle boss Steve Ells, who earned $28.9 million, the Koch Brothers and Art Pope’s of the world.
These top 1 percent pay 47.5 per cent of all taxes.How much do you think they should pay?This should be short and simple enough for even you.
Larry
That’s because they are the only ones with any money. Make the green bastards either pay employees a living wage where the employees make enough to owe taxes or have the greedy Oligarchs pay a 90% tax rate.
Green bastards?Is that the Solar crowd that gave all the money to Odumbo to get elected?He then gave them loan guarantees that they promptly went bankrupt with and stuck those of us that actually pay taxes with millions.Go to US debt clock.org and look at these stats.In 2008 we had over 19 million manufacturing jobs,now we have 12 million.We have 118 million private sector jobs.We have 94 million not in the work force. In 2008 we had 79 million not in the work force.15 million net loss of jobs since Odumbo.Remember when you Democrats were saying Bush had the worst economy since the Depression.What do you call the economy now after 8 years of idiots running the economy.15 million less private sector jobs and 7 million less manufacturing jobs.How does anyone argue with a straight face that the executive action dictator has done a good job?
Larry
What a lucky break you were eager to capitalize on, auto correct is not my friend. Sorry you were not smart enough to know I meant “greedy”.
The word Odumbo translates to ” this person is a racist member of a hate cult”
What kind of garbage are you posting on the economy? Look at normal economic indicators, the DOW, S&P 500, unemployment, GDP.
Here’s my reply without the auto correct error.
That’s because they are the only ones with any money. Make the greedy bastards either pay employees a living wage where the employees make enough to owe taxes or have the greedy Oligarchs pay a 90% tax rate.
No comment on the loss of jobs by Odumbo,huh?When you don’t have an argument you just call someone a racist.The sign of a little mind.
Larry
I enjoy debating with you but just because you post something doesn’t make it true. Here are facts about the extremely sucessful Obama public policy. What would a sucessful president look like to you?
Yes, the percentage of American in the work place is down slightly but only by 2 or 3 percentage points, boomers are retiring, kid 16 and older are staying in school, young women are having children.
Don’t let your racism blind your ability to reason and use logic. Using the word Obumbo makes you look racist, like a right wing cultist and poorly educated.
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/04/obamas-numbers-april-2015-update/
You are right Lonnie,the debt clock is official government stats that come from a bunch of incompetent Democrats that work for Odumbo,so it probably is garbage.
A successful president to me would be one that didn’t take the national debt from 10.6 trillion to 19 trillion.One that didn’t let millions come across our borders to take jobs,fill up our prisons and when they get enough Muslims in this country to try to kill all us infidels.
Larry
Fear is not your friend
Larry
Stay focused, the original article is about public resource being used to provide higher public education to America’s youth at very affordable tuition or for free to those meeting academic goals. Free or affordable public universities would create a new generation of teachers, engineers, chemist, architects, doctors and craftsman which is far superior to one of jailers, police, homeless and desperate uneducated non taxpaying citizens.
The GI Bill after World War II was the best investment the American taxpayers ever made, not because the returning soldiers deserved this opportunity (which they did ) but the huge return on investment American tax payer received on their investment.
When taxpayer money is invested in citizens, regardless of race in the form of education, healthcare, skills training, the arts, childcare, infrastructure and yes community police, crime declines as does the need for prisons.
Pay citizens a living wage, let citizens pick their political representatives in fair elections, without voter suppression. Investing in public education, including very affordable public universities and that will return dividends to the American Society and taxpayer like we saw with the success of the GI Bill.
Liberal want to end free loading. Liberals want successful capitalist to pay it forward to educate the next generation of Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or their own accountants, engineers, sales force a decade out. Liberals want capitalist to pay living wages or wages determined with union bargaining, pay for ports, roads, coast guard, bridges, police, courts and public schools.
Lonnie,have you had a stroke?You just keep sending the same crap over and over and over.
Larry
I’m just trying to stay with the subject of the article which you keep wanting to avoid.
These little comrades can’t get a job now.Where are going to work when I pay for their free education?Your theory is if I chose not to go to college I should have to pay for yours.You comrades do everything possible to tax and regulate businesses out of business and then want higher wages. It won’t work and there dozens of countries that have tried and failed.I can hear it now about the Nordic countries.They will be broke too,they just haven’t been on it long enough.Unions and their crazy entitlements have driven almost all manufacturing jobs out of this country.Thank God,other than government employee unions they are almost gone.Them being almost gone has really hurt the Mafia.I would hate to be a supporter,like you of organized crime.
Larry
Do we hear calls of closing Wall Street because of fraud, corruption or do we just slap them with a fine of a few days of earnings? Why are you and Conservtives holding unions to a different standard?
Is it the conservative position more engineers, architects, biologists, urban planners, and diplomats offer nothing to society but investments in prisons, poorly trained police, and security systems offer a brighter future for America?
Broken record.Who said anything about closing unions.They are closing on their own.The workers are tired of paying those crooked union bosses hundreds of thousands of dollars for nothing. I hate to tell you this but engineers,architects,biologists,urban planners,and diplomats are not in unions.How about staying on the subject.If I don’t go to college,why should I pay for you to go?
You are always wanting a link.Here is one that makes my case better than anything I’ve seen.It shows just what happens when you have bigger and bigger government like the liberals have given us.http://videos2view.net/tax-fraud.htm
Larry
“If I don’t go to college,why should I pay for you to go?”
Someday you will likely come in contact with a policeman and you will want him or her well trained, you children will need well trained teachers. Every citizen needs doctors, judges, attorneys, nurses, engineers and architects.
I worked and paid for my school and so did my daughter.Why should I pay for some lazy snot nose kid to go to college to learn the garbage you learned.They need to go to school to learn how to make a living.You have made it plain we should’nt have police or prisons so why did you use Police as an example?Just as I expected,no comment on the video about crooked,stealing,illegal immigrants or the corrupt IRS shipping billions of some Americans tax dollars to these crooks.Are you a crook or just an apologist for crooks?I need Doctors,nurses,engineers,and all the rest.I don’t need to pay for their college,nor did they need to pay for mine.
Larry
Conservatives, want to eliminate the IRS and oppose real immigration reform. The video shows a real problem which needs to be addressed. My opinion this is an organized crime within the tax preparation business recruiting poorly informed undocumented workers with the promise of a big returns. I do know undocumented workers often over claim dependents.
Why would anyone not want to eliminate the IRS?Oh,I know,so they can’t intimadate conservatives.All taxes could be collected by sales tax with vouchers for the poor.Soon the shoe will be on the other foot and the Republican President could go after Democrats and the corrupt press.But two wrongs don’t make a right.You Libs think the ends justify the means and anything goes as long as you win.Just look at New Hampshire.
Larry
Sales tax is regressive allowing those who benefit most from government to avoid paying taxes on income earned not need for life’s necessities of housing, food, transportation, clothing. How many meals can a greedy CEO making $10,000,000 per year eat? How many nice cars can he or she drive at once, how much vacation time can they do and still function as CEO? That extra income need to be taxed at a much higher rate than a wage earning worker barely meeting the needs of his or her family. Government always need the tax collector but they need to be fair. I think you have been reading right wing hate propaganda. Do you have proof of partisan wrong doing by the IRS, I do know Nixon tried to use the IRS to target opponents but that’s not President Obama’s style.
My personal opinion groups like Civitas Institute should not have tax deductible 501c status.
Have you never heard of Lois Lerner.Took the fifth so many times it got boring.Of course the corrupt MSNBC,ABC,NBC,CBS,and all the rest of your sources never mention her.So,when you get your news you never hear or choose to believe the truth.She would be in prison except the most corrupt Attorney General in history,Eric Holder choose to let her skate.If we get the right President this year;Lois Lerner,Hillary,Obama,and Holder will end up in federal prison.When you are on your communist rants,why do you not mention the richest people in the world?Maybe because they are libs.Bill Gates,Warren Buffet,John Kerry,and many others are given a pass in your rants.We already have the highest corporate taxes in the world.is your plan that all business should be owned by the government?You are the hater here,Lonnie.You hate anybody that has done better than you.I don’t hate people,I hate stupid.As the saying goes,you can fix stupid.You are the poster child for that.
There is proof of the IRS targeting conservatives.Lois Lerner admitted it.You really should watch a real news show.It is amazing how much news you are totally unaware of.Guess that’s why you think like you do.
Larry
Here we have the motor diffe rents between Liberals and conservatives, conservatives need scapegoats to fear and hate. Liberals deal in reality and work fo public policy that in in the he best interest for all citizens. Liberals believe in equal opportunity for all, Liberty for all and justice for all. We don’t hate the wealthy but we do expect they pay employees a living wage and pay for governmental services that allow their success like roads, ports, public school, courts, bridges and functioning infustructure of water and sewer.
Larry
Here we have the main differents between Liberals and conservatives, conservatives need scapegoats to fear and hate. Liberals deal in reality and work for public policy that is in the best interest for all citizens. Liberals believe in equal opportunity for all, Liberty for all and justice for all. We don’t hate the wealthy but we do expect them to pay employees a living wage and pay for governmental services that allow their success like roads, ports, public school, courts, bridges and functioning infustructure of water and sewer.
Larry
“The only lie here is to lie that I think conservatives are telling and saying that somehow another this was a conspiracy against conservatives,” Brazile said. “(The IRS) also investigated liberal groups, groups that have progressive in their name, groups that had Israel in its name. So the IRS was basically looking at everybody because they were trying to figure out where all of this fake, phony, secretive money was flowing in the last election cycle.”
http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/jun/22/donna-brazile/donna-brazile-no-conspiracy-here-irs-targeted-libe/
Donna Brazile article.I almost choked I was laughing so hard.No bias there.Like I told you,Lois Lerner admitted they targeted conservatives.Lonnie,you have to learn things by watching C Span when Lois Lerner was being asked questions,not reading Democrat operatives articles.You need to watch some hard news and get off the computer where at least half of everything on there is garbage.I watched Lois Lerner say they targeted conservatives and then she took the fifth numerous times. No wonder you are a liberal,you believe everything that liberals write or say.I became a conservative by listening to both sides and checking on who was lying.For instance nobody can out lie Hillary Clinton.
Who is it I am supposed to fear and hate?I certainly don’t fear you or any liberal.Like I said I don’t hate people I hate stupid.
You love links.Here is one of the best I have ever seen.Everybody in America needs to see this.
Sorry,hit the button by mistake.Here is link.http://www.staged.com/video?v=Klmb
Larry
You want it both ways, you agree with wage earning workers being exploited by major multinational corporations like Walmart, Yum Foods and Tyson by paying them half of what’s needed to care for their family’s basic needs. Americans needs union representation for workers, universal health care that bypasses the insurance industry, justice reform to address the massive incarceration in America to include better police recruits, training and accountability. America must have a would class public education to include skills and higher education, mostly paid for by taxpayers if in a public university or trade school. America must rebuild our infustructure, power grid, renewable energy, water, sewer treatment, bridge, green ways, and water fronts.
Bernie is the only person with such a vision.
Bernie wants to increase the debt to a 100 trillion.You liberals think you can just spend more than you take in forever.Sooner or later the chickens come home.Bernie is like you,he wants to do all this free stuff with somebody else’s money.You can have a world class education,but what good is it if there are no jobs.We have lost 15 million jobs under Obama.Bernie would send the rest overseas.Can’tfix stupid.You can rant all you want about unions,they have lost half of their jobs in the rust belt in the last few years and they will be totally gone in a few years.Companies can’t pay union wages,healthcare costs,and the highest corporate tax rates in the world and compete with other countries.That is why we have lost 15 million jobs in the last 7 years.Couple this with the Democrats want to bring in as many Latinos and Syrians as they can.Instant Democrats when they put them on free everything.Sooner or later the whole system is going to implode.That is why I am moving out of the country.
https://www.youtube.com/embed/tJnW8HRHLLw?feature=player_embedded
Lonnie you say I have a lot of fear.There is a differance in fear and putting your head in the sand.Watch this short video and give me your comment.
Larry
Thank you for the opportunity to comment on the above video. Such anti Islamic propaganda is counter productive, irresponsible and aligns with the goals of the most violent of Islamic radicals. Imagine at this very moment in more than one place in the world both Christian and Islamic believers are sharing the space of a car, house or fortification in a joint effort to defeat zealots of Islam. The world has 1.6 BILLION citizens of the Islamic faith, defeating this violent cults of Islam requires their full participation as soldiers. Western countries need to condemn Christian zealots wanting to label all Muslims as our enemy. President Obama understands the pig picture in this conflict. I remind you believers of Islam have suffered the greatest number of casualties, just like in the USA right wing Christian extremist have killed more citizens since 9/11 than Muslim extremist. Remember the ISSL has no navy, no air force, no standing military. Why are conservatives so afraid? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/us/tally-of-attacks-in-us-challenges-perceptions-of-top-terror-threat.html?_r=0
Larry
On your rant against me and Bernie, you write about “free stuff” and other rants but I see no conservative solution to ANY problem.
One thing I can absolutely promise you is, the world will change, demographic will change and scapegoating offers no solutions.
I will repeat my above comments.
Why should Walmart, Yum Foods and Tyson be allowed to day workers half of what is needed to care for their family’s basic needs? Americans needs union representation for workers, universal health care that bypasses the insurance industry. Justice reform is needed to address the massive incarceration in America to include better police recruits, training and accountability. America must have a world class public education system to include skills and higher education, mostly paid for by taxpayers if in a public university or trade schools. America must rebuild our infrastructure, power grid, renewable energy, water, sewer treatment, bridge, green ways, and water fronts.
Lonnie,where were these right wing extremists that have killed all these people that you talk abou?.Are you saying that all the Muslim attacks on the video didn’t happen?If you are you are too dumb for words.None of those people you say are not paid enough by Yum ,Tyson ,Walmart or any company has a gun held to their head and forced to work there.No matter how many times you whine about these companies and how great unions are,unions are gone very soon.There was a poll done of Muslims in the U.S. And 25% said they supported ISIS and wanted Sharia law in the U.S.You do the math,25% of 1.6 Billion Muslims is a lot of people crazier than you.The Middle East has a Christian genocide going on right now.Where are Muslims being slaughtered like the Christians are.I can hear it now,do you have a link.It does no good to send you one,you are so brainwashed you wouldn’t believe it if your Mother gave it to you.
Larry
Here’s your link on right wing terrorist.
https://www.splcenter.org/20100126/terror-right
Larry
Is it conservative public policy to drive a wedge between Christians and believers of Islam is our most effective course of action of keeping radical Islam from taking root and spreading? Do conservative believe Diplomacy is for sissies and that we don’t need or want corporation from countries with majority Muslim citizens to help fight ISSL? Do conservatives believe a religous war between 1.6 Billion Muslims and 2.2 Billion Christians will be viewed favorably by humanity and sane citizens? Why are conservative so Damn lazy when it comes to thinking?
How do you have diplomacy with people that have told you in no uncertain terms they want you dead?Name the Muslim country that will let you build a church or have anything of any other religion?Name the Muslim country that will tolerate any other religion.Every country they have gone to has become Muslin only as soon as they have a majority.If you are a woman you are treated like cattle or property.How does that jive with you liberals women’s rights.Why do you think the Syrians are not being taken in by other Muslim countries?It is because they want to spread Islam all over the world.Would you want a country that only had all Baptists or all Methodists?If I had to guess I would think you are atheist,so that might not bother you.
Was 911 a right wing terror plot?The only way Muslims have suffered more casualties is when they kill each other,which is often.These idiots are living in the seventh century.911 killed many more than that stupid crap from the Southern Poverty Law Center.Oklahoma City killed 168 people and the rest of what those idiots cite is mostly some sicko that was caught before he hurt anybody.Add up all the ones on that site and compare that number with the site I sent you.
Larry
I’m not a religious person and I don’t see that much difference between Islam and Christianity, both have really good followers and both have cults. Depending on what they think God is telling them at any given time and who is preaching the most violence at any given period in history determines which is killing the most innocent people in the name of religion. Franklin Graham at the moment is endorsing torture and human rights abuse.
You didn’t answer the questions.
Is it conservative public policy to drive a wedge between Christians and believers of Islam is our most effective course of action of keeping radical Islam from taking root and spreading? Do conservative believe Diplomacy is for sissies and that we don’t need or want corporation from countries with majority Muslim citizens to help fight ISSL? Do conservatives believe a religous war between 1.6 Billion Muslims and 2.2 Billion Christians will be viewed favorably by humanity and sane citizens? Why are conservative so Damn lazy when it comes to thinking?
What are the conservative solutions to avoid genocide and a world wide religious wars?
Larry
Conservatives seldom let ethics or morality get in the way of ideology. Here we have raw conservative ideology, you will be proud of in it’s brutal injustice and unethical behavior.
http://www.thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/davidbadash/republicans_attack_democratic_disabled_vet_running_for_senate_in_mind_numbingly_offensive_tweet
Here’s your sign.
Larry
Where’s this level of depth, vision and reason from Conservatives?
https://www.facebook.com/nprextra/videos/1021081521297046/
Where is the common sense of somebody that thinks you can spend many times more money than you have?Here’s your sign.
Larry
When we go to war do conservative have question of cost? Are conservative concerned about the cost of that “yuge” beautiful wall? What about all of the prisons we build to house those we fail to educate or instill honorable values the Golden Rule? When more citizens have living wages, more citizens will pay taxes and fewer citizens will need taxpayer assistance. Bernie has it right on most things, vision is what this election is about. Conservtive candidates want their voters blinded by fear, bigotry, scapegoats, religion and greed, Democrates offer a vision of a brighter future.
Huge beautiful wall will keep out the illegals and Muslims you love so much.Are you saying people that go to college don’t commit crimes?Answer the question.If I decide to be a welder,carpenter,or whatever,should I have to pay for you to go to college?I know you won’t answer,you never answer because you don’t answer anything.My wife worked for a bank for years.The Latino pickers would send one legal picker in with all the checks to cash the ones for the illegals.These checks were for 1000 to 1500 a week.Thats a living wage,so why doesn’t your lazy Democrats take those jobs instead of laying around making babies?The last 7 years shows the bright future you get with Socialists.94 million out of work,unpayable debt,country overrun with people wanting on the freebie train.Illegals sending most of that money home and not paying any tax on it.Filing taxes and claiming 20 kids and the IRS sending them big checks.That’s a vision alright.What is a Yuge?
Larry
You and fellow conservatives need better sources of information. Some undocumented workers do cross the border and cross 100 miles of dangerous desert for the opportunity to support their family, risking their lives. Many other came as Guest workers to work high end country clubs, poultry plants, Christmas tree farms, picking crops, nursery industry, paving companies, roofing companies, or hotel chains. Sooner or later they fall in love with a local full time resident, have a child and don’t return to their home country. Undocumented workers are more of a story of human reality than a sinister plot. You and fellow conservatives need to be less afraid. “Yuge” is how big Trump want to make that beautiful wall.
Less do it the way you do it and type the same thing every time.If I decide to be a welder,carpenter,or whatever,should I have to pay for you to go to college?
Larry
Yes, because public Vocational schools should teach craftsmanship skill free to students. Society needs professionals, the welder or carpenter will need a doctor, attorney, and the bridge he will be employed to weld together the steel beams and rough iron will need to be designed by engineers and architects.
Typical Commie,wants someone else to pay for their housing,food,healthcare,college.Is there anything you are supposed to take care of yourself?
Larry
There’s a huge contrast between today’s Conservatives and today’s Liberals. I want my neighbors to be liberal, I want the businesses I do business with to have the have liberal ethics of quality work, service and honesty. I want my local political leaders to care about all citizens.
Larry
I want to thank you for so acturately representing the sanest of the Conservative voters. For the most part your name calling and insults have not been manic. Few conservatives could have participated in such a lengthy debate which has been mostly civil.
You think giving free college education to everyone will make society better? No… If anything it will make more people lazy and dependent on the next guy.
It’s bullshit… Earn your shit
Just because they goto a College or University for free, does not mean that there won’t be anyone to be police officers or firefighters because they can still fail in college. For example by your logic we should make people pay for high school because if they goto high school they will go to a good college. See how this does not make any sense.
I have a better idea – let’s kill all the Republicans and take their homes, businesses, and bank accounts and spread it out among the rest of us. (Or just kill all the Republicans just because.)
I think John Kantor needs to have the cops visit this idiot.You could spread all that out and a year later it would be back where it started because Demoturds are too stupid to rin a business.
can somebody please give my a good reason why college should not be free in America and world wide I’m writing a paper about it I kinda need more information.
I have an idea, we have reward systems foR college where the better grades you have the lesser amount a college tuitions costs, but then parents would make the most depressing society in America ever forcing work onto children just so they can get a discount, so scratch that last idea. SO NEVERMIND NO SINGLE PERSON HAS A ANSWER TO THIS UNSOLVABLE QUESTION, WE CAN BICKER AND BICKER ANONYMOUSLY ONLINE FOR OTHERS TO CONTROLL ARE FATE WHEN THE FACTS ARE THAT THIS WONT BE CHANGED EVER…. SO STOP WORRYING AND GET ON WITH YOUR LIFE!!!! AND P.S. BILLY BOB PEOPLE WILL WORK HARDER BECUASE THEY KNOW IF THEY MAKE IT INTO A COLLEGE THEY GET FREE TUITION SO THEY WOULD TRY THIER HARDEST TO GET INTO THE COLLEGE THEY WANT TO GET INTO.
To be honest, I think some things in life aren’t free but if that changes and college is free for a few courses, the country isn’t going to be in so much debt, the reason why people think free college is a bad idea is because the government may shut down. It’s already shut down and we’re fine aren’t we? A few college courses wouldn’t hurt anybody would it? And if you disagree that will give me more information for my counterclaim on my argumentative essay for English. So thanks for your opinion!
Shout out to my Democrats. Biden’s going to Biwin.
I agree with the president